Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
This is last night's closing segment -- full transcript posted here shortly. --RM
On the show tonight, we heard from three people whose American military careers are being ended because of Don't Ask, Don't Tell: U.S. Army Captain Jonathan Hopkins, U.S. Military Academy Cadet. Sgt. Katherine Miller and U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach. All of whom are having their careers ended, right now.
The $25 million that you and I, the taxpayers, have spent on Victor Fehrenbach's training as an F-15 fighter pilot is down the tubes.
The decade of investment that you and I paid for that built Jonathan J. Hopkins into a striker brigade combat team commander -- that's down the tubes. That's over.
The $350,000 investment that you and I made in building Cadet-Sergeant Katie Miller into a top-10-at-West-Point, Yale-caliber scholar who could also bench press you, if need be - that's down the tubes. All of that is over.
None of those three men and woman wants it to be over. They want to serve. But as we take our time winding down this policy that everyone says will be ending... as we shamble toward justice (maybe), we as a country are continuing to put the lives of these individuals through the meat grinder, every day.
Col. Fehrenbach has filed his lawsuit today because his legal team thinks his discharge orders are due at any minute. Capt. Hopkins was discharged this week. Cadet-Sergeant Miller's resignation was processed this week on the sole basis of the continued enforcement of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell -- the policy that everyone says it is going to end when they get around to it ...maybe early next year. Hey, what's the rush?
Why are we still kicking people out now, in the meantime, while we are waiting for the views of the Commander-in-Chief and the Defense Secretary and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs-of-Staff to be implemented?
If you are changing the policy soon, why not hold off the ruination of lives under the policy now, in the meantime? Why not do that? I'll tell you why. Because that would take some political capital. That would take some guts.
And liberals, according to this White House, ought to be drug tested if we're expecting to see that from this White House right now. Stop complaining and be happy for what you have.
Lieutenant Dan Choi, Colonel Fehrenbach and Captain Hopkins and Cadet Sergeant Miller are all expendable, because doing what it would take to save them would be hard for the White House. So go ahead and watch their careers destroyed, but stop complaining about it.
I talked at the top of the show tonight with Gail Collins about how one way to motivate your natural base for an election is to make your base afraid of what the other side has to offer. And that is true. That works. That works on both sides. It works for conservatives about liberals and it works for liberals about conservatives.
But one less soul-sucking way to motivate your base and to win an election and to keep winning elections and to, frankly, have history look kindly upon you, is to get your base to cheer for you -- not just to cheer against someone else, but to see you standing up, not just to bad guys with worse ideas than you, but to see you standing up for what is right because you know it is right, because we know you know it's right, even though you also know standing up for it is hard.
That is how you regain the enthusiasm of your base. That is how you win the respect of your base. That is how you win the respect of the country. And admit it: that is how you win your own self-respect, too.
If Don't Ask, Don't Tell is going to end, the president could stop enforcement of the policy pending that change. Why isn't he?
Leave a Comment:
pensword
I am a liberal, and my father, a political conservative. Don't Ask Don't Tell is not about some liberal/conservative chess pieces. It is about freedom, justice, and civil rights. My father, Chief Petty Officer Scott, taught that you were a soldier who followed orders, yes, but you were a soldier in a country of free people. And all of those free people were of value, in spite of, or even because of, their differences. He would never have been able to reconcile Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, with all that he stood for. All people are created equal. The only true application of the idea "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" my father would understand, would have been in his job as a secret documents courier for the Pentagon.
When my family discovered I was a lesbian, a fight ensued behind closed doors, that I overheard. I will always remember that it was my conservative leaning father, who defended me. Whatever else he believed; he believed in equality, and justice, and freedom. What else does a soldier fight for? Whatever other conservative values he may have, he always said I could be whomever, and whatever, I would be. I overheard him defend me to them, that day, with honor and courage.
Never is the time when we should sit down and accept injustice. Abraham Lincoln had the foresight to know that ending slavery would likely mean the end of his life, but he also had the foresight and courage to know, that ending slavery was right.
Now is the time for the President to stand up for the civil rights of gays and lesbians on all levels. Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is just a symptom of a larger societal injustice. Making a stay on DADT firings is by far not in the same league as the brave action taken by Abraham Lincoln, but it would be right.
Gays and lesbians have served with honor and distinction. They have exhibited "leadership and courage." Gays and lesbians have died for our country.
Lt. Col. Victor Fehrenbach said it best, we definitely "need some presidential leadership and courage."
#17 - Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:26 PM CDT
I just sent a version of this post as a letter to the whitehouse. You too, can send a message to the President at the link below.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
And here is the link to the petition, started because of Rachel's show last night, asking the President to end military separations due to DADT now:
http://gayrights.change.org/petitions/view/president_obama_suspend_further_dadt_military_separations_now
That was beautiful. Thanks for sharing. I think the time has come for him to put his money where his mouth was... At least if nothing else, just suspend the dismissals till they can get it pushed through congress.
Im and a conservative father of a lesbian daughter and brother to a gay man. Our family had a similar reaction as yours concerning her and his "coming out" moments. I reacted like your dad. I love my daughter and that trumps everything. I too am a retired military man and my views on this issue have evolved over the many years since I first considered the notion. At first I was vehemently opposed to "gays in the military" as it was reorted at the time. But I evloved. In large part thanks to my daughter and my brother. I started looking at things differently. I went to a gay rodeo (my daughter rides bulls) and there were protestors in front of the arena. I talked to one of the protestors and he turned out to be a veteran and he was protesting "gays in the military. Needless to say I let him have it. My evolution has cntinued and today I would say Im fiscally conservative and socially moderate. Some of my conservative friends might call me socially liberal. The bottom line is I dont see a problem with gays in the military, gay marriage, or gay lifestyles. Im also a Christian, and believe in God and heaven. But I dont want to go to heaven if my daughter and little brother cant go.
Thank you.
Today, August 21, 2010, a pundit on Fox News wondered at “the left” for being surprised that Obama is not Abraham Lincoln. For the record, and as I wrote above about DADT, I do not believe anything “the left” has asked the President to do lately, is anything near what Abraham Lincoln did in ending slavery, not anywhere near to being in the same league, much less the same ballpark. I doubt seriously that ending DADT, or even allowing same sex marriages, or allowing any of the other gay/lesbian rights that are absent, or even allowing a Muslim Center in New York City, would ever result in the President’s assassination. I did not think it was in the same league, but that someone DOES think that it is in the very same ballpark, is horribly frightening. I wonder that maybe that person should be watched, and I don’t mean on Fox.
I don't know anymore Pensword. I've worried about the current president being assassinated since his election. When he got elected I specifically took a week off work, crammed myself onto a greyhound, and rode all the way to DC for his inauguration. I went specifically because I figured there was no way in hell a black man could take the oath for POTUS and not be shot. Sometimes that makes me hopeful, other times the whole "2nd Amendment Remedies" speak terrifies me. I don't know that America wouldn't be willing to go to war over gays. I don't know that America wouldn't be willing to go to war over taxes, or immigration, or a second election of Obama. It just depends what we're defining "America" as. You and I obviously would not, but what about another Timothy McVeigh? It only takes one man to declare a war, one to fight it, and one to declare victory. Don't believe me? Go back and watch the McVeigh tapes. It's eery. And Fox News in general seems to be unabashed in it's attempt to push us further and further apart.
On a lighter note- lol someone at Faux News defended Obama? WEIIIIRD O.O
At no time has Angle or any other tea party candidate promoted violence or 2nd ammendment remedies. This has been misrepresented on MSNBC time after time by hacks like Chirs Matthews and others If you listen to Sharon Angle, she states that she understands why the 2nd ammendment was written, what it means, etc etc, she goes on to say she can also understand why some people (not her but others) are atlking about 2nd ammendment remedies, shes talking about revolution not shooting anyone. And revolution by referendum. The left wing media wants to scare you and Americans into voting for more of the same (dems and repubs) If you are scared of the Tea Party, they have succeeded.
You want to hear the context in which she spoke? Here ya go: http://www.examiner.com/democrat-in-las-vegas/sharron-angle-second-amendment-remedies
She says "...ya know if this congress keeps going the way it's going, people are really looking towards those 2nd amendment remedies..." OMG did I just blow your mind?!?! Ya because, like, I am a drone, that's your implication now isn't it JLeon. You have no evidence for this, you're just assuming it's only MSNBC by which I get my news, 'eh?
What I love most of all "If you are scared of the Tea Party, they have succeeded." Ya, I'll sa
Also, GOTTA LOVE: "At no time has Angle or any other tea party candidate promoted violence or 2nd ammendment remedies." and then saying "...If you listen to Sharon Angle, she states that she understands why the 2nd ammendment was written..." Watch Hamlet much Jleon?
Here's Angle's exact words: (Washington Post)
Mickey, and JLeon, I just don't think supporting my right to marry, or maybe fight for my country, is anywhere near the same, as supporting an end to slavery in the context of the mid-1800's in this country. It shouldn't seem so horrible to anyone. And I know there are conservatives who see it that way too. I just don't see how hard it could be for the president to stay the firing of good soldiers for the short period it would take to find the remedy that has already been promised. Now, to be fair, I did not see this guy on Fox long, I don't know him, nor did I get the full context of his speech. I was very busy. I didn't even catch his name. He could have meant what he said in a way that was more benign than it seemed. If I jumped to conclusions, I'm sorry. But, what he said seems odd, when you remember Lincoln WAS assassinated. He did say Obama WASN'T Lincoln. But, is that to say, if he suddenly becomes Lincoln, he has committed offenses, that warrant an assassins solutions? I could be wrong, it just seemed odd at the time. And there is the possibility I guess, that the guy could have been referring to something else Lincoln did, that didn't lead to the assassin's bullet. But, I will wonder. The guy may now even wish he hadn't said it, if he realizes the implications. He may not have meant to imply that at all. I don't know, like I said, it just seems odd is all. Like I said above, I don't even know what thing the Fox pundit was referring to when he said there was something "the Left" supposedly wanted Obama to do, but Obama refused.
JLeon, I don't like when another's words are twisted either. But I don't believe this was the case with Rachel on Angle. Rachel pointed out that Angle's language might be interpreted by a radical as using 2nd amendment rights to oppose a populus elected congress as well as the "taking out" of Harry Reid; very suggestive. I don't think anyone concluded she wanted them to take Reid out on a date.
Plus, I'm sure Rachel would like to clarify any misinterpretations in an interview with Angle. She always asks, "Second amendment remedies, what does that mean?" If Angle wants to clear up any misinterpretations by radicals, she sure hasn't made any effort.
There are people out there who fantasize about taking on the government and government workers in a more physical way. There are recent real life examples of this. We are fortunate that we have a system of government where the public has direct vocal contribution to public projects. It is when an oppositional radical minority can't get his way and decides that a show of intimidation with use of a weapon is somehow called for, that things are out of line. Everybody has the right to work in their job without fear.
What scares me is this poll I posted earlier that says more Americans support the muslim center near ground zero, than support gay marriage. I've heard that protest in New York has been getting a little nasty.
Thank you, Rachel, for calling for presidential leadership on this issue. Even us amateurs on the left need to stand up and demand action. Contact your members of Congress in both houses and urge their immediate action to repeal DADT, and contact the White House to request an immediate halt to all such dismissals until DADT is no longer the law of the land. This can be done, and done NOW.
My husband is in the US Navy. In fact he is serving overseas for two years while I'm home with four year old triplets. My husband is a staunch conservative, right of right. His opinion on DADT is that for those in the military it really isn't an issue. What I mean is, when you are with your troops, your sexual orientation isn't a big deal. Your ability to work as a team is a big deal. I'm not saying the DADT isn't a political football, it is. But it seems to be used in a random, spurious manner. His direct quote "I don't care if people are gay or straight, just that they can do their job."
Rachel, I totally agree that this....like so many other issues, is a fear based club. A club to whack and scare people.
As an Independent voter, one of the reasons that I voted for President Obama was my belief that he truly represented a chance to strive for integrity and righteousness..... even in USA politics. Isn't it sad that this Administration, too - gives political 'voting season' a higher priority than personal dignity?
That was a DEVASTATING call to action tonight!
Used to be the White House was an important place. These days, it's all happening on the Rachel Maddow show!
I'm a pretty good person, but I'm not sure I'm worthy to shine the shoes of any of the people Rachel profiled tonight. And I'm angry - and I vote - and I also DON'T vote!
Is there some way we can all send messages to the President urging him to act NOW on this matter? We've "lost" three fantastic Americans in the past week to this stupid, insane and immoral rule. Don't Ask Don't Tell must be changed, even if only by presidential order. What happened to the man I believed would keep his word and make real changes? What a disappointment he has been....
You can email the whitehouse, I am.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
just sent my email. balls to the walls mr. president!!!
speaking as a panama & gulf 1 combat vet, DADT is a disgrace to our service members regardless of orientation. this mainly effects medical & intel units which are critical MOS's. no combat vet i know gives a rip whether the translator, nurse, or pilot is gay as long as they get the job done...like anyone else. END DADT NOW!
But if we remove DADT then what scapegoat will I be able to use for my homoerotic fantasies?
OK with my sarcastic comments besides; I have many questions for those who would answer:
1) To Hate- you're opposed to government expansion, but then also claim you're for abortion restrictions? FOR THE RECORD I'm not trying to attack you as a person I just don't get the difference and if you could please explain I'd really appreciate it cause otherwise it seems a contradiction. Also, FTR he's not the only representative of conservative ideology so it's not necessarily fair to put that response on him and him alone. If you're another conservative who has an opinion please feel free to respond. You (the audience) are free to choose the terms. Hope that was clear enough?
2) Why the hell are non-military personnel commenting on this issue? Although, to counterbalance that question, I want to add that I think it's amazingly wonderful that so many people are in favor of gay rights. Seriously, I'm a gay woman and when I hear y'all say this and see that the majority of people support Rachel my heart fills with pride. I can't believe that the majority would be in her favor. My sarcasm came out of bitterness, but your actions have changed me to loving. Seriously, to all of you who have posted in favor of gays, you're the most fing awesome people alive.
3. Why is it that gays serving openly is such an issue to begin with? With all partnership put aside I want a serious answer. I have worked my ass off to get an Associates Degree. For those of you that don't know, I've worked 2-3 jobs at a time while I wasn't in school (skipping 1 semester), while then taking 1 semester of whatever I could afford of school. I'm almost finished with my associates. VERY VERY CLOSE FTR. When I go on to a Bachelor's that's going to be at an ACTUAL University and the military, frankly, seems like the only viable option for someone in my position. I'm too heavy to join now, but I'm hoping soon I can lose the weight enough to where I can join. With that being said I'm also a lesbian. I'm in a pretty stable relationship with another woman and I love her a great deal. You can refer to my other posts for my feelings about her as a person and our relationship. I really, really like her and I really, really don't want to let her go. Seriously, with regards to my current partner, she feels differently than anyone else that I've ever been with. I really hope there's (and scarily enough can see) a future with her. And this is coming from me, a woman who used to be married in the state of Massachusetts. If I marry this woman and join the service...she'll be my rock. I know this really should be issue #4 but...why the hell can't I have her as my lifeline and also protect you as citizens? I can't get my bachelor's without help, I can't afford it without having a high paying job or my parents paying and since my parents abandoned me and I don't have a high paying job nor will I; I have to finish my Bachelor's on my own;why can't the military be an adequate solution for myself? Because I like, for a lack of a better term, pussy instead of penis? Seriously??? Please if you can explain why I shouldn't serve than go forward with it. I'm not trying to exclude you from the debate. I'm just trying to explain that in the decisions I'm making atm it doesn't make sense.
I was referring to the post you made below to Uffy about not favoring federal government expansion. Although I still would disagree with your position, if you're saying that you think abortion rights are a state issue rather than a federal issue it would be a concurrent argument and not a contradiction. You never specified that difference before so I was unaware. And no it wasn't me you had that conversation with about marriage or if you did I don't remember it lol. I believe that the federal government should only issue civil unions and that marriage should stay in the realm of ceremony and be defined by whomever is conducting/participating the ceremony under whatever terms they want. Civil unions only deal with legal benefits and personally I don't understand why the government even ever got involved with marriage because it's religious. Frankly I think the government getting involved violates the first amendment. Also thanks for your insight on the military. I have lots of friends in the service and nobody seems to care except for a small minority. But you can't make everyone happy so it seems to me that if the majority will have no problem then why even care about this issue at all (on behalf of our idiot congressional leaders I mean).
That's a fair assessment. Although remember states have plenty of their own problems and have tons of pointless legislation on hand, too. You are right though that the things impacting people most directly tend to be at the local level and that as an individual your vote carries more weight at the local level than at the federal level because you're competing with a smaller pool. That's why PACsand unions have so much more representation than individuals when it comes to elections- because they can increase their pool and have tons of money to lobby the government. Normally that would be okay, but each one ends up polarizing politicians on issues like say tax cuts for this or subsidies for that, all the while ignoring how it affects everyone else (such as with the deficit or economy). Also, for me personally I don't object to giving more power to the federal government per say I object to giving it power stupidly. My motto is either do it right or don't do it at all. Half assed legislation or band aid legislation ends up costing more money and creating useless bureaucratic red tape that ends up getting nowhere and changing nothing. The way I always like to joke about it is if Eisenhower had built the roads the way our current politicians like to do business you'd literally be filling in the pot holes yourself as you drove cross-country.
To Kathleen:
What had happened to those outstanding members of our armed forces is hard to believe. I hope the president has some "power" to do alter that and do the right thing at last.
He had the power when he met with Lt. Col. Fherenbach face-to-face. Lt. Col. If it happens, Fherenbach's dismissal will personally be on Pres. Obama's head.
The president of the United States has power? . . . are you sure? does he know it? (just being sarcastic)
p.s. Moscarron AL Amateur Left hopefully in SPL semi-pro left soon.
REPEAL DADT, We need some real leadership here; At the very least a moratorium on current cases till the issue is completely resolved. American lives are in danger
Right after I watched this show, I went to my computer and looked up gays in my military ( Canadian). I discovered that the issue was settled in 1992 with a court decision. The fact that the Canadian armed services does not discriminate based on sexual orientation has had zero effect on the performance of our military in the hot spots of the world. It seems that this policy is depriving America of a lot of it's brightest and best.
One of our Prime Ministers once defended his stand on sexual discrimination by saying that the government had no business in the bedrooms of it's citizens. Maybe it's about time that your leaders developed the same attitude.
Excellent show! Prior to ratification of the 14th Amendment, Blacks were effectively prohibited from being president. That has been corrected. How about extending the same correction to homosexuals? We must remind Obama that the hellish "Don't Ask - Don't Tell" prohibits an openly gay or lesbian from ever being president because the president, as commander in chief, is effectively a member of the armed forces and, thus, cannot be a known or revealed homosexual.
Good point.
Close, but the President is still a Civilian, which is a checks-and-balance measure towards the military so that the citizens are ultimately in power and not the military. One of these days our President will realize that he controls the Pentagon and not the other way around.
Rachel..last night,8-11-10, best show yet. iv'e been watching your show since it came on and you keep getting beter. I thought how you tied the three stories of D.A.D.T. to the Gibbs whining about the profesional left was brilliant. Hopefully the administration was winceing with each story.They had better wake up and remember what they were sent there to do. Keep up the good work.....jb.
My prediction is Obama will have no choice but to appear on Rachel's show and try to explain his interesting positions on so many issues.
It's fun to hemorrhage for a little while, I guess. But then you REALLY need to do something about it!
The military needs to spend more time addressing heterosexual sexual assault problems rather than chasing after a few gays who aren't bothering anyone.
Other nations have allowed gays in the military for years with no discrimination, whether it is Canada, Israel, or many European nations. Either they are creating militaries that will be so filled with "the gay" that they will crumble when they face their first combat, or we are simply a bigoted, backwards nation. After watching the Israelis in action, I'm going with number two.
Here's the truth about sexual politics in the military...
http://www.reviewatlas.com/highlight/x839828193/Looking-at-the-WikiLeaks-Shuffle
RACHEL, you are DIRECT, PASSIONATE, and a clear voice for truth.
Keep on speaking up!
Bravo Rachel.
Liberal politicians are rarely truly liberal. They are moderate, and they are cowards. They have a perpetual problem of wanting everyone to like them. Newsflash: claiming the label of Liberal or Democrat gains you the immediate and permanent disdain of 40% of the country. So get over it and do what you were elected to DO!
I was in the Navy in the 60's. One of my shipmates did something that another sailor thought might be a homosexual act. And, of course it was reported up the chain. The ship's captain was quick to isolate the 'offending' sailor and classify the matter as Top Secret. This meant that we could not even talk about the issue anywhere on the ship.
We made fun of the suspect sailor. For the rest of the cruise, he had no friends and nobody would associate with him on liberty in foreign ports of call.
I'm sorry to say that I participated in this.
Since then I've earned a BS in Biology and learned the genetic reason (it's not a choice) for homosexuality.
I can't think of the incident without feeling profoundly guilty and sorry for my actions.
DADT must go away. And we must, individually, and as a nation learn to accept and respect everybody as they are and not try to remake them to be as we would like them to be.
Good for you Mel, I was also raised homophopic. I know better know and I feel that I am a better human being now after leaving all that BS behind.
Thanks for that!
Fantastic job, Rachel. I think it is vitally important we put faces and names to the men and women affected by DADT. Perhaps that will get people to see them as people not as numbers or anonymous people they know nothing about. The folks you had on your show are exactly the types of men and women we need. They are brave, talented and dedicated to serving. To allow them to be kicked out of serving because of who they are is just disgusting and I pray that this horrendous policy ends very, very soon. Thanks again for being an important voice!
Last night's show moved me to start a petition to get President Obama to suspend DADT while the repeal works it's way through the Pentagon process and then heads for Congress: http://gayrights.change.org/petitions/view/president_obama_suspend_further_dadt_military_separations_now
I hope someone in Washington,in the white house, is watching your show!!! I am a 78 yr. old "professional left" woman who is mad as ------- and I don't want to take it anymore. We sent him to the white house to clean up our country and just maybe our political system and he has turned into Mr. Milktoast !! In trying to be bipartisan, he has squandered his political advantage and the bills that have gotten through have been watered down next to being useless. Our country is going full speed in reverse and I am so terribly afraid for my children and my grand children.He should watch your show !!!
I may not be left but does it really matter. We all do what we think is right and find out politics is just a game to use and abuse the regular people. I'm not rich but I work hard and try my best. We all need non professional politicians in office to stand for us all. It's better to learn something new than to fail in something old.
I just did. Thanks for the link.
What is the difference between being ignored by a friend or a foe?
"Change will not wait for some other people or some other time"
I once heard a leader say that.......
energy
public option
DADT
saving banks, stalling people
ALL failures- Should I run out and get them votes???