(Andrew Dallos photo.)
Whatever else happens with Don't Ask, Don't Tell -- whether the Obama administration lets the permanent injunction stand or appeals the ruling -- the policy has had 17 years to work its corrosion on our military in particular and our national psyche as a whole.
Tonight on the show, we'll hear from two gay members of the military who've been serving their country under DADT. You have to remember what it's like to be a teenager in a country that treats you as less-than, one of them tells us:
Lately we've had a rash of gay bashing, gay suicides, and I look at these kids and think about if I was in their shoes when I was 15, 16, 17, 18 years old.
It does make a difference that the government has a policy that says you are not good enough to serve in the U.S. military.
You can't say DADT leads directly to gay kids killing themselves, this officer cautions. But you can try to make life, and the armed forces, better. These are profound interviews, about a profound story, from troops who know they're putting their careers on the line for talking to us. Be there at 9 p.m. Eastern.
Leave a Comment:
Looking forward to hearing from these active service personnel -- their story has been largely untold, for obvious reasons.
What happened to the DoJ announcement regarding the DADT injunction that Kerry Elveld was told to "watch for" this morning? Nothing?
I wish I believed -- for even a moment -- that Obama's DoJ was going to let this stand, as they should.
Awesome coverage of the Chilean rescues. But: was your show even on last night? Seems to have entirely pre-empted out West, yet clips exist (Angle/DADT) that I think we never saw. How is it they were shown elsewhere?
I believe the live TRMS broadcast @ 9PM eastern was shown but the TRMS rebroadcast @ 12AM eastern was preempted by the Chilean mine rescue.
(I will take this moment to say I really miss having the TRMS rebroadcast on @ 11PM eastern.)
Can't wait to download the podcast in the morning. This is what makes TRMS such incredible watching.
As with Integration, inter-racial marriage and other prohibitions whose life has been too long, this to shall pass. The military will find a thousand reasons to say it is too soon, to disruptive in the middle of the wars, too complicated to change now. So those men and women you have been sleeping next to and fighting next to and showering next to with no problem for the last 17 years will now become an problem because the law is repealed. Did Blacks get whiter after integration of the armed forces, is that why it is OK today and Colin Powell can be a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs? Did allow differing races to marry result in an end to the Vietnam war? Just trying to understand the convoluted logic behind this. Once you have to do something (like integrate the armed forces) somehow you figure out a way to do it
Of course, it the change can't come now, then when? Secretary Gates complains that ending DADT abruptly will have major consequences--sort of the point of ending it--and will require preparation--which seems like BS as gay and straight troops have always served side-by-side in the military and, really, how much preparation is needed to stop doing something? Gates is sounding more like a proponent of DADT than the opponent he is supposed to be.
God bless them, and God bless you. That's all I can say because I'm crying already and of course, I haven't even seen it yet.
I'm really excited for this interview. Thanks so much for doing this!
So much news about DADT from 1993 until now. Nothing is ever mentioned about the thousands of personnel discharged prior to DADT. I enlisted in 1980 and on the enlistment papers were questions about "homosexual conduct" - answering yes to any of them was grounds to not accept you or discharge you later for false enlistment.
Probably that's because before DADT the military policy on gay personnel was openly anti. Dog bites man. DADT was sold as a softening of that and turned out to be (surprise) a complete sham. Man bites dog.
Perhaps I over reacted to your facebook post, but when you say that troops are putting their career at risk on your show, it alarms me. I hope that you have the journalistic integrity not to show their faces, and to disguise their voices in order to offer them maximum protection. If not, that would make you and your producers, no better than those who are kicking them out. I hope that the following facebook posting on your page there was in error:
The Rachel Maddow Show Gay officers risk their careers to tell us their stories. You'll want to be there for this.
Well as it happened, the interviews were conducted in shadow but their voices weren't altered.
I don't think it's down to the producers whether or not they should allow someone to risk his career. They allowed Dan Choi.
If a competent adult wants to speak up for their own human rights, they are probably going to risk something -- it doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. And it certainly doesn't mean that TRMS should turn them away when they are the ones best able to tell the story.
It was well done. It was moving, informative and (as usual) not at all stupid or emotionally manipulative.
Bravo guys.
DADT is going away, Obama is not abandoning the LGBT folks (me). He knows and has said, it needs to be overturned by Congress.
I hope he does not stir the pot, though. The court is one way to accomplish it without overreaching (temporary) by Executive, which would be the outcry. Yeah, we know... activist judiciary... there is always an opposing viewpoint to the court's ruling.
Come on Congress, my questionnaire had NO MENTION of DADT for lame duck session.
It is clearly not on the radar screen, but allowing discrimination and third party outing is not a good thing when we have 2 wars (that we acknowledge) going on.
The right will never be happy with any outcome other than DADT remaining as the law of the land. So screw 'em (I think I missed my calling as a diplomat).
The President has often said he wants to end DADT. I know that ending it through legislation is his preferred method, but I would hope he can be practical enough to accept victory even if it comes from another front. What's more important, Mr President? Having your way or getting what (you say) you want?
Yes, I think it is clear that trying to "compromise" is not solving the problem, just soothing toward the people that think of showers immediately. NOT accurate, think, people... the soldiers told you... they had issues that would have been handled differently if they were able to disclose their family.
Surely people are not so stuck in the mud that they do not see the loss of these folks is DETRIMENTAL to the unit and the country. They need to get over it. Stop focusing on the tree and look at the forest. They said the same stuff with reacial integration. Do races not work together in the military today? Yeah, there is still those racists there, but it is not a policy.
I hope that the President will say I will sign this executive order repealing DADT and implement the policy that fraternization will stay in effect, whether it is straight or gay. Now, Mr. President, do it.
The idea that these brave men and women would put their lives on the line for a country that treats them like second class citizens is unbelievable. My husband served in the AF and he said most people knew who some of the gay service members were and it did'nt matter. When you go to War you have to worry about the enemy. They should'nt be subjected to the constant stress of fighting to keep the essence of who they are and who they love secret for fear of losing their career and livelihood. The enemy within needs to yeild and stop this insanity. Thank you for your hearts and bravery. I'm writing the WH now.
DADT law is telling us "gays" that we cannot fight for our country because we are gay. That's like telling them oh your UN-American because you are a homo. This law should be abolished asap. We all have a right to fight for our country and defending our people. If your going into the military you are going to fight for your country not hook up with people. This law should be taken care of, I believe this is UN-constitutional, to tell gays and lesbians that they cant full fill their dreams because of their sexual orientation. We are American and want to defend our people and do what is right. Abolish the law and let gays be open to who and what they are. It shouldn't matter what your sexual orientation is your human and you are an American..
If overturning DADT is within the power of President Obama to do, then he should do it, period. The Republican Party has done everything in their power to stop anything this President has tried to do whether it was job creation, health care reform, Wall Street Reform, and the Bush Tax Cuts. I don't understand why he bothers to try for partisonship - it's not going to happen EVER while he is in office. He should just start doing things like Bush did and do what he wants and screw what congress thinks or wants. Trying as hard as he may, nothing he tries to do with them will ever pass - even things they agreed with. Mid term elections usually have low turn outs but this year people had better get off their asses and vote to keep these nut jobs from getting into office. I really enjoyed watching Christine O'Donnell squirm tonight at U of D.
Obama says "The sky is blue, and there are fish in the sea." Republicans respond "NO, this can't be true, it's coming from Obama."
Unfortunately no matter what Obama says. Republicans just want to see him fail, that is their goal. It is not to help the USA.
Sad really..
It isn't just the message that DADT sends to kids, it's the toxic debate that happens around gay issues. Gay kids hear all the anti-gay stuff as if it is being directed at them personally. As we grow older, gay adults learn to compartmentalize in order to function if not completely recoiling from the gay rights movement.
Just so folks know though, there hasn't been an increase in suicides involving LGBT youth. The only increase has been in coverage.
I have one disagreement with this troop, and it was something he said in the second interview, "Once you open up Pandora's box, you can't but the gays back into it." This is the pathetic reality that we live in, in California. We had our right to get married, and then it was voted away.
The christianist corporations that facilitated proposition 8 remain whole and in business. If I were him... This country is worth it. It doesn't deserve the gays. Let it become the tacky motels that line i95 from Deleware to West Palm Beach. AmeriKa deserves to become a republican, blackhole, bigot, hick-wasteland flyover dump.
And then the constitutionality of that ballot initiative was challenged in court and was overturned. That part is kind of important.
Rachel, thank you for this. Those who oppose this issue know that when human faces (literally or figuratively) are presented and their very human stories are told the bigotry and prejudice propagated upon gays and lesbians loses all power. This interview speaks truth to power. Brava!
We've all been waiting for Obama to do the grown-up thing - he ain't got the gonads for it!
So how about a "Spartacus" moment? Get about 50,000 gays and their supporters, in the military, to declare "I am gay" - all at once - same minute, same day.
Force the utter morons in the US government to either fire them all, or do the right thing. Put up, or, effin' shut up.
Anyone think all the politicians doing squat about DADT will rush to fill the gap with their own kids?
I think you are absolutely right. America's military is strictly volunteer and if EVERY gay and lesbian in the military came out all at once, they would have to put up or shut up. I think the biggest hypocrite who is thinking about running for the Presidency in 2012, Mitt Romney, doesn't have any of his sons in the military and probably won't but yet he feels we "need to finish what we start". Does John McCain think there were no gays serving while he was serving in Vietnam? Mr. flip-flopper needs to get with the program or leave office. Of course there was no big deal made about all the American-Vietnamese children born because the straight men couldn't keep it in their pants. I don't know any of my friends who go after "straight" men as perspective partners. We all may look but knowing they are straight, what's the point? The gay men and women serving in our military have more backbone then they are given credit for and they aren't soliciting for sex.