(Perfect chairs in the Bahamas, for the perfect heterosexual couple.)
A new U.N. resolution condemns the arbitrary execution of whole classes of humanity, from street kids to indigenous groups. It was to have included sexual minorities, but a bunch of nations balked at protection for LGBTs. The U.N. General Assembly then approved an amendment that removed them from from the list.
The vote was 79-70. Here's the list of countries that wanted to reserve the right to kill the gay:
Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belize, Benin, Botswana, Brunei Dar-Sala, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, China, Comoros, Congo, Cote d'Ivoire, Cuba, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Democratic Republic of Congo, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Haiti, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mali, Morocco, Mozambique, Myanmar, Namibia, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Suriname, Swaziland, Syrian Arab Republic, Tajikistan, Tunisia, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Republic of Tanzania, Uzbekistan, Viet Nam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe
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Because being gay is a sin and sinners should be killed. Which might explain why many of the countries listed are countries our soldiers have fought and died in. #Wasitreallyforfreedom?
Judging a person is a sin; being gay is not a sin you closeted homophobe.. bend over bitch!
And you're perfect?
On, nevermind. I probably shouldn't feed the trolls.
sarcasm missed.
*facepalm*
Apologies. I fail... I suppose I've spent too much time debating this matter lately with people who say things like this and genuinely believe it.
@Mickey Mouser? What about YOUR life...did you fight in any war? anywhere with the troups..I would guess not.
@ Mickey Mouser- Seriously, Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
folks -- read more carefully. He's mocking those who would consider such a thing.
@MickeyMouser's a friendly.
No, actually it sounds like he's spouting the same kind of rhetoric that the Westboro Baptist Church spouts. I don't doubt this person is a troll, but I think that those of you who are seeing some form of sarcasm in the remark are simply too appalled that someone could actually believe that sort of thing that you are assuming it must be tongue-in-cheek.
Sorry Mickey Mouser, I'm so used to the ignorant making and actually believing such nonsense I failed to see the sarcasm ;)
Mickymouser, you are not a Christian. Even if you believe being a homosexual is a sin you nor any other human has the right to sit in that kind of judgement. There are going to be a lot of you so called Christians not making it through the eye of the needle.
"Sinners should be killed"? Where does this come from exactly?
You obviously have not killed anyone so you couldn't possibly understand how it feels. If you have killed another and you can say this then you could use our compassion and understanding of what kind of reality you are living within so we can help.
If your response is a genuine cry for help, reach out, we can help. If you are skeptical we understand and you have to remember, the first fear to deal with is the willingness of letting go of fear.
Warmly,
g
p.s.-just saw the others post about your sarcasm, missed it though initially. Then I saw your hashtag. Peace and Piece
@Lillian- that's because you're fairly new to TRMS blog and haven't seen Mickey's other posts. Even TRMS staff member Laura Conway (above, notice the peacock) agrees that he is not a troll.
Wow, you're trash? Sinners should be murdered? So isn't murder sinning? Dumbass.
Hey, MM, looks like you may need to make your point more gently for some who obviously missed the sarcasm in your post.
I love this little debate... Poe's Law at it's finest.
Sarcasm. Check.
Whoa Mickey my friend - you have caused quite the stir! All these people think you are quite the hwun dan! Really, folks, Mickey fights for the side of good! Fights, perhaps, with a heavy sword of irony and a piercing spear of sarcasm, but for good, dong ma?
I think it is really sarcasm. He/she does have this on there #"Wasitreallyforfreedom?"
Gee, I thought it was up to God to pass judgment, not idiots. And Jesus taught love and acceptance.
Thou shalt not kill! (wasn't that written somewhere by an omnipotent being that rules over those that worry about sin.) Another one I remember is "judge not or ye shall be judged". Are these writings like amendments on the constitution or something of that nature that can be changed at the whim of humanity. , "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone", another gem of a civilized society.
I suppose that those spewing hate are not believers in these everlasting brilliant precepts. One need not be religious to gather understanding from them. I'm sure someone will find a passage to override the Word and basic message.
How safe will our Troops feel when (note I do not say if, I have faith) DADT is repealed if they are serving in these countries?
Woa so ugh yeah...sarcasm missed indeed...ugh but this is mostly my fault. Upon second examination this was totally not the venue to bleed sarcasm.
The point I was trying to get at snidely is that we've had people dying to rid many of these very same countries of oppression and violence. And what do they use that freedom and sacrifice for? To implement more oppression and violence. It's disgusting. It also strikes me as bitterly ironic that many of the very same countries that have committed genocide are listed here- Rwanda, Myanmar, Sudan, Congo....*shudders*
I am also highly disturbed by people's reactions. Not being angry at me- if you took what I said as being literal then I totally understand why what I just said would be beyond grotesque. I'm disturbed because I made that comment assuming it was so egregious that I thought you'd have to assume I was being sarcastic....the fact that someone could say "I've been debating people who actually think this way"....shows what I know about the world...ungh...
Actually you know what? Could you just go ahead and remove my comment all together. I feel really bad that I offended so many people. I didn't mean to, but it was just in really wicked poor taste. Just take it down.
What does DADT have to do with how safe 'our troops' feel?! Have you served? (and not at a desk!)
I have served in 3, yes three, wars-in active combat zones with various GLBT service members. We all made it home eventually; maybe not in one piece, but we made it home eventually.
How does DADT actually, rationally and logistically affect YOU or your safety?
One would think that it would give people pause .... unfortunately, most will miss the sarcasm and the point.
Civil rights are rights for all that declare that we are in deed a civil people.
I got Mickey's sarcasm. But then I'm around enough to know something about her. It's easy to forget that although there's a core group of regulars, there's a larger mass of lurkers who haven't gotten a feel for the regulars' individual brands of weird. It's a good, if unpleasant, object lesson. Kind of like the time when Harold Lloyd very painfully learned that prop bombs also go bang.
I think there's a lot of mis-reading happening tonight. Mickey - don't be too hard on yourself. I got what you were saying right away, and even though it was deeply sardonic I didn't find it inappropriately so.
@augustusann - i think what animaltalker meant was if we lift DADT and we have openly LGBT service members being stationed in countries where it is legal to kill them based on their sexual identity/gender presentation - how does that affect them. I don;t think it was a "reppealing DADT will jeopardize the safety of our troops" remark. a second reading of the comment might be warranted.
Mickey Mouser says sinners should be killed. But to sin is a religious concept. Jesus was religious and talked about sinners. He said that everyone was a sinner and needed to acknowledge it. According to Mickey Mouser, that would mean that everyone should be killed. According to Mickey Mouser, he should be a good soldier and begin with himself since Jesus says he is a sinner. I think Mickey Mouser lacks logic....as well as compassion.....as well as any real belief in Jesus. Mickey Mouser sounds more like a tool. A very confused tool.
While most of those countries listed were places I'd never want to travel to for vacation or otherwise, and are generally considered underdeveloped, dictatorial, and of course their own citizens wanna flee to America; a few are vacation destinations, i.e. Belize, Bahamas, St.Lucia... It is these countries that should now be boycotted by our GLBT community. Deny them of your expendible income, and GO OUT OF YOUR WAY to partronize those countries, organizations, businesses etc that openly declare their support to our community! Otherwise, don't complain.
Oh, MM, I feel your pain. Sarcasm is a lost art. As my dead Slovak grandmother whom I did not have the privilege of meeting would say, "Oy, yoy, yoy, yoy, yoy." Allegedly.
To those who jumped on MM's case: Rozveseliť!
It doesn't matter mg- two different people even took me off their friends list for that comment which means I crossed the line bad. Sarcasm is one thing, but being a complete and total jerk is another.
A sign of the times, maybe?
Mickey, I've been away, but I wanted to comment, albeit very late, with my support.
I'm surprised Bahamas is on the list. This may hurt them financially (or not) since it is a tourist destination.
I'm not, unfortunately. The more I read and learn about the people I share this planet with, the sadder I get.
There may actually be financial (or similar) reasons for them voting the way they did. I would not be surprised it some of the more powerful nations on that list were handing out incentives to get smaller nations to vote in their favour. Similar things have happened when it comes to voting on whaling bans.
Either way, there's a whole lot of people out there living still living in the Dark Ages. Being LGBT isn't a sin, girls should be allowed to go to school, and people should be allowed to worship whatever they want (including not at all) without persecution. Don't force me to pray and I won't make you read The God Delusion.
I read a local newspaper while in the Bahamas a few years ago. There was a story about two girls had been suspended from school for wearing "uni-sex" shoes. Scary @!$%# I tell you.
I'm floored to see South Africa on the list. They have full marriage equality for gays. Now suddenly they want to be able to murder them? What happened?
I saw the two chairs and thought: 'Oh, god, it's the two bathtubs writ slightly differently'. It is remarkable how much prejudice lies just below the surface in many people's hearts.
The Bahamas was not present during the vote so we are just listed because we didn't vote however any gay person that have visited the Bahamas can write great stories of the way they were treated. Even if some may say we hate Gays here in the Bahamas that is not the case, the Bahamas is a very old fashion Christian nation that is stuck in their old think but we are becoming more modern and accepting of the way the world is changing.
We have LGBT guest all year round and have a huge LGBT event next year in the Bahamas.
@ Brother Man NYC... I feel the same way, especially with the emergence of misguided Tea Party rhetoric nowadays. I wish more people would tune in to Rachel's show instead of Fox Noise. Perhaps then America would have a fighting chance for a return to dignified sanity.
Ah. Now another group of Americans has another reason not to trust the UN. The UN has so much going for it in theory, but now LGBTs can join Jewish groups and other supporters of Israel in not trusting its motives. I wish it weren't true, but the UN's biases are not always aligned with fairness.
The same principle could be applied to the U.S. Congress, most state legislatures, The Supreme Court...should I go on?
The vote was 79/70. How many countries are in the world? 192*. 43 countries didn't even bother voting on this. It's not so much the UN people shouldn't trust; it's more the apathetic members.
*193 with Taiwan, which is not a UN member
Huh? I hope you don't think every UN condemnation against Israel is unjustified. The South African judge who wrote one of the latest reports the Israeli government didn't like is actually Jewish ...
Or do you refer to some resolutions passed or introduced by similar coalitions of countries?
Of course I don't think every UN condemnation against Israel is unjustified. I do think Israel is out of bounds sometimes. However, the UN spends more time blasting Israel than any other country, as if A) it wasn't a democracy and B) as if it wasn't in a constant battle for its security and survival.
But I don't mean to distract from this discussion. One could debate Israel's missteps and the UN's apparent preoccupation with condemning Israel for days.
And whatever you think about Israel, at least gays and lesbians openly serve in its military.
Excuse me, but Israel also constantly wages war against the people it steals its land from, and tramples all over their basic, human rights. They commit more atrocities and crimes against humanity than most of the muslim countries that we rail against, and the UN has not gone far enough to condemn them.
Excuse me Johnny but I guess you were holding one of your knives when you slapped your forehead. are we talking about the land they took from the nations that attacked them on their high Holy day? There was no Palestine nation before the creation of Israel. They were given dry arid land and have thrived. If I read my history right, this land was theirs thousands of years ago. It was not Islam that built Jerusalem, it was the Jews long before Islam was even a concept. Wonder how you would react to some fanatical idiots lobbing shells into your home or the school where you kids where studying?
We need a list of the countries that abstained and were absent so we can pressure those countries for not adding their votes that could have produced the opposite result.
It's attached to the 79-70 hyperlink. Here http://www.iglhrc.org/cgi-bin/iowa/article/pressroom/pressrelease/1257.html scroll to the bottom.
I glad that my country Mauritania is not on the list. LBGT are people too.
Now how is it that South Africa can/want to kill gay citizens but allows same sex marriage! I think they need to get their ducks in a row.
Yep, I was surprised. Plus, their post-apartheid constitution is suppose to be the modern model for protecting human/civil rights.
The current South African government probably doesn't like all parts of their constitution. I guess "it's just a goddamned piece of paper" for them ...
Where was the U.S.A. veto of this resolution? Shame on us.
Opposed to the amendment to remove sexual orientation from the resolution on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions (70):
Andorra, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bhutan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Guatemala, Hungary, Iceland, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico, Micronesia (FS), Monaco, Montenegro, Nepal, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Romania, Samoa, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Timor-Leste, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela
We were on the right side of this sh*tty deal for a change.
The US only has veto power in the Security Council. This was vote was in the General Assembly.
This was a UN General Assembly resolution. No country has veto power in the GA. The US has veto power in the Security Counsel only.
Bahamas, Belize, China, Egypt, Russian Federation, UAE, South Africa?
And who's to say what sin is or who should suffer by whose hand? I'm no theologian but to assume the authority of god is to take god in vain, which is also a sin and all sins are equal in the eyes of god, even if the punishment varies.
Moving on, those of us who are rational aren't interested in what may be sin according to the dictates of those who believe it. You know, start with an irrational premise and you get an irrational result. We like common sense, equity, and believe in basic humanity for all persons. Jesus might agree. Were he real...
@ Mickey mouser!You typify the normal consent of the religious ignorant! If you equate the right to kill someone for being gay as a penalty for sin, I would like for you to step to the head of the line! No man is without sin, and I know you are from being without it! I love the way you holly rollers like to use the rules when they suit you yet you don't think they apply to you. Well I hope one day I see you in hell!
consider reading Mickey Mouser's message a second time, only this time listen for the sarcasm. He's on our side. Maybe take a pass on the condemnation-to-hell approach to communication?
John, you misunderstood MickeyMouser. He or she is one of the sanest and most thoughtful people on this forum, and was just being sarcastic. Sometimes when a person is so frustrated by events to a point where often words fail, sarcasm is the result.
I'm guilty of this myself at times. Trust me.
To Mickey Mouser: How delightfully Christian of you to wish death upon people. I know this will mean nothing to you because you are obviously ignorant on a level that is beyond comprehension, but it makes me sad that we are in the same genus, let alone the same species. Comments like this break my heart, and people like you make me fight that much harder for truth and understanding amongst people, in opposition to people that speak malignly of things they could never comprehend. You make me physically and emotionally ill.
To Rachel, thank you for exposing this to people. Keep up the good work.
First Mickey was being sarcastic, it was satire.
Second, although Maddow is super awesome (and the boss), the credit for this exposure goes to Laura Conway of TRMS staff.
south africa? you sure about that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_South_Africa
South Africa cares more for their economic and political interests.
sadly, Belize is on the list... teh gay is illegal here... one man even sought asylum in the US due to persecution here:
http://www.paulweiss.com/paul-weiss-wins-immigration-asylum-for-gay-man-from-belize-05-19-2010/
Come on! I think Egypt is in the closet on this one.
This is just appalling. If the Obama administration doesn't speak up against this, we should bombard them with emails and calls. Amb. Susan Rice should be speaking out against this loudly.
Look through the entire thread you will see there was a list of states that condemned the amendment and the US was among those signing that condemnation
The US hasn't/doesn't do much (if anything) about genocide around the globe, why would they do anything about the global LGBT community? Heck, they can't get their own ideas of how to treat the LGBT community in their own country sorted out.
It never occurred to me that being openly gay might one day land me in a concentration camp, but now I'm starting to wonder.
Also, not one member of the press asked State about this at the morning briefing. NOT ONE. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/2010/11/151758.htm I know NK dominated the discussion, but jesus you'd think at least one person would come up with a question. I guess the Advocate doesn't bother getting credentials for State DPBs.
TRMS, please cover this on air sometime this week, if only to make them cover it.
South Africa, really? I mean we joke about South Africans being racist and bigoted but I sort of believed the government stood for equality. Next trinations I will most definitely cheer for Australia to pwn them (of course I want NZ to beat them both)
I wonder how many Gay Cruises stop at Ocho Rios, Jamaica each year?
Disgusting, all the Caribbean Islands which rely on cruise tourism but want the power to mass murder their visitors. Thanks for the news, Dr. Maddow and staff.
None. Jamaica will not allow gay cruises to dock in Jamaican ports.
@Mickey Mouser - Go join the Westboro Baptist Church. I hear they spout the kind of ignorance and tinfoil-hat-wearing philosophies that you seem to hold so dear.
He was being sarcastic. Read it again as satire and you'll get it.
WELL, the Bahama's is on the list and Atlantis's 20th anniversary cruise is making that their first stop! I may have to boycott and stay aboard the ship. Won't spend $ in a place where they have such a problem! Will also let the management at Atlantis Events (the parent compay of the gay cruise events) know too.
Atlantis stopped there one other time in 2002, and it was awful. Stay on the ship.
Just to be clear, it is my understanding that the amendment as passed replaced the words "sexual orientation" with the broader phrase "discriminatory reasons on any basis."
It's not like the UN passed a resolution saying "Go ahead, kill the gays we're fine with it."
The language is unfortunate and a step backwards, but that's what they could get passed in this ever changing environment. Let there be no doubt the UN system is broken, but lets dial down the hype. "...allows gays to be executed without cause" is probably a an extreme interpretation of what was passed. Let's look at the at the issue as it really stands and without all of the implied Carmina Burana music in the background of this article from the newcivilrightsmovement.com people.
But my understanding is that sexual orientation had been included for ten years, and this was a deliberate effort to change it, and take out what had already been achieved. Why?
To Mickey Mouser and other "religious" zealots: What happened to the "Love thy neighbor as thyself"? Or the golden rule? Do you honestly believe that if Jesus himself came back tomorrow that he would pick and chose whom to love? I think not. Shame on the UN, shame on the USA for not vetoing this resolution, and shame on those of you who do not treat everyone with decency and respect.
I've had to tell a few people this: It was brilliant sarcasm, perhaps too dry for most people.
@TheAubs, yes, apparently MM's sarcasm was way too dry for some.
WOW, Mickey Mouser, now you are a "religious zealot"! Who knew?
I'm jealous.
Although I've already heard variations on this theme for the past 52 years of my fabulous gay life, I'm... speechless.
Exaclty why I won't be visiting any of those poor @ss countries....they deserve to wallow in their own filth!
Classy. Fight homophobia with ethnocentrism!
Oh, we're supposed to respect those who wish to execute us, all for the sake of "diversity"? I don't think so.
It is amazing to me that in this progressive world that people are still hunted and murdered based on genetic anomalies. Homosexual individuals did not choose the anomaly anymore than a person chooses their skin color, however it is their genetic creators that wants to murder them for being the HUMAN they created. If more people looked at the source instead of the anomaly, then maybe there would be less senseless murder. LGBT's are people that just want to live their lives with the same rights as the rest of society. It is truly sickening that those that claim to be religious feel justified in murdering innocents because it makes them more comfortable living their lives even though MURDER is against just about every know religion. I cross my fingers that at some point the blind of the world will see that just because some may have different preferences than they, that they are just as kind, caring, intelligent, capable, wonderful, incredible HUMAN BEINGS as everyone else.
I've never thought of my gay and lesbian cousins as anomalies, just three people I grew up with and loved as I loved their brothers and sisters (And when three of 7 children are homosexual how anomalous is that?) Putting that aside I would be appalled to lose my remaining cousin to some backward government's idea of justice.
Didn't Fidel Castro recently declare his regret over the way he/Cuba treated homosexuals in the 1960s? I didn't think they would be on this list after that.