Stephen Lemons of the Phoenix New Times continues terrific reporting of Arizona's new "Papers, please" anti-immigrant bill. Of the nine people who chained themselves to the Arizona Capitol Tuesday, he writes:
State Senator Russell Pearce calls them "anarchists," I call them a group of courageous young Americans.
Pearce, who sponsored the bill, has a record replete with ties to white supremacists. Also, for the record, many real anarchists tend to be very boring because they require consensus before acting. They may be famous for crazy clashes with cops, but seriously, go to an anarchist meeting sometime -- Dullsville.
(H/T @Tiggrr1)
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Oh my gosh! Finally a demonstration completely focused on what is actually wrong and no hate speak!!
Way to go!!!!
This is NOT racist but REALIST If you are doing the right thing NO PROBLEM
Since when has protecting the futures of American children a racist issue. Yes, I understand most of the illegal aliens are brown, but that doesn't change anything about parents looking out across the land and understanding what the invasion has already brought.
How can Democrats cry racism, help destroy living wages, and then look the children in the eyes and say how they don't deserve the same country the talk show host were born into. How self absorbed can one be to be high-fiiving themselves that they called someone a racist, won the argument and gave away what wasn't theirs? How selfish it is to say, "Sorry, kid, I'm keeping mine and since I'm in a position to do so and it will make me look really super cool and liberal, I am giving yours away?
So, let's talk about Mexicans specifically. They come from a land of riches. Instead of reforming their country they come to ours and hurt it? Yes, it is clearly easier to come here. Instead of working to reform the Mexican government, we kowtow to them? What the hell? This isn't West Side Story where we have PR's wanting to become Americans. They are here to take what they can and most have no loyalty to the country. Why are we showing more loyalty to them than our own children and those yet unborn.
Spin it however you'd like, Rachel. It is true that you do have bigots and racists in many, many groups for many, many efforts. In this case, it really is mostly about parents and those hoping to be some day wanting a good life for themselves and for their children.
Politicians just want votes. I thought we were done with letting things get so messed up that we cry 'too big to fail (or address)"? Normally, I'd suggest the PolitcsAction piece listed to the left. In this case, just simply read the 3 lines in blue at http://www.goodfaithclause.com and come back and break down all the players into which definition they fall into. I want to know where categories you put the parents, children, politicians and illegals. Your answers will show where you are.
I actually love the show. It is just that you sometimes need to decide if being left means you sometimes have to look at all of America and just not those who listen to you.
As I understand the bill, it gives the police power to demand proof of citizenship or visa from non-criminals. They can demand this from anyone, given "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal immigrant.
So whom are they going to ask? Someone who looks Canadian or European? Or someone with brown skin or who speaks with a Spanish accent? The point is it encourages police to target Latino people, who may or may not be US citizens. About 30% of Arizona's citizen population count themselves as Hispanic, according to US census estimates. Many are even natural born US citizens, whose families have been living in Arizona for generations.
So you think it's appropriate for a law to target 30% of its US citizen population because of their race, encouraging police to demand "papers please" just because they share a race or language with people who might be illegal immigrants?
It's a bad law.
Miss Wendy: I don't disagree with the Good Faith idea...nor do I disagree with the idea that liberals and progressives sometimes overlook their own latent racism. I certainly did that when I first moved to the South, and there is NOTHING more humbling than having all the liberal credentials in the world and still being brought up short by careless speech to someone of color. I'm very careful about my context and language now.
The real point of argument with Arizona's stupidity in passing "Papers Please" is that it challenges the Federal government's right and responsibility to secure our borders and gives that duty to State officers. It's a Constitutional issue and part of the TeaParty's State's Rights (read Secession here, if you want to) campaign against so-called Big Government. Now, none of their platform hangs together on a logical basis and it includes a good-sized dollop of racism, to be sure...but we'll fight "Papers Please" on the basis of being unconstitutional.
WENDY, most people leave Mexico in fear for their lives. Did you know that in some towns, there are bodies on the street every day? drug cartels, gangs--no police protection? Don't assume you think you know anything about immigration. To quote you: "...let's talk about Mexicans specifically. They come from a land of riches. Instead of reforming their country they come to ours and hurt it? ...They are here to take what they can and most have no loyalty..." I hate to bring this to your attention, Wendy, but this is absolute, unadulterated, racism on your part. Your statements have no basis in fact. And that you try to hide your ignorance behind your battle cry for "those yet unborn" to make you look compassionate--what a farce! Don't try to confuse the issues and change the subject. The obvious fact is that you are a racist.
So, are you against ALL racial profiling???
Here is a bit of racism that I GUARANTEE you won't hear Rachel say a peep about.....
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=18763
...so, is her indignation selective? And if so, isn't that racism?
Wow!
Did you say "invasion" Wendy?
Unbelievable!
Well, as an American Indian-U.S.Army Veteran who's people welcomed the english when they arrived in the lower Chesapeake to be raped, murdered & robbed of everything. I find your use of "invasion" quite interesting.
I defended my country for 6 years to watch it be taken over by conservative racist's hiding behind the so-called protection of liberty of Americans.
As an original American I say if this law is instituted then everyone should need to have their papers.
Just hope you have yours on you when the Gestapo stops you.
You stole half our territory. Do you remember?
Wendy,
I am an avid fan of Rachel but agree with you on this issue.
Does this mean all AZ citizens must carry papers? That's the only way I can see this as fair.
HELP! This is scary because it seems to be becoming an accepted concept to actually "persecute" people based upon a piece of paper! Check out the blogs of the Arizona Republic article "Angst Rises as AZ. Gov. Jan Brewer mulls immigration bill". We need help to battle the FALSEHOODS being spouted about illegal immigrants and their negative effect on jobs, economics, personal safety etc. These lies are fueling the fire of the hate machine at work here in Arizona.
The only problem I have is that illegal issue has been permanently labeled on Mexicans only...We have thousands of European (Irish, Russians, Romanians.etc) undocumented immigrants in this country....visit New York or other bigger cities to find out.....But with blonde hair and blue eyes is a great weapon against any profiling....I bet an undocumented Canadian (same accent as ours) would drive all day in Arizona without an ID yet a Mr. Jose, born and raised in Phoneix has some explanations to do....any doubts?..And thats the problem with this proposed Law..
Absolutely right, Hawaii13! This is all about racism! Why is it that white people have to punish some group of color all the time? The Black community achieved legal equal status (though still not in practice - hatred of Obama by whites is a case in point). Ok. Time to target Mexicans, America! Everyone reading this needs to see the film "One day without a Mexican". It's a sad sad commentary couched in satire. When will we make the immigration process humane and reasonable for Mexicans, as it is for immigrants from most other countries? We've been issuing visas and green cards for people from all over the world for FOREVER, and no one has ever seen the racist opposition that middle America has for the Mexican people! This Arizona action is pure racism. Nothing else.
canadians do not cross the border and drop a baby so they can get free health care and welfare benefits.... that i have to pay for. it's not racism, it's the law. i have many diverse family and friends of all ethnic backgrounds. are laws only for those who are here legally? give me a break.
Wear the Yellow L armband in solidarity with our Latino neighbors!! If Arizonans want to act like Nazi Germany, let's make it look like Nazi Germany.
Oh my god!!! I completely agree! I feel like that where we are headed. The sad part is that this is why we take history in school to avoid repeating it but here we are in 2010 moving towards repeating the past errors of the world. I have hope and faith in our country that they will recognize what a horrible mistake and injustice is being made.
@Wendy: I feel like you have been pulled into a false dichotomy by the voices of power. This is not "us" against "them", with the "them" being immigrants.
If you want to know what has impacted the economy of this country on a level far exceeding anything that immigrants could have done, you need to look to those in power. And by that, I mean the corporations who own our government and our country.
They are the ones who have pushed "free trade" policies that have allowed them to move their companies overseas, to exploit more poor people of color, while leaving the American economy in shambles. They are the ones who fire thousands of workers, and then hand over millions of dollars in bonuses to the sociopaths who make those decisions. Why keep jobs in America, where you have to deal with unions, and healthcare, and decent wages, when you can exploit the workers of developing nations with none of those things. And they have done that in Mexico, by the way...an extra added incentive for people to want to try their luck here, where there is more (perceived) opportunity.
But you see, it's EASY to look at immigrants as the problem, because they are politically powerless. And for our politicians, hands tied by the money given to them by those same corporations, it is MUCH easier to attack immigrants, because the immigrants aren't the ones pulling their strings. They refuse to bite the hand that feeds them, so they go after the little people, who have no recourse to really call them on their bull@!$%#. And because, quite frankly, they are easy to spot. That last part is no accident.
But you could rid this country of EVERY illegal immigrant, and you know what? It wouldn't solve anything. Our economy would still be a mess, our jobs would still be gone, and the corporations would still be lighting their cigars with hundred dollar bills.
Because once again, we are targeting the wrong people. The rich will always benefit from the poor warring against each other. Only when we stand up and realize who the real bastards are, will we ever begin to inch toward true economic justice for ALL Americans.
History will show that it has been courageous youth that speak out have had a major impact on change. The youth played a major role in the civil rights movement. Immigration reform will happen, sooner rather than later. I love it, nonviolence! I hope the youth will get busy and get out the votes. Vote these people out of office and get involve with voting for those who will represent them in Washington.
Not only AZ residents, but any visitors as well.
Seriously very cool. A tremendous demonstration of our Democracy in action - I'm not only extremely proud of what they have done, but proud of how they have done it....more please.
Papers Please is alive and well in Manassas Virginia. In 2005 I was assaulted by Manasass police in a CVS pharmacy because I had asked the reason for his demand for my papers, my id. When I submitted for arrest by placing my hands behind my back the officer then yelled "he is resisting arrest". I was tasered three times, assaulted, maced and incarcerated.
I had told my attorney, a member of the Virginia State Bar, about the CVS store security video and provided an outline of events including identifying the video when I hired him. In court this attorney told me that in Virginia evidence does not matter, implying that the courts were kangaroo courts. I have written letters and been on the Internet for 5 years, since the incident. The authorities who allegedly are supposed to protect us and enforce the laws choose to ignore such issues, covering them up.
I am a Caucasian, welcome to America, in Virginia at least there is a rule of law for one economic class and another for another.
What is going on with Arizona? They also had this crazy guy from the legislature on Anderson Cooper that still doesn't acknowledge that Obama is a US citizen and wants to pass a birther bill. I know a teacher from Arizona and she tells me with all these government cuts that teachers have classrooms on a ratio of 1 teacher per 40 students...People need to grow up and stop being so racists
and why do you think there are 40 students to one teacher? the classrooms are overcrowded with illegal immigrants that our tax money pays for. our own children are being cheated out of a good education because the teachers have to divide their time teaching in two languages. you think that is right? if you don't live in a border state, you don't have a clue.
"WENDY, most people leave Mexico in fear for their lives"
Disingenous crap. They come here for jobs.
It amazes me that this debate is ongoing as the problem worsens. OK, so the odds of deporting a few million ILLEGALS is slim indeed. So it is inevitable that the solution is some sort of amnesty and fast track to citizenship. But what is the wisdom of allowing this migration of undocumented aliens to continue to flow into the country? If we can't find a solution for the millions that are already here, does it make sense to compound the problem by maintaining what amounts to an open border policy?
Its also quite telling that the most staunch bleeding hearts are those people that are far removed from the hotspots. You have no respect or compassion for the AMERICAN land owners in Arizona whose fences and rangeland are destroyed? Whose families live in constant fear of a hungry, desperate, and destitute migrant deciding to make the wrong choice about how to feed himself? You have no concerns about the Arizona state budget, and what it is costing Arizonians in tax revenue, law enforcement, and victims of street crime, WHICH IS RAMPANT.
One thing is for darned sure, the problem has certainly underscored what a scam this bull@!$%# about "homeland security" is. We legals stand for hours getting prodded, probed, photographed, and searched in order to board an aircraft, while any terrorist worth his salt is going to forego the process, and simply stroll across our southern border.
But carry on, I'm sure you all can turn this issue into a "right" vs "left" sideshow that renders a solution nigh on impossible. After all, thats the idea, isn't it?
i totally agree. i love rachel but she does not live in a border state and does NOT understand the problem. i live in california and cannot understand why we must pay taxes to feed clothe, educate and provide free health care for illegal immigrants when this state is broke!! the operative word is ILLEGAL.
i have nothing against legal immigration and am not hardly a bigot as we have both mexican-americans and african-americans in our mostly white family. illegal is illegal!! if i break the law, i go to jail. and since when does our constitution extend to non citizen criminals who have crossed the border illegally? does anyone here think that we would get all these benefits if we illegally crossed any other country's borders?
rachel snickered at the thought that you could tell an illegal alien by how they act or dressed or spoke. believe me, you can tell. they are outright blatant. the arrogance is obvious and it's not hard to tell them for the most part.
our schools are overrun and it's our children who are suffering. when the teacher has to teach in TWO languages, what do you think is going to happen? and the street crime has multiplied. do you think it is a coincidence that 95% of the surnames on the news each night is of mexican decent.
i hope california does the same thing. i wish california would cut off the benefits and all the freebies they receive. maybe they would go home. they have brought crime and disease to my state. we have immigration laws FOR A REASON! why are we supposed to allow them to be broken and then reward them for doing it? if you don't live in a border state, you have no business giving an opinion. sorry rachel but YOU ARE WRONG!
LOL. Law enforcement already kill their own brethren who are minorities (undercover police and others not easily identified as such in a uniform) ... no way they can distinguish between civilians. This will change as soon as a high ranking hispanic judge, plain clothes hispanic cop or hispanic politician is threatened and/or assaulted over this "law".
There is an estimated 12 million free criminals in the United States. AIf each one has one person supporting them, with employment and/or a place to live, there could be at least another 12 million who are aiding and abeting, which is also a crime. The consensus seems to be amnesty, but americans do not get a "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE' card. I also have no problem with profiling, because the politically correct demand body searching infants and 90 year old ladies when the majority of our threats come muslim extremists...... If hispanics have a problem with the law in Arizona, maybe they should stop enabling and protecting the very criminals that Arizona are trying to elilminate. And for the Record, my partner is an immigrant, and he has all the same rights I have, except for the right to vote....... oh, I forgot - he is legal!
It is way worse in Arizona then you think! I went to renew my Nursing License and to my horror discovered that the Arizona Board of Nursing demanded proof of citizenship. They weren't kidding. There was a four page instruction process. I had to go to my personal files, the arhives, and pull out my birth certificate, scan it and sent it the Board before they would issue the renewed license. And I have worked in Arizona for over 20 years for the Federal Governement!
The Republican dominated Arizona legislature is so full of hatred toward minorities that they have nearly bankrupted the State, collapsed the infrastructure, schools and needed social services. They have created an environment where citizens have difficultly earning a living to even pay State taxes to keep the incompetent state lawmakers working at the capital to make up more moronic laws to embarass residents on National News. But we can take comfort that concealed weapons can be carried without a permit. That's the kind of work the Arizona legislature spends their time on.
Also, Russel Pierce is sponsoring a bill to ignore Federal Legislation that would ban horse slaughter, HR 503 The Equine Cruelty Act. He maintains, as a rancher, he knows best what to do with horses than those us that want our pets protected from predators that steal them from the backyards and boarding stables to sell to slaughter profiteers.
Arizona is such a disgrace!
A story on the AZ news Wednesday night was about a Hispanic-looking commercial truck driver detained at one of the highway weigh stations by an immigration officer. He was asked to supply ID. He showed them his driver license and told them his SSI #, but they said that wasn’t good enough. They handcuffed him and took him to “immigration” jail for the next couple of hours; until his wife showed up with his Fresno-issued birth certificate. What did the news relate the “immigration office” said was their probable cause for holding him? They said it was standard operating procedure to detain people if they can’t immediately produce a birth certificate. If that’s true, why weren’t there hundreds of other truck drivers handcuffed and detained that day? Arizona’s SB1070 promotes racial profiling – pure and simple.
This guy was just doing his job and he unjustly got handcuffed and detained. This type of abuse toward law abiding Hispanic-looking citizens is not only perfectly allowable under this new Arizona law, but sought out as a way of resolving illegal immigration. This law even allows any citizen to sue law enforcement if they feel the person or agency is NOT enforcing this law to the “full extent of the law.”
My liberal tongue-in-cheek response, “Why did producing a birth certificate actually work as proof of American citizenship for this young man?” Obama has produced his over and over again, and still the state of Arizona is saying he’s not an American citizen (we just passed another law which will require President Obama to produce his birth certificate to prove he is an American before we will allow his name to appear on our ballet in 2012). Yet, more tongue-in-cheek, I now have the law of Arizona behind me and I can sue the immigration agency for taking actions that were “less than the full extent” they could have taken in accepting proof of this man’s citizenship. My reasoning: accepting a birth certificate as proof of citizenship – really? If it’s not good enough for our President, why should it be good enough for an average citizen?
I am ashamed of my home state for the majority of the individuals they elect and the laws these politicians are passing. Arizona is now being called the Alabama of the 21st Century – not something I find to be a prideful description for my home state – even though I have to admit it may all to well be true.
The original constitution remanded black people to slavery, and deemed black people 2/3 of a person without any rights whats so ever. So when republicans and conservatives say they want their constitution back "What do they really mean?" They want slavery back?
Thanks for spotlighting Arizona on the show tonight as we become more backward and bigoted every day! I live in one of two Democratic strongholds in our state-those being Flagstaff, in northern Arizona, and Tucson. Daily, we observe our lunatic legislature, Republican majority, of course, as they enact horrible legislation. It seems that they are intent on systematically destroying the state as they gut the education budget, the tourism budget, while expanding gun rights ( no background check ! Now , we have this awful immigration bill-where will it end?
In November, when we vote these crazies out, and elect a Democratic governor, that's when!!!!!
As a big fan of the show, I was really disappointed in your coverage of the AZ immigration bill tonight. In a poll yesterday, aproximately 70% of AZ favor this bill, including 51% of registered democrats like like myself. The issue here is not racism, or white supremacy, or the fools on either side of the issue that you had on your show tonight. The issue is that we are being overrun by people who do not respect our laws, the least of which is sneaking across the border. In Arizona, we are having kidnappings, and murders every day of the year. Robbery, forgery, theft, burglary, DUI, hit and run by unlicensed, uninsured drivers, assults, and car theft are all crimes which are running rampant here. About twice a week another drop house is found where 40 or 50 illegals are being held for ransom by smugglers. Three or four times a week, there is another police chase with smugglers running with a truckfull of illegals or drugs up and down our highways. Illegal immigration is destroying Arizona and what are we supposed to do? The fact remains that almost all the illegal aliens in Arizona are Hispanic because we are on the southern border. That does not make all people against illegal immigrants racists any more than it makes all Hispanics illegal. The only way to determine if someone is here illegally, is to ask them for their ID. So, let them ask everybody they contact for the same proof, and nobody should say its discrimination. This law may not be perfect, but at least its trying to address the problem and the problem needs to be addressed right now. Anyway, please take this topic a little more seriously. Your report tonight was so biased, and so unlike your normal reporting. This is a serious problem that needs to be stopped and I'd appreciate your looking into the real problems and not the red herrings when dealing with this in the future. Laura
the crime by illegal aliens is rampant in california, too. even on the central coast. i used to feel safe here but not anymore. like you said, it has nothing to do with racism but people who don't live with it are not going to believe it. they need to walk in our shoes. by not coming thru the legal process, they are allowed to bring diseases and crime totally unchecked. how is that okay in anyone's book? that's why we have immigration laws!! it's easy to judge when you know nothing about what you are talking about.
So let me get this straight? Rep. Brian Bilbray (R) CA wants to have "Fashion Police" now? Real life "Fashion Police". Isn't that growing the government?
Hey AZ take a lesson from Riverside, N.J. They just love the Anti illegal Immigrant policies they put into place last year. They drove out so many people, both legal and illegal. Half of the town businesses have closed down since they lost most of their customers and workers. The housing/apts units are all empty. The tax base is gone and the property values are lower then ever. So by all means try it AZ. Riverside got rid of the immigrants and now have a empty and poor town.
Personally, I'd like to see the Federal Govt. threaten to charge any AZ policeman who follows this law (if passed) w/ a hate crime...or other crimes based on bigotry.
easy for you to say, way up there in seattle! it has nothing to do with bigotry, they broke the law by coming here illegally. they should be arrested and sent back. or do they not jail criminals in seattle? tell you what, we'll send our illegals up there and then you can tell me how you like it.
we have rules and laws about immigration. they don't follow any of them! and they laugh at our government and at people who feel sorry for them and demand their "rights". yes demand! what about my rights and the rights of my family? are they not to be held responsible for breaking the law? think about it.
What is proof of citizenship? I was born in the U.S. and am white so I don't expect any problems myself but do I have 'proof' in my wallet if asked? I don't know if a Drivers License is proof because someone here on a Student or Work Visa can get one and it could remain valid long after the Visa has expired and that person has become illegal (I think).
Rachel Maddow: Regarding Arizona proposed Birther Law. It seems to me that you ought to examine and discuss the U.S. Constitution. Under the Constitution, only the electors are voted on by ballot. Therefore, the eligibility of the President to run for office cannot be questioned by a state? To subject each candidate electoral to ambiguous eligibility requirements would seem to be a an attempt to deprive the voters of their right to vote, much as the old (not so old?) south kept people off the ballot by declaring the primaries a closed event -is that not right or did I miss something?
- What are they going to do with them after they arrest them? I don't think Feds have to take them. So put them all in jail ($40,00 per person per year). Lot of new jails will need to be built. What if they have children/babies who may have been born here (US citizens). They take parent and leave child? How do they know there are no young children somewhere waiting for parent to return after they arrest them. Do they need to increase social services. These are not all from Mexico, so who are they going to return them to? Arizona is not a country so other countries will not need to deal with them on returning their citizens.
They will of course make mistakes. Arrest prople who are US citizens from AZ and other States. Law suits to follow on breaking their constituional rights. Also lawsuits on racial profiling. Courts will be flooded
There will be boycots of businesses/orgainizations who will get pressure from their employees/members/customers.
Finally, all this right wing talk (Fox news kind of stuff) has resulted in action being taken and we will finally get to see the consequeces where up to know it has only sold TV/radio time and got people worked up and raised money for politicians.
- Do kids need papers i
- Do the feds need