Not a good idea to punk your own country. For 30 years.

Hm; thirty years ago, Reagan took power. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

Yup. Reagan lead to Mubarak stepping down. Gotta love the ghost of Reagan, always fixing the worlds problems

After the well-deserved euphoria, there still are no jobs; still a security force and police that are reviled; a puppet parliament; great corruption; customs officials demanding baksheesh; an abyss between the very rich and poor. And if the current members of police/security/government are all thrown out of their jobs, greater unemployment. The lack of money, jobs, threat of autocracy---perhaps all good reasons to migrate to France and Italy.

Wow. I don't have anything else to say except wow. What an amazing turn of events.

Grammar FAIL

Spelling FAIL, really. You know, Firefox has an instant spell-check that underlines misspelled words in red. That, and this forum also has a spell-check. Unless you're dealing with homophones, you're covered twice that way.

oh c'mon don't be dicks.

Pretty sure if I tried to use an Arabic or Portuguese language spell-check on a website, I'd be "SPELLING FAIL" as well; OR, say if I was so excited that a really cool historical event had just happened in a very complicated part of the world.

Really? You negate one of the most exciting days in history for those who love freedom, democracy and peace, for a typo? Get your priorities straight!

I certainly hope you are correct, Mr. Todd.

Democracy will never bow to the will of Chuck Todd. Good thing, too.

As if it's Chuck's will Cynth...pffft

Big Ditto!

Likewise...love the reports from Richard Engel, such terrific reporting and a big plus that he speaks Arabic! Thanks to him and Rachel!

Wish I could be watching the live coverage...drat the cubicle farm! Relying on RM's, et als tweets & occasional Washington Post flashes. Praying that this truly is a great day for the Egyptian movement toward democracy.

Richard Engel was the ONLY American reporter worth listening to during this amazing event.

I live in DC and am lucky enough to have Al Jazeera English on my cable lineup. They put American networks to shame. Excellent coverage by Al Jazeera and Richard Engel

Engel is the most credible American reporter on the middle east. I worry he is an adrenalin junkie and will some day get himself in trouble... But what a guy!!

I agree about Al Jazeera. Even BBC gives a less ethnocentric account of world news than in the U.S. We get all of them here in cow country Illinois! Don't have to live in D.C. to get relevant news.

Richard Engel is a great reporter and we need more like him. He puts himself in danger continuously in all the most dangerous places to report what is happening throughout the world. He lived in Egypt and speaks the language so I can understand how he was able to report the happenings. I am sure he knows how dangerous it is to place himself in those places just to enable him to give us the most current happenings and I commend him for a good job done. I don't suppose he is becoming rich doing so, either!!!!

Interpretation: Lying to the people with guns and the most power is really a bad idea.

Opinion: True

Since Egypt doesn't have a 'second amendment' remedy situation, the above interpretation and opinion are both made of FAIL. Reality won't bow to tea party nonsense.

Agree this is a memorable day for the people of Egypt, but not letting myself get too optimistic until further events unfold. Meantime, just keeping fingers crossed that all will continue to progress the way those valiant people fought for.

Yea. How about that? A country deciding whether or not to overthrow its leader. Hmmm...

As I recall the line went: Sometimes people want help/need help, but are unable to ask for it. The reason why we went into Iraq to overthrow Saddam was because the people wanted him gone, but they weren't able to achieve that ends.

And here I thought we went into Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction. You know 'the smoking gun could turn into a mushroom cloud' thing? Of course later it became to 'free the Iraqi people from tyranny.' Then we had the 'keeping the oil fields from the hands of terrorists.' And don't forget the Al Qaeda bases in Iraq that we had to clear out, never mind that there were none until we invaded, nor the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Never mind. Too much to list here, so the link below outlines the 935 lies we were told to get us into the Iraq war:

http://projects.publicintegrity.org/WarCard/?gclid=CJXH4bfZgKcCFQRubAodvDdlgQ

Interesting point Mickey: Imagine if we had never gone into Iraq. And 8 years later, maybe Egypt spurs a grass-roots democratization and overthrow of tyrants in other parts of the middle-east, and Iraq is one of them. Even though in Iraq this process would most likely be a lot more bloody than in Egypt -- doubt it could be as bloody and destabilizing as the Iraq war.

Mickey Mouser, are you really that ignorant, or are you just throwing a troll grenade for the hell of it?

murison...troll grenade? Maybe you should duck?

@Murison- I am confused by your comment.

Something that seems to be overlooked, here and in Egypt ... the military is the people: bothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, children. The government is the people ... of the people, by the people, and for the people.

There is resource when the 'captain' of any ship is no longer capable of leading. Non-violence works!

Also, the Egyptian military has been trained in the US, thus being exposed to democratic ideals. The "silent majority" that backed Mubarek (how Nixonian) were the real bullies, and they lost with their tails tucked between their legs. They have gone back to being really quiet and (I hope) are not going to mess with the military.

God forgives you for your egregious spelling errors, and so do I. Everyone else, though, not so much. I have to say that not all Christians are represented this way, that many of us care about making sure we don't appear as if we never passed a basic spelling test.

When I went to parochial school, I had to make sure I spelled "crucifixion" correctly. Though I'm not a Catholic anymore, I never forgot these spelling lessons. It just hurts me to have people outside of faith communities thinking that we're all ignorant of basic spelling and grammar. Otherwise, it's best to stick to the LOLcat Bible.

I am new to this and really if you understand the statement, that is all that needs be, if you want to check spelling and gamer and not the content that is your loss

Always keep a dictionary handy, many times I have checked spelling that were correct but just didn't look it.

maybe we've got folks on the blog who don't spell in english as their first language? just sayin'....

Canadians don't count!

Well, maybe we need to hire some damn spelling police...Cynth...how much ya charge?

"When I went to parochial school, I had to make sure I spelled "crucifixion" correctly..."

So... "cruci-fiction"?

;-)

We can only hope what you are saying will come true.

Yes. This was revolution brought to you by Twitter

Actually, it is the second... Tunisia is the crest of this wave.

And, it doesn't mean the struggle is over for either Tunisia or Egypt. How well elections work-- and how sound the development after decades of corruption will be a long, hard slog. Folks used to the easy life on the backs of others do not give up quickly. The proof of that pudding is here...

Exactly. I am with Chris Matthews when he said something about these people showed us how to do it....without fricken' second amendment remedies.

Can you imagine what kind of mess this would have been if they all had been armed?

these people showed us how to do it....without fricken' second amendment remedies.

Who do you think kept the peace? People with guns.

The military showed great restraint and diplomacy in using their influence but make no mistakes their presence made a huge difference. The fact that they did not have to use "guns" does not mean they were unnecessary.

You must also be supportive of the Tea Party who gathered an protested the US government without any violence whatsoever!

Actually it was the protestors ... without guns ... whom ultimately forced the military, with weapons, to come out and say they would not fire on their own people.

Someone had to protect the protesters from the police and hired thugs that propped up Mubarek during the protests. I mean, who was it who threw molotov cocktails at the protesters?

It's okay. I'll wait for your answer. ;~)

Rob: You totally miss the point. What do you think would have happened if the protesters had guns?

You must also be supportive of the Tea Party who gathered an protested the US government without any violence whatsoever!

I am sure I am more supportive of Mohandas Gandhi's efforts in India against England. Having said that, NON VIOLENCE is always a better choice IMHO.

I do not believe this is the appropriate lens through which to evaluate Egypt. All cultures across the world are at varying levels of ideology, philosophy, social policy, and economic status. Egypt is not on par with the US, therefore it seems illogical to me to hold Egypt to US standards of evolution at the inception of it's new government. We here in the US should always encourage countries that are behind us to catch up; this is especially true when it comes to basic human rights. With that said, we must keep in mind that Egypt will not accomplish such social evolution overnight. It will take political activism, education, and above all else time before Egyptians will begin to come around to more modern ways of thinking. To say that their democracy is somehow less valid because it isn't on par with our American standard, I think, is a huge mistake. There are many, many countries around the world that are democratic in process, but are still stuck in 19th century ways of viewing reality. Some are stuck in 18th century; some are stuck in 17th century. The only way these cultures will advance is for us to continue supporting new outlooks on life, for us to continue providing aid and specifically education to these countries, and for there to be a government in place that allows people to speak freely and petition their government. As more injustices become known, as more people become more educated and less afraid, as more economic equality rears it's head, you will have more social equality. All of this takes time.

Here's the link to the investors.com editorial RobDon cites above. http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/562840/201102101920/What-Egyptians-Really-Do-Want.htm

I searched Pew's website for the referenced Spring 2010 study, I think this is the article that discusses it in detail: http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

This is a link to the full report for the die-hard researchers on this blog: http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/Pew-Global-Attitudes-Muslim-Report-FINAL-December-2-2010.pdf

And here is a more recent summary analysis: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1874/egypt-protests-democracy-islam-influence-politics-islamic-extremism

I think it is useful to look at these materials on the Pew website because they show the survey results from Egypt in the context of various Muslim publics including Jordan, Lebanon, Nigeria, Indonesia, Pakistan and Turkey.

Is Egypt the most moderate among these Muslim populations? Clearly not.

Do the Egyptian people deserve the chance to decide who will govern them and how that government should be run? I believe they do.

Will the rise of a new government in Egypt cause the US to reevaluate policies and approaches in the Middle East? Most certainly it will.

Robdon, please be careful of statistics. I went to the Pew research site and checked their data.

It's skewed by only being asked of Muslims. Since they made that limitation I have to question which Muslims? Just as there are variations in Christians and Jews, so there are variations of Muslims.

Then again, I know many in the south in the U.S. that think cutting off hands of a robber is a great idea and feel that women should be seen and not heard!

Amazon261 makes a good point - Pew's study only compared Muslim publics, so it is inaccurate to say "xx% of Egyptians said blah blah blah" when referring to the results of their study. 2010 demographic data show that 90% of Egyptians are Muslim (mostly Sunni) of a total population over 80 million. http://www.indexmundi.com/egypt/demographics_profile.html

Please be careful of statistics which show Americans are dumbasses too. How many believe "evolution is just a theory"? How many believe "the Bible is literally true"? How many believe in ghosts and UFOs?

I bet if you took a similar poll among the attendees at CPAC this week, you'd get similar answers. What percentage of those attending would say religion should play a larger role in politics? Probably darn near 100% in that group. How many of them opposed the community center near Ground Zero? Probably darn near 100% of that group again.

If repubs are so afraid of what is happening in Egypt, (which they probably are, as they seem to be the most fearful people on Earth), then what is their solution? Another CIA coup attempt, which always ends so well, (Iran, Chile, for example), or should we just invade so they get the kind of democracy that we want them to have , (friendly to the US military and corporations, even if they end up with a dictator)? People in this country have to rid themselves of the notion that the rest of the world has to do what we tell them to do, and they can either do it the easy way, by acceding to our demands, or they can do it the hard way, with assassinations or invasions. When will repubs understand the idea of freedom that they constantly jabber about? When they do, they will see that Egyptians have the freedom to choose who their leaders will be, and what kind of government they choose to have. That's what freedom is, not some country singer belting out a tune while wrapped in a flag, or corporations able to do what they want without commonsense regulations.

Wow, don't think I've ever said this before, hope you are sitting down. Mickey, Dutchie, Amazon, I agree with much of what you said. (Sorry, Covah, I'm not on the same page you are on.) I do give a little more credibility to Pew than you might but as a whole, your points are valid.

I guess my real fear is, as well as others, is that the government that eventually results will be a step backwards not forward both for the citizens and for the US interests in the area.

Just like Liberals are concerned with some of the Christians' beliefs and activity in the US, I am equally concerned with the Muslim faith in the Middle East. I guess the greatest concern as that at the core of many of these Muslim groups is the stated desire to have a Islamic government.

That said, I am still hopeful that the people, the Muslims and those not of Islamic faith, will find a way to bring Egypt forward. I have nothing against those of the Islamic faith and want them to be able to live and practice their faith in a free and open way. But, I also want there to be a larger peace and a continued spread of freedom to others.

The fear of islam is the same as that of christianity, that is, not of the religions themselves, but of the radical fundamentalists of both religions that seem hell-bent on initiating the next Crusade. Islam has been demonized in the West, particularly in the US. In the wake of 9-11, it is understandable why many would feel this way, but the actions of the terrorists, who were radical fundamentalists, are no more representative of muslims as a whole than the members of the Westboro Baptist Church are representative of more than a very, very tiny minority of christians. In both cases, the fundamentalists have arisen because they want political power out of all proportion to their real numbers or support among the general population.

So how do we convince muslims around the world that we don't want to see them as a threat, but as partners in a real dialog? It comes down to respect, something every human being wants. For too many years, muslims have been looked down upon by the US in its foreign policy, as we have bent over backwards to support only Israeli interests for the past 60+ years. Because we have shown ourselves to not be an honest broker in our dealings with the Israelis and the muslim world, we are not trusted. If the most powerful nation on earth cannot be trusted, it makes sense that there will be a lot of resentment from those who are on the short end of US foreign policy. We fail to give them respect, so they respond by showing us their scorn and antipathy, feelings which grow every year.

The US needs to recalibrate all its relations with muslim nations, and Egypt will be a good place to start, although it will require a lot of fence mending. As long as we treat muslim nations as second-class citizens at best, and potential threats at worst, groups like Al Qaeda and the Taliban will continue to flourish. On the other hand, if you can show the average muslim on the street that you want them to succeed, economically, socially and politically, and prove it with deeds rather than words, radical groups will wither and die. Like wounded and cornered animals, they will most certainly lash back, but in the end, they will die, because they will be unable to find enough recruits to continue their terrorist acts, and people will actually work to destroy them rather than see their good lives shattered for no good purpose.

Oh no, I share similar fears. I certainly do not want some nut-job to take advantage of the chaos and impose an even worse dictatorship on his people. More than likely if this isgoing to happen it would happen from within the military and my hopes are that there is enough integrity within the military to prevent such an event. But perhaps there is not? I also do not want some radical zealot to take center stage and turn Egypt into some modern age version of an anti-Israeli/anti-American state. That would also be bad. At the same time I think we have to remember that when the basic elements of free democracies are put into place-the right to petition one's own government, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right of assembly, and the right of free elections- the people will flourish, even if it takes time to accomplish. I don't want us Americans to fall into the trap of believing that because these people have old ways of thinking they are somehow incapable of growing culturally (and no I'm not accusing RD of holding such a belief). It's something that, if you listen to how we talk about Muslims for instance on television, seems to seep into public discourse and I think we need to take every effort to dispel such notions. Cultures that are currently behind us philosophically can catch up to us, just like they can if they are behind us economically. Our role as the US should be to encourage these countries to catch up, but to recognize they will do so at their own pace. Patience is a you-know-what sometimes, but in this instance I think it might be the more permanent solution. The last thing we'd want is to have people, like the CIA, impose a new dictator and create more anti-Americanism. Then we'd be running the risk of stiflingsocial growth for even longer. So it's a tight rope. I don't think we can hold Egypt to our American standard of democracy, but at the same time I still share your concerns about what is going to happen. The worst part about this revolution is that there really isn't any way of seeing where Egypt will end up. So all we can do is speculate and speculation is sooooo nerve wracking.

We may have our concerns, which is natural, but in the end, we have to recognize that there is no good way to exert control over what is happening, and we need to resist the urge to do so. It is a fine tightrope to walk between offering support for a new government, and appearing to want to influence or control it. Egypt will become what its people want it to become, and we are fools if we think we can change that without making the situation worse. I disagree that other cultures are "behind" us philosophically or economically. That presumes that we are the acme of achievement in those areas, which is patently false, the cries of the American Exceptionalists notwithstanding. Other cultures have their own way of thinking, their own way of organizing. I doubt that many here could claim with a straight face that we are economically superior when it is primarily greed in a poorly-regulated Wall Street that brought on the massive global recession we are currently experiencing. Nor can we say we are philosophically superior when we have a healthcare system that rewards insurance companies for allowing people to die because they don't want to hurt their bottom line by paying out for treatment, or we have a state governor who has literally killed people because she say the state can't afford to pay for transplants, but does have money to fix a sports stadium.

What Uffdaguy said.

We are philosophically more enlightened in some ways Uffy- especially in the ways RD is talking about. The point, however, is that when it comes to things like equal rights for women, for gays, etc, those rights are earned over time. Cultures change over time- they grow and become more sophisticated and superior to those before them. All have flaws and unless we humans cease to exist we will never be perfect, nor will we ever stop attempting to reach for perfection. But we will progress as a species and we will become freer. That is what our human history has shown us. To presume that Egyptians can't do the same is just wrong. We as America have every right to encourage other countries to grow and expand. We have every right to help countries facilitate growth through globalization and through education. I would call those "humanitarian" efforts. I do not think we have the right to invade a country simply because they are behind us culturally, nor do I think we have the right to judge them as incapable of reaching a similar level of equality. Every nation is capable of doing so and every nation is capable of surpassing America. Many out there already have. I would argue Germany, Canadia, Sweden, and Australia are superior to our country culturally. Hence again why it's so dangerous to take a time stamp of a nation's positions and defer from that where they can or can't grow.

I agree (again) with most of what has been said in some respect.

It comes down to respect, something every human being wants.

It is amusing, as a side note, the number of times I see on this site those on the Left saying "Christians are idiots" in some shape, form or fashion. It has occurred several times in the comments on this post alone. This doesn't make me mad, just amused.

I, too, believe that dialog is so important to understanding others with different beliefs and values. National politics is so different though from personal relationships. It is a much bigger task than one person having a positive experience with someone from a totally different perspective, but that is where it has to start.

Thanks all for the dialog and I continue to be hopeful for the people of Egypt, the Middle East region, and greater World peace.

From what I have seen in background stories in the past few days, people in the muslim world are beginning to ask hard questions about why the world has seemed to pass them by economically, and some are coming to the realization that if they don't turn things around very, very soon, they will end up as a permanent economic, and hence, social backwater. It's astounding that the region that gave us so much in the fields of science and math is now lagging so far behind much of the rest of the world in those areas. I hope that the revolution in Egypt will go so much farther than simply a change in government , but instead start a change in how things are done in a much larger sense. They should not try to do things "the American way", or "the European way", or " the Chinese way", but instead choose a path that gets them to the goal of becoming a modern power in their own unique way. Heck, they may be able to teach the rest of us some new things!

Excellent discussion.

I remain cautiously optimistic for Egypt. Many good points here. The Egyptian people have much to work on in the coming days, weeks, etc.

As someone in my household said today "Build a democracy? That's after they figure out where the keys are!"

It is amusing, as a side note, the number of times I see on this site those on the Right saying "Muslims are terrorists" in some shape, form or fashion. It has occurred several times in the comments on this post alone. This doesn't make me amused, just outraged.

Who said Muslims are terrorists? I'm a little confused because I don't remember that being said here (enlighten me please). What I see is that we've said some of us are concerned about a radical state. Radicalism is not equivalent to the religion. Radicals are sociopaths who manipulate religion in order to carry out their immoral acts (such as mass murder). Radicals exist within every religion and they are the loudest amongst any said religion. They do not, however, represent the religion itself.

Let them define their freedom? What does that mean? So if they adopt a Islamic theocracy and impose strict Muslim beliefs like in other Middle Eastern countries, that is okay with you?

We are not their police. Whatever they decide FOR THEMSELVES is fine by me. It is their right. Just as it is our right to decide what is best for us. We are not the world's police!

We (Americans or others) can not continue to try to define what all lives or governments should be like, look at where we are, open your eyes wide, the picture can not be sterileand all the same, we must learn to respect each other as we are!!!!!!!!!!!!! Growth and change must be wanted as they have shown. It must be theirs.

Let them define our freedom? What does that mean? So if they adopt a Christian theocracy and impose strict Christian beliefs on this and other countries, that is okay with you?

Republicans say America is a Christian country and our rights come from God!

No, our Declaration of Independence says it, not the Republicans.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

You can choose to disagree with this Declaration, but it is not the Republicans who say we get our rights from God (our Creator) but this founding document.

As far as being a Christian nation, at the very least one has to say we are a nation founded mainly on Judeo-Christian principles and values. To say otherwise would be historically dishonest.

It says "THEIR" creator, not "OUR" creator. A small thing but it's the difference between we, as a people, having to follow the God of the founders of this country or, being able to follow the god of our choosing.

As for Egypt, whatever they follow, we have billions of military aid that can be pulled if they turn into a radical Islamic country like Iran. Let us not forget they have a Christian population as well who were a part of this revolution.

It's going to be interesting.. very interesting.

Republicans who say we get our rights from God (our Creator) but this founding document.

Prove "their Creator" is not Allah.

Since you cannot prove a negative let me posit

The Creator mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is Allah of the Koran.

Now prove me wrong.

Republicans lust to embrace Shari'a law. They say so straight out over and over. "Our rights come from God" they say, "God" of course being Allah.

So, are you saying that if we vote in a our country a majority of extreme Christians and they outlaw abortion, gay marriage, gambling, drinking, and the list goes on, you will say "okay, that's the way it is?"

You see, the intent of the Declaration, as you hint at but then misinterpret, is that you have rights, freedoms, that are given you by the fact that you have been created. Someone else can't take those rights away even if their God says they can.

I don't have to prove that God is not Allah. You are trying to say that if God says to kill innocent people, oppress individuals, mistreat honest folks for no reason, then that type of "democracy" should be okay with us, as long as their God say so. How ridiculous is that?

No, you can worship your Creator but there is a limit where that ends. You can't build an altar in my living room.