Zora, what makes this barbaric and unbecoming of a nation that constantly proclaims its exceptionalism is not that his undermines the rule of law it's that it is the rule of law.

Also of note is that the law has built-in exceptions and protections (clemency, pardons, etc.) that were once routinely used to remedy instances of judicial extremes not directly covered by the law. Sadly, democrats are too feckless to use them, and republicans too blood thirsty to see the value in mercy.

As I understand it usually when someone is "sentenced to death" they are supposed to have been proven "beyond a shadow of doubt" to have committed the crime for which they will loose their life.

As Mr. Davis was convicted by insufficient "evidence" and the fact that most of the witnesses have either recanted or were coerced - this leaves DOUBT!! The fact that he is a black man accused of killing a white cop, in GEORGIA - means he won't get the "justice" that he should get! The fact that America supposedly prides itself on "Justice" has flown in the face of the "Justice" meted out in America between white/black and haves/have nots - the hypocrisy has a stench!

Amen.

I completely agree... capital punishment is the act of a barbaric nation. And, I think that in this case, it is murder!

Because people don't realize that revenge is not the same as justice.

Faux, That was just about the most horrifying killing I had ever heard of. I had mercifully forgotten it until you mentioned it in your post.

IMO, the perpetrators were very fortunate to get a death sentence, which is much too kind for the hideous torture and murder they committed.

And yes, I agree with you completely about Mr. Byrd's son.......what a remarkable human being.

I really do not see how you arrived at the conclusion that Troy Davis is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I read nothing in the Wikipedia entry that shows conclusively that he is guilty. It is a horrible thing to execute someone who,in all likelihood, is innocent.

So WHERE in this wikipedia link do you see "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?" 90% of the witnesses have recanted -- I think that would be a reasonable doubt -- jeez...

sorry for the repetition...

There is more than enough doubt in this case and procedural violations there is only one reason this execution is going foreward.

Yes because who better to go find credible and reliable facts from than Wikipedia..... -_-

Furthermore I'm pretty sure if you were just hours away from getting the dirt nap and you continued to claim you didn't commit the crime, you'd cry for a polygraph test yourself. It wouldn't be pseudoscience then.

According to the defense, seven of the original nine eyewitnesses who had linked Davis to the killing subsequently signed affidavits changing all or part of their trial testimony. Several stated they had felt pressure by police to implicate Davis. New witnesses implicated Sylvester "Redd" Coles in the crime. The appeals were denied with state and federal courts declaring that Davis had not provided a "substantive claim" of innocence and that the recantations were unpersuasive. In July 2007, September 2008, and October 2008, execution dates were scheduled, but each execution was stayed shortly before it was to take place.

In an August 2010 decision, the conviction was upheld by the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Georgia, which described defense efforts to upset the conviction as "largely smoke and mirrors". Subsequent appeals, including to the Supreme Court, were rejected, and a fourth execution date was set for September 21, 2011. Over 650,000 people signed petitions urging the Georgia Board of Pardons and Paroles to grant clemency. Following a hearing, the Board denied him clemency,^[1] and on September 21, 2011, the Board denied a request to reconsider its decision.^[2]

Stephanie, if you are Christian, or Jewish, please remind yourself of Exodus 20:13.

It is actually cheaper to keep someone in prison than it is to execute them: #.Tno8v6L_zIE so your argument is completely wrong.

"if the person being executed, murdered your loved one, you would be begging to be the one to put the needle in his arm" This is obviously not true. See the example of Mr. Byrd's son above. Ultimately, though, I don't think it is a matter of cost, or of different understandings of what is justice, but rather that we as humans (and, as an extension, any justice system that depends on human judgement) are far too fallible to deal out an irreversible punishment.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/#.Tno8v6L_zIE

not sure why the link got cut

Maybe you should check on the cost of an inmate for life and an execution. It cost more to execute than incarcerate. Many, many legal hurdles to jump. It is nice to know you have no qualms about execution even when the person could be inocent. It has happened, and will continue to happen. Oregon has executed 2 know to be innocent. TX has 4 and another 76 were exonerated prior to execution. Our judicial system is far too flawed to have capital punishment. It needs to be abolished for good. You also might like to know, Georgia, because of federal siezure of there "leathal" drug smuggling confiscated all their drugs, they are now using a drug developed for animals and states "not for human use".

Well stephanie since when did we put a price on a persons life. The phrase"using my tax dollars" is tired and old. Republicans like yourself (i can tell in the way you spoke) always bring that up when it comes to helping fellow" Americans"; whether it be incarcerated inmates, medicare,medicaid, or welfare. Fact is if they took away all of these (what you republicans call) hand-outs, you wouldn't see a line on your next check that reads; $500.00 more because we cut these programs. The government would just find something else to spend it on. We ALL PAY TAXES!!!! AMERICA is suppose to be ONE NATION UNDER GOD, with love and support of thy brothers. I bet when there where natural disasters like the one here in JOPLIN MO. and New Orleans that there were plenty of REPUBLICANS in line with INDEPENDENTS,and DEMOCRATS waiting for "government hand-outs".(FEMA) There are more important things in life to worry about than how tax dollar you will never see are spent when people lives are at stake!!!!

You do not have the moral high ground when you become a murderer in order to take out a murderer- you literally just put yourself into a logical paradox and have convinced your brain not to question the doublethink. If you were a robot your brain would have exploded.

How sad that you feel this way, Stephanie. If someone commits a crime, that person must face the consequences. But in the case of Troy Davis, there is more than enough doubt as to his guilt or innocence that is wrong to execute him. Clemency means he stays in prison - not that he is pardoned and freed. Almost everyone in our society is struggling financially right now ( my husband did not have a regular job for 2 years and it took us 5 years to pay off our debts). So being financially strapped is no excuse for a lack of compassion.

Blackstone's Formulation

What if the person did not commit the offense that they are executed for? There have been enough people released from prison after false convictions for me to completely distrust the process. If I had herd of only one case of someone being executed and later found to be innocent that would have been enough to sway me on the issue. I am still not completely against the death penalty (Ted Bundy comes to mind), however it should not be applied in a situation where there is any doubt at all. If the doubt is alleviated he can always be executed latter, if it is confirmed after the execution what then?
As to the victim's family I can understand their need for vengeance, but, think of what they would feel if they had participated in the execution of an innocent person and the guilty person is, by necessity, free? What about the family of the innocent person executed by the state? What do we say to them? Where is their justice?

What do you consider swift? WA had one, the person confessed, ask to be executed fast. The state kept the appeals going for 15 yrs. There was nothing to appeal, he confessed. Is that justice? Is that cost effective? is that swift enough? Average stay on death row is 15 yrs. That's with 5 inmates/guard, 24/7 suicide watch. Other inmates have 1 gaurd/50 inmates. Don't sound very cost effective.

I'll go with the last part of your question.

I'd personally like all red SUV drivers to be drawn and quartered.

IMO the punishment should fit the crime. Death by needle is too humane. Let the perpetrators die the way they made their victims die.

If that sounds too bloodthirsty, so be it. I am not a very nice person. I am thinking of the James Byrd, Jr. case, and others that are so unthinkable and beyond the pale, that the mind can barely comprehend the atrociousness of the act.....

Joybar doesn't know what the meaning of "justice" is

Perhaps not, but I do know the meaning of Karmic justice.

So the legal system is supposed to implement Karma? Ugh if you know what Karma means then you know that this is impossible.

I am not opposed to executions per say, but pretending like you have the high ground for taking the "an eye for an eye" measure is just insane. Hurting someone because they hurt someone else nets you out at 0. 0 is not justice, joy.

OMG, Mouser. I was not taking the "moral high ground". I was simply stating how I feel. Nor, did I intimate that Karmic Justice should be implemented into our legal system, altho the way I phrased it, I can see where you could interpret it that way.

Karma is the law of action and reaction, as you know. It can be a quick reaction, or it can take many years to take effect. But sooner, or later, an action is followed by a reaction. This reaction can be specific to the action - or it can be in the same area..

I guess I was thinking that the people who put James Byrd Jr. through that unimaginable hell would never know what he went through unless they had to go thru it themselves, and that a needle wouldn't be enough to show them their own inhumaneness.

However, according to Karmic Law, eventually they will learn that themselves.

So sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I guess I should have re-thought my post before I typed it. I must have sounded like a barbarian.

I wasn't trying to be a dick in my response joy, I'm sorry. I know you are a very compassionate person from the many, many posts you've put here on Maddowblog. I was merely trying to explain that there is a difference between vengeance and justice and many, many Americans seem to not be able to reconcile those differences. You are correct- Karma will deal out it's own based on right/wrong over time. The justice system cannot do this because Karma, as a general concept, is something that can only be portioned out by the cosmos or whatever one can call God. I agree, however, that the people who put James Byrd through hell are villains. The argument I would make, if I may, is t hat they deserve not to die because of any pain they may have caused, but because society cannot risk their continued existence. One is a mere matter of fact, the other is a mere matter of emotion. Does my point seem clearer now? Again apologies for my abrasiveness- I do not know how to be anything besides blunt.

Bleh they deserve to die not because...oy

Joy you are a good person. Instead of looking at yourself as being "bad" look at yourself as being "average" when it comes to this issue. Most Americans would argue yeah if someone commits murder then kill the bastard for what he/she did. What I am trying to push from you is the realization that just because you are hurt doesn't mean the correct action is to hurt someone else back. I may slap you, bu that doesn't automatically mean you are correct to slap me back. This is something that every American struggles with (even arrogant Khangs like me ;-)). That is why the Bible talks about turning the other cheek. Such a warning does not exist for the Ghandi's of the world- it exists for you and I (not that I am necessarily ascribing to you Biblical law, just using as an example). This is because for us normals it is the most difficult thing in the world to fight against our own instincts and yes your desire to put down a murderer is not rooted in something evil, it is rooted in your desire to live and for others to live. But this also is why we have a First Amendment, as an example. Because despite how hurtful someone else's language may be the measure to which we as a citizenry measure our gallantry is by our ability to tolerate the most despicable speech imaginable. That rule- like so many others- doesn't exist because it's the easy thing to do. They exist because doing the right thing often means doing something that is beyond difficult.