"... Do we want to stop sick people from coming in for health care?"
George Pauk, a retired doctor with Physicians for a National Health Program.
Dr. Pauk is objecting to a new bill in Arizona that would require hospitals to first make sure a patient is in the country legally. SB 1405 is another creation from State Senate President Russell Pearce, the same guy who brought the world SB 1070, or "Papers, please."
Under Sen. Pearce's new proposal, hospital staff who discovered an illegal immigrant "must contact the local federal immigration office." So, yes, as Dr. Pauk suggests, you might think twice about having that nagging little symptom of a heart attack checked out -- if you're here illegally or if you're here legally and think might suspect you anyway. Since when does a trip to the emergency room start with a hunt for your passport?
Think Progress today picks up a report from Kansas, where a state representative says she and her son identified an illegal immigrant in part because of her "olive complexion." Set aside the debate over a humane and rational immigration policy -- this kind of thinking gives some of our own citizens reason to fear that they can't just go about their business.
Sen. Pearce's bill was shelved yesterday for lack of votes -- other Pearce projects are on hold while Gov. Brewer focuses on jobs.
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This is of course reprehensible, but the bill does specify that immigration status is checked for "non-emergency care".
Even so, if this passes people will probably assume that they will be harassed if they have to go to the hospital in an emergency as well, and may hesitate to call 911 in a life-threatening emergency.
This is a bad idea.
It also specifies that people who come in for emergency care have their immigration status verified as soon as they are stabilized.
I think Russell Pearce is sick, suffering from a heart 10 times too small. Be sure to check his papers when he reports to the ER.
There is always so much attention and speculation that all illegal immigrants emigrate north from Mexico, but what about those illegal immigrants that emigrate south from Canada, or from overseas?
It's common knowledge, for example, that there are many Canadians living in the U.S. illegally, but those reports never seem to make the news headlines. I wonder why that is? Why is the U.S. so prejudiced toward the Mexican immigrants? What is it about the South American, or Central American, people that we in the U.S. seem to hate?
Well they already wiped out most of the Native Americans when they first got here, why not finish up with the Mayan and Aztec descendants. We can't hand out smallpox blankets so lets just make them afraid to seek medical help. I mean their skin is different and they speak a different language, obviously the course of action is to single them out and harass them just because of how they look.
Is that what it looks like to you? Because it sure does to me.
I guess no one should be surprised though. I mean they are already trying to get into our hospitals and change our options when it comes to reproductive rights, I guess we might as well just start using hospitals for legal proceedings >.< I mean hospitals already make a business of life and death with the insurance companies, maybe they can get in with the private prisons and build a ward to charge the government money for detaining people so that they can make more money.
I'm not pessimistic about the direction the gop and arizona are going...not at all >.>
Canadians have healthcare. We can bill Canada if a Canadian gets sick here. Canada is very generous, if you get sick up there they will take care of you too.
*Heavy German Accent* "I trust your papers are in order? Nein? You vill be 'detained' until such time as we can verify your identity, then."
I'm quite surprised that Russell Pearce's ties to white supremacists aren't getting more coverage. Many months ago a photograph emerged of Pearce arm-in-arm with a member of the Neo-Nazi National Socialist Movement named JT Ready. Pearce vehemently denied ever knowing Ready. Pearce claimed Ready was just some guy at a rally that wanted his picture taken with him. Then, lo and behold, months later a video surfaces of Pearce actually endorsing JT Ready. Pearce was caught red-handed, and no one reported on it.
The national media is only covering one side of the story, the anti-immigrant side. Anything that tarnishes those who represent the movement simply doesn't show up. For example, the lady from the Minutemen who was just found guilty of murdering a latino man and his 9 year old daughter, and critically wounding his wife has been completely absent from the media, and I doubt that the trial of her co-conspirators will get any more coverage.
So you're saying that he's a Nazi. An ACTUAL Nazi.
In practice, the MSM gives those on the right a pass whenever possible.
Although the national media does not address the issues or cover the details there is one paper in the metro Phoenix area that is covering Russell Pearce, Joe Arpaio, and other Arizona embarrassments. Please visit the Phoenix New Times web site for complete coverage and archives of Arizona political news.
Hey phish, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and hangs out in the pond with the other ducks....
Isn't it time for Arizona to cecede from the Union?
Secede hell, KICK them out!
There is actually a bill being considered that suggests that very idea!!!
Only in Arizona.
(I am ashamed to admit that I live here)
Retired dude, I'm very sorry. I'm from Oklahoma and I hate its guts...but I'm glad I'm here and not in Arizona. I'd piss off the wrong Neo-nazi and get myself hanged.
Unfortunately, Arizona's Know-Nothing cancer has metastasized. Versions of it's "papers please" bill have popped up all over. Presumably should these other proposed bills become law, they'll be implemented in other states as well. It used to be that as California goes, so goes the country. Not any more.
Here in Oklahoma we've had immigrants flee Tulsa by the thousands because of anti-immigrant iniatives long before Az 1070, and then had to cope with loss of tax revenue, sales of goods and services. Its hilarious. We also passed anti-sharia legislation and force women to have sonogram transponders inserted vaginally so they can see the fetuses they are about to abort.
It's not Arizona, but it still sucks.
I would think EMTALA could cover this issue. Anything that would delay or interfere with emergency medial care is wrong wrong wrong! And I believe EMTALA covers all of the US.
Have you forgotten the right's rediscovered love for nullification? Obama has, in turns, failed to find his inner FDR and inner LBJ; I have doubts his inner AJ will fare any better.
In my opinion, Latinos are the new blacks. It has become politically incorrect to show open discrimination against black people, but the Latinos are now the bad guys and seemingly new and fair targets of the bigots. It is so much easier to discriminate against someone who has something that puts them at risk of discrimination, such as skin color or clothiing.
In addiiton to Canadians, there are many other people here illegally. Many Irish, for one. But you can't tell by looking at them, or at the Canadians, so they are not vilified.
I shudder when I see someone discriminated against for something they can't change. If we're going to discriminate, let's do it against people's behaviour, like the boneheads that carry the prejudice flag.
Interesting argument...
However, most Latinos came here on their own. Most blacks, from heritage, were brought here by force.
There is a different obligation between blacks and Latinos. I don't recall seeing whites only and Latinos only signs in my history classes.
Quite frankly, blacks opened the door for Latinos to immigrate here.
Interesting thought, Sam, but Arizona was originally a part of Mexico. That means Latinos have been here longer than it's been either a state or a territory. Would it be fair to say they opened the door for whites to immigrate here?
@Daisy-709121 - Your post reminded me of the discrimination of Japanese-Americans during WWII. Basically, if you look different, YOU aren't one of US.
Sadly, now, it's like watching history repeat itself. Government-endorsed discrimination.
Rule of thumb: just because they don't teach it in American public schools doesn't mean it didn't happen. My Mexican-American parents-in-law grew up with Jim Crow in 1950s West Texas. It may not have been spelled out on a sign (though if it was, they surely wouldn't have used the word "Latino"; I have seen images of old signs that say "NO Dogs/Negroes/Mexicans"). But in general, if blacks couldn't go somewhere, or could only go in the back, that also meant Mexicans couldn't go there or could only go in the back. For example, at the local movie theater the main part of the auditorium was reserved for whites and the balcony was for everyone else. They also attended segregated schools; I have a copy of one of my father-in-law's class pictures from elementary school, and all the children are Latino. This wasn't de facto geographical segregation - they lived right in the middle of a town with a large white population.
You are forgetting that fatwa issued against the teaching of racial and ethnic studies. That counts.
My Blond Hair and Blue Eye's might give me away as a German or Norwegian that might of overstayed my Visa Waiver. Glad I have my Hawaii Birth Certificate
But that won't be good enough as we have seen from the birther movement
Ah...no. Just no. It is not a hospital's job to enforce immigration laws. We already have a government agency for that. Hospitals are there to treat people. Period. The only law a hospital is and should be required to enforce is the mandated reporting law which states that if you suspect a child is being abused you must report it. Apparently Arizona would rather have their mortality rate skyrocket because that's what will happen when people start refusing to be taken to the hospital for critically needed treatment if this bill passes.
Look, I understand that we need immigration reform. But this is not the way to do it. This is not solving the core problem of why people are coming here illegally. This is a blatant attack on human rights, seeking to keep people away from possibly life-saving medical assistance.
If Arizona was really serious about immigration, start cracking down on employers. People come here because they know that they can get a job to help support their family down south, which is noble. We need to fix the immigration process and make it more possible for these people to come through legally, and crack down on the employers who are hiring people under the table, who are both drastically under paying their workers without papers and giving people a reason to continue coming here without papers.
Something like that would be an acceptable fix, restricting access to health care is not.
Very well put. Employers want cheap labor, but don't want to view their laborers as humans and have to accept they have human rights.
Yes! finially someone else who sees the real problem.Without employers paying under the table their would not be the needed jobs but those who want the people to go back don't want the employers hurt even though they are the problem them and their greed.People legal or illegal pay taxes unless working under the table
Cora, common sense as in your post is anathema to the rabid right.
Yes, I know, Joy. But I do try.
Just to comment further on this issue, a few other things we could do to help reduce illegal immigration:
1. Simplify the application/visa process. The process is convoluted, expensive, and extremely confusing. The waiting list is astronomical, and if you don't have the money to grease the right palms (and most poor Mexicans don't) they would be middle-aged before getting here. It's why trying to run the border, while risky, is more feasible to a lot of people.
2. Put the spotlight on businesses known to hire people who might be here illegally. Restaurants are notorious offenders, as are produce growers and other employers. Run audits on their employment records and match them to financial records and do suprise checks. If an inspector shows up with a list saying that the company has 15 people hired but 30 are there working, then they know something is up.
3. Work with Mexico to improve human conditions there. The reason why people are so desperate to come here is because they get paid next to nothing working in Mexico, and even a below minimum wage rate in America is still better than what they would get there. If we can improve things in Mexico, the motivation for leaving and coming here illegally will be gone.
All of these are far more reasonable than trying to force hospitals to become enforcers for INS.
AMEN!
I agree with you that we should stop employers from hiring, but would they be profiling if they were asked to prove their citizenship? Many social security number are stolen by illegals, so that won't work.
But, they would still get free living assistance, right liberals? So what better than to come here, not work, and qualify for education, housing, and food?
When we allow illegals to come into our country without proper screening our population's health is put at risk. They come from all over and bring their home countries contagious diseases, many that we have all but resolved here in America. Seems like the hospital is a perfect place to do something about it.
Nope. I have not heard of one single major disease outbreak that has been attributed to illegal immigration. That's a junk argument Katy, and I'll repeat what I've said below: That's an argument not worthy of you. That's an argument I'd expect to see in a racist publication, not from you.
And it's not profiling to ask for proof of citizenship before starting a job. I've been asked for my social security card when I've been hired, and I'm white. It's not profiling if you make everyone do it. It's only profiling if you have someone who looks to be of Latino descent and you only ask for his or her card.
As for the cards being faked, that's another area where it would be acceptable to try and fix the problem of illegal immigration. Crack down harder on forgers with harsher sentences, and create databases that can check quickly to see if documents are legit. Create task forces to find these forgers providing fake documents and catch them. Start putting pictures on Social Security cards so that it will be harder to use someone else's number.
Any number of these are acceptable to try and fix the problems without dragging hospitals into it. It's not their job, and they don't want it to be their job. They have bigger things to worry about. Like trying to convince the insurance company to have a heart and pay for Tiny Tim's prosthetic leg.
Katy is parroting Lou Dobbs hysteria over illegal immigrants spreading leprosy.
She is also full of crap re free housing, food, and education. How do American citizens qualify for these?
If Arizona secedes from the United States, do Arizona citizens then have to show their passports and visas when traveling to, say, New Mexico? Will there be a fence built between the two states?
Traveling to... New Mexico? Heavy on the irony, eh? heee heee!
:-D
Our new governor in New Mexico is just as bad as Arizona's governor. I can't understand why or how she was voted in. Are people getting dumber? How is this happening?
Dumber? Maybe not in terms of actual intelligence. But these are pretty anxious times because of the economy (and because some politicians live to fan the flames of fear). Fear pushes people to the right and right into the arms of the politicians who use fear to their advantage. It's not exactly stupidity that causes people to behave like this but it's an adequate substitute, kind of like how a sugar pill can do the job of a painkiller in the right circumstances.
What century is it again? Seems like the wrong-right wing's thought processes are stuck in times long ago. Women's and civil rights, evolution, lunar pull, etc., seem to be foreign concepts, yet once again, to this ilk.
The Vatican didn't recognize that Earth revolved around the Sun until the 1990s, so I guess the lag time on intelligence for the religious right is about 3 centuries.
If only everyone voted, and every voter was well-informed and voted their own self-interest, we wouldn't be represented by these buffoons (I know that's alot to ask in the U.S.)
At least I dodged having a Senator Angle...I wouldn't let her fold my laundry!
Donald Trump called Obama "a bigger a war monger then bush"
...this from a man who is losing opportunity to make money off the war...as if he needs it...
Not to side with Trump, but is he wrong? Obama hasn't sufficiently acted on his campaign promises regarding national defense. The wars started under Bush have simply been continued under Obama, and in some cases intensified, with little difference in strategy. I have little hope that we will ever have an alternative to the war mongering executive, regardless of which party they claim to represent.
If you'd just stop bleeding for a moment, amigo, I'd like to see some papers here.
I am sooo glad this measure has been considered in Arizona. We need to stop letting Mexicans take advantage of our social services- you know the same services us conservatives are trying to eliminate. Mexicans cost us money. Every time an illegal immigrant goes to the hospital that costs us money. How this isn't an argument to cover Mexican immigrants (legal and non legal) I do not know. They invade our schools and dumb down our children- the TV, video games, and lack of parental involvement are not the cause. They take our jobs and drive working wages down. Why would someone hire me for 10$/hr when they can hire a Mexican for 5$/hr? Mexicans have babies here in America so that they can come back any time and enjoy our health care. This is why us conservatives were so opposed to Obamacare. Because of Obamacare Mexicans will now be flooding into the country left and right to access our government run health care. Nevermind the fact that Mexico has universal health care and many Americans cross the boarder in order to be treated at Mexican clinics. Also, just so everyone knows, it's a liberal conspiracy to say tuberculosis is contagious. Everyone knows if you put someone w/ TB in a contained area they will get better. TBers staying home would be safer for all of us.
Wow, really? See definition of "scapegoating".
If insurance companies wouldn't be sociopaths and let people die for profits and increase premiums exponentially their would have been no need for ObamaCare, but as most large disconnected corporations do, they had no qualms about taking advantage of Americans, just the bottom line.
We already pay for everyone that isn't insured when they arrive at hospital. If the insurance pool was larger (ObamaCare) and the patients were "preinsured" neither they nor us wouldn't pay the astronomical price at the time of the emergency. Also ObamaCare promotes more competition among the insurance companies by being able to go across state lines and participate in larger buying pools therefore reducing premiums.
This is a complicated issue (immigration and healthcare) and to minimize it and blame the people on the bottom rungs is ludicrous.
And parents have nothing to do with falling grades of their own kids? Dropping wages for the middle and lower classes mean that both parents have to work out of the home and that doesn't have any bearing on the kids' achievements?
Complicated issues can't be summed up in Fox talking points. Unfortunately when news bureaus had to become profitable they have all become sensationalized since the bulk of Americans seem to have no tolerance for in-depth analytical reporting of complicated issues that are actually important. They demand Lindsey Lohan and Michael Vick.
Well if anyone didn't get the sarcastic points of my post Dem4life totally summed them up ;-)
Mickey, rest assured that amongst us regular lurkers/contributors to the MaddowBlog, your remarkable gifts for sarcastic humor are the stuff of legend (and much appreciated)!
You crack me up, Mickey!
Mickey probably should consider putting a sarcasm warning on her comments. Actually, maybe we all should. There is such a solid core of regulars who are now used to each other's various psychoses that it's easy to forget the less-frequent visitors. Mickey seems normal to me. That probably means I've gone very strange in the head but I'm in too deeply to know.
I wasn't familiar with your sarcasm, but while reading your post, I was thinking, "this person can't be for real", yet sadly (scary too), I wasn't sure because the talking points you were using were so indicative of conservative talking points.
Yeah. If you re-read my post you'll see that I point out usually after the talking point sentence the stupidity of that talking point. So for instance I make a comment about how it's the fault of immigrants for our bad education system. I immediately follow that with "...the TV, video games, and lack of parental involvement are not the cause." Which basically is trying to say that those who blame immigrants solely for our piss-poor education rates are ignoring every other element that could possibly be affecting their child. To be fair to you I totally can see how if you don't know me it comes across as just crazy-mad cognitive dissonance =)
Cut it out, Arizona. I like living here. It's 83 degrees right now, and BEAUTIFUL. Can we evict Russel Pearce? AND Joe Arpaio? seriously.
This bill is just STUPID, and it's another example of Pearce's grandstanding - it's not about his constituents, it's not about the will of the people, it's about doing something outlandish in order to garner attention. Pearce is doing his darndest to make a name for himself as "someone who liberals hate" so that he can (my guess) run for Kyl's senate seat, or at least just keep his own political future viable. Our state legislature is no longer about the state's interests - it's only about the personal, self-advancing interests of our legislators. Remember Tom Horne, a-hole Superintendent of Schools? His vile crusade against Ethnic Studies (HB2281) got him enough attention to win the race for Attorney General. These guys don't care about their constituents, or about the state (happy 99th birthday yesterday, BTW), but only about themselves. UGH! Enough already! Arizonans are sick of all y'all.
Tucson's response to the January 8th tragedy has shown the country (and the world) that Arizonans - at least Tucsonans - are caring, loving, warm, and willing to help ANYONE, without regard for who they may be or where they may be from. Our brick-headed legislature up in PHX and their self-serving publicity stunt bills in NO WAY reflect the perspectives of the people down here. Dude, Arizona was born on Valentine's Day. We're all about the love. This hate crap spewing out of our capitol? Unacceptable. GTFO, Russel Pearce. (And take Sherrif Joe with you!)
From what I hear I have to agree with ya. I used to think Sherrif Joe was ok because he was hard on the crminals instead of giving them an easy way to live(food in their mouths roof of their heads .TV'S ect)But than I read how he went after anyone opposing him with false claims and arrests and that changed my mind about him not how inmates are treated.The6y should not have cabel and the net ect.
OK, so I keep saying, they got rid of Ben Ali in Tunisia, and they got rid of Mubarak in Egypt ... how come Arizonans can't seem to get rid of our own dictators? We supposedly have more democracy here than they do, so our job should, in theory, be much easier. Rout these economic and racial pigs once and for all. Make THEM get a job at McDonalds for once, as they are THE laziest people in the world and wouldn't hurt for them to experience actual labor, day in and day out, for sub-poverty wages.
I suggest a big happy campout surrounding the state capitol and let Pearce SEE just how well his austerity program against the underclass is fairing. I wonder how many people here have the cojones to do it?
How about they pass a law against the businesses that hire the illegal immigrants and hit them with a heavy fine. Fewer jobs for illegal immigrants, fewer illegal immigrants. But no the legislature probably gets to much money from them.
They are already on the books and I say enforce them. There should be ruinous fines and even prison for people who hire illegal aliens and contractors and restaurants should be considered suspect at all times.
But, of course, that would be in conflict with the GOP's broader pro-business, anti-regulation attitude. They wouldn't dare go after the funders of their campaigns when there are powerless people to demonize and persecute. If BP can dump who knows how many barrels of oil into the Gulf of Mexico and get an apology from a GOP politician as if BP were the victim...you can imagine how eager the party would be to crack down on corporations for employing illegal aliens.
I'm not disagreeing with you, Peter, but it's just not in the cards considering how the GOP is wired. And I'd be stunned rigid if you hadn't already had that thought.
We need for this state to "go away" - it's another red state that drains the gov't coffers and does little to sustain the country and now is adopting early Nazi tactics. The coastal states,East and West coasts, basically keep the country alive financially as well as sustain it's creativity, nourish it's soul.......
Let's not start the whole "Arizona sucks" thing, alrighty? Same goes w/ Kansas on abortion and Texas for being Texas. AZ, TX, KS are part of the union and as a union we are always united (yay redundancy!). There are a lot of good people in Arizona who would never support these pieces of legislation. They get drowned out by stupidity and bigotry, but that same stupidity and bigotry doesn't define their state. I know a lot of good people who live in Arizona (as I do Kansas). I don't think it's fair to say that because there are a couple of whack jobs w/ microphones the entire ship has to be sunk.
I would like to agree MM, but it certainly seems that the "couple of whack jobs w/microphones" are the only ones voting in those states.
I have to say that there are a lot of good people in AZ who support the legislation and they are the ones who are, in the main, paying for the lax policies we currently have. The law applies to non-emergency care (check before treating) and is a notification issue for emergency care (treat first and let the gov - who is paying for it - know the person is illegal afterwards).
I live in NYC and if I went to the hospital the first thing they want from me is ID (LEGAL State identification) and my insurance card. They should demand same (ID) from everyone. When my Mother recently had a heart attack in FL they pestered us to no end for her insurance and ID, which I had to go and get from her apartment. As my Mom has a strong Mancunian accent, they thought she might not be a citizen and they didn't shy away from telling me so. I had no problem with it.
No disrespect intended.
I'll second Mickey's sentiments here (despite having occasionally given vent, in frustration, to the opposite view - so, I'm not always consistent, ok?)... someone needs to remind those folks that "the people united, will never be defeated!"
Yeah, but extremists always seem more numerous than they really are simply because of the amount of noise they make. And a person with no scruples or real morality or ethics can, in a way, do more (or more quickly and spectacularly) than a thousand people with those things. Which is a pity and not only because I'm coming dangerously close to Nixon's "silent majority" crap. But, that aside, Mickey is right and, to really drive the point home, blaming all Arizonans for what their extremist Republican leaders do is really no different than when Islamophobes blame all Muslims for what their extremists do. So, if we object to what the right does in respect to Islam, we (me included) had all better make very sure we don't do anything similar regarding anyone else at all. Tempting as it can be.
So here's the details on how/why the bill was shelved:
See? Actual Arizonans can't stand the stuff our legislature is doing.
ok, so the link disappeared. trying it again:
or, plaintext: (remove the spaces, obvs)
http: // desertfreepress . com /sb1405-requiring-hospitals-report-undocumented-patients-placed-hold
The only way to combat this is for all citizens of Arizona to start asking EVERYONE to prove they are citizens right now. Everyone asking everyone, everywhere!
Let them get a taste of it and see if they pass the bill. Start with the Guv and work down to local councilmen and don't forget their spouses/significant others and the children - especially the children. Maybe make them line up at the door to grade school tomorrow and prove they "belong" there.
Hell, maybe wait staff at restaurants should ask for papers before they serve lunch. Start with the Guv - where does she eat lunch or dinner?
Supermarket - Hey, no veggies for you until you prove you're not the illegal who picked them - ya know?
Also the pastor at every "Christian" church should hold a Papers Please Sunday" cause what better way to be a shining example of Christian values than to refuse to preach to "illegals."
Because we can clearly see that it won't stop at medical services. It started with law enforcement and is moving into healthcare, so what's next? Just as likely, it's starting with "illegals who come over the border from Mexico" but who's next?
You know the Nazi's started exterminating the Jews and when it was all over 10 million people had been murdered - 6 million of them were Jews. Who were the other 4 million?
I don't think it has really sunk in. Idiots present these crazy bills so that the unavoidable Corporate control won't be noticed. Like in Germany when papers please, and license violations and lots of insane bureaucratic BS was blown off as stupid and crazy and the insane actions of a foolish minority who just wanted to push a bunch of silliness on the people. Meanwhile the real powerful were planning the Holocaust. What is our Corporate Fascist Ruling class planning? The elimination of "safeguards" at all levels - Health, Law, Insurance, Social Security, wages, Consumer Protections, and now the "Left Wing" President is looking at cuts in student aid, programs for the poor, and lord know where else. WHY? Because once the US consists of two classes - those who are wage earners and those who own and run the few large corporations who pay for politicians. As long as wage earners have no recourse through the government, their only recourse is to comply with the wishes of their employers. That is when these idiot laws slide to the side and the real oppression kicks in - keep quiet, work, comply.... repeat.
All the complaints I read about the flurry of crazy laws are centered around those laws. Wile thus preoccupied, the dismantling of the country at BASIC levels is continuing apace.
Who is a bigger war monger- Bush or President Obama?
Well Bush-Cheney Inc. started the wars, they had a number of angles going for them, including profiteering. President Obama let himself be led by the same forces of vested interests in continuing with the misadventures.
The Military Industrial Complex (the same which the good Dwight D.E warned us about) is well and doing even better.
There is a Japanese saying that 'business is war'.We have turned it around to 'war is business'.
I heard it said, if President Obama ended these wars right now and brought back the men and women serving there, the unemployment rate would be at a staggering 15%!!! It only goes to show that war is big business and our economy revolves around war!!!
The states are going off the deep end. In South Dakota there's this horror:
If Arizona follows South Dakota's lead will a shoot-on-sight law be next?
Jo6Pack,
You said it. It may as well come down to what you say.
Its a sad state of affairs. Perhaps time would come when the Statue of Liberty would have no place on our soil - God forbid.
Even if you choose to be blinded to any truth that might arise as to equality, human beings ... all related, are known to carry and pass on a number of diseases. With today's antibiotics and super bugs, it is very important to thoroughly diagnose and treat any possible new disease, or re-emergent 'old' disease ... like don't ya' think? Universal, single payer health care is the only model that truly makes moral, or even safety's, sense. All life can go somewhere decent to get physical, or mental, health, and if no recourse ... to die with dignity.
The right-wing only cares about quality of 'life' in the womb. They couldn't care less after the umbilical cord is cut.