Calculated Risk
The blue line is where we thought we were. The red line is where we are.
Washington, D.C., has been wrestling for weeks now with how to cut government spending -- a key sector of the economy.
Meanwhile, as you know from living in the rest of the world, the real problem is the economy. New government figures show that the Great Recession was greater than we thought. The recovery is nowhere. And good luck finding meaningful talk about a public stimulus to get the economy moving again. We're at risk now of falling back into a shrinking economy, and if it shrinks long enough, a recession.
On a technical note, gross domestic product -- GDP -- was growing at an annualized rate of 0.4 percent in the first quarter. Healthy economic growth, for the U.S., is 2-3 percent.
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Lets Put America Back to Work!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Be a American and Buy American!!!!!!!!!!!
Deficit investment in infrastructure and manufacturing, or we get exactly no-where because the economy is an engine and w/out revenue for fuel it just sits like a rock. Like right now.
To buy American, first we have to make something. Right now, its slim pickings.
Yet more proof that we needed a BIGGER stimulus package, not a smaller or non-existent package. In addition, it should ALL have been spending, not half as tax cuts, as was done on the demand of repubs. By now, we have more than enough statistical and historical evidence to know that tax cuts are the least stimulative of all methods to stimulate the economy. If they really did work, we would have had more than the paltry 1.5 million jobs created in 8 years under Bush.
The only goal of the Republican's is to get Obama out of the White House. You can't address a balanced budget without addressing massive outsourcing and historically low taxes. By the way, I watched corporations beg for even lower tax rates before the Senate Finance Committee on CSPAN. NOT FUNNY!!!
Yeh right! Obama's recovery did not work!! But, wait it's because we didn't spend enough money, bail out enough companies, get in more debt, etc. How ridiculous! What kind of moron would roll the dice and gamble away the future of generations to come on a hail mary like that!
You are right, we were far better off with the Wall Street burning down and the economy cratering the way it was before Bush was even out the door. What we need is more of THAT!
Bailing out Wall Street or the banks did nothing to benefit America. The specific jobs portion of Obama's stimulus; including a national high speed rail project and infrastructural renovation, was rejected by every republican governor nation wide. It was an effort to sabotage Obama's recovery efforts, by denying the job opportunities it would've created. In addition republican governors cut public sector jobs witch created further budget shortfalls.
You can't tax people without jobs. The wealthiest Americans are under taxed. How do you base your arguments against these facts? Please respond.
- Thanks.
Katy,
Let me fix your statement for you so it is more accurate:
Yeh, right, Bush's tax cuts did not work! But wait, it's because we didn't cut taxes enough, increase the number of corporate tax loopholes so that the 2/3 of American businesses that paid no income taxes last year can be increased to 100%. What kind of moron would roll the dice and gamble away the future of generations to come on a hail mary like that!
You can thank me later for helping you correct your error.
Uffy...one can't fix troll comments :). Trolls cannot fully understand any topic at hand let alone discuss one and moreover, discussion is not the objective at all.
True, you can fix standard ignorance with facts and knowledge, but willful ignorance as displayed by Katy is as immutable as a supermassive black hole.
Yep, and they finally suspended her today for her spew.
Really??? She has had it coming for so very long, but she has always skated by somehow. How long is she gone for?
Unfortunately just a day. It works for me though...slamming Don around per usual and I am proud of him for letting it be.
What ever happened to Mouser? Anyone know?
No, come to think of it, I havent seen her in way too long. She's one great lady, and she always brings a great viewpoint to the board. Now you have me missing her!
Her page is gone :(
HUH???? Wait, wasn't she going into the military?
Dunno?
.
I know she wanted to. I hope she hasn't yet. Not until the DoD will do right by her girl. She also talked about going into law enforcement. Maybe intelligence. I'm pretty sure she was going back to school though.
She's one of the sparkling lights in the firmament of this board, and I hope her star will return to our skies soon.
Amen.
Thanks Uff! But wait, Bush isn't the issue. We are talking about Obama, and you sepcifically said we needed a bigger stimulus package. So, where is the evidence that a bigger stimulus would help? There is none. I call that rolling the dice, betting a lot of money without any evidence that it will work.
Obama has been a total failure. There is plenty of evidence of that!
That's because he had to build his administration on the wreckage left by the Bush/Cheney presidency. He would have done better if he had swept all that mess away...from the tax cuts to the Patriot Act, to Bush's energy policy - which bit him in the ass with Deepwater Horizon. The reason he is a failure is because he tries too hard to work with his right wing critics instead of representing the people who elected him. The stimulus was weakened by being made into tax cuts, WHICH DO NOT WORK! Without the tax cuts it would have been more effective. That's not rolling the dice. That's a certainty!
He just wants to get re-elected and realizes that a lot of people who voted for him before won't do it again. It has nothing to do with him trying to compromise Don.
We can't predict the future Don. There is no certainty in what you say. It is a gamble at best and there are also is the possibility of unintended consequences.
What I do know is that there is not a single credible Replican candidate being run against him, because Republicans KNOW they've got a great friend in the White House and don't want to ruin a good thing.
And if you want to talk about uninteded consequences, what about those that come from the policies of the past 10 years? Obama hasn't done much to roll back anything Bush did and those are the policies that lead to the downgrade. All the Republicans talk about are souping up the steroids of the Bush administration with PCP.
Katy does a superb job of ignoring history, both in this country and around the world...another example of the willful ignorance I spoke of above. Massive budget cuts lead to one thing....massive unemployment, greatly increased poverty, and general destruction of a country for years thereafter. We saw it in 1937 in this country, when, as the economy was slowly coming out of the Depression, budget hawks cut government spending. The recovery not only halted, but reversed. Poland, Russia, Argentina, Brazil and other countries experienced the same when Friedman's policies were put into place, policies which invariably involved massive budget cuts, often put into place with armed force. Now that repubs have won on the spending issue, any further disasters are totally owned by them. They own the debt downgrade, they own the huge drops in global markets, they will own the resulting rise in unemployment. At this point, I am almost beyond caring. If they want to burn the world to the ground, let them. They will suffer the same as anyone, the Tea Party dimwits losing their jobs, their homes, their retirement funds, their Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid just like the rest of us. Then of course, they will play the victim, as usual, blaming it all on dems and Obama, despite Boehner himself saying they got 98% of what they wanted. And when the "Super Congress" fails to reach a compromise, because the very idea of compromise is anathema to the far right, they will whine and complain that it isn't FAIR that they will have to cut $650 billion from defense as they promised in their agreement. We're already hearing that from some repubs, hinting that they may welch on that deal. I know of five year-olds that are more mature than those folks. Katy is just another of those whiny brats who wants to blame all the problems on the victims, on the people that repubs themselves claim lost on the issue.
She never posts anything that makes sense Uffy...
You started the #2 thread with,
She says,
Her rhetoric spew is always twisting the topic or the thread into her vile, mean spirited hatred for all things left and liberal. If she made any sense or could converse without the hate...she'd be worth a conversation. She's not...we waste our keyboard energies.
She has no interest in stating anything but negative comments about liberals and the president.
I have come close to putting her on ignore...but she is so doggone hilarious, that I just can't remove that daily source of hilarity from my menu. On the other hand, I gave up wasting my time on eap a long time ago. It's sad to see that there are still some folks that waste their time on his goofy posts.
Thanks Uff! Glad you like my sense of humor....
I don't take this nearly as seriously as some do. I have my opinions, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.
Exactly...nobody loses sleep over this @!$%#...it's curious that someone would think of that?
The Democrats (in all levels of government and prospective candidates) need to get ahead of the ignorance that has captured the House of Representatives. ITS TIME TO START TELLING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE DAMN TRUTH! It would seem curse words get attention and the eyes of the people! The job creators are NOT the wealthy, corporations, hedge fund managers, or even small business owners! What? Really? Here's something so basic that even a 10th grade high school student can grasp!
JOBS ARE CREATED BY CONSUMPTION AND REVENUES ARE GENERATED OR THE PROSPECTIVE OF NEW REVENUES WITH INCREASED CONSUMPTION! THAT'S IT AND CERTAINLY NOT ROCKET SCIENCE! Consumption is buying products and services and/or exporting those items! The unemployed, the middle class, the lower middle class, the low income class, and even the upper middle class are the REAL job creators! Its time to TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE TRUTH AND SHAME THE DEVIL! Each day you allow your voice unheard and talked over by the tea baggers with their false facts, ignorance prevails!
Here's another tasty fact, giving tax loopholes and holding taxation at this current level will not create jobs. Why? Corporations have no incentives! They are sitting on tons of cash and with consumption low, they don't need to hire! Taxation will actually give corporation an incentive to pursue what they do best, make money! In business terms, taxation will create a liability that must be satisified and lower their revenues which means I got to make some more money! Sounds simple enough? Cause it is!
Amen Ben. Amen.
Thank you Ben for stating the most basic ingredient missing from economy discussion. Consumers!
Say I have a successful restaurant. With all the jobs lost and uncertainty, people have cut back eating out.
First I find that since enough people aren't eating in the restaurant, food is going to waste, so I cut back on orders from other business like the grocery, linen service and butcher.
We still get enough customers at dinner, to keep the restaurant over, but not enough at lunch. The lunch staff doesn't have enough work to keep them busy, so I'm going to have let half of them go, so those still working the lunch shift have enough work to keep them busy.
Since cutting back on the cost of supply services, and firing 25% of my staff, the restaurant is making a profit. I get a tax break too, but like other profits, it goes into the bank. Or I give myself a bonus as the owner, and put it in my personal bank account.
Using this simple example, the only factor that would make me hire more people, and be a better customer to other business, is to have more customers/consumers.
Tax loopholes are just extra cash I don't need to invest in my business.
Americans were tricked into this situation with the dangling carrot of a third party. What we got was more extreme right wingers. Now comes more talk of a new third party. This is the type of trickery that is being used against to people today. Has the best interest of the people been forgotten? Only on the right.
There is genuine foment on the ground in WI and other formerly union strong areas that have been subject to Republican over-reach. Organizing would be damn near second nature to them. But they lack a crucial element. The Tea Parties have the Koch bros to underwrite them. Osama bin Laden supported the Taliban groups with his considerable fortune.
There is no-one doing like service for the protestors against Republican over-reach. No-one writing the checks and co-ordinating. If there was, they would form the nucleus of a strong labor social justice through economic developement party (unwieldy-ass thing to call it, but it does exist yet if it ever will so no worries.)
Bare minimum, an 8th grade education should be able to process that one of yours. Like the hand in front of their faces , Pass the smelling salts please. Thank you very much. Or , to the Tea Baggers , Muck U very fuch !
Proves the tea/GOP is not focusing on jobs just themselves.
I'm wondering why no one in the media will ask the obvious questions regarding the role of the Bush era tax cuts and outsourcing involving the record national debt.
What if Bush never made those tax breaks??
Would the Clinton attack one the budget be paying dividends now?
According to the CBO, had the Bush tax cuts not been implemented our national debt would have been PAID OFF in 2006. By 2011, our nation would have experienced a surplus of $2.6 trillion dollars! Can you imagine our nation ACTUALLY being debt free with money to spare? Oh and for anyone getting ready to scream, what about the wars. The future surplus would have keep our finances in the black, even with the wars!
very simple: ...the budget would look much better than now - if you want to have a balanced budget you have to pay for your today ordered things (e.g. a war against iraq) also today. people have to learn that partying today should not be payed by the next generation and/or by hope of economically success...
And the CBO report doesn't just look into the past to say what might have been. It also says that repealing the Bush tax cuts today would allow us to have a balanced budget in 2016, just 5 short years from now. And that STILL includes those ridiculous wars! But no, can't make the billionaires all unhappy with telling them that the "welfare for the rich" program is ending. Instead, we're going to tell the seniors, the poor, the disabled, the average worker, that they are too greedy, that they need to have social programs they depend on to survive and even improve their lot in life, from Social Security, to Medicare and Medicaid, to student loans, cut so that billionaires don't get a sad face!
Still crying about that one? You talk about tax cuts to billionairs but Obama wants to raise taxes on those earning more than 250K a year. That's a good living, but not exactly rich! Most of those people have earned it the hard way and their money shouldn't be up for grabs IMO.
So the millionaires and billionaires should be exempted too? Who SHOULD pay taxes?
Why don't we all pay taxes, Don. I would prefer a sales tax so that all the illegals, self employed, etc. pay as well.
We pay sales taxes here in Oklahoma. Its just a cute way to hurt the people who aren't able to afford much to begin with. The only people who don't pay payroll taxes are those who get paid in cash only, undocumented or not.
Lots of millionaires don't however. They are called HINT. High Income No Tax. But you are right. The govt really should concentrate on getting money from where its NOT. And they should get fresh water from hilltops, blood from stones, and gold from thin air.
There are a lot of people who don't pay any tax to the federal government, and still get money back. However, we all use the services, and some more than others.
There are also a lot of illegal aliens living better than me, Don and pay absolutely nothing! Crawl out from under your rock and become part of the real world! It's not always a pretty place.
I would really like to know where all these poor people are Don? We have a social welfare programs that hand out cell phones, pay for food and shelter. Not having a new pair of Nikes don't make you poor. There are charitable organizations that also take care of many.
Why do you want to penalize people who are successful? What kind of message does that send? Geez, are your successfulaphobic?
Take your own advice.
Why should everyone else pay the taxes of some millionaire or billionaire?
What fresh crap is this? What are you talking about? Prove it, back it up.
Better yet...go back under the rock.
Don you have painted the picture of the poor illegal immigrant that gets 10 cents an hour. Many are self employed in the construction industry and landscape industry and restaurant business. I'm not saying the work is easy, but the last one that ran into my car, was driving a nicer car than I had. And, he got to drive away (with no driver's license), he didn't have insurance, and didn't show up for court! There are a broad range of people here illegally, some very poor and unskilled, others not so much. But none pay income tax!
Unless they get paid exclusively in cash, they pay taxes. Shut up and get a nicer car.
Now you are catching on....its a cash business....
Ah, an explanation of your hatred of illegals...one hit your car and disappeared! And they were driving a nicer car than you! Sounds like a case of envy to me.
If being hit by an uninsured driver who then takes off justifies hatred of them, I guess I should hate all Pennsylvanians. I grew up in New York state, and Pennsylvania didn't require auto insurance at the time. It was very common for someone from PA to have wrecks in NY, and when the time came to pay for the damage, SURPRISE, no insurance. You were on your own to pay for the damage, unless you wanted to spend thousands on a lawyer to sue them. When I lived in VA a few years ago, you also didn't need auto insurance...just pay $500 a year to the state, and you were off the hook.
As for you anger at people who don't pay taxes...does that extend to corporations? Two-thirds of them paid no income tax at all last year, and many, like GE, got billions in tax refunds. Yet, as you point out, they use the services provided by taxes. Are you going to call them out as leeches too, or does that go against your right-wing, immigrant-hating ideology? Or does it extend to millionaires and billionaires that pay no more in social security taxes than I do because of the cap on earnings, but will receive many, many more dollars a month from Social Security when they retire? Should Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Mitt Romney and the gang get so much more in Social Security benefits when they haven't paid in any more than me? Aren't they leeches?
Yeah, but they are rich leeches and since they are Republicans and conservatives, ITS ALL OKAY.
She's got no problem with paying for the taxes of millionaires and billionaires like she's some kind of serf, or for American men and women to get blown to pieces overseas, or to keep men and women incarcerated...she's all good with that.
But when it comes time to pony up for the least of them who Jesus spoke of, to pay for public education which would give kids a chance to go to college rather than prison...well that's something she is just entirely opposed to on principle. Mammon is her shepherd, she shall want...
It's like the old saying: If you're poor, you're called crazy if you act odd; if you're rich, you're just "eccentric". It no longer amazes me how many people are not only willing, but eager, to be subservient to whatever corporations and the rich demand. Cut my benefits that keep me alive so a corporation can continue to not pay any taxes? Sure, please master, let me do this for you. Take away my voting rights so that corporations can buy elections? Your wish is my command, oh great one! If Katy lived back in the 14 century as a serf, she'd practically be begging for the lord of the manor to beat her and take all she grew in taxes.
It's apparent Washington is broken. It's not Obama's fault but it's crumbling on his watch with the House from Hell to try work it out. Our government doesn't work no matter who sits up there.
Don, "and get a nicer car" wasn't totally necessary. :)
Why is Washington broken? Because the two political parties have starkly, diametrically opposed about how to govern. For dems, governing is about working with opponents, trying to find common ground for a reasonable compromise. For repubs, governing is about eliminating your opposition by any means possible, legal or illegal, and the acquisition of total power, even at the expense of the rest of the nation you strive to govern.
In another time...opposing thoughts and policies were for balance...we have so fallen off the beam... it's pathetic.
Corruption at it's finest...
If I can't rule the world, I'll destroy it! For Hitler, that was his personal view of gotterdamerung, for repubs, it's simply their philosophy of governing.
Uff, get serious. The dems are about compromise. What world were you living in with the Obama care fiasco? They are all the same.
No hatred here of immigrants, but I don't care too much for illegals and people who break the law. I expect everyone to pay their fair share. You guys are living under a rock if you think everyone here illegally is poor. What is wrong with them chipping in, especially if they are making good money?
Like a fart in the wind this...
So much time, so little class..
Katy, if they are being expected to "chip in" as you put it, (and since they pay sales taxes, they already chip in), then what are you prepared to give them in return? I understand that the repub philosophy is to demand that the other side give everything and to give nothing in return, but in the real world, there is no way a rational person would willingly "chip in" some of their hard-earned cash to get nothing in return, unless you are giving to a charity.
I'm not sure why you are implying dems didn't compromise on healthcare reform. For example, dems wanted a single payer system. That was taken out immediately on the insistence of repubs. Then they wanted a government option. That died too, due to repub demands. Then there was the proposal to eliminate the anti-trust exemption for insurance companies. Again, that was killed by repubs. So, in the end, what did we get? It's a law that is mostly shaped by repubs, a law that hands 40 million new customers to health insurers, certainly a big win for their industry. If dems truly didn't compromise on healthcare, they'd have demanded a single payer system, and rammed it down the throats of the repubs. So please don't try to scam us into believing that the healthcare law is a result of uncompromising dems. It is in fact a horrendous compromise, but still one that saves a trillion dollars in the next decade.
Uffy, she doesn't even know what she's talking about let alone us trying to decipher it. Comments that come from the bowels of stupidity...*shakes head*
She's dim enough to think I was complimenting her for a sense of humor, when in fact, I was intimating that she was like a bad movie, one that doesn't even know how bad, and hence, how hilarious it really is. She is a joke, because the things she says are just so goofy, yet proclaimed with such earnestness, that you can't help but let out a belly laugh at their inanity.
UFF
a Alan smiffie produced movie.
She's like a movie shown on MST3K. I just know Tom Servo's head would explode if he had to listen to her for too long!
She is rarely on topic and really is only about hijacking this blog into getting us to respond to her bull@!$%# posts. We can't help it because of that "goofy" to which you refer. It's bait...I want to call it bait and tell her to stay on topic or shut up.
It is funny until she becomes personal and hateful.
In the mean time...I found this quote from a piece by Dennis Jett,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-jett/gop-plan-cause-recession_b_877428.html
As I said on another thread, it really doesn't matter who is in the White House after next year. Congress can make or break any President, and currently, the House in particular is set on destroying this President, even if it means taking the entire country down to do so, even if it means bringing impeachment charges that even they admit they can't conjure up. The big focus has to be on winning back the House and extending the margin in the Senate. If Obama is still President after the election, a dem-controlled Congress can support him when he comes through with some good legislation, or hold his feet to the fire when he proposes bad legislation. Similarly, they can stop a repub president from pulling a Walker and sending down odious bills that would further wreck the country and the middle class.
Not as "dim" as you think Uff. Let me see, what do illegals get in return. Well, they drive on our roads, go to our schools, spend time in our prisons, benefit from our infrastructure. That should be enough, since they don't bother to follow our rules and apply for citizenship.
Who's dim?
LOL
so i see you are part of the Witt family. you being Dim-Witt
And corporations get the same benefits, except for spending time in our prisons, since they are "better" individuals than us flesh-and-blood types. Two thirds of them paid no income taxes at all last year, and in fact got billions in refunds. So, who's the real leech here?
Dim, yep, you seem eager to prove it with every post, just as you did above. Congrats on keeping your verbal pratfalls coming!
Dimmer than we all think...and there's the proof. Too funny!
Must be lunch time in Texas for her to share with us like this.
Worthless and childish comment.
Katy, may you rot in hell, if one undocumented Mexican hits your car...then EVERY undocumented Mexican is just like that one right?
Just like how those little bastards in Mississippi who brutally murdered that black man by running him over are just like their grand parents and great grandparents who lynched black men women and children under the robes of the KKK and conducted campaigns of murder and intimidation as White Citizens Councils which both Haley Barbour and you applauded. Why Haley Barbour is just like that too isn't he? And coming from Mississippi, you must be like that too. Everyone from Mississippi who is white is a murderous racist. You better run. Cops is coming after you. Any black folks turn up dead in your neighborhood, they are gonna know you did it, 'cause you are a white racist from Mississippi. Everybody knows how you are.
Just like how you know how all Mexicans are, documented or otherwise.
"Cops IS coming after you"!!! Really?
BTW, I'm not from Mississippi but I did drive through there once.
Sometimes people get something in their head and it just rattles around in there even when they've been told a dozen times its wrong!
By the way, who said anything about Mexicans? I said illegals!
Yeah, I'm sure you were talking about the massive influx of illegals from Sweden into FL!
Yes, we have seen how you are intimately familiar with that state of mind by your posts.
Maybe we can nickname Katy "Rattle", or for the latino crowd, "Maracas".
:) Excellent Uffy
Seems like "Rattle" is getting confused by all the myriad lies she has been telling.
More disgusting spew. I also read where she said she didn't grow up in Mississippi...could be she never grew up at all?
Here's the deal folks...part of the newsvine CoH is the following:
The bulk of her posts are fighting and negative remarks with other viners on this blog ...she only posts here and not elsewhere on the vine and it's always the same right wing spew...the staff has chosen to leave her alone save for a suspension here and there for exhibiting that vile negativity. So be it. The bulk of her posts are not worthy of much more than suggesting they are immature, ignorant, negative or just flat out baiting. There's no debating or conversation there. We really cannot learn anything from her... Something organic there people...in my opinion. Maybe we should just feel sorry for her and leave it at that.
.she only posts here and not elsewhere on the vine and it's always the same right wing spew.
yes you can also see this on ED`s and Lawrence`s Blogs as well.
She made a game out of my father's suicide. She's forfeited any claim of sympathy from me.
The one thing we can learn from Rattles is how NOT to behave, how NOT to be a destructive and hateful person. As such, she serves as an excellent negative example, and should be treated as such.
History of her posts, in my opinion, seem to indicate something is really off...more than just being a right wing, religious Republican from the south. Why she is here, or what her motives may be will never probably be known. I just think it's possible, from her posts, in my opinion, that something is really way off either emotionally or mentally.
I am not from Mississippi, one set of my grandparents were! In case you don't get it, your grandparents can be born one place and move to another place before you are ever born! Someone needs to get out more....
Uff, calling me "rattles" is against the COH.
Whatever Katy, the CoH is what it is. Those are exactly your words.
Totally inappropriate and childish remark.
Republicans keep talking about government spending as a percentage of GDP but if our GDP doesn't grow, wouldn't spending consume a larger percentage even if it stayed constant? I could agree with the argument we don't need increased revenues if only the GDP was growing at a healthy rate.
That's the problem! Without appropriate growth, GDP will continue to lag and merely cutting spending will worsen our situation. TONS of experts have been trying to say this for months! If a tax increase is implemented, it should have a sunset provision that would expire as GDP Spending and Revenues begin to narrow! Currently GDP spending is 25% with only 18% revenues! That margin is to large and our situation is pretty bad, but cutting spending would address the gap; in theory! But here's the reality, reduced spending in GDP in a weak ecnoomy will only further drive revenue down. This will cause these two components to never met up! Plus, our nation would contract financially but with a population of over 300 milliion that means disaster!
Porter Stansberry Research - The End of America
Maybe lawmaker salaries/benefits should vary as a percentage of the GDP?
Tie them to median wages (not median family income, please note: that's been held up by an increase in hours worked.)
Hmm-we tired a meek stimulus and got this lame "growth', the Brits went all cuts and got 1/2 the growth we did. Now lets see all cuts gets you 0.2% growth-very modest stimulus (which was mostly 'back fill rather than new jobs) gets just over 0.4.%
Seems to me short term SERIOUS targeted spending will push us up to 1.5 or 2% perhaps more if you go for construction with 'buy American' provision.
But hey, I'm one of those loon lefties who does not think capitalism is a form of government-so what do I know?
Last night's segment on infrastructure summed it up very nicely. This is where we should go, especially considering the shape ours is in, but very little discussion on this. Instead we spend too much time covering what the Tea Party says... a number that now totals 19% of all voters, BTW.
And speaking of little discussion, where's the coverage of Joe Walsh's back child support? We heard about Wiener's wiener constantly, and a dead beat dad is much worse. What's up with that?
You said it....
Please read my comment above and respond. Please and thank you.
Gross domestic product (GDP) refers to the market value of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given period.
According to the chart we are back to where we first fell of thecliff. At least production wise.
How wonderful, production is up, profits are up, Wall Street is up! Now all we need to do is get that pesky government spending under control and we are good, right?
According to the rich and the GOP that's right.
But for you and me here in the Real World things appear a little different don't they?
No jobs, unemployment ran out, the house mortgage is underwater.
But the Tea Party is worried about the debt, so we have to cut spending and lose more jobs or they will crash the economy and kills even more jobs than spending cuts will cost us.
How many times have you heard, "Job Killing?"
That seems to be the sole purpose of the Tea Party.
Crazy Kids Love Michelle Bachmann:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/pajaroentertainmentltd/demon-possessed-kids-love-michelle-bachmann-31ii
The burning and the necrotizing fasciitis means its working, leave those tax cuts alone! [*flashing sarcasm alert!*]
The purpose of the tea party is to act as the unthinking base for a group of super rich folks who want to control everything. They are tired of having their will thwarted by the fact that they are outnumbered at the polls. Now they have their tools in control of the House they can achieve their purpose with minimal disruption to their lives and cause every one else enough discomfort that when they come to the rescue the rest of us will lap up their crumbs.
invade poland? or get someone to bomb pearl harbor again. it worked the last time around... ( i'm not serious) Seems a war is the only time america is allowed to deficit spend? dumb. the Koch brothers; an their ilk are betting on wall street, selling short( big$$$ if the market tanks) and then they will take the cash, and buy up treasury bonds paying really high interest rates, and lock them in for 30 years, and the rest of us poor schmucks will be stuck paying for their wall street rip-off scams, schemes, and legalized robbery. so what else is new?
If war was that stimulative the the Vietnam War and Desert Storm would have done wonders for our economy. Wars destroy economies. I'm sure Bush and Cheney thought war would fix our economy just fine, so they literally doubled down on it. WRONG!!!
World War 2 was good for our economy because it forced FDR to engage in deficit spending...massive deficit spending...to invest in infrastructure and manufacturing. It worked so well that it pulled America out of the Great Depression entirely and into the greatest economic expansion ever known. You don't need a war to do that, and because Bush cut taxes and all of our manufacturing is now done overseas, there was no similar boost. Just the expected double wide hemorrhage.
To get our nation back in good order we would need to engage in deficit investing again, in infrastructure and manufacture - NOT WALL STREET! But as any blind man can tell you, there's no political will for that kind of thing. Merely suggesting it will get one drawn and quartered in the Beltway.
Hey, if they (the idiots in DC) would spend $1 trillion on actual infrastructure, I'd be all for it.
But I'm absolutely NOT OK with another stimulus package like the last 2 (or 3 counting the bank bailouts), which in retrospect were ill-conceived, poorly executed, and generally a waste of resources.
I am so angry with D.C. people right now, but I can't spare the energy to be angry, because I'm so worried about what the impact of all their buffoonery is going to be. Even a reasonable assessment of impact, assuming they pass a debt limit increase, means higher interest rates, falling wages, weaker dollar, tighter credit, more inflation on food and energy. All that means life gets harder and money tighter for people like me.
My wife and I are getting by OK for now, we were doing a lot better than OK before the price of food went up 30%...now, we have maybe 5 or 7% slack in our budget. but if things get much worse, I'm going to have to drop out of school and find a job...which might well mean that I never go back.
I got this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.
Worth reading. Consumer spending is down. Anyone surprised?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/07/29/bloomberg1376-LP3HE03T6SSJ01-1KU3L7AEKVBCJ9RJDF1GBGEBT5.DTL
If there was an investment in infrastructure, the guys on the construction crews then have money to spend on new pickups, restaurant meals, new clothes for the kids. The dollar spent on infrastructure circulates and grows exponentially. Cutting this spending is economic disaster. There are fewer dollars to circulate, thus the economy contracts. I learned this in high school economics class, and I was not the only student in that class. Did not everyone study this? What in the world is wrong with these tea partiers? Lack of education? Increase education funding. I'm afraid the answer is that you can't fix stupid.
Overall GDP isn't the most important factor. I think it's distribution is even more important at this time.
Here is a good indication of the nature of this recovery
Overall GDP isn't the most important factor. I think it's distribution is even more important at this time.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/corporate-profits-share-of-pie-most-in-60-years-2011-07-29?dist=countdown
Here is a good indication of the nature of this recovery
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6128/5982907917_e86b5d32dc.jpg
Another comment on something the Author said "Healthy recovery would be 2-3% growth". 2-3% Growth during normal times might be okay - but coming out of a recession like this 2% growth is still a lot of pressure on the labor market. You need 2.5% growth and add 250k jobs per month just to account for population growth and people who are coming into the workforce.
For any kind of Jobs recovery you need growth that adds 350k+ jobs per month. We lost 8 million jobs during the recession - assuming 200k new jobs per month are necessary to just break even - Here is a table that shows how many months it would take to get the 8 million people back to work, depending on the rate of jobs added per month
300k jobs/month 80 months or about 7 years
400k jobs/month 40 months
500k jobs/month 27 months
600k jobs/month 20 months
700k jobs/month 16 months
800k jobs/month 13.5 months
900k jobs/month 11.5 months
What a joke these people need to all be removed from office It purely is an attempt to run the clock down and blame each other I am ashamed that these people represent the country I can just imagine what other countries are saying My hope of any of this being resolved is very uncertain and each day they drag this on is another day wasted George W Bush created this mess and I am sick of the Republicans to say we cant blame him He would have to been stupid to cut taxes knowing the baby boomers were going to start retiring or did he do this on purpose to destroy this nation I listen to these experts who say you cant blame him he hasnt been the President for three years but turn around and say oh Barack Obama voted against the Debt Ceiling when he was a Senator TiT for TAT TIT for TAT and on and on Get over it and deal with other problems that are effecting the people you REPRESENT If they dont pass it and they get paid what an atrosity that is going to be Stop robbing the poor to pay off your idiotic things you spent this on both parties End the Circus
If we replace them all with rich people, we will have gotten nowhere and fast.
It really isn't that complicated, but if you don't know....someone has to tell you.
Hedge Funds, banks and other financial speculators have attacked Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, Irish and Italian Bonds using “naked”(no skin in game) Credit Default Swaps (a type of derivative) to crash these economies. The objective is to drive these countries into technical default and force them to sell their “crown jewels”. You know, airports, seaports, Parthenon etc. This is economic warfare/terrorism. The sad truth is that none of these governments has banned the use of “naked credit default swaps”. When you see a real army coming over the hill you rally your own troops to form a defense, but it seems that when financial weapons are used governments choose not to defend themselves. The peoples of these countries know that they are being attacked and are demonstrating in the streets.
We are seeing a similar attack on the United States. The difference is that some of our elected officials are acting as agents for the Hedge Funds, Banks and large corporations. The strategy is to drive us into technical default, engineered austerity by contraction of the money supply and high rates of unemployment - an engineered depression. Unless our elected officials decide to defend us there can be no recovery only a deepening depression!
The good news is that we can have a recovery any time we want it.
1) We need to see Wall Street forced to pay their fair share through a Tobin tax or Wall Street Sales Tax of 1%, with half the proceeds kept by the US Treasury and the other half distributed to the states to stabilize budgets and protect social services.
2) We need a jobs program in the New Deal FDR tradition, all financed by 0% federal credit from a nationalized Federal Reserve.
3) Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, jobless benefits, and other vital programs do not need to be cut at all, but increased! Cuts in these programs will not reduce the deficit, but they will kill Americans. Such cuts represent a veiled form of genocide. We can save money by ending all the wars, including the fiasco in Libya.
4) We must have the most toxic derivatives — including credit default swaps and collateralized debt obligations — banned, as they were from 1936 to 1982.
5) Let's stop the fraudulent home foreclosures for the duration of the depression or 5 years whichever is shorter – the banks can use some of the trillions we gave them to pay for the mess they created.
Even savages like the Romans understood the need to have government provide a welfare state, even with open slave trade and public death matches. The problem with your logic is that, your ideas support the New Deal. This is what Tea Partiers and conservative republicans are trying so hard to undo. They know very well that their proposals benefit no one but the affluent. Kill the social safety net and everyone will be begging for jobs. Sweat shops, share cropping, slave wages and all.
And a major piece missing from the puzzle...non-Wall Street economic developement. It was WW 2 itself that pulled America out of the Great Depression. It was the massive deficit investment in infrastructure and manufacture that it made necessary. It hasn't been replicated in all the wars since, but it doesn't require a war to do it.