A columnist with the Kalamazoo Gazette takes serious umbrage with our reporting on Benton Harbor, Michigan, this week. Julie Mack writes that the facts get in the way of a good story. Ms. Mack notes, as did we, that the golf development there preceded the emergency manager -- she says the two are separate stories. She also says you could see what's happening there as being for the betterment of Benton Harbor, which is a mess, and which we also reported. In the clip above, we reported that State Representative Al Pscholka told us much the same.
Part of what makes this such a compelling story is that it's filled with very difficult questions. Ms. Mack writes:
What's worse for Benton Harbor: A financial manager with dictatorial powers or an utterly dysfunctional city government? Are Benton Harbor residents better served by 90 acres of parkland, or 68 acres and a new source of revenue for cash-strapped city coffers? Is it insensitive to build an upscale development in a downtrodden community, as Maddow suggests? Or does it show that the business community hasn't turned its back on Benton Harbor?
No one disputes that Benton Harbor fell on hard times a long time ago and has not gotten back up. For us, the story of Michigan's emergency manager law remains one of government overreach. The question, as Ms. Mack suggests, is whether taking away the power of local elected officials -- and by extension the will of the voters -- is an improvement. The comment threads from you folks on this continue to be amazing. I recommend starting here, and then moving through the Michigan tag.
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Whatever the merits of this particular act, it is the very first shot fired in the Michigan's Republican govt's war against impoverished minority democratic voters. In Sun Tzu terms, it is a direct attack against democrats where union stripping had been an indirect attack against Democratic fund-raising. Instead of gerrymandering to disrupt democratic districts, you just make them disappear.
I was actually going to send you the link to Julie Mack's opinion as I live in Kalamazoo now, but am from Benton Harbor and still have family residing there. I was appalled to read that she had written, "What's worse for Benton Harbor: A financial manager with dictatorial powers or an utterly dysfunctional city government?" (italics mine) Please respond to this Rachel and keep this story alive.
A Dictator is a dictator and a Tyrant is a tyrant only if the will of the people allows it.
So if you HAD to choose, what would it be - a manager with dicatatorial powers OR the dysfunctional city government. We know that the latter hasn't done much on the positive side for the city, sooooo....
I choose throwing out the dysfunctional government at the ballot box, have criminal charges pursued if warranted, and a new government elected by the people. Like I said, this imposing a non-elected dictator is incredibly dangerous in a way that the cure is far worse than the disease. Maybe Obama should get the power to remove the governors and legislatures of states with budget deficits and appoint a dem campaign donor to run the state as a dictatorship. After all, by Snyder's reckoning, the governments must have been incompetent/corrupt, causing the budget problems they face now.
It could work Uffdaguy, but we would have to start with the "state" that has the world record deficit - the federal govt :)
Beautifully said Uffdaguy. The third logical step after Obama removing governors and state legislators is what we are already doing around the world: removing leaders we don't like, or who don't serve our economic interests. And look what that's done to and for everyone involved.
But Skip, if we remove the head of the federal government, who gets to be the dictator that "fixes" things? Donald Trump?
My point is that we all want some kind of savior to save us from the consequences of our own actions, but Superman isn't out there. We're broke because of greed, gullibility, stupidity and demagoguery. Who saves us from that?
Regime change begins at home.
"...to save us from the consequences of our own actions..."
Unfortunately, I feel less and less that those "actions" on the federal level are mine or any regular person's. They seem to do what they want even if it is 180 degrees opposite than what they promised while asking for my vote.
To me most politicians are inept, ineffecient, self-centered and power hungry. It is NOT an honorable profession anymore. I put it on the same level as a used car salesman (no offense to those that really are used car salesmen)
Ooop....maybe I better say used car salesPERSON. How silly we have become.
Skip, I do believe that those actions on the federal level are DIRECT consequences of our actions. The government, at any level, from town to county to state to federal, can only do what we ALLOW it to do, what we give it the power to do. How did we get into this deficit? Enough people bought the line that we could cut taxes, increase military spending, fight two wars, and STILL come out in the black! And enough people bought the supply side scam not once, not twice, but THREE times. OK, the first time it sounded pretty goofy, but I can forgive people who thought we should at least give it a try. But when it failed miserably, causing big deficits and unemployment, we should have learned our lesson, but NO, we had to go ahead and figure that if we kept bashing our heads against the wall for long enough, magical unicorns would appear instead of nasty concussions.
Yes, it's easy to blame the politicians for our troubles, but they lie because they know that not only can they get away with it, but they are actually rewarded for it. Set the lowest possible standards for a candidate, and the lowest forms of life will flock to be elected. Set the standards a bit higher, like asking for competence and honesty and intelligence, and hold all the candidates to that standard, and you'll get a better class of candidates.
How did corporations come to rule America? Because we LET them! We were too busy being distracted by meaningless debates on gay marriage, flag burning amendments and death panels to even see what was actually going on behind the curtain. For years now, legislators from Congress on down have accepted legislation written in whole or part by corporations and lobbyists, and then paid to pass it with no real questioning of why we needed a particular law. As long as American Idol and Jersey Shore were on the tube keeping us entertained and distracted, no one paid attention, at least not in big enough numbers to do anything about it. Our media moved away from journalism as the network news divisions became part of the networks entertainment divisions, putting ratings above journalism. They now report what the corporate owners want reported, in a way they wanted it reported.
Forgive me if I am coming across as cynical or bitter, but this country has gone into a downward spiral, and yet now we are being told that we can pull out of it by diving even faster into the ground. This from the very people who helped put us in this position in the first place, people we enabled to do it.
Disaster capitalism exploits bad situations and difficulties to infringe on rights and quality of life with oppressive "free market" structures.
Municipalities all over are facing major revenue shortfalls, and many (even out in rich Long Island) have emergency financial take-overs because of legal and financial misdeeds by elected councils and poor managers.
The KEY difference here is that other emergency managers don't have absolute dictatorial powers to remake non-financial policies that could seriously change the shape of a community.
It is one thing to try to come in and clean up the books. It's another to use the need for help to come in and assume dictatorial policy control and usurp self-governance.
With the abdication and absence of the once locally-distributed watchdog press, you will see more states and municipalities with homegrown corruption, contract and bond bribery scandals, missing pension money, all kinds of crap that happens when nobody is guarding the henhouse.
Ordinary citizens don't want to go to those meetings that the public affairs reporters used to attend.
Now no one attends. No one checks the books. No one checks that the county property assessments haven't been artificially inflated while someone takes kickbacks. No one notices that inspectors have been paid off to look the other way.
Nobody notices the rebirth of a fully-formed political machine on par with the heydays of Daley or Boss Tweed, growing like mushrooms, right under our noses.
I live in Snohomish county Washington, here and in the city of Everett the councils have been packed with land developers since 1983. Build, build, build has been the mantra ever since. Our infrastructure is among the worst in the nation, we have been the second highest taxed county in nation, services-when available are reliably punitive to the poor. This is the kind of world I see "Me First" consevratisum being proposed as the norm.
I can't believe someone would actually suggest a financial manager with dictatorial powers is an acceptable solution to the financial woes in Benton Harbor or any town. It truly baffles me. Representative democracy is not a choice; you either believe in it or you do not. You cannot believe in it only if it works well.
The one thing that keeps coming to mind to me is how the Wiemar Republic in Germany arose from its financial issues in the 1930's. Fascism certainly worked wonders in that regard. Should we embrace anti-Liberal (capital L, not the modern definition of the word) ideas if they will fix the financial problems facing us?
A dysfunctional elected government is preferable to a functional authoritarian government. We don't have a representative democracy because it is efficient. In fact, if you read the Federalist Papers, it becomes clear that many of the Founders preferred this government because it was inefficient.
I just realized I made an error. "Representative democracy is not a choice; you either believe in it or you do not," should read, "Representative democracy is not conditional; you either believe in it or you do not."
Read the articles in the local press:
http://heraldpalladium.com/articles/2011/04/17/local_news/4375778.txt
The city government is corrupt and hated. The locals support its removal.
So would you support fascism if it got rid of the corruption and people liked it?
Fascism has nothing to do with this situation and your post above shows you do not know what the word means: "the Wiemar Republic in Germany arose from its financial issues in the 1930s".
Amen!
@Covah
Are you trying to say fascism wasn't the reason Germany resolved some of its financial issues? How exactly do I not understand what the word means? It is unclear from what you posted.
To clarify, I am not saying Benton Harbor has suddenly become fascist. I am simply illustrating that there are many solutions to financial issues, some of which work well but are usually considered extreme. Representative democracy is not known for being efficient and therefore you're more likely to have financial issues, but that's not why we have representative democracy. If we simply want to have efficient and functional government all of the time, then we shouldn't have representative democracy.
From John Milton's 'Paradise Lost'- as Lucifer is being tossed into the pit of fire, 'Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven'. (example only, no religious persuasion insinuated)
"A dysfunctional elected government is preferable to a functional authoritarian government."
I would suggest this be amended to read: "A dysfunctional elected government is preferable to a functional authoritarian government whether elected or unelected."
Weimar was, in fact, succeeded and put to death by an elected coalition in the Reichstag, and, in Italy, Mussolini was elected as well.
And the Trojan Horse was welcomed into city of Troy.
I'd love to find out more about the Founders preferring inefficient government... I'll do some Googling but interested.
@covar - i would also like to add that most people in benton harbor don't exactly have their voices represented via the HP.
everyone knows our paper is a joke of a paper, and everyone knows that the paper works for the interest of the businesse
Corinne is free to present evidence that contradicts statements made by locals in their own newspaper.
Covah, the problem is that, to a point, everything you say is true. However, if the majority of the residents hate the elected officials, then they should be voting out those elected officials or, if possible, seeking other remedies, such as impeachment and recall.
The part that is true is that "locals" may hate their own government--however, that plural in English is very imprecise. Should two people overrule the majority that voted? Beyond that, the statements in "their own newspaper" is subject to editorial bias--if the newspaper has a conservative bias (like, say, Fox Noise), then moderate and liberal voices won't be heard.
The counter to your statement is that there were "locals" who spoke up at their own local forums and made their voices heard. Should the ones that send letters to the editor that get printed outweigh the people who showed up and voiced their concerns in person?
Creideiki, your remark about what the local papers really WANT the citizens to know, is one of the problems that people are not getting the truth. My local county area paper is in a very Red district. Nowhere do they ever list the votes of our GOP DC representatives, but do print columns and columns of what they say and lie about as truth. They blabber on about what they are doing FOR the people of their district, but the votes that do damage TO the citizens are never posted for all to see and help them make intelligent voter decisions. Example: There were 150 Pro-Union, Pro-working family citizens exercising their constitutional right to give their opinion in front of a GOP rep. office. The paper did report that. However, they gave more paragraphs to the Tea Party counter protest. I found it interesting that the reporter did not count how many TP protestors were there, so I emailed the reporter. The TP attendance was TEN (10). I asked her why she did not report that, as the article inferred greater attendance by the TP's. She said it didn't seem important. There you have it. Skewed reporting favoring CONServatives and a minority bunch of VWI (Voting While Ignorant)-- voting against their best interests and also skewing my life and future.
A dictatorship no matter what is NEVER a good thing!
What if some cabal of crackers ran ripped off a southern town and the feds stepped in? How about when Eisenhower sent federal troops to face down the National Guard called in by Governor Faubus?
I repeat, a dictatorship under any circumstances is never a good idea!
Now THAT I'm not entirely sure about. If a town, city or county was messed up enough to warrant it, I could see the state govt coming in to sort stuff out. In order to do so, ordinary business, procedures and representation would need to be suspended. Suspended. Temporarily. NOT ABOLISHED. Actions done would be more on the order of intensive repair to a house. If it was necessary to raze the house, it would be to replace it with something better. As opposed to kicking out the home owners selling the contents of the house as an estate sale at fire sale prices, leveling the house and turning it into a parking lot or quickie mart. Privatization is an invitation to corruption.
Snyder and therefore the EFMs have absolutely no incentive to rehabilitate and empower economically distressed communities which tend to vote democrat. It makes more sense, from their perspective, to regard them as low hanging fruit with which they can reward their corporate backers.
If EFMs were sincere in their stated purpose, infrastructure repair and rehabilitation would be the order of the day as well as YES, I'M GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN! A DOMESTIC MARSHALL PLAN! A small scale one for the community, bringing manufacturing and jobs back which would economically revitalize the area. Snyder and EFMs are much more like organ harvesters than surgeons.
Yes, not abolished, I agree. Get people back on their feet, but do you really think anyone cares about the community? No, this is about money. This town may be a mess but if they were really concerned about its welfare they would include the local politicians in this decision. Are they refurbishing schools, hospitals, roads etc? Helping with the crime rate? Really how many poor people are going to go out golfing?
I don't trust them one bit.
That's Dr. Maddow's angle: Poor black town government wiped out by right-wing dictator and corporate Whirlpool stooge to seize cherished public park and make it into exclusive golf course for wealthy whites.
But the evidence tells a different story: Hated, corrupt small-town government rips off locals who cheer its removal. Private funds go towards developing derelict public wasteland, improving tax base.
Removing the events from the context of past events does little to help us understand how the Benton Harbor government got so "corrupt" (the definition of which is usually in the eyes of the beholder). The GOP thinks that Dems are corrupt and vice versa. Americans think that other nations are more corrupt than we ourselves are. Compared to Mussolini's reign, the Ancient Roman Emperor Caligula was corrupt (well, you can't get much more corrupt than that latter one).
It just pains me the extent to which people with huge logs in their eyes love to point out the specks in others'. I know I'm not perfect, but I can spot a big glaring example of hypocrisy when it rears it's fugly head.
"The Benton Harbor government got so 'corrupt', the definition of which is usually in the eyes of the beholder."
Try reading the local newspaper linked above for the "eyes of the beholder". Corruption is not in the eyes of the beholder anyway, it is a matter of law.
You say the locals hated their local government, and cheered when their powers were suspended. Exactly WHO voted the people in then. That is what democracy is...VOTING for your government, local or not. It's NOT this assumption of local powers by people NOT chosen by the local populace.
Good for you! And I will agree with you no matter how many times you say it because you are correct. Cheers!
But President Eisenhhower did not send in troops to abrogate and take over the powers of the ELECTED town officials. President Eisenhower sent in the federal guard to PROTECT SMALL, INNOCENT, CHILDREN FROM THE BELLIGERENT, COWARDLY, RACIST CROWD THAT WOULD GATHER TO TAUNT AND HARASS THESE CHILDREN.
Comparison failure; try again. I was THERE!
You should not! The repugs have done nothing but lie, lie, lie, since time immemorial. I don't trust them either - and never will! I have never believed them and I never will; and I haven't been wrong so far!
Covah and Don Q.: So . . . would you have a problem with the federal government (at the sole discretion of the President) stepping in and taking over a state if that's what the majority of its citizens want?
And who are YOU- Mr. Governor? - since No Body in Benton Harbor VOTED FOR YOU - FOR ANY Benton Harbor Office!
It's the choice between tough love and being punished (for what?) or freedom. "Do as I say not as I do".
What you forgot to say is that the Emergency Manager in Benton Harbor was appointed by the Democratic Governor Granholm. That is something progressive will not tell you. Read the entire article in the Kalamazoo news. If you are going to pander for TRMS get the facts straight.
Wrong is wrong, no matter the party, as I believe my previous posts have said.
How come this blog did not attack the Democratic Governor, but waited until a Republican was elected. The reason has to do that TMRS and all talking heads are in it for the money. The more they rile up the people, the more audience and the more money they make. IF FOX offered more money to a talking head from MSNBC they would sing from any perch you want them to and the same from the other side. It is not ideology is eyeballs..
I have no idea if Granholm was ever attacked on here, so I can't answer your question. All I can do is reiterate that wrong is wrong, no matter the party. Any political party that claims that appointing a petty dictator fits in any manner into a democratic government is little better than a bunch of fascist wannabes. What's the point of voting if you know that someone can toss out the person you elected if someone higher in the food chain decides they want to toss them out and hand out a dictatorship to a good buddy?
Oh for goodness sake. Dr. Maddow DID mention Gov. Granholm and her connections to this situation. More than once. On air.
Can't we get any quality trolls around here? These ones can't even construct a basic argument...
"But President Eisenhhower did not send in troops to abrogate and take over the powers of the ELECTED town officials." That's right. Governor Faubus was an elected state official. Elsewhere I have listed elected town officials imprisoned or under investigation by state officials.
"President Eisenhower sent in the federal guard to PROTECT SMALL, INNOCENT, CHILDREN FROM THE BELLIGERENT, COWARDLY, RACIST CROWD THAT WOULD GATHER TO TAUNT AND HARASS THESE CHILDREN."
Fat chance. I suppose the National Guard sent by Faubus had nothing to do with anything.
"Would you have a problem with the federal government (at the sole discretion of the President) stepping in and taking over a state if that's what the majority of its citizens want?"
I thought that was what Lincoln was famous for.
Maybe I just live in a different reality, but I've never heard anyone describe gentrification as a good thing. Causing the value of property to sky rocket without adding jobs forces low-income residents to move. It doesn't solve the problem, it just moves the problem to a different location.
this is exactly the point that infuriated me.
It does not show this. Building stuff for rich people only further marginalizes the local community. She's espousing the "trickle-down" jobs theory and it is largely BS. Empowering local businesses, that would be a start.
She says they are two separate issues, but I think the connections between the politicians involved and Whirlpool, as well as the racial and economic makeup of this town belie that. Why was this place the FIRST? Not because it needed it the most, but because they knew it'd be the easiest and the most beneficial to their wallets.
It is a dance that goes like this.
School desegregation (Brown v Board of Education,) White flight to suburbs, Resegregation (as in suburbs "low-crime neightborhoods" vs inner cities,) Redlining
Followed by Gentrification. WTF HAPPENED TO MY FONT?
American Apartheid, pure and simple, as pointed out to me by someone from South Africa about 20 years ago.
Building stuff for rich people only further marginalizes the local community. That's because the poor like being poor. Poverty is a lifestyle choice and we should respect that choice.
Get a life.
How dare rich whites build a golf course in a derelict wasteland in a poor black town!
Redlining is the opposite of gentrification.
Redlining softens up the target area so that it can be gentrified at bargain basement prices.
That's a great point @Don Q! It makes the whole thing that much more gross when put in historical context. The theory behind this sequences of racist policies you mention is essentially "You do not deserve to have a community, neighborhood or place to live. So we can take it from you over and over again."
PS: sometimes if you hit "quote" button before you're written below the stuff you want to quote, your font gets whack.
@ Covah.."...the poor like being poor. Poverty is a lifestyle choice..." Really? So, you know all about me? You know that my husband died without warning? You know that I'm physically challenged? I chose this way of life? You say "get a life"; I respectfully suggest you try living my life.
Have any of you ever lived in a gentrified area? i have. i have watched rent sky rocket - i moved back from chicago to saint joe because i couldn't afford to live there anymore.
I was just having this conversation with my boyfriend in the car today - so, once they have gentrified and raised the rents - made condos and plowed the schools and the lofts are all up - where do the poor people go? he's working on a thing right now where he is supposed to make the destruction of a housing project 'happier' when the people interviewed all said 'yeah, we have nowhere to go, we are all homeless.' tell me how you make that happy. you don't.
the idea behind gentrification is that business moves in, banks move in, the rich people move in, the hipsters & kids move in (and i am part of this, i am guilty of this) & the place gets taken over - in the name of progress. Ok, great, but what about the people who actually lived there? where is the rent control so they can continue to live there? oh, wait, there is none! we don't do that, because you know - THEY DONT DESERVE IT! THEYRE POOR & LAZY, RIGHT?
this disgusts me. this attitude disgusts me. how can you turn your back on a whole group of people that you don't even know? enlighten me as to who decides and chooses to be poor? who wants to be put into the horrible situations that they are put in? no one wants that. i've had to struggle for what i've had and i've had it pretty easy compared with a lot of people in benton harbor. i don't face discrimination because i am white. you don't choose to be poor, you don't choose to have @!$%#s take over your town and shove you out. you don't ask for that kind of "progress" -
that is a kind of progress that happens without your say. and then wonderful people like covah here try to tell you that you are lazy and you deserve it. well, i respectfully say that no one in this country - the richest nation, well one of the richest nations in the world - deserves to live without health care, education - the comforts of knowing that you will be taken care of. the right to know that you can work hard & get a job if you work hard. these things - these ideals, are gone now -
replaced with the mantras of "its every man for himself" & "its all about me."
People like that disgust me. People like this are what is ruining this country. PERIOD.
Amen.
This is a right-wing issue pitting "private property" against "intrusive big government" generated by the Lakewood, Ohio case.
Liberals should support government's efforts in community redevelopment in the spirit of "general welfare" as opposed to the "sanctity of private property" which is the right-wing view.
It appears that Dr. Maddow is on the wrong side on this issue.
How many of the people in Benton Harbor will be allowed to work at this new development, much less be able to afford to visit it? We've already seen how Whirlpool has moved production overseas and destroyed many of the jobs in the city, why would anyone think that the people pushing the new housing and park/golf course would do ANYTHING for the people of Benton Harbor now?
Community redevelopment that benefits a select few at the expense of everyone else is not only unfair, it should also be illegal.
"Community redevelopment" isn't what's happening in Benton Harbor. Golf courses cause gentrification. I've seen this happen in South Carolina. Low-income residents are forced to move further and further away until the area is economically segregated. Oh, but they can still work at the golf resorts, they just have to travel longer distances from where they live.
I disagree with your assessment; I think that YOU are on the wrong side on this issue!
they can work there for slave wages.. don't forget that part.
If the emergency manager sells off some of the land, it will be a short ride to selling off the rest of the land. The golf course is going to take a nibble and come back for more. Maybe not right away, but eventually when there is nothing left to privatize or sell.
MaryEllen is free to support her opinion.
Here is evidence that protecting property from government seizure is a right-wing issue:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/915095/posts
Covah, I reject the rationale that Liberals should just be opposed to whatever the right-wing is for. That's not liberalism...and it's certainly not intelligent.
The golf course is privately owned. The park is public. So, really I don't know what you're point is since this is a case of privatizing publicly owned land.
Taking away representative government ( the will of the people) in a town and giving complete control to anyone Snyder wants to does not resemble democracy in any form that I can think of. That is the issue. It does not matter how in debt or what someone thinks the town should look like.If we follow this logic of Snyder many of the red states and blue states should lose there Representatives too.
It is good to see this article because it will begin an important dialogue about the differences of the two parties and who we believe we are as a nation. Maybe this article along with Rachel reporting will put this story in more newspapers and more networks.
Does that apply to civil rights applied by force on the South? Same-sex marriage? Vote pro-life? Elect school boards that demand "creation science"? State governments that strip union rights and steal worker pensions? Elected representatives walking out of chamber to prevent quorum and obstruct passage of bills? Elected officials who steal funds and go to prison?
Be careful what you wish for.
@Covah: None of those things are what we are discussing. Nor are they equivalent situations. Based on this comment and the ones above, you clearly have some anger issues regarding the civil rights of people of color. You also clearly have some ignorance when it comes to class issues. Why don't you go work on your issues, educate yourself, and come back and rejoin the discussion when you've got something productive or interesting to say. Right now you sound like a racist, classist troll, whether you are one or not.
"None of those things are what we are discussing. Nor are they equivalent situations."
Oh, but they are. Your argument rests on elected officials being able to do whatever they damn well feel like unless YOU disagree then it's fascism and dictators.
If you want evidence of "some anger issues regarding the civil rights of people of color" read the letters in the local newspaper linked above and the posts of locals on this topic in other threads. Locals are mighty tired of being dicked over by corrupt town government.
I haven't made any arguments at all in this thread, so I assume you are lumping everyone who doesn't agree with you into an amorphous 'You'. Otherwise, I'm not sure what you meant.
The only point I was trying to make was that if you disagree, fine, but using thinly veiled and not-at-all-veiled racist and classist statements and references is not an acceptable or useful way to make an argument. That leaves others to assume you you are a troll and have no other intentions but to upset other people and derail conversations. If that's your aim, and upsetting people feeds you, then I guess you're fulfilling your goals here. However, if you actually have points you want to get across and arguments you want to make, I'm simply suggesting you find new ways to do so and leave the -isms at home.
Where are some good billie goats Gruff when you need them?
"using thinly veiled and not-at-all-veiled racist and classist statements and references is not an acceptable or useful way to make an argument."
I agree. So stop doing it. And remind Dr. Maddow as well not to bring race and class into the situation, as if it were not already too late. As I recall Dr. Maddow leans heavily on the fact that Benton Harbor residents are poor and Black and are therefore victimized by Walker and Whirlpool and being manipulated out of their cherished Jean Klock Park that rich out-of-towners want to make into a golf course for elite whites.
Ah. Definite troll then. Okie doke. Just checking.
It always helps when they reveal themselves so openly and save you the trouble of worrying about misjudging them or whether or not you've been rude.
I couldn't agree more! If only they all had little 'Hello, My Name is TROLL' badges...
The whole issue ISN'T "is Benton Harbor better off with a financial dictator or a corrupt city government", but rather, "when is a dictator the right choice, period?". In the case of MI, voters democratically elected someone who was given dictatorial powers by a democratically elected legislature, and he in turn used those dictatorial powers to appoint his own sub-dictator. Now, for the sake of argument, let's just say that this all turns out hunky dory for Benton Harbor...the city rebounds economically, and its residents benefit from the decisions made by the sub-dictator. Doesn't this run the risk of people saying "gee, that worked out so well, let's expand the circumstances under which a sub-dictator can be imposed". What does that do to our electoral system? Why bother to go out and vote in local elections at all, when the dictator at the state level can nullify the voter's decision and appoint their own sub-dictator? In that case, the ONLY race that is really worth anything is the vote for the top dictator, in this case, the governor. And as this case has pointed out, what is to stop the top dictator from using his power to grow his own political power, and that of his party? If the right is really so enamored of this concept, I'm sure they wouldn't mind if Obama tosses out a few repub governors because of their states economic problems, (such as Rick Perry), and replacing them with well-connected dem campaign donors. It's for the good of the state, after all, dontcha know?
I loved your Benton Harbor reporting and you were 100% on the money. Going for a corporated state is going for a corporate state. There is no other alternative or excusable reason for these actions. It is dangerous, it is scarey and I wholeheartedly agree that this is where the debate should be. Furthermore, there has already been in place a program to help cities with finanacial problems in Michigan, the democtratic way.
The actions of these Republican states, and right now especially Michigan, are moving so fast that I feel the only thing that may stand between us and losing our democracy is the courts and the news.
Being a senior citizen, I have known many who have served and fought in war. They fought and maybe lost their lives for our freedom, the greatest gift in life. How sad for us all that our freedom is now of no consequence.
I guess "We the people...." is now "We the rich".....
I'll avoid the argument over whether this is fascism, corporatism or something else and ask of those who see this as justified behavior on the part of Michigan Governor Rick Snyder: if this were your town, would you feel that your freedom to self-governance was being abridged by this action?
Yes.
In my county:
City of Bell- government arrested for theft
City of Maywood- government eliminated, services contracted out, due to incompetency
City of Montebello- government under investigation for theft of funds
Vernon- charter questioned due to corrupt officials, merger encouraged
In my city, four council members were indicted on charges of corruption.
We recalled and replaced them in November. It was in our hands, not the hands of the governor. That's how it should be done. I would have been furious, not thankful, if our governor had done this.
Does ozoozol know what "indicted" means? It means "accused". So your council members were thrown out of office on a rumor. That's the Republicans' favorite game- accuse political opponents of random crimes then throw them out of office like they tried to do with President Clinton.
"It was in our hands, not the hands of the governor." You sound like a member of a lynch mob.
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You think that there was no proof, and that what evidence there was wasn't public? You don't know what city I'm from and you don't know the circumstances. Remove your foot from your mouth, you may need it to walk.
ETA: furthermore, our representatives serve at our pleasure. Our representatives (at any level of government) are not entitled to their jobs simply by virtue of sitting in the seat. We did not vote to incarcerate them, or otherwise punish them. That will be left to a jury. We voted for new representation. Are you capable of telling the difference?
 The thing about tyrants is that they use "emergengies" to grab power and once they have it they rarely, if ever, let go voluntarily. Once we have started down this path, where does it end? Will only cities that are predominately black be targeted? Will only cities that are predominately Democrat be targeted?
This is a logical next step in the "Monetization of Everything"--if a community has a financial problem, absolutely everything is subservient to getting the financial house in order. The political wisdom of the founders, all the understanding of community that has been gained over millennia, may be swept away in the name of balancing the books. This is embodied in Ryan's budget plan as well. Many individuals and families face this same issue, the monetization of everything, on a smaller scale as their financial status and woes dominate other considerations in life.
I generally agree with those who OPPOSE removing the local govt. and I am no fan of gentrification and marginalizing and gradually deporting the established population, but one point I would make for the opposing side: The govt. of Michigan is elected by the citizens of Michigan, including those in Benton Harbor, and its actions when lawful ARE in fact the actions of representative govt, and and thus are not dictatorial in themselves. Disagreement with those actions in principle does not make them unlawful. I disagree in principle but acknowledge them as the lawful actions of duly elected representative govt.
Hmmm, using democracy to destroy democracy. Haven't we seen this somewhere before?
I was surprised to see that you'd not made any reference to Alex Kotlowitz's book, The Other Side Of The River, which deals with the racial component that has long-existed between the two cities.
If the local government is hated and corrupt, wouldn't a recall and a new election be the preferred solution rather than a Big Government instituting a dictatorial solution?
And how is Snyder's solution any less corrupt?
Do you really believe that Snyder has the best interests of the residents of Benton Harbor at heart?
I agree 100% with UFFDAGUY! This is the most terrifying travesty of democracy since Hitler took over Germany! Truly frightening and the sad question is: When and where will it end? I hope voters everywhere are taking a good hard look at both Michigan AND Wisconsin and thinking about what could be in store for their own states. Do we want a dictatorship? I think NOT! God help us!
Also... Tale of two cities: Benton Harbor and St. Joseph, Michigan.
i'd like to hear more benton harbor residents weigh in on this matter, both here as well as in the reporting of this story. in my experience, testimony trumps theory.
If you had asked citizens of 1936 Germany about how they felt about Hitler and the Nazis, you would have found overwhelmingly positive reactions. So, does testimony REALLY trump theory?
to me? yes, it does.
my concern is that, as it happens in most cases, the people who are most affected by the issue at hand are left without a voice, be it local or national. disenfranchisement runs on a broad spectrum, and i'd prefer to hear what Benton Harbor residents think than what we all choose to speculate.
that said, i agree with what you're saying, Uff.
One more time in case you missed it:
http://heraldpalladium.com/articles/2011/04/17/local_news/4375778.txt
And you might try other threads on this topic on this site.
Do you think for one minute the golf course owners will stand for houses and people in poverty as neighbors? They will tax them to extinction.
A gilded cage is none-the-less still a cage....
Some people seem to understand the gravity and significance of these actions by Snyder; however, I am amazed at how many don't. How do you think you lose freedom and democracy? Do you think it is an overnight happening? No, it is a process and every time you give up a part of your freedom or democracy, it becomes easier and easier for more and more of those rights to be taken from you. We either believe in democracy or we do not. This country was founded, and defended for democratic principles. I find these bait and switch tactics to be very cleverly implemented. First the far right railed and railed against the perceived "socialism". They did this so well that they are now able to convince the unaware that this dictatorial government is a better alternative. If you do not fight against this dictatorial takeover, then you may well be giving up on your democratic rights.
She just doesn't get that there is a "C" choice-----do something that helps Benton Harbors residents to get themselves up out of crisis and become a vibrant community-Like putting in a business that creates jobs without displacing the citizens--I guees thats just way too liberal and American for consideration.
So Covah's case is that the residents of Benton Harbor want their elected officials out but can't think of any way to make that happen without help from Big Brother? Which is more likely, that low-income black people would cheer the arrival of a big-money corporate contract tyrant, or that Covah doesn't actually know all the people in B.H., and wants a shortcut to get rid of leaders that the ignorant majority prefers to keep?
The people of Bell, Calif., had no problem getting rid of a corrupt city government, once a real case was made that it was corrupt. Why must the people of B.H. be treated as infants?
This.
"once a real case was made that it was corrupt"
Made by whom? Oh no, not by Big Brother state officals/dictators/fascists!
Why must the people of B.H. be treated as infants? Waa waa waa! I hate you Mommy! No Big Brother for me! Trust us, we're elected. Decades of corruption? We'll take care of it, maybe tomorrow. Just say no to corporate investment and gentrification! Just say yes to corporate investment and jobs! Just say no to big-money corporate contract tyrant, just say yes to leaders that the ignorant majority prefers to keep! Or something...
Rachel is doing such a great job on keeping us informed!
They could remove the corrupt city officials through the courts, and hold new elections. If they are truly corrupt, there must be criminal charges that could be pressed. Judging by the sketches of the homes, the "rich" people across the river won't be able to afford them either. The connexions between the emergency manager, the governor, and the developers are more than a bit fishy.
no, most people in saint joseph can't afford those homes either. the idea is to sell the homes to rich people from chicago as summer homes/golf resort homes. saint joe residents have a median income of 37,000 dollars a year. so, there you go. there are no big new businesses coming to town anytime soon.
I commented before about the possible back story of a free lunch on that Golf Club. I also now think what prompted this desire for a financial dictator? What percipitated it, could it be that the city council realized that the boondogle of the Golf Club wasn't really schedualed to produce the kind of wind fall for Benton Harbor that all the people involved seemed to think for giving up half the park? We keep equating wealth with prosperity, they really are two seperate things. Just because a luxery home is built somewhere, doesn't mean there is some general prosperity to the area. Just means a rich person lives on the hill. Ask anyone who lived in 19th century Apalachia.