Think Progress
Tonight President Obama is expected to announce the first withdrawals of the 30,000 troops he sent for a surge in Afghanistan -- reportedly 10,000 this year, with more to come home after that. We'll be covering the speech live starting at 8 p.m. Eastern. For now, this chart from Think Progress on what's left after all the surge troops go home.
Think Progress is drawing on this report (pdf) from the Congressional Research Service in March. The CRS chart of troops in Iraq and Afghanistan is after the jump, by way of A block producer Mike Yarvitz.
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Ridiculous. Should bring home 75000 tomorrow. How much more of our tax money are they going to spend on a losing proposition?
Wouldn't it be easier to just stop sending new troops? Then there would be fewer to bring home... My cousin was just deployed to Iraq last month...
Now. Now. Do you honestly expect any bureaucracy, especially the compartmentalized costumed bureaucracy, to do something that sensible? After all there is no doubt a Directorate of Going There and Directorate of Coming Here. Neither talks to the other, most information in both is classified for national security purposes and careers depend upon each Directorate doing the bestest mostest bang-upest job within the parameters of their brief.
Jonathan Swift wrote about it in Gulliver's Travels in 1726.
So I guess not has changed in a couple of hundred years!
His book was not a comedy or kiddywink tale but a satirical essay on the incompetence and stupidity of governments.
That much HAS NOT changed.
Just the costs for transportation back and forth seems to be keeping some airlines in business.
We need the money spent here at home and not overseas. As a Veteran I want our troops home, and close more overseas bases.
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Even without the owly Time Wanrer Cable is scheduled to play the above in the 2:00 PM time slot ... wonder if he'll be speaking or take the time to watch the 57 minutes of it to tell the tale of the PHYSICS of why the Aghanistan War was started for all the WRONG reasons and deserves to be ended NOW for all the RIGHT reasons.
How the hell does she know what he will say and he hasn't even announced it yet? But we have a great spin set up for how this will not be enough! Rachel cracks me the hell up. Media in general crack me up.No announcement at all yet and we are ready to attack the President on the issue. Watch tonight's news once he actually speaks the negative spin the media will use!
.....Umm Anthony they were advised last night what the President was going to be talking about in broad and this morning NBC was given a layout of what the President would be saying (this is what MSNBC is reporting on). Both were issued by the WH. That's the way it works. The WH always informs the media of what they are going to say before they issue statements about what's going on. Le sighs. Secondly neither Rachel nor anyone here at Maddowblog has said anything negative or positive regarding the President's announcement. You are enacting the very same behavior you're chastising. Hypocrisy much??? Geeze.
Projection, more like. He spouts off without knowing what he's talking about, so he assumes that's what everyone else is doing.
We spend money at the Pentagon like it's going out of style; we've never stopped WW2. And as a result, our money really MAY go out of style. We had the biggest, bestest, fastest, mostest military in the world on 9/11, and it couldn't protect its own headquarters from 19 guys with box-cutters. They're great guys and gals, don't get me wrong... but military might isn't solving ANY of our problems.
Idiot's! One,the President hasn't even spoke yet.But somehow the media knows exactly how many troops are coming home and why it's not enough.Ed did the same thing last night,already setting the stage that no matter what the number it's not enough.Use your own brain people think.Why does the media want you thinking the draw down is bad? Why do you comment on information you don't even have and ready to listen to what they say is good or bad. And for the idiot that screams bring them all home right now,have you ever taken economics. Same issue with the gay's and lesbian communities.More has been done for their agenda since this Presidency and now they say they won't support the President in 2012.You know what we need,four years of repug Administration! Yes don't support your President and vote another way.Then and then only will you see just how hard the Administration is trying to fix our issues! Once they strip your rights and ban gay's completely and lead us into more debt for their gain will you people get it.The Hispanics are mad because he missed a conference by all means don't vote for him in 2012,don't support him now. And let's see how the repugs treat you. Patience,and realize how we got where we are,not what the media told you,do your own fact finding.How stupid can you be,think! Oh and to be real clear I was a Rachel fanatic, what a joke her show has become.Watch Lawrence and get facts you can go and verify!
Anthony, elements of the president's speeches are routinely released prior to the speech, and this is yet another example. So please, stop ranting about the awful media on this. There is plenty else to castigate them for.
Thank u Anthony
For 8 years the the media cheered for the wars in Iraq, cheered on Bush and Cheney's lies, and were confident OBL was in a cave or dead.
Pres Obama has been in office 2 1/2 years and he found and killed OBL. btw OBL was hiding in plain sight.
The last place anyone should be looking for news is the media.
I am sticking with President Barack Obama.
Obamacrat forever 2012
.....who the hell said no one is supporting the president? Where the hell did you pull that one out of? You realize it's a strawman argument to say "because you've got a little you should stop complaining" right? It's a logical fallacy. So let me get this straight- you are mad that the media is going to say something negative about the president before he has spoken. But yet you are saying negative things about the media before the media has spoken. Then you go on to make accusations that no one else but you has made. And then you say people aren't thinking for themselves?????? Do you even listen to yourself when you speak???
Time to come home. We create more terrorists than we kill over there. They had an election and picked someone we can't work with.
Like this countries mayor's said let's engage in nation building here.
Aid to the region should be humanitarian. We don't need to train the military over there, they already know how to kill people.
I want them all to come home...now.
I agree bring the troops home! I do, however, wonder about the timing. He is bringing home 10,000 now, and 65,000 just before the election? I, also, wonder about jobs. What will all of these returning vets do for jobs? What will it do to the jobless rate? Could that be another reason for the late withdrawal? Help me out here. Am I so tired of the games being played by the Wisconsin government that I see questions and underhanded tricks in everything now?
I had the same thought. I see the wars as being a jobs program, but once they return home, it doesn't mean they are discharged. It would be nice to get some infrastructure rebuilt and what we need is a surge in the army core of engineers. Also, many cities are losing fire and police support because of funding, perhaps a program from the military to supplement those needs.
12.1% is the troop unemployment level (Paul Reikoff tweeted that a bit ago). If we dump a huge investment into our troops like we did at the end of WWII you actually would see a booming generation in the next decade from all those troops graduating from college and/or starting up successful businesses. Me thinks, however, that this won't ever happen. That would be "stimulus" and we all know how awful that word is... le sigh.
Did you do your part to keep these Wisconsin people from winning? If not, well. If so, I sympathize. People who cut off their noses to spite their faces deserve to have no noses.
And if the nosse keeps dribbling the same nonsense lets smite the whole HEAD off the way the Jefferson idea was. Political Prattle because by the time Obama is done there will be MORE troops and money invested in Afghanistan than when he ENTERED office. Brutal Truth Flat Fact based on the projected announements from the WH and one thing we can be sure the WH is ON TRACK.
But remember:
Reality must be truthful to be useful. Don't make policy and promises you have no intention of keeping and KEEP the policies and promises you DO make.
ACTIONS speak louder than words.
ACTIONS are PROOF of intent.
ACTIONS are the final judgment of character.
It REALLY is that simple.
Obama is an "Empty Suit" when it comes to the BASIC foreign policy of th US:
Bob...:D
Word is, before the recession, military recruiters across the country were not making their quotas. They were letting folks out of prison to go fight.
Then one day the recession happened and now they're turning them away at the door in droves.
Hi there Bob; how are you doing? You haven't been on in a while. I hope everything is going ok. I am almost afraid to ask, but how is your wife?
Obama is doing as he promised, bringing the troops home. It won't be fast enough for some people. It was the GOP who wanted an indefinite war. No matter what his decision is on Afghanistan, the GOP will not be happy.
If the GOP wanted to end the wars they would have been over. It is silly to pretend they want to bring home troops.
It is overlooked that almost 50% of our money is paid annually to the military industrial complex; war or no war.
The money used to prosecute all these wars is in addition to that. A nice bonus for the warlords.
Why would the republicans ever want anything to hinder their masters cash flow.
Something not addressed, of course, when these people come home, they are reservists for the most part, will they join the ranks of the unemployed?
Their employers may well be out of business!
I presume when that happens it will be President Obama's fault also.
I understand there are a LOT of logistics involved with massive troop withdrawals. In Vietnam, we burned our helos and aircraft, burned our camps and supplies and each left with what they could carry in one trip. They were even throwing perfectly good helos and planes overboard off of carriers because there wasn't enough room for all the returning assets.
I don't want to see that happen here, so I do understand it will take at least a year to get our troops out. But please, Mr. President, get the troops out. It would be nice, for a change, to see a "Mission Accomplished" banner that actually means what it says.
I notice that the above chart doesn't seem to include private contrators ...like Blackwater, etc. Contractors have outnumbered our troops over there for quite some time now. Even if all our actual troops leave...it still ain't over. It's all about the money. ...so much cash and so little time! "Nuts."
[Edit, sorry, didn't mean to imply I was a Nam vet in the first paragraph, but the story is real enough.]
I guess I am just happy that some of the GOPer's have finally realized that wars cost money.
They lie, let them get into the presidency and we will start another war and just like with Bush the media will shake their heads and say nothing.
A couple things to keep in mind:
1) There are currently pending contracts not paid for completely by our government (being held up by Congress and the budget). Until those contracts are signed it is likely no troops will come home (outside of normal deployment rotations, I mean). We also have contracts pending for next year to be funded; again no troops will come home until they are completed. This is not something you will be told about in MSM (more than likely).
2) The MSM will likely gloss over the fact that this drawdown will only occur if the generals on the ground believe it is safe to w/draw troops. If the time period comes up for each interval to be met (so this upcoming interval would be the 10k drawdown) & conditions have worsened we will not be bringing anyone home. The conditionality of people coming home is based on whether or not Afghanistan remains stable. Any change in the negative and the troop drawdown will change.
Both of these factors have to be met before troops will come home.
Can anyone tell me exactly when we started handing policy decisions over to the military? They're supposed to be under civilian control, not the other away around, but sometime after Truman fired MacArthur, and at least by Gulf War II: This Time It's Personal (Because They Tried to Kill My Daddy, Who I Hate, But Never Mind), something fundamental changed.
I don't know, but I was betting that the MSM would not cover the conditionality of the drawdown. I was right, unfortunately. It is important to note because I guarantee if both conditions aren't met the MSM will then try to say Obama is lying later when he tries to stall the drawdown. In reality he never did lie the MSM just failed to report accurately what was going on. Additionally I thought it was worthwhile to point out because it shows just how powerful the MIC really is. We cannot make decisions to pull out unless Congress funds their pet companies and unless the generals on the ground 'feel that it's safe to drawdown.' Anyone here know what the revolving door rate of generals-to-lobbyists is? I bet it's pretty significant....
For all of those lamenting the troop increase in Afganistan during the Obama administration, could you please show a corresponding chart of U.S. troop levels in Iraq since 2008? Does anyone remember everyone lamenting the Bush government taking their eye off the Afganistan ball to waste time in Irag? Isn't that why the troop levels in Afganistan were so low, forcing Obama to dramatically increase troop levels to where they initially should have been? Didn't McCain say "We'll muddle through"? Yeah, I wish every troop would ship home tommorow. But Maddow blaming Obama for this wholely is really disappointing. I expect a lot more from her.
.....Maddow blamed Obama? oy vey...please people please listen to what's actually being said instead of inserting your own words...le sigh. Yet again I will remind people just because Rachel doesn't come out and say "I support this 100%" doesn't automatically means she's deriding the plan. Just as her not coming out and saying "I think this is a horrible idea" does not automatically mean she supports it, either.
I hate war. I'm looking for the time when guns will be beat into plowshares, but it is unlikely, simply because of the nature of mankind. We all want peace, but when something happens we forget. We all want peace but if you cannot control the actions of others, we will never have it.
I watch Ms Maddow every night. The thing is, although I perceive her as a very intelligent person, she is just like the rest of us, going on emotion. We really do not know what to do when it comes to war. Another thing is that Dems criticize the President so much, I can't see where anyone thinks that he has done anything right. My fear is the alternative. People complained about the lack of enthusiasm of Dems and others in the last election. Look at what the Govs in a number of states are doing. Now people are fighting an uphill battle. Whose fault is that? The peoples of course, but they won't admit this. My thing is that Dems need to be more together and instead of so much criticism and whining find a better way to get things done. I'm sure that there is. Although I think that the Repubs are terrible people, the ones in power, they sure do get things done with little or no public criticism of each other.
The "liberal" media is doing all of the complaining. MSNBC claims to be some liberal network and they complain all day long about the President.
The repubs don't even have to come on MSNBC because the repubs talking points are on display every damn day on this network.
Ever notice how many ex repubs are hosting shows on this network. Most of the "Dem" guests are green party, nader people.
Glad people are finally realizing that the all media is FOX news. Propaganda
"Draw Down," is a political and financial move/concept. Trust me, I am ex-military—Draw Down is not a natural part of the military's DNA. We are taught to get in and out—not to linger. Pack it all up, now!
Although I support President Obama, I cannot lie, I really am one of those that finds it would be better to get out of foreign occupations as fast as possible. I do not say discharge people. I do want to get that foreign spending down and go after the people plotting wherever they are.
That said, I will vote for Obama and can see no reason to criticize him. He has done many improvements since the last guy, don't want another one of those.
I would also prefer, the get in, get out route Matthew.
I tried listening to Maddow tonight but I had to turn from her whining tonight. Does
she have some high level intelligence information that makes her think that the
president is not listening to the war fighters on the ground? I can almost
guarantee that after the extreme progressives help a Republican get into the Whitehouse
let’s see if the GOP change their views on wars and spending. I'm sure they
will find quite a few social programs to cut so they can fund their WARS!!!
This attitude that a democrat has the Whitehouse so don't negotiate is so
immature and non-productive.
I want the troops to come home also, but when they return home do you think they
will become the next round of job cuts? No wars no need for the large military personnel
numbers so this = a larger number of unemployed and angry people it always
happens. Let’s get corporation to start hiring so our war fighters can
transition to productive employment. It's nice to be able to sit back and arm
chair quarterback as the media does..
The American people know talking points not
what is actually happening on the ground. But the media has to say and stir
things because they have good paying jobs to keep!!
hurting, I have an opinion. I pay taxes. I feel "we" (yes I feel a bond with soldiers that do what they do and they do it for us) have done the job we set out to do, bin Laden is gone, there has never been a better reason until the great conclusion of the "perfectly performed" mission. I prefer those missions to occupations. I am glad President Obama moved soldiers out of Iraq, as he said.
The media should be reporting on these things and we have to consider the facts, not "talking points". The facts are the wars are winding down. Are we there to provide cover for contractors while they build or protect those corporate employees that we do not know. I would say we do have numbers, facts of what is the cost of doing this. What is our benefit to cost ratio?
I do not see the need to discharge those soldiers as to create "unemployed". We are talking about budget cutting, I cannot see keeping this up for much longer, that's what I heard President Obama say. Just a slower pace.
I greatly admire President Obama. But tonight, when he said the word "2014," he lost me. It seems like our priorities are: 1) Nation Build in Afghanistan. 2) Nation Build in Pakistan. 3) Nation Build in the USA? Why is Afghanistan and Pakistan more important than the USA?
I'm surprised that Rachel did not challenge her guest on why we need to fight against the taliban. Sure they are creepy and extreme -but so are fundamentalist christians. They did not attack us, and won't follow us home if we leave. As for the Alkaeda dead-enders, we should be able to clean them up with a few hundred CIA spooks, and use the savings to pay for my Medicare. I kind of suspect that our big military presence there is to threaten Pakistan and to stand ready to move in and seize their WMD if they don't follow instructions.
BINGO WINNER !!!
Note: Even the CIA admits many of the past US wars and blunders were them working for multi-nationals based in US or had US capitalistic connections. The greatest is the War on Freedom through Fear .. happening through paid political pundits peddling pigeon poop prose phony praise or passionate putridness regurgitated in an endless news cycles of ltitle "Substance" ... The "Where's the BEEF?" syndrome.
M^3 I^3 C^4 "Mickey eats everything"
A&E Blueprint for Truth airs in Ft Drum public access channel in Fort Drum near Malone where he visits tomorrow. Also Friday through Sunday at the 2PM time slot public access. Wonder of Obama will watch it?
Bob
I think President Obama is on the right track. It's easier to increase the speed of the number of troops coming home in the near future than it is to make a big promise now and then have to retract it later. Let get 10,000 troops home first and observe how this affects the stability in the REGION. I would prefer to avoid the carnage such as we saw against the Hmong Civilians after we left Vietnam. I would LIKE to see 10,000 troops returning PER MONTH for six months with a complete withdrawl in month seven. The war is expensive, but how many troops can you fit on a vehicle bound for home at any one time? We only have so much transport capability anyway. The surge worked, Bin Laudin is dead, but I don't think we should just cut and run.
First off, the world is bored with the war in Afghanistan because Obama is not hyping it the way his predecessor did. In the early days, we had all kinds of telemetric data-streaming to our news resources which gave it sufficient flare to make any "reality" show pale by comparison. "Shock and Awe" described media involvement far more than it did the military tactic. Obama is not into the hype, and doesn't allow the bombing videos out very often. Obama makes this war look like drudgery, which it has always been, and which it really should look like. Obama is putting Afghanistan into perspective, and we don't like what we see. Let's not forget that the humanitarian effort underway in Libya has also provided reduced levels of flashy telemetry to the news channels (even though the quality of telemetric video has improved in the past decade), making for reduced mainstream appeal. Reduced appeal regarding any kind of war can be a good thing.
If you think of our U.S. Troops, and of Afghanistan's residents, a gradual drawdown is foolish and frightening. I say, "Fight with appropriate force until the job is done", and then get the hell outta there. I say this (and this is only my dumb opinion) as a U. S. Marine. America no longer likes being in Afghanistan, but we have been there for decades, and the Obama Administration is fighting to get us out of there using a process that will most-likely not require "a directly-related return involvement". Abandonment any earlier simply exits Afghanistan/Pakistan while at full broil, and this is a recipe for future involvement.
If I recall, the major Democrat gripe regarding Afghanistan is that America never took it sufficiently seriously under G.W.B. to commit the necessary troops to "get the job done", which allowed a complex insurgency to form and entrench itself. Prior to Obama, Afghanistan was a side-show, surrealistically subordinate to some twisted paternal logic which engaged Iraq (To this day I shudder at G.W.'s public statement that the second Iraq war was suggested vocally to him at his home by his god - I'm pretty sure the "In God We Trust" deity would have known enough to filter any messages through his Cabinet, thus making for a more digestible newsbite). Obama committed the first adequate minimal force to Afghanistan in 2009 during his "surge" effort, and this was the biggest force he could politically get away with since Iraq was still draining significant resources, Let Obama finish the job, and let's not do this "part-time" such that the insurgency has opportunity to develop countermeasures to our process and batter our prematurely depleted forces. "In and out" of Afghanistan, all at full force, is the only good way to get out of this unsatisfying war. Let's give Obama opportunity to get us outta this mess using full and appropriate resources, no matter how painful it is that these resources arrived a half-dozen years after they were called for.
As one "Democrat" that supported (yes- Bush plan-I am shocked at this also) the going after OBL & his AQ when it was told to us he did it and those responsible for 9-11 were known and I had full confidence our military would do the task before them in short order.
Don't ever forget- it was Iraq this and other "Democrats" that were griping about. I was NEVER EVER EVER -EVER- for THAT GWB plan and was out there saying so before during and after it was done!
I just wanted to answer DaveShoe with what I "was griping about". It was the sudden change of heart about OBL-AQ (those that hit us), and lame lame lame decision (based in some flimsy at best, evidence that was being hyped) to stop the original plan "fighting 'em over there"/nation building stuff in Iraq he said he was against.
Dear Ms Maddow,
Remember these things:
The Pakistanis have deliverable nyook-u-ler weapons. Ka-BOOM!
The Pakistani government is totally f#&ucked up and has been since the mid 1970s.
Usama bin-Laden was living comfortably in Pakistan for YEARS.
Are you getting the drift?
What makes anyone think that Ub-L was NOT working with the nyook-u-ler community in Pakistan to figure out a way to BOMB the US (or Israel)?
The reason our great President Barak Obama is NOT pulling everyone out of Afghanistan is precisely because of the nuclear threat the Pakistani right wing religious nut jobs pose.
Give Obama a break. He is more attuned to what is happening than ANYONE gives him credit for. If we yank it from Afghanistan too soon, a Pakistani nuke will pop before you can say "Tel Aviv". Or NYC. Or Langley, VA.
Think about it. Li'l bush got us into a huge mess that will take many decades to clean up.
The li'l bush Middle East blunders are merely shards of the mountain of broken glass he left for our great President Obama to piece back together.
Remember that Pakistan has over a 4000 MILE border with Afghanistan... All it would take is ONE Pakistani nuke to slip through a 20 foot wide dirt road to really f#&@uck things up in America (or Israel). A suicide bomber knows NO deterrent - even if the threat of totally assured destruction of his family and friends is the final outcome - martyrdom in the name of Allah is but a small price to pay for a religious right winger.
To me, the best course of action is to wholly pounce on the Pakistani nuclear complex and take complete ownership of their entire nuclear act. ALL of it. In US or UN control. Once that is done, the US wouldn't need more than 5K troops to secure the entire region - including embassy diplomats and their aides in both countries. Pakistan is the reason we can't just pull out of Afghanistan carte blanche. The Taliban and Al-qaeda are but mere gnats in the game now.
You want our beloved troops to come home from Afghanistan? Secure the Pakistani nukes first, foremost, and completely.
Now we are protecting our corporate allies in India? Yes, Pakistan has nukes aimed at India.....
The region is really a very volatile place. I seem to recall PNAC and UNOCAL pipeline plans through the area. Is that what this is really about?
I say this is the true mission, the corporations are using our military for protection of "their assets". Oil... fossil fuels, the things that has taken charge of our economy.
Therefore, my declared support for renewable and clean energy.
I still urge President Obama to advocate for that, since it would mean a bushel of benefits for the American people. Businesses could make profit...jobs...cleaner air and water.... chirp, chirp... crickets?
Our government has always used the military to protect and advance corporate interests, as have many other governments. I'm not saying it's right, because I don't feel it is, but it is nothing new or peculiar to America. I have no doubt that much of what is going on in that part of the world vis a vis the US involvement is actually to promote corporate interests, with the "war on terror" as a handy smokescreen. Iraq was almost certainly an action taken to help US energy companies, with the side benefit of being very lucrative to the defense industry and Cheney's pals in Halliburton.
You are both right. The nuke issue is a great concern for more than just India. After re-reading it did sound like I did not think about that.
I get annoyed when people say we want unfettered free market and no government intrusion, but we have been fighting with our military for the same corporations that seem to want no government and for privatizing military, while they use it/us for their gain.
I am also aware that President Obama is keenly aware of nukes. I do see the benefit and wisdom of getting that under wraps.
It does have that familiar sound of pipelines to me, but there is the facts. Pakistan probably knew OBL was there and gave his safe haven all those years. I just want them home and not cut all the spending here, so we can spend over there.
The US just can't afford these wars any longer. Too many lives are being lost and the wasted billions just boggles the mind. That money could better be spent on helping people who don't qualify for Medicaid, supporting the WIC program, funding for the mental health system (heaven knows we need that), and helping the veterans and families of these wars. I'm a moderate Democrat from the midwest and I know there must be many more Democrats that have the same opinion.