Virginia's newly installed AG Ken Cuccinelli addresses the Virginia 10th Amendment Revolution, 01.18.10. Photo from the Virginia 10th Amendment Center. Red arrow ours.
At the head of the line of states planning to sue the federal government over health reform stands Virginia, where Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli announced Monday that he would file papers as soon as the Presidents "signs it into law." Cuccinelli objects to the mandate that individuals buy health insurance so people with coverage don't end up footing their medical bills for them. Cuccinelli thinks it's unconstitutional for Americans to be told they have to buy something, an argument he's been making for a while now. In January, he told a rally of the Virginia 10th Amendment Revolution:
"What we can do where we live is advocate again to bring back to life the 10th amendment, to bring back to life those boundaries in our Constitutional system that were supposed to be the critical checks in the checks and balances system. Without them, we lose, gradually, our liberty....
"If the federal government can order you to buy anything, with the penalty of going to jail, then you are not a free man or woman in the United States of America."
The Virginia 10th Amendment Revolution is a local manifestation of the national movement known as the tenthers. Tenthers, not all of whom like the name, share an intense devotion to the 10th Amendment of the Constitution, the one that reads: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
The tenther argument against health care is a long one, extending all the way back to whether the government had the right to establish programs Social Security and Medicare. The New York Times spells out much of the counterargument today: that the Supreme Court has generally accorded the federal government broad power to regulate economic activity; that the mandate for buying insurance is framed as a tax, which Congress has the right to levy; and that the federal government pulls the reins on personal freedom when it suits a national purpose, like when it forced hotels and restaurants to serve African Americans with the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
As practiced by the out-there crowd, being a tenther may mean declaring yourself sovereign and immune from federal laws and taxes, issuing your own ID papers and calling your home an embassy.
As practiced in the halls of power, the tenther movement looks like Virginia's Cuccinelli -- and AGs from Utah, Pennsylvania, Alabama, North Dakota, South Dakota, Washington, Florida, Nebraska, South Carolina, Colorado, Idaho, Michigan and Texas -- planning to sue the federal government over health reform. Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty's looking into a suit. Mississippi's Gov. Haley Barbour wants one.
The tenther movement also looks like Cuccinelli suggesting last year that he might not get a Social Security number for his new baby:
"We're gonna have our seventh child on Monday, if he's not born before. And, for the very concerns you state, we're actually considering – as I'm sure many of you here didn't get a Social Security number when you were born, they do it now – we're considering not doing that. And a lot of people are considering that now, because it is being used to track you."
As a candidate, Cuccinelli promised that he would decide for himself which of Virginia's laws pass muster. "I will not defend what I, in my judgment, deem to be an unconstitutional law," he said a debate in April. The AG's mission includes "defending the laws of the Commonwealth when they are challenged on constitutional grounds."
If you call the AG's office to ask about all this, you first get Cuccinelli's director of communication, Brian Gottstein. On Monday, Gottstein referred political questions about his boss to the AG's campaign, which didn't respond to a request for information. Gottstein is himself a veteran of the tenther and Tea Party circuit. The former Libertarian columnist, who joined Cuccinelli's staff in February, was still listed last week as the VP for communications for Tertium Quids, whose president appeared at 10th Amendment rally with Cuccinelli. Gottstein spoke at the Roanoke Independence Day Tea Party last year.
Gottstein wouldn't say whether he himself is or has been a member of the Tea Party. He says he no longer works for Tertium Quids and that the website likely hadn't been updated because he was the one who used to do the updating.
And did he ever. As a writer for the Tertium Quid blog, he attacked global warming as a myth and Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell as perhaps not as big on small-government as he claimed. Now that Gottstein's job includes representing Cuccinelli when he takes the birther line on President Obama's birth certificate and the tenther line on health reform, Gottstein says he can't talk about his own politics anymore. "I don't bring my politics to work with me, and I don't want to highlight them for the media," he says. "It's a distraction to what I'm supposed to be doing in the AG's office....I'm plenty happy with what I've done before. I can't get into politics in my position."
With a boss like his, Gottstein hasn't got to bring his politics to work. Politics are written into the job, and it's the politics of the tenthers.
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Don't forget Idaho! There are a lot of tenthers here too, sad to say!
They only care about your liberty...but I guess they are wrong for that type of logic.
The U.S.Constitution clearly allows the Federal Government to provide for the common good.
Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
" GENERAL WELFARE OF THE UNITED STATES "
TENTHERS ARE TRUMPED BY EIGHTHERS !!!!
Getting so tired of these Treasonist Spooks, when do we get to make citizens arrests for Treason, take them to court and throw them in jail!!
There are crazy, inarticulate, know nothings....everywhere! Incapable of intelligent debate or leadership. Carrying slanderous, lying signs or silly tea-bag hats doesn't make you right on anything. Palin has to be spoon fed sound bites, never debates or gives interviews and has no sound ideas on anything. The Tea Baggers never let anybody else speak who could easily debunk their false claims. They had 8 yrs while the Country crashed and burnt, the Constitution mangled and said nothing while their leaders sent us off a cliff.....now they want them back?
Why? to finish the job on the middle class. These people are not the 2% rich??? So why do they wish so hard for their own castration? Fear of fake monsters, Racism, White Supremists, KKK, John Birchers....all rebuked by Patriots blood. You are not coming back. America won't let you.....get used to losing. Yelling your winning when you always lose....is childlike. You should be happy things are going well again, unlike if you got your leaders in....We would be in a Great Depression, with manufacturing destroyed in America! Great Policy...and your for that? After it's been proven time and time again to not work!!!! And President OBama's policy's have worked and you still want the wrong ones???
TIME TO SNIP THE LITTLE STRINGS ON THE KNOW NOTHING ANTI CONSTITUTION, ANTI JESUS,RACIST JOHN BIRCHER, TREASONIST, SUCCESIONISTS! ASK THEM WHAT KIND OF GOVERNMENT THEY WOULD PUT IN NOW THAT THEY HAVE SHOWN NO PATRIOTISM FOR OURS.
GEORGE WASHINGTON WOULD HAVE THEM IN JAIL BY FORCE OF MILLITIA MEN AT THE POINT OF BAYONNET! THEIR LEADERS HUNG FOR TREASON AND INSURRECTION? READ ABOUT THE WHISKEY REBELLION ETC AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT REAL PATRIOTS AND THE FOUNDING FATHERS DID WITH SUCH SCUM!
Well than healthcare should b free to all american citizens. the end. shut down those crooked isurance companies, taking the american people's money and instead of helping us they give million dollar bonuses and bribe or congress men to be on their side. so yeah, it should b free. paid by our tax dollars. Instead of wasting our tax dollars on BS. they should use it on the people.
The original American Tea Party was the Boston Tea Party which objected to the taxation of the King, " No Taxation, Without Representation " was their motto! But, When the Whiskey Rebellion tried to copy their slogan when George Washington was President, he said " This tax came from Virginia, from Representatives of the Union ! " " It is the Law of the Land "
He promptly gathered a Militia of 1200 men, marched to Pennsyvania and put down with force the Whiskey Rebellion. George Washington was the biggest distiller of whiskey in America when he did this.
So Beck, Pallin, Hannity and all T-Baggers…. you are rebuked by the number one patriot of America…..George Washington….the real hero of the real Revolutionary War.
So you are not Patriots, you do not stand for Democracy ! You are Pony Boys and Girls scared by the lobbyists, scared by Fox News their Propaganda fake news outlet and siding with Anti American, Racist, fear mongering Scum. Stop demeaning yourselves! Stop embarrassing and threatening our Democracy.
Ask yourselves ….. What did Washington do for our Country? Then ask What has Glenn Beck, Pallin , Limpballs or Hannity ever done for America……NOTHING. Beck make 30 million a yr keeping you the sheerly in a frenzy running in circles against their own interests. Don't think, Don't Debate …..Just listen to me and act on it !
He does not tell you what he would cut. He does not tell you what he would have done to get you out of the your recession (not his, he's cleaning up on your hard times), or to stop it from sliding into a Great Depression !! Not a word. And what Palin has said is dead wrong, refuted by every economics expert in the World and Ronal Regan and Richard Nixon ….they are provably wrong….period ! All the other Countries did Stimulus spending to get out of this recession….as we have done for the last 7 recessions!
Pathetic, Anti-American, Anti-Jesus, lying morons….who could never defend their positions in a debate…thats why the never do!
@!$%#tards.
This guy is an embarrassment, but we got what we voted for. I live in Virginia where, if you do not purchase automobile insurance (as mandated by our state government), you have to pay an uninsured motorist fee. And I have to wonder why it's fine to mandate insurance for your car but not your health.
Any Virginians with any ideas on that? Mr. Cuccinelli?
I'm also in VA. This is the first state I've ever lived in where I actually feel ashamed about my elected officials. Next election I'm definitely doing more for their opponents.
I am also a VA resident who is embarrassed now by its elected officials. They make me sick - the republicans that is. But it's our own fault - everyone came out for Obama's election which was great. So where was everyone for the state elections? You can't vote for change thinking one person can do it. That person can lead, but it is our responsibility to remain aware and to elect officials who will also truly lead. I don't know what rock these idiots crawled out from under, but they are an embarrassment to VA and to the human race.
Yeah, try living in Georgia! A LIVING NIGHTMARE!!!
You can't compare a car insurance mandate to health insurance. Driving a car is not an inalienable right and protected by natural law. Your life is. If the mere act of being alive in this country is subject to a mandate to buy a product, we are no more than slaves.
Right on Wineman! We live in a nanny state that wants to take care of us if we only give them the chance. From birth to death, we'll be free of want and need...all they ask is we submit. It doesn't matter how much it costs (in liberty or dollars), as long as we are all in our place. People need to read the Constitution, Federalist Papers, Anti-Federalist papers and become informed. John Adams once said, "facts are stubborn things." The left doesn't want deal with fact, only the idea of progressive utopia. Life isn't fair and utopia will never exist. It all sounds good on paper and to those that get something for free. Instead of reforming health care and pushing the debate to the proper place, the states, we get this monstrosity. Our country is bankrupt...balance the check book!
I personally prefer liberty...the freedom to pass or fail, to succeed or crash and burn. The responsibility and accountability for my life is mine and mine alone.
Wineman et al ...are missing the whole point. It's about letting the rich be unassailable! Have a monopoly without fairtrade laws of the U.S. applying to them....allowing them to fix prices,get your health information (that they don't tell you about) then drop you and continueing to lower quality of care and be as blood thirsty as they want without any laws applying to them. And you morons want to stop lawyers. So... Dodge City, for the rich only, without a marshal is your solution to this problem? Like I said " They have no solutions, no leadership, not even the ability to define a problem"
Just scared little termites running around yelling freedom without even being able to define it or debate it. The founding fathers were able to do both. You fat heads are sheep...easily led by your masters...the too big to challenge corporations who pay off your elected officials, kill you,your wifes and children while suffering no consequence! YOU ARE THE DEFINITION OF SHEEP!
Thomas Jefferson, one of the founders of the United States democratic system, said "I hope we shall crush ... in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country"
ANSWER ONE QUESTION:
WHY IF THE REPUBLICANS KNEW OF THE PROBLEM THAT KILLS 40,000 PEOPLE A YEAR, AND WHO SAY THEY HAVE A SOLUTION…..NEVER DONE ANYTHING FOR 50 YRS?
THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE EVER DONE IS TRY TO KILL HEALTH CARE REFORM AND KILL PEOPLE TO HELP THE RICH MAKE MORE PROFITS AND CONTRIBUTE MORE TO THEM. IF THEY CAN ANSWER FOR THEIR OWN CRIMINALITY ON THIS ISSUE, THEN AND ONLY THEN SHOULD THEY BE LISTENED TO AT ALL! PUNDANTS ARE COMPLICIT WITH THIS BASIC LIE AND CONTINUE TO TRY TO FRAME IT AS A LEGITIMATE DEBATE. CRIMINAL CONSPIRATORS OF THE REPUBLICAN DEATH SQUAD. BECOME AMERICAN, LOVE AMERICA, AND START TELLING THE CLEAR TRUTH THAT IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE. YOU CAN CHARGE A FAKE IRAQ WAR ON A COMMUNIST CREDIT CARD BUT YOU WON'T PAY A TAX TO SAVE LIVES, EVEN WHEN YOU KNOW WE PAY TWICE AS MUCH AS OTHER COUNTRIES WHO INSURE EVERYONE! YOU CAN'T DEBATE THIS SIMPLE TRUTH...SO YOU LIE AND LIE AND CALL NAMES! PATHETIC DAMAGED MINDS AND SOULS = REPUBLICRATS !
YOU ARE NOT FREE! YOU WON'T FIGHT THE REAL ENEMIES BECAUSE YOUR TOO DUMB TO SEE WHO'S HITTING YOU OVER THE HEAD...OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
AND YOU CAN'T WAIT TO GET ANOTHER PASTING.
SACRIFICE YOUR OWN FAMILIES TO THE PROFITERING MAGGOTS.....I'LL PROTECT MINE...AGAINST THEM...AND YOU IF I MUST. THE FRUITS OF MY FIGHTING HELP YOUR FAMILIES GET A FAIR BREAK FROM THE INSURANCE PIRATES. YOUR FIGHTING PUTS MY FAMILY IN JEOPARDY. SO GET READY TO FIGHT FOR YOUR NON FREEDOM, SLAVERY TO THE UNREGULATED MONOPOLY'S, I AND OTHER FREEDOM LAW ABIDING COUNTRYMEN WILL BE AGAINST YOU....TO THE DEATH! .... AS IT ALWAYS WAS!
Just out of curiosity, doesn't the federal government already require American's to have car insurance if they drive? Isn't it illegal to not have car insurance, and aren't there fines if you are caught without it?
C Dubbs
Yes, and the government already forces you to buy health insurance, Medicare, which you buy & pay for every time you earn a legal dollar.
Medicare IS insurance that the government forces us to “buy” via FICA. Even though we may never want to use Medicare - we are still forced to “buy” Medicare via FICA.
IF: any person refuses to pay their share of FICA
THEN: The IRS does, in deed, impose a penalty & interest on the person ... and if the person continues to refuse to pay their share of FICA they are jailed.
C Dubbs:
NO! The federal government does NOT mandate that you purchase car insurance. If you have a car, then your STATE likely requires you to purchase liability insurance. Liability insurance is intended to correct YOUR mistake if you cause an accident in order to make the other party whole. It does NOT require you insure your own property in this manner. If you have no car, you are not required to purchase liability insurance. NO FEDERAL law exists!
That is the essence of the 10th Amendment. We do not need the federal government dictating to us what we can and cannot do. Our local and state governments are there for that purpose. To call "tenthers" a fringe group is ridiculous. Tenth Amendment advocates merely want the federal government to back off and let issues not listed in the Constitution to be handled by the several states. There is no conspiracy. Geezus!
Jeffro B
well in fact, if you let your liability insurance lapse whether or not you own a car, the insurance company is likely to penalize you if you ever do want to get insurance again. So, if it's not the state it's the insurance company. What's the difference?
No...state issue.
If there were a bill mandating that every American buy a gun, and that those without the means to would be subsidized, the GOP would be lining up behind it.
As someone who has worked tirelessly to get sensible gun laws passed and fought against the NRA's initiatives, the writer of this post is right on!!!
Believe it or not, symbolic legislation requiring gun ownership does exist in some towns in the US. The list is in an article found here;http://www.boogieonline.com/revolution/firearms/laws/us/require.html
Kelly
The argument is that driving is a choice, but the mere fact that you are living means that you are now required to have health insurance (which I'm all for btw).
Yes, the choice aspect is part of the difference. The comparison to health insurance would be a good analogy if the car ins. you were required to buy were collision ins., that is, ins. on your own car. But it's liability insurance, insurance to protect others from your being unable to compensate them for damage or injury you cause while driving your car. The requirement to buy health insurance makes me uncomfortable whether it's constitutional or not. But what are we left with if we want universal coverage? Relatively young and healthy people have to be in the risk pool to make it work. And there is too much opposition to more straightforward approaches like like national health insurance or a national health service.
of course, if you get sick and go to the hospital without insurance you are essentially doing to the healthcare system what the driver without liability insurance does to someones car when they crash into it
It is really sad to see this sort of idiocy in Virginia, a state which gave us Thomas Jefferson.
But Jefferson is the anti-christ and a communist to these wingnuts. The Texass school board dropped him from text books and added Phyllis Schlafly. (shaking my head in disgust )
Just so you know, Thomas Jefferson would be appalled at the thought of national healthcare. If he thought it were needed, it would have been included in the Constitution. If he thought it were needed AFTER ratification, he would say that we should follow the rules for amending Constitution and not remove liberties by fiat.
Jeffro B
Hmm. Tell me how people's health care needs were handled back in those days anyway. Do you know? When you say the things you do, just remember that there are some people who actually may know more than you do. You probably would be happier on a forum that doesn't require much thinking - like maybe the Glen Beck show?
Susan:
It was really more of an indication of what the country was like then. Healthcare existed, although there were not any of those "evil corporations" like insurance companies. It was crude, but "healthcare" existed. Doctors actually made house calls! What a concept, yet, not in the Constitution!
The point was more along the lines of the "right" you libs claim is healthcare. I can tell you this, there were needs for food, shelter, clothing, jobs, etc in 1787 when the Constitution was drafted. In the liberal world of today, those are all now considered "rights." So, if there was a need then, why wasn't it included in the Supreme Law of the Land?
I can tell you why! The Founding Fathers believed in the empowerment and accountability of the individual. Each person was responsible for himself (or herself) and his (and her) family. What a concept! The Founding Fathers actually forbid the federal government from providing those things. Personal responsibility as a concept is lost on the bleeding hearts like yourself.
I realize that the Constitution is not taught in the indoctrination of public education anymore, but maybe you should read it. The federal government only has a few enumerated powers. It was designed to be limited because the government closest to us has a better understanding of our needs. The federal government is thousands of miles away from a large part of the US population, yet you believe it has the ability to see the needs of the people? You believe the federal government can make better decisions about the lives of citizens than the citizens themselves?
I do not think so. That is why the Founding Fathers believed in the sovereignty of the states. The several states are closer to us, they have a better understanding of our true needs and wants. Even closer is the local/ city government. Our Founding Fathers understood this, that is why much of the debate at the Constitutional Convention included dialogue that guarded against replacing a tyrant 3,000 miles away with a tyrant on this continent.
So when you "claim" that there are people here who "actually may know more than you do," you might want to do some research and learn from history. When I claim that Jefferson would be APPALLED at his Democratic Party, I mean it. Jefferson himself exclaimed, "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." That is the essence of this healthcare reform. And that is the essence of my statement that you seem to abhor.
As for your asinine "Glenn Beck" comment....LMAO! I think he is a twit. So, nice try. I am a Constitutionalist, not a follower of idiots like Beck. Maybe you should spend some time researching the Constitution and learn something about its history. If you care so deeply about healthcare being a "right," then go about it the right way and get a Constitutional amendment passed. That is the only way it will ever pass Constitutional muster.
But thanks for playing.
jefferson also warned about the rule of the elite & wealthy...so, too franklin and paine...all 3 of their names bandied about by a fascist right-wing aristocracy w/99% of the wealth, most of which was STOLEN by them! when their names are brought up for their humanist charity sides, suddenly they become some kind of devil spawn!...our present constitution does little to protect the common man, but everything to protect corporations....why is this nation so blind to its own self interests? why is greed, repression, so important to the right? even to those on the lower economic tier? whats the mattter w/you people? i put it to you, if you think the wealthy republicans give a tinkers damn about the working man, then you must be insane & therefore ineligible to vote...the def of insanity is to continually try the same thing while expecting differenjt results...
Wayne:
Interesting that you claim "a fascist right-wing aristocracy w/99% of the wealth" when the reality is just the opposite. The richest men in America are the hard core left, see: Bill Gates, Warren Buffett. Both of which earned their money by hard work. I do not hold that against them. If you're jealous of what they have, look to your own "toolbox" of skills and try to replicate it. There is no one holding you back other than the democratic party and the liberal left (and I am not sayin the republicans are much better!).
The fact is, the democrats are the greedy ones. They use unconstitutional government power to take money from citizens and give it to others. They do this, then pat themselves on the back for a job well done, and then glory in the dependent serfs they’ve created. They use their so-called "good deeds" to slap free thinkers around to show how good they are in comparison. They do this to keep you down. They’ve turned free citizens into state-dependent mobs. It sickens me to see this happen. If the democrats actually cared about the poor they would donate to existing charities that provide for them. But they’re too greedy. They won’t do it themselves – they want you to.
So do not cry to me and claim the "compassion" of socialism. It has been proven that it does not work. See the Soviet Union. Look at the healthcare of Canada, France, and the UK. Hell, one of the prime ministers in Canada recently flew to Florida because he needed a medical procedure he could not get in the "compassionate" medical rationing system of Canada. When their own leaders do not believe in it, why do you?
You ask what is wrong with me. I ask, why do you insist on being a sheep and looking for what you can get, rather than earning it your own? Stand on your own two feet and have some human dignity. The Constitution has the same guarantees for all - equal opportunity. It does not guarantee success, just the opportunity to be so.
You need to read the Declaration of Independence and Constitution (as well as other Jeffersonian writings)...he would never, never support national health care. In his day, people paid for doctors out of their own pocket.
These people disgust me. Concessions were made to the health insurance industry and lobbyists and the right wing conservatives who INSISTED that they didn't WANT an efficient well run single payer system, like Medicare (which they wanted likened to "socialized medicine") I personally would have preferred concessions were NOT made, but oh well. Then they spin right around and want to sue BECAUSE concessions were made FOR them so that people would HAVE to BUY insurance, thereby propping up and continuing the greedy wealthy pigs and a for profit mega million industry. SO there you have it - double jeopardy - damned if you do and damned when you don't . That's Republicans for you....
And isn't this the same dude who JUST made the news for his horrific homophobia? : "far-right Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli urged the state’s public colleges and universities to rescind policies that ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation" ???
I would almost think this was some funny joke movie, if it weren't actually true... I seriously CANNOT believe this guy has any credence whatsoever, let ALONE holds a public office and wields authority. Somebody please - pour a beer over his head for me, LOL!
What is going ON? Is this the Fourth Reich in America now?
Make me spew. (makes face of disgust/foul taste in mouth) absolutely unbelievable.
"efficient well run single payer system, like Medicare (which they wanted likened to "socialized medicine")."
Um, Medicare is broke...and a big part of this health care scam was to eliminate waste/fraud IN Medicare. Nothing any government does is "efficient." And it is socialized medicine.
FYI, the federal government does not mandate automobile insurance that is purely a state issue and is done through statutes. That fact is one of the reasons the tenthers belive they have a good argument, the theory being that if the regulation of auto insurance is best left to the states, then so should health insurance. Fundemental difference is that health insurance triggers access to health care which directly impacts the "general welfare" Embarrassing time to be from Virginia.
twist
Their message falls flat when you tell them the government has been mandating we buy health insurance since 1965 - Medicare.
Medicare IS insurance that the government forces us to “buy” via FICA. Even though we may never want to use Medicare - we are still forced to “buy” Medicare via FICA.
IF: any person refuses to pay their share of FICA
THEN: The IRS does, in deed, impose a penalty & interest on the person ... and if the person continues to refuse to pay their share of FICA they are jailed.
Medicare is fundamentally unconstitutional...and so is Social Security, the Dept of Education, the EPA, and so on, and so on. The Founders did not intend small "clauses" like "general welfare" to be a broad brush to allow the federal government to do what they want. The Constitution was designed to LIMIT power, not grant unending, tyrannical power. Go read the document, the Federalist Papers, and Anti-Federalist Papers. Unfortunately, many thought Patrick Henry's outright contempt for the Constitution was crazy...but he his fears have been proven time and again by our corrupt political body.
Wait until the seniors get wind of Medicare being in jeopardy because of this lawsuit, because it would be deemed unconstitutional if this bill is deemed unconstitutional. I'd like to see the Republicans try to win elections after that one.
April
GREAT POST! Wait till those enrolled in Medicare find out that the GOP wants the courts to rule that the govt forcing us to buy health insurance (Medicare) is unconstitutional.
You can add Michigan's AG to the list of those suing the federal government. I don't know if he really cares all that much, but he is running for governor so he's got to make it look like he does.
I just added Michigan.
I find myself repeatedly saddened by our new VA AG (does that make him a vaag?) and Governor.
Anyone with any real constitutional law expertise will tell you that the 10th Amendment issue is a non-starter. The 10th amendment is when the Congress tells the STATES to do something. This tells citizens of the country to do something, it has nothing to do with the 10th amendment. The only ghost of a chance is the 'commerce clause' argument and that's a non-starter too, in all likelihood. The Supreme Court has taken a very broad view of the commerce clause.
What I really hope is that these good Republicans waste hundreds of millions of legal fees and state employees times for pointless court cases. Then when they bring up tort reform and the frivolous malpractice lawsuits, well...if the shoe fits....
Not to mention. There is already legal precedent allowing the government to mandate we buy health insurance, Medicare.
Medicare IS insurance that the government forces us to “buy” via FICA. Even though we may never want to use Medicare - we are still forced to “buy” Medicare via FICA.
IF: any person refuses to pay their share of FICA
THEN: The IRS does, in deed, impose a penalty & interest on the person ... and if the person continues to refuse to pay their share of FICA they are jailed.
For the record, we are not mandated to "buy insurance" with Medicare. That is a tax. It comes out of our paychecks every week, bi-monthly, bi-weekly, or monthly. The government collects that tax money and then disperses it for Medicare recipients.
What the federal government has just passed is an outright enforcement to PURCHASE health insurance. It is not a tax because the government is not collecting it. It is dictating to citizens that they must purchase a product or service. That has NEVER occurred in the history of this nation.
I understand that this may seem like a minor difference, but in terms of taxation and commerce in the eyes of the law, it is HUGE. And that difference makes it unconstitutional. You want to force people to buy health insurance? Get enough votes and construct a new amendment to the Constitution.
Good luck with that.
Uh...Methinks you create a difference without a distinction. Taxation is part of commerce. It comes under the commerce clause and the seminal case on this was also the first. When a state tried to levy a tax on interstate commerce carrying goods on a ferry between two states, the US Supreme Court said that matters concerning interstate commerce, INCLUDING TAXATION OF COMMERCE, belonged to the Federal Government.
As for your argument about being 'mandated' to buy Medicare, that is true. However, you cannot avoid paying the premiums for it. That premium is found in your paycheck as a deduction under 'FISA'. Whether or not you like it, you are compelled to be a part of the risk pool that pays for Medicare, thus it is a forced payment of a premium. You are required to 'buy' the insurance, whether or not you ever complete the forms for using it. And you cannot get out of the premiums. Dick Armey tried and the court slapped him down.
What you seem to have difficulty with is that the Federal Government has such far-reaching powers under the commerce clause. Corporations are individuals, as the wingnut Supreme Court just re-affirmed. The Federal Government mandates them to buy scrubbers for their smokestacks in the interests of the common good under the commerce clause. Explain to me how the Congress can compel those individuals to buy something and not compel you to buy something without violating the Equal Protection clause.
Methinks your argument just went pfft! and you really ought to go to law school before you try to make legal arguments. And you REALLY need to pay more attention than Michelle Bachmann did!
Um...the 10th Amendment has the words "or to the people" right after "states." They are telling both the states and people to buy something. And just because the Supreme Court has taken a broad view, does not mean they are not legislating from the bench and usurping the Constitution. This is the main argument stated by many Founders on their fears about the Constitution, judicial tyranny. History shows politicians do not police themselves and shy away from power...Patrick Henry warned us, but we do not listen.
These are the state's rights folks; the same people who argued that it was unconstitutional for the federal government to compel states to integrate their schools. And we all know how that turned out. Here's hoping that health care reform has the same result.
The utter lack of basic education regarding the US Constitution is annoying as best. Filing under the 10th on grounds that HCR bill is unconstitutional will only lead to more public humiliation for the misguided.
No. The HCR bill is Not Constitutional, nor is Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and a plethora of other federal legislation bills that was been passed and signed by a POTUS.
Yes!! Article 5 Convention!
Keep in mind that these are the same (ilk) people who screamed for a Line Item Veto, and when they finally got one and Bill Clinton was the first President to have it at his disposal they took it to court and had it declared unconstitutional. They have since failed to re-legislate a Line Item Veot under the guidelines which would pass Constitutional muster becasue they want to continue to bury THEIR pork in Bills that they know will be passed out of necessity. ( A Line Item Veto for budgetary items would pass any Court Challenge as long as it can be overturned by Congress the same as any other Veto)
what you all said.
aghhhhh!! the republicans want to immediately repeal this!! why??? it does so much good! i can't think of a single bad thing (that isn't an outright lie!) against the health reform bill! you know, just wait till one of them gets sick and they get kicked off health care, then they'll be on our side.... oh wait, law says thats going to be illegal! even so, that part doesn't come into effect till 2014. But when McCain's cancer comes back (pre-existing!) his ass will be covered by the 2 million he received from health care lobbyists :( ...catch-22 much? people are so misinformed... i bet they don't tell people that on Fox!
seriously, the irony in this debate!! people who are opposing this are extremely old (like most conservatives) or fat white people (like Rush Limbaugh.. haha) or both! shouldn't they be for this? i mean they're about the suffer a heart attack or stroke any second now... they should WANT cheaper health care! and about the elderly... their prescriptions will be cheaper ;) but NOOOO its socialism!!!! give me a break, people... thats the oldest trick in the constitution..
limbaugh can pay for his health care w/his pocket change....his illegal drug use, however, might be another thing. wasn't he busted for making his "illegal-alien" housemaid purchase his drugs for him? typical of the cowardly type he is...lol!!!
How much does this bill cost...that's not bad. Considering we are already bankrupt and beholden to COMMUNIST China...its all bad.
Add Washington State to the list. The AG here joined the law suit yesterday. Our governor and, I predict, most of Washington State residents are NOT pleased. Can we impeach the AG???
Hopefully because of this we'll end up with our public option after all. Better yet would be single payer (medicare for all).
BTW Liz, right on, you nailed it!
Don't remind the rest of the country! I'd rather keep Idaho under the radar so I'm not so embarassed!!!
The difference is that you have the option to pay the fee or not. If you choose not to pay the fee, it would be a bad idea to drive your car. The state is not mandating you own a car, so it does not mandate you have insurance, unless you drive. In fact, the state does not mandate you insure your OWN car if you drive. If you drive, liability insurance protects the guy you hit if you cause the accident, it does not protect your property. You have to purchase additional insurance, collision insurance, if you wish to cover your own car. The point is, you made a choice whether to drive or not. You made a choice whether to make your liability insurance premium. That kind of choice is your freedom in action.
So, as long as we are talking about the state forcing someone to purchase a luxury product (and insurance in any form is a luxury product), what will stop them from forcing you to buy a hybrid car? What will stop them from forcing you to purchase a house in Omaha, Nebraska? What stops them from forcing you to buy anything they desire? When the government crosses that constitutional line, we get chaos. If you think I am being ridiculous, they're now forcing you to buy health insurance. It's not a tax taken out of your check before you see it like FICA and other taxes. You get the money into your account and the federal government is telling you how you may spend your hard earned money. That is a slippery slope that the 10th Amendment is there to prevent. And that 10th Amendment protects your freedom to use your property, i.e. your hard earned income, as you see fit. When property and liberty become separated, tyranny prevails.
i dont knbow what part of the country you live in, but a car is pretty much a necessity everywhere ex cities today. perhaps if public transportation was availible anywhere ex cities, a car might just be a "luxury" as you claim. try lugging 4 bags of groceries up a 4 mile hill, or haul those same bags w/your walker.... so, i return to my arguement re car ins is mandatory...those w/o cars, or pub trans must pay enormous cab fares, or be lucky enough to have friends, family to run them around. due to idiotic pharm regs in ny, i spent 48 dollars in cab fares one day just to get my meds...this when i live on 798/mth. thanks repugnicans for screwing my life up w/your inhuman evil greed, your selfish free capitalism as long as its for them...btw republican solution to unemployment? start a war in a third world country, send all our employable troops there...give them slave wages, so you can line the pockets of the wealthy profiteers. youre so much into free enterprise...make pot legal....ohhhh, but thats different!!!! btw, just so there is no misunderstanding. im 56 yrs old, worked from 14 - 47, im a veteren, paid all my bills until i became disabled, oh and btw, when i worked i worked 16 hr days on an average. i also went 7 yrs w/o a day off...
I see the rationale behind requiring people to buy health insurance. People who don't have health insurance have used the ER for both emergency and non-emergency treatments, passing the costs to the insured like me. This has to stop. People should be responsible for their own health care costs, hence buy your own insurance. If you don't want to obtain health insurance, then promise that you won't be sick.
Seems the republican attorney generals are filing suit against the HCR bill because they will after all get the SCOTUS vote. It flies in the face of precedent and states rights to even consider this of course, but SCOTUS is by and for the FoxNews party, and will hand the ruling to their party.
What flies in the face of state's rights is forcing them to accept a federal mandate on legislation where the federal government has no business. Healthcare belongs to the states, not the feds. That is what the AGs are trying to say.
Federal mandates are not new, and not appreciated by anyone. But health care is a human right and by some way and some how we have to do it together as a nation.
How is healthcare a right when health itself is not? No one has the "right" to good health because it cannot be given. We get sick. A "right" is something that cannot be given by man, only taken away by him.
Look at it through this lens: The right to bear arms is a true right. I have the right to own a gun or I have the right to not own a gun. The choice is mine. Choice is freedom. With this healthcare law, I am not given that choice. I either buy insurance or I go to jail. That is not a right, that is tyranny.
And when does it stop? At what point do we say other luxury items become a "right?" Do I have a "right" to a car? Do I have a "right" to a yacht? Do I have a "right" to someone else's property? Does everyone have a "right" to food, clothing, shelter, or even a job?" If so, why isn't that mandated? All of this leads to more and more government control. Where there is control, there is no freedom. It is outright socialism where the government tells you what you can and cannot do. And this is just the first step.
I say NO to losing my freedom. You can be a slave if you want, but not in my America!
Jeffro, you are absolutely correct. People have forgotten - or have never understood - the limits placed on the federal government were placed there by people who understood history. They knew that a government must be controlled with an iron fist, lest the government control its citizens with one. Allowing the federal government to control our lives - by mandating away our choices - is an erosion of the control we once had over it.