Indiana's Democrats left the state today rather than vote on an anti-union bill. The measure that would take away unions' ability to get contracts requiring all workers to chip in dues. The state's Republican governor reportedly advised his party's legislators against pushing the issue.
Not that Indiana's Governor Mitch Daniels is a big union guy. He blocked collective bargaining for public employees after taking office in 2005. Now Think Progress picks up on him explaining to NPR what Wisconsin's governor stands to gain from doing the same. It's not about the budget. Governor Daniels:
Well, the most powerful special interest in America today are the government unions. They're the leading financial contributors. They have the biggest PAC's. They have muscle. A lot of times their contracts provide for time off to go politic and lobby. . . .
. . . . The problem comes from the, you know, forced expropriation, whether they like it or not, of money from -- that started with the taxpayers, from the salaries of government workers, circulated back into a political machine that is the most powerful out there.
In Columbus, Ohio, today, thousands of protesters turned to oppose a Wisconsin-style bill that would strip public employees of their bargaining rights. The Ohio state highway patrol limited the number of people allowed in, ostensibly because of safety. The lockout enraged House Minority Leader Armond Budish. "This is what we ask for. We want people to participate," he told the Columbus Dispatch. "They come down from all parts of Ohio to participate in government and the doors are locked. That is wrong."
The story from Wisconsin is no longer just the story of Wisconsin. We'll have a big look at this tonight on the show. See you at 9 P.M. Eastern. Meanwhile, if you've been to one of the rallies and you've got pictures, videos, reports to send, please send them.
(Image from a gallery of photos at the Columbus Dispatch.)
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Laura- I write for the leading progressive blog in Ohio, Plunderbund. The story in Ohio gets even more interesting:
Turns out that the GOP was having a wine and dine function with lobbyists as ordinary Ohioans were shut out of the building in the cold. The anti-SB 5 protestors began singing "God Bless America" as they were locked out of their own Statehouse.
We're available if you need someone on this story. E-mail me for contact.
nice blog keep up good work
Anyone here watched the taking of the Oath of the Governor Scott Walker?
He (Walker) was crystal clear about his intentions.
I just want to make general comments about Rachel Maddow. In a word: Incredible! I find Rachel to be a shining example of the best that we, as human beings, have to offer. As a journalist, Rachel is thorough, fair and searching. Her stories benefit from her great focus and depth and bring the viewers an informed and intellegent perspective that they can not find anywhere else. As a broadcaster, she is entertaining and informative. Her intensity and commitment to the story, and to the truth, are an inspiration in this world of sub-mediocre talking faces. As a woman, she is charming and delightful. Her easy laugh and intelligent sense of humor are heart-warming, not to mention her wit and beautiful smile, which should be able to inspire even the most avid tea partier. As a gay woman, she is a reminder to us straight people that gay people are just like us (only better, frequently) and that we should be proud of and respectful to our gay brothers and sisters. Let me conclude with a great big THANK YOU Rachel, for your many contributions in making this world a slightly better place.
http://www.progressohio.org/blog/2011/02/locked-out-of-capitol-ohio-workers-sing-god-bless-america.html
http://www.progressohio.org/
GO BUCKEYES! GO OHIO
I didn't vote for these fools. Please fellow Ohioans use common sense in voting next time
I suppose if we were to put a positive spin on things (is that even possible???) the last election proves that we as a country have shifted radically to the right. At least this proves the Tea Partiers wrong when they say they're the "new center." That's got to count for something? Hopefully people will be less stupid next time- when you dance with the crazy, you get crazy.
Mickey M - I think the last election only proves that the citizens who chose to vote in the last election have moved radically to the right.
That's fair
Mickey...: I think "crazy" is addictive. Goodness knows too many people seem to be addicted to it.
MM - Unfortunately for the folks in WI I think the old saw 'you reap what you sow' is far too applicable. The positive spin is that we are human beans, not jelly beans and we learn from our mistakes! The prognostication is that this is just the 'tip of the iceberg' and other states throughout the good ol' US of A are going to have to suffer the fruits of their choices in the last election too.
Many fell prey to the siren call of the GOP and believed that all the ills in the nation were resultant of those "Commie Socialist liberal Democrats" and either shied away from or cast GOP ballots at the polls in order to "teach them a lesson", to "take back their America". Well, now the veil has been pulled back and the "true beast" has been revealed and it will take us all rallying together to run him out of town.
Wow....I'm glad I avoid cliches like the plague! LMAO.
I feel the 60's coming around again...let's just hope it stays peaceful.
That's up to the other side. Remember how MLK insisted on nonviolent protest? For the most part, proponents of civil rights were peaceful but their opponents were savagely violent. As Marx observed, revolution is often violent; MLK proved that violence doesn't have to be perpetrated by the revolutionaries. Those on the wrong side of history, and on the wrong side of humanity, really have nothing better than force as an argument.
Just wait for Florida, folks. Session opens next week. It;ll be fun.
Please, Rachel, will you cover the Koch Brothers and their influence on Governor Walker and Wisconsin? Please cover what was in the bill that has nothing to do with finances or collective bargaining.
He's going to lay off 10-12 thousand public employees if it doesn't pass. So it must have something to do with finances.
I'll be looking for my Ohio friends that work in education. I know the Dad is Republican, but so was my Dad. I think some Republicans might see their loved ones out there and gain a more positive attitude. I'm not sure they are pro Union, but one would think if you are faced with something to take away your bargaining rights.
GO Buckeyes and GO Badgers! We see the issue as let's force Unions out of power and while we do this "brilliant brain storm" to take power away from Republican opponents. See how they attack voter registration efforts, block or "question" voters in "certain districts" and claim fraud? Same thing.
Last evening (02/21/2011), you aired two, ostensibly desperate, stories -- one of Wisconsin protesters, the other Wackenhut contractors -- to unveil the disingenuous, malicious agenda of the Wisconsin governor, whose goal is to destroy the voice of the middle class, in this case countless workers/taxpayers. Tonight you might compare him to Middle East tyrants, who give favor to police and fire fighters -- the two groups, with the exception of the National Guard, which are the primary security force for U.S. governors, who, in dire circumstances, require first responders in times disasters, riots and [Middle Class] uprisings.
In the on-going coverage of the clash in Libya, Qaddafi identified the on-going Libyan resistance as made up of young people who had taken hallucinogenic drugs, taken to the streets, and set about killing Qaddifi's "innocent" mercenaries." (Let's remember that Qaddifi won power in the 1970s, the golden age of American flower power and, in his untold wealth and power, had no incentive to keep abreast of contemporary cultural changes.) Today, or yesterday, Glenn Beck, in similar pronouncement, labeled the protesters in Wisconsin as "hippies" ( the mellow-yellow flower children of the '70s), and the defiant democratic senators "girls."
The language is disturbingly similar. Qaddifi's rhetoric, designed to humiliate and intimidate the resistance is, in character and tone, the same as the Republican machine, whose intent is to belittle, then squash the middle class. While we are seeing bloody eruptions in the middle east, the stirrings in Wisconsin well up from the same sentiments. Refine the analogy and report with the research and argument that only you can produce and disseminate.
You may recall that, on the eve of the Civil War, Massachusetts abolitionists who funded John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry in 1859 ( the goal was to distribute the firearms in the arsenal to slaves who would then find their way to freedom) were called to report to Washington to testify before a senate committee -- on which Jefferson Davis, the future president of the Confederacy, vigorously served -- formed to investigate this so-called federal crime. Franklin Sanborn, one of Brown's most ardent supporters, fled to Canada, and later holed up in his house in Concord, Massachusetts, refusing to report to Washington bureaucrats.
Though Sanborn was not on a state or federal payroll, as are Wisconsin state legislators, when federal agents tried to arrest him in Concord, MA, one night in April, 1860, his lawyers presented the agents of the U.S. Senate with a writ of habeas corpus. The Massachusetts Superior Court decided that the agents of the senate had no powers to arrest Sanborn (no authority beyond the Senate chambers). Sanborn, claiming assault on his person, won in court, and sent the federal deputies packing -- a pivotal decision handed down by Superior Court Chief Justice Lemuel Shaw.
You go, Rachel.
Carol
The average Milwaukee teachers compensation for 2011, according to their own budget director, is $100,005. Or about $500 per working day.
For this the taxpayers got a system where only 41% of 10th graders are proficient in reading & only 28% are proficient in math.
Something obviously has to change there.
Who else but a union would want to continue this "Quagmire".
Your feelings matter but facts count more!!
Please post a link to your source, konabob?
If you're going to complain about facts at least get yours correct:
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_wi.htm#25-0000
http://dpi.wi.gov/sig/dm-acadachmt.html
Mickey, your numbers are for ALL employees in a given vocation, not UNION employees only.
Newsflash: Union employees cost more & skew the numbers. when you include the non-union education workers, you lower the average wage.
Nice try however, never let the facts get in the way of making a liberal feel good about themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz724SAyw0k
Live Free or Die is a Tea Party news organization. The news agency has an agenda against that of teachers (something which it explicitly states on it's website and in the caption below the video) and has exactly 0% credibility. In argument and debate you are not allowed to present biased sources as evidence except in very rare cases. If your point here was to show that this is how Tea Partiers or the right see teacher's unions that would be one thing. If your point here, however, is to say that this youtube report is accurate you are wrong and are presenting biased/non-credible information as if it is fact. You must learn the difference between opinion and fact before you start engaging in argument and debate.
You are really so lazy that you can't click on each individual item and read through the PDF???? It breaks it down between public union, private non-union, public non-union, and private union. FTR not many teachers w/in the state of Wisconsin teach outside of the union. It's about 80% that teach w/in it. That's not enough of a statistical influence to skew the results unless you have huge anomalies on the positive or negative end. So unless non-union are being paid 15k a year on the negative end and unions 200k on the positive, these results would not be skewed. I certainly will give you that they give the statistical average as opposed to the median, but this is why you have to click and read through each individual PDF. There is also more information on the main page that you can access regarding the difference between union and non-union. Don't be lazy when reading statistics from the BLS.
Yeah I just looked- the statistical range is 75k at the highest end and 30k on the lowest. Not a high enough skew to make the results positive or negative in one direction or the other.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20030623ar01p1.htm
www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1990/06/art2full.pdf
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.t02.htm median weekly wage of
union workers nationally
Percentage of labor force unionized by trade (apologies here I am wrong, it's less than
50%) http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.t03.htm
Cross sectional: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.t04.htm
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/union2.t05.htm By state
But wait! There's more:
How unions affect businesses and economics http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20050616ar01p1.htm
Cost of employment (union and non; public and private)http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ecec.nr0.htm
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/eci.nr0.htm Compensation cost and ratio
Occupational statistics on teachers (nationally) http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos318.htm
I would also like to add that you chastise me for listing the average salary of teachers in Wisconsin, yet the very source you use to rebut that lists the average salary of teachers in Wisconsin (it does not distinguish between union and non union). So you even haven't read over your own statistics.
Once again, we see that for the trolls, Ideological Soundness trumps objective reality every time!
Konabob is right.
Unions serve no real purpose today other than to keep wages and benefits artificially higher than what the market has determined. Why have all new auto plants been opened in the South? To avoid the UAW.
It is simple economics. If labor costs are higher than the market determines they should be, after taking into account all other factors that make up production, then workers will be laid off or their compensation will be decreased. The “greedy capitalists” aren’t the culprits for wage pressure. It is ultimately the consumers of products who are the drivers of wages, not management. If “management” has a higher cost of production than their competitors, they will go out of business. Wages are an important factor of production.
Unions actually harm the economy. Artificially high wages were one of the factors that drove GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy.
Unions protect poorly performing workers, and they usually push for larger staffing levels than required. Unions typically discourage the use of inexpensive volunteers in government activities, and they create a more bureaucratic and inefficient workplace.
They also prevent competition by urging union-supporting Congressmen to pass legislation to prevent free trade in order to protect less efficient US industries and their workers. Ultimately higher prices are forced on consumers who have “voted” every time for lower cost goods.
Public service unions have a good deal. There are no consumers or competition with which to discipline their inefficient and wasteful labor practices. Their mostly Democratic supporters pass legislation that favor them and they let “tomorrow” take care of itself.
Unfortunately tomorrow has come for these union-friendly fiscally irresponsible states.
I already addressed this response above and no he is not right, but why stop there when facts are inconvenient? Sighs. I love it when people claim "it's simple economics" when they don't even understand how economies work (especially at state and federal levels).
Ok, I'll just take your word for it. Sighs. Can you give us an economics lesson then? I'm trying to understand how taking my tax money and letting underperfoming workers pad their retirement is good sound economics.
My tax money, my tax money, mine, MINE, MINE ALL MIIIIINE!!!
Here is an all encompassing link to the MacIver news site.
http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/03/average-mps-teacher-compensation-tops-100kyear/#comments
The facts & figures come from public records & public test results.
They are available from many sites, don't bother to blame MacIver as a right wing shill, the video of the hearings does not lie.
You only need to google "$100,005 MPS" & you will have pages of sources to choose from, pick the one you enjoy.
If you still can't stomach the FACT that the average MPS teachers salary is over $100k, then I believe you may be a fundamentalist and beyond any rational discourse.
Mickey, i'm sure by now you have seen the video of Deb Wegner of MPS stating what the figures are. How is any 3rd party report you mention going to be more accurate than the school districts own figures?????
The BLS is not a 3rd party. Do you even know what the BLS is? Or the US Census for that matter? Or the Department of Education? These are the sites I gave you- they are what's called primary sources. The sites you give are what are called secondary sources. Please read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view
Your source doesn't follow any of this- your site is a right wing blog that is bent on lying in order to misinform people who are not educated well enough to go to the primary sources. They rely on feeding you misinformation with a biased slant in an attempt to sway your understanding and perceptions of reality. The website is not considered a reliable source. If you go to the actual DOE webpage, the BLS webpage, or the Census webpage they verify that the average salary is a little over 50k for teachers who've been working for more than 15 years. Teachers under 15 years make 30k or less. Teachers over 25 years make 60k-75k.
http://www.ehow.com/how_4696769_validate-research-sources.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Douglas_debate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_argument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
What would Rachel have said if the GOP walked out on the health care vote to delay its passage???????
Losing an election has consequences, the 14 cowards need to man-up & accept the new reality.
To Pull a Palin - Use the phrase "man-up" anytime, anywhere in any context.
So do you disagree with my point?
What would micro geek have thought of the GOP if they delayed passage of the health care bill with these tactics?
I don't know how you can mistake a good-natured jibe as disagreeing with your "point".
No doubt that this tactic may come back to bite the missing 14 in the arse. But, are you kidding me? The GOP has failed to officially "show up" for anything the past two years. Repeat after me---no, no, no, no, no, no. Sound familiar? That's the sound of the GOP mantra. Good God, they can't even get two of their knuckleheads to show up for swearing in.
And the GOP was offered AMPLE opportunity to offer an alternative to the healthcare LAW. And they didn't. They failed. Sounds like the governors in question will not even welcome negotiation by the collective body of legislators, let alone Unions.
And, in my humble opinion, you did not have a point, you had a question directed to Rachel, and microgeek will not be so presumptuous to speak for Rachel.
The reichwing set the record for filibusters from 2008 to the present obstructing every bill the Dems presented but in your neocon mind they were 'Great Americans'..Correct? I reckon the chickens have come home to roost.
they said no to things because america didn't want it. They were doing what the people who voted them in asked them to do.
Sorry. Not buying it. This has been the GOP's MO every time they were in the minority. Filibusterpalooza. The people overwhelmingly elected President Barack Obama to make the changes he's quietly been making with or without the GOP's "help."
While you guys are doing a great job of explaining the reasons for union-busting in all the various states, you seem to be missing the wonderfully interesting information that, after being voted out of office in 2001, Rep. John Kasich became a part of Fox News from 2001-2007 while at the same time, Kasich was part of Lehman Brothers, managing a hedge fund, and selling ever so many state and local governments on the benefits of investing their pension fund money with Lehman Brothers. Of course, Kasich lost his job in 2007when Lehman Brothers went broke. Several state pension funds got into trouble, as well.
The Ohio Governor has left a public trail of all this, why doesn't SOMEONE start bringing this out before he manages to destroy our state? Oh, one more little fact of interest, he raised the salary of HIS chief of staff to equal that of Bill Daley and just about double that of the previous governor's chief of staff.
Please, just a little yellow journalism toward Kasich. And don't forget that he has no respect for the law as we can tell from his comments about the "Idiot!" policeman who gave him a ticket - 3 years ago, and he obviously still carries a grudge.
This was brought up during the election. I am positive I saw commercials with the facts u write. People didn't care.
The right wing got the white people in Ohio so crazed and upset. They were afraid of Black people getting reparations and the Mexicans coming over the border headed for Ohio.
Our "progressive" media was running around chasing Palin face book ramblings and worried about the loser witch in Delaware. They were also blaming PBO for all the worlds ills along with the right wing.
oh well
Love to see the national teamsters union refuse to truck anything into the State of Wisconsin until the Gov. sits down and negotiates.
I want your station to make a huge point out of the fact that if cutting the budget on the backs of the teacher's and other public employees is so important, then the first item of business should start with the government employees at the top. The govenor's of Ohio, New Jersey, Wisconson, etc., together with the legislatures should take a big pay cut, change their insurance coverage to be similar to the rest of the work force, and cut their retirement funds significantly. Then and only then, can the rest of us even consider talking about what they want to do. Their benefits are usually better than anyones, and they are also supposed to be working for us.
Hmmmm. Not so long ago, Gov. Daniel's predicted that IL businesses would relocate to IN as a result of the tax hike enacted by Gov. Quinn. Seems his crystal ball may have a crack in it, with the IN government running to IL as a result of his actions. That's ok. Keep IL tourism thriving, boys and girls. Lord knows we need it.
And speaking of the Harry Potter slant to all of this, Ms. Conaway, you weren't doing a bit of foreshadowing yourself with the recent Maddowblog post that sparked a debate about labor unions, were you? Clever girl, you are, indeed. One more reason to love Rachel Maddow--she rounded up all the smart people to work for TRMS.
Have fun in Kansas. Have some......corn....or something?
Comment # 15 deleted. Karen FL, this is not the place to organize protesters.
It is the testimony of the school districts own budget director Deb Wegner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz724SAyw0k
The salaries are a matter of public record.
Here it is from The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal, a decidedly left-wing paper.
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataondemand/33534649.html?appSession=962838047851063
Dude I linked the BLS statistic, the Census statistic, and the IRS statistic. Your sources are known as secondary sources and they are opinion based, not fact based. The FACTS (and the PRIMARY sources) say that the average salary ranges from 30-50k for k-12 teachers depending A. on how long they've been working for the district B. what grade they teach C. what subject they teach and D. what credentials they have (I.E. those with a degree in let's say mathematics get paid more than those with a degree in childhood education). Their salaries are, as you say, a matter of public record. Which is why it baffles me that you won't actually go to the websites that record that information- you are, instead, relying on hear-say to give you information. Sighs. Their salaries are on par with that of the general public and the private sector in Wisconsin. The most you could argue is that post-secondary and secondary teachers within the top 10% make too much, and they make 70-80k/year. To be fair, if you were to compare them with the top 10% of the private sector...well that wouldn't even be a contest as to whom made the bigger salary. Again sighs.
Konabob, I did view the video, thanks for the link. I am insufficiently familiar with the structure of the Milwaukee School District to validate her numbers from the salary database; when I tried to get data, all my results were for administrators and principals, not teachers. So I was unable to confirm the data for myself.
But I did start looking for bona fide analyses of public vs. private compensation, since that was the apparent subject of the youtube video you linked. Here is an interesting study published last year, looking at private vs. public employee compensation. Title of the study is "Comparing Public and Private Sector Compensation over 20 Years."
http://www.slge.org/vertical/Sites/%7bA260E1DF-5AEE-459D-84C4-876EFE1E4032%7d/uploads/%7b03E820E8-F0F9-472F-98E2-F0AE1166D116%7d.PDF
The major conclusions of the study were:
My conclusion is that comparing average teacher salaries in Milwaukee to the average income of all private workers in the city, as the youtube video does, is comparing apples to bananas. It is an invalid comparison and serves only to inflame.
Anyway you look at it, $100,005 is a LOT of apples.
But $56,500 is (are) the only apples that the teachers get to feed their families with. #GrammarFail
And just where do you think the other $43,505 ends up?
But more important, from whom does it come?
The fact is that these union teachers cost too much.
They are simply overpaid.
The "other $43,505" - break it down for us, then I will tell you "where it ends up". Some "benefits" are only funny money, like sick pay and vacation pay. They cost the boss nothing, since the employee is paid regardless. Benefits for health insurance go to the insurance companies and health care providers. Benefits for retirement are invested, so they go back into the business cycle.
Remember the reason the union members have these benefits is because they chose a profession that had a union which gave them collective bargaining power. You could make the same choice. This is why employees want unions, so they have some say in their employment situation against management, whether it is public or private.
Konabob, you and I simply disagree. Good day.
And yet 93% of American workers manage to get by @ non-union jobs.
The unions are a too vocal, too powerful minority.
You can't reason with someone who wants to listen to their own facts, mightbe. I provided over half a dozen links comparing everything from age and years worked to union to non union to state to national pay and Konabob still doesn't want to listen. Even here in this statement "And yet 93% of American workers manage to get by @ non-union jobs." Even that statistic is wrong. You can't win when the facts don't matter.
Yet another example of how Ideological Soundness is everything and objective reality doesn't matter at all!
This is when I find myself asking why we don't go full monty. 93% of Americans arne't in a union? Why not 98%? Why not 99.9%? Why not all Americans, but Bob? Why 100,000 a year? Why not 200,000? Is 200 just too unbelievable? Why stop with their benefits packages? Why not bitch about the days they have off? Why not complain about teacher's working conditions being too cozy? If we're going to complain about budgets why not complain about all the money it costs to educate kids? If we stopped doing that altogether it would dramatically reduce the deficit. And if we did that we could give more tax cuts to the wealthy! Why stop there? Why not lower teacher's wages down to 10k/yr. It's not like teachers have bachelor's degrees, master's degrees, or doctorate's. It's not like your average teacher has worked between 15-20 years and the 56k/yr is reflecting that time spent serving. Why stop just on the other end of crazy, why not go completely insane???
Mickey, I think the problem with people like this is that they are wired primarily for emotional reactions. Facts, even false facts, are useful only for reinforcing their gut reactions. If information serves no other purpose then accuracy is irrelevant. As long as something information-like helps confirm their feelings about something, then it's valid even if completely wrong.
There was some weirdness that happened roughly 20 years ago in the anti-Mormon part of the religious right. An anti-Mormon named Ed Decker, along with some others, started claiming that Mormons were conscious worshipers of Satan and offered as part of their 'proof' the made-up 'fact' that the spires of the Salt Lake City temple were intended to re-crucify Jesus upon his second coming to Earth. Never mind that there are six spires, implying a Jesus that would have to be some sort of tentacled elder god, the whole thesis was based on such obviously blatant lies that even people generally sympathetic to anti-Mormonism piled on. His only real defense was to insist that lies were OK if they convinced people how evil Mormonism is. Of course, the lies only served to convince people what a lying, unethical moron Ed Decker was. But Decker carried on regardless.
So, you carry on correcting the false facts, Mickey. Just don't bother addressing the purveyors of false facts. They don't care, but we do.
I hear a lot about balancing the budget. I hear a lot about the middle class, teachers, police officers and others making sacrifices to help government balance the budget. I was just wondering..... our elected officials are paid quite well by the working class in this country. Are THEY willing to take a pay cut? Are they willing to pay more for their health care? Are THEY willing to cut back on their pensions? Our elected officials have an excellent benefit package. Why don't they give a little to? I know a lot of teachers and let me tell you, THEY are not overpaid. A teacher makes $28 to $48 thousand dollars a year, Maybe I'm wrong but.... that's not being overpaid when we entrust our country's future generations to them. If each elected official in this country would take a 10% pay cut... do the math, it would take a big chunk out of the deficit.
Well, exactly. We're supposed to resent the teachers who are paid tens of thousands for educating each generation but are told to worship the corporate racketeers who sponge up hundreds of millions doing nothing of any apparent actual worth.
Now that the facts prove the compensation, lets hear all the reasons why they are worth it despite the fact that the schools are failing.
The ability to get rid of bad teachers without union interference is reason enough to take back the power that they have obviously extorted from the politicians.
People work better when they have to stand on their own merits.
Here's a fact for ya..
There are five states in this country that outlawed collective bargaining for teachers. Here is how they rank in act/sat scores compaired to the rest of the nation:
South Carolina 50th
North Carolina 49th
Georgia 48th
Texas 47th
Virginia 44th
And as for Wisconsin? They ranked 2nd. I reckon those five states got what they paid for.
So is it your opinion that the budget director of MPS lied during her testimony to the budget panel?
You have seen the clip of her stating the compensation under oath & still you want to find another source showing a lower level of compensation.
Blaming the site that posted the clip is a red herring, it is sworn testimony.
If we can't believe the districts own numbers, who can we believe?
You can see the list of the salaries & benefits on the Milwaukee papers website.
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/dataondemand/33534649.html?appSession=962838047851063
Unless the newspaper, the MPS budget director & the Mac Iver institute are all trying to mislead the public, the fact is clear.
The average MPS teachers compensation IS $100,005
Sighs. Someone needs to learn what biased editing is.
Mickey...: I'm sure someone knows what it is and deliberately uses it.
Well it's just mind boggling. You provide someone the statistics from the US Census, the BLS, and the DOE and he insists his right wing blogger, right wing think tank, and a you tube video are solid evidence. you then try to explain to someone what a primary and secondary source are, what biased sources are, how to validate sources, etc and they STILL want to believe that the right wing blogger, right wing think-tank, and you tube video are empirical. At this point it's just DNFT. This is someone who has no interest in reality and you can't do bleep if someone just wants to shut out any other reality but the one they've created. What also annoys me here is he claims "red herring" for stating he needs to provide evidence for his statements. Name one debate judge that wouldn't have voted him out already? God. O well.
The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel is the paper of record in southeastern Wisconsin, not a right wing blogger.
NOTE: Their salary database was compiled by the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction from information provided by individual school districts.
Biased editing???
Watch the clip again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz724SAyw0k
The parts when she CLEARLY states the amounts has not been edited.
Unless you think someone dubbed in new audio, but the lips match the words.
The evidence is indisputable, its public record for goodness sake!
If you still think they are worth this level of compensation make THAT point but don't muddy the waters with reports that don't reflect the public record.
As I thought, when asked a direct question:
"So is it your opinion that the budget director of MPS lied during her testimony to the budget panel?"
You are silent.
Because you can't argue with a FACT.
You want to continue the illusion the unions are needed.
There are thousands of pages of labor law to protect workers rights AND there are thousands of lawyers to protect those rights.
Unions are no longer needed..unless your making money off mandated dues of course.
Mickey Mouser has run off to Illinois & is unable to respond..................
If they really make that much there might be something to talk about.
We have had to many county/city employees retiring as millionaires, the bennys are killing us as much as the paychecks.
tuff 2 argue with the video
Rachel, I love your show, you are the best. I'm a Wis. resident and support our 14 Dems completely. You should know that our dear Gov. Walker never graduated college. How is that for a union buster.
my husband is a union boilermaker. he deserves every penny he makes in the dirty disgusting long hour back breaking job he does to keep america happy when the come home and flip on their switches. we will never be rich or barely break even but his butt is there every day at work...i highly doubt the governor of wisconsin could ever walk a mile in his shoes!
But he might steal them anyway.
This is my first time to respond to a blog. I can't write as eloquently as the others but feel just as passionately towards these issues.
A few years ago my community voted in a nurses union and then it was never heard from again. I've often wondered who paid who off to keep them quiet, but I'm sure it affected my career in the health care field. I'm now a student in an American Studies Program so I can be more informed about this national union issue.
Thanks for the insightful and informative comments--this blog is very inspiring to a new student and longtime liberal.
Not that he is interested in listening but I sent the following to Gov. Walker in Wisconsin:
Governor Walker,
We are part of a democracy. And what is that? A democracy involves allowing the people to have a real voice in what happens to them. In the state of Wisconsin, that involves electing the individuals who will represent us in Madison in the state Government. But if you really think about it, a union, at its heart, is a democratic organization. A union allows an individual to have a voice in his / her environment. Without democratic institutions, whether government or other types of democratic institutions, the individual has no voice. Without democratic institutions, those in power can create environments impossible for the individual to live in. Those in power can be a unit of government or a business. You, Governor Walker, are attempting to remove an element of a democracy. Is it any wonder that many individuals are upset? Is it any wonder that they are protesting? Those 14 senators realize that you are trying to remove something taht is just as important as our ability to vote in elections to hopefully provide a better pollitical environment. Yes, Governor Walker, they are truly working for us right now since they understand that it is inherently wrong to destroy democratic institutions. A question then: What other elements of a democracy do you hope to destroy?
Democracy is: Rule by Omnipotent Majority. In a Democracy, The Individual, and any group of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority. It is a case of Majority-over-Man.
The majority has spoken and agrees with The Governor. Therefore under a democracy which you seem to believe in has granted the wish's of the people within it.
We aren't a democracy. We are a democratic-republic. Our government has always been designed specifically to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. As a conservative I would have assumed you'd know this, being that at the time the Constitution was written the "minority" was considered to be the wealthy.
I know we aren't, but opposedtowalker seems to think so.
Let's put mickey mouser in proper perspective.
Mickey said:
Mickey Mouser
I am honestly asking here- why is it bad for the president to be Muslim?
You are CLUELESS.
When you get a taste of the real world you will get rid of your Che Guevara posters & evolve into a conservative.
I got this interesting correlation from a friend with a degree in Public Health (and two other advanced degrees):
Currently only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators and deem it illegal: South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, Texas and Virginia.
State Ranking on ACT/SAT scores:
South Carolina - 50th
North Carolina - 49th
Georgia - 48th
Texas - 47th
Virginia - 44th
Wisconsin - 2nd.
My friend went on to state of course that correlation is not causation - but it will be interesting to see what happens to ACT/SAT scores in those states that change their conditions regarding allowing or disallowing collective bargaining for educators in the next few years. We might then be able to speak of causation.
I intend to post more about this below/after the next WI related story because I fear that few will see it here.
Also I am afraid that it is stiring up a can of worms, so I invite the site's censors to delete this if you think it better for the USA if you do so.
I see a parallel between Walker's plan to sell off WI owned power plants and what almost happened in Iraq in 2003.
After the Bush admin. invaded Iraq the Bush admin. created the Coalition Provisional Authority. The Bush admin. staffed it with inexperienced righties. Bush appointed Paul Bremmer to head it. Bremmer did 3 stupid things. I'll skip over the 1st 2. The 3rd (and far less publicized, you will have to dig a little to confirm it) was to announce a plan to privatize the Iraqi economy. They wanted to bring the blessings of free enterprise capitalism to Iraq. But, the plan was to sell off the assets of the Iraqi gov. to the highest bidder. Note that Sadam's Iraq was a socialist nation, so there were a lot of such assets (power plants, transmission lines, clean water plants, waste water plants, bridges, hospitals, clinics, schools, and on and on). Note also that the plan excluded the oil wells and pipe lines, etc., at least at 1st.
The Iraqi responce was outrage. They saw that mostly these assets would be bought by foreigners, because the only Iraqi people that had any money were outlawed Baath party ex-members.
Now, Walker wants the power to sell the state of WI's assets at his discression. After he does this what can the people of WI do legally to get them back? If they recall him, can they take back the property?