Andrew Ross Sorkin, chronicler of Wall Street, pays a visit to the occupation:
“Is this Occupy Wall Street thing a big deal?” the C.E.O. asked me. I didn’t have an answer. “We’re trying to figure out how much we should be worried about all of this,” he continued, clearly concerned. “Is this going to turn into a personal safety problem?”
As I wandered around the park, it was clear to me that most bankers probably don’t have to worry about being in imminent personal danger. This didn’t seem like a brutal group — at least not yet.
But the underlying message of Occupy Wall Street — which spread to Boston, Chicago and Los Angeles on Monday — is something the big banks and corporate America may finally have to grapple with before it actually does become dangerous.
The message of Occupy Wall Street, Sorkin decides, is that people want the financial industry held accountable for what has happened to the American economy, and they're willing to go all the way to "civil unrest" to get it.
Up top, the people's mic in action, our Best New Thing in the World Today. Also on Monday's show, Michael Lewis reports on the global crisis and the street response.
Leave a Comment:
I hope/believe that changes happen when young people get involved and make a stand. The banking industry has been bilking society for far too long. I've been like everyone else and paid fees and kept my mouth shut. I hope the movement is successful and I hope there is a proposed plan of action from the protesters. It does no good to protest without a proposed solution.
It doesn't take "young people". It takes THE PEOPLE.
Stop watching this on the television and get out and take your country back.
The Kansas City event begins on Oct. 9th!
“Is this going to turn into a personal safety problem?”
If it isn't... it damn well should/will be!
Isn't this kind of rhetoric the same sort of stuff people went after Palin for after Gifford was shot? Is this kind of "mob" and talk deserving of support? I understand being upset, but is this the correct action? Of course not.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/04/1022722/-Occupy-Wall-Street:-List-of-over-200-US-solidarity-events-and-Facebook-pages
A listing of Occupy Wall Street Events throughout the country.
Both of those statements reflect the thought patterns on individuals who are a part of a ruling class that have lost touch with the reality that the people they are ruling inhabit.
And history shows that "Yes" it can be a personal safety problem
Go 99%
How is protesting not the correct action? I think the protestors need to gain way more cohesion and need to do a better job at networking, but acting like protesting to effect change is a bad idea is kind've ludicrous. I guess that's why the Tea Party Protestors were so ineffective???
Mouzer, really? I have no issue with protests, the issue I have is when people are making claims that people should be concerned about their personal safely. You support that? You really didn't get that was the aspect I was from my post referencing Gifford and Palin? I think you may just want to disagree for the sake of it.
It doesn't get more "let them eat cake" than this...bring on the guillotines....
I'm a part of Occupy LA and I see it coming together more and more rather then falling apart. It's not just young people. That's something that's been portrayed inaccurately by the press. I'm a 57 year old soon to be grandmother. We have veterans, out of work construction workers and, of course, college students, many of which can't find jobs.
People are MAD! Washington does nothing but put their interests first and the nation is floundering. It's nice to be among like minded people who are as frustrated as I am.
It's not even about clear cut goals at this time. It's about people wanting to be heard. Our elected official headed to Washington then ignored what we wanted. We want to be HEARD!
Proud of you all. I'm old, in a small town in Fla., the state so crooked they elected a thief for governor, but wish I was in LA or NYC, or Philly.
Tactical tips: fascists on fox news and elsewhere are calling you un-American, clearing the minds of right-wing retards to accept anything that might happen.
So- if you see cops take out guns, leave. Fast. Remember, the protests against the Vietnam war were ended by the murders of demonstrators.
If they use gas:-- it can make you feel like you are going to die. You are not going to die, but you may panic anyway. The way to end panic is to find someone more confused than you, or who is seized by coughing, or who has tripped and fallen, and help them. Your panic will clear away almost immediately.
Best of luck. This has been needed for a long time: so congratulations on doing it.
These protests are an inevitable reaction from a nation and a people pushed to the brink by the corporate elite and by political gridlock. Americans are fed up with the special treatment lavished on Wall Street by our elected lawmakers while the hard-working folks of this country are called names, insulted, and forced to take the brunt of "deficit reduction." Wall Street gets government bailouts and record profits while real Americans are laid off and have the government benefits long promised to them ripped away. http://www.sunstateactivist.org
mattpfl is so right. This is waht I am angry about. Our elected lawmakers are bought and paid for by the ultra wealthy and corporations and it all comes from Wall St. The elected lawmakers and Wall St. want all the average income people to pay for it. I am so tired of having medicare, social security and my small savings threatened. If they want to talk about insecurity? We the People are the most insecure. I am 72 years old. I have served my country, I have taught school for 30 years. I have raised 2 tax paying children. I deserve a little security now.
When credit card companies arbitrarily begin adding annual fees to cards out of the blue, and banks start charging their customers monthly fees if they use their debit cards, and there are 8 separate bank buildings with 3 people in each on every corner in mainstreet US, costing who knows how much in resources to run, it is time for the people to say enough is enough! banking is a utility - the system is set up so NO one can function without bank accounts, credit history and credit cards, and banks are exploiting that dependency to fund irresponsible behavior, and refusing to invest in the commonwealth of this country with a profits-over-people philosophy. If I didn't have to work to try to pay off the higher interest and added fees on my credit cards, I'd be rioting in the streets too! it is sort of an indentured servitude system, if you think about it. Even my credit union has started adding all kinds of "transaction" charges for moving my money from one account to another.
The demonstrations reflect the anger and frustration of people who watch the banks and Wall Street loot the country with the help of Congress. All of them should be afraid because the voters are angry and Congress is doing nothing to appease the anger. Obama should seize the same message and use it against the congress members of BOTH parties that are obstructing fundamental changes in the system as well as the jobs bill. Congress is bought and paid for by the special interests and unless Obama and Congress change the way business is conducted, then 2012 will bring a lot of current members in Congress down. We will see a number of upsets in the elections. I would expect that a number of legislators are going to retire because of voter anger instead of taking a stand against the special interests.
didn`t BoA just lay off 10000 workers?
so guess that wasn`t enough savings for them.
remember its now not about party but its about AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And every one of the laid off workers should be out in the streets.
Roger That!!!!!!!!!!!!
i know of a great place that all can go to start, liberty park!!!!!!!!!!
Classic response from Sorkin, worried about his personal safety rather than being concerned about the reason for these protests that are spreading like wildfire, across the country.
We are the 99% and there are a lot of us. From the unemployed or underemployed to those near retirement still supporting our college graduate waitresses, we want our billion dollar bonuses. Big wall streets steal our money with wild trading frenzy games and wonder why everyone is a bit upset.
I can't understand why people complain that these protesters have no clear agenda or goals. I hear them loud and clear, even if they can't use microphones and get minimum and delayed coverage from the MSM (that includes you TRMS). What is being said is simply, "We are fed up with corporate greed and government corruption, and you are on notice, we won't take it anymore". They are on the streets because all other means of change have been exhausted and, there is no place left to go. People in government and big business had better get ready to duck. In spite of their best efforts to ignore it and keep it quiet, the revolution has begun.
Too bad the name Insane Clown Posse has been taken, it would be a perfect name for them.
Is it a big deal? Absolutely. Despite the mockers who treat it as a neo-hippie Woodstock weekend event, it rings more true as the birth of a solidarity movement for the disenfranchised 99% of Americans who seek justice for the criminal actions of the 1% who are ruining this country, yet getting ridiculously rich in the process. They don't seem to realize it yet, but the 1% have created a monster.
It must be a big deal, or Fox News wouldn't have started bashing it so hard. This is what real grassroots action looks like, and that must drive the winger lords nuts.
If the Masters of the Universe are going to start pissing themselves this early in the game, it must be working.
Looking over the demands, I think these people are batsh1t crazy
WHAT? Why do anything?
Why is this Wall Streets problem or taxpayers?
You think unemployment is bad now?
Is this a joke? Is it April 1st? Is Ashton Kutcher coming out soon?
I know a lot on the left is mad that the Tea Party came into power quickly and really using one right from the Left's playbook too. If this is the Left's response to it, it should be pointed out how out of touch with reality these folks are. I don't agree with everything Wall Street does either, but the demands are insane.
any links to so called demands?
Here ya go:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/
Cool .....everything for free. Education, wages even if you don't work and NO debt. Only one problem. If everyone gets free money who is going to serve you a Latte at Starbucks or a Big Mac at McDonalds? Who will pick up our trash?
Im going out to max out my credit cards just in case the protesters get their demands :).
Eric, you scamp, you got me! I thought those were real demands not proposed demands. Good job. :)
Actually, thats a PROPOSED list.
Here is the list currently sought by NYC OWS
1. Repeal corporate personhood.
2. Financial tax on all investment transactions greater than 50,000.00. Hedge funds double. 401k and other middle class retirement vehicles exempt.
3. Tax breaks on all small businesses (annual revenue less than 1,000,000.00).
4. Minimum corporate tax on companies with revenue exceeding 20,000,000.00.
5. Taxes, penalties and tariffs on all companies who've moved overseas yet enjoy US property protection.
6. Change Medicare Part D (the donut hole) so the government can negotiate drug rates like the VA does.
7. Reenact financial protections started after the Great Depression and killed in the 70s (like Glass-Steagal) designed to keep banks out of the investment business.
8. Investigate, prosecute and punish the architects of our financial crisis.
9. Investigate actions under GW Bush potentially constituting war crimes (IE water-boarding) under the Geneva Convention.
10. Increase capital gains tax equal to income tax.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/detailed-list-of-demands-overview-of-tactics-for-d/
L.malone
Thanks
So when Maddow reports in a biased way to the left that's wrong, but when Eric! does it to the right it's OK? Seriously I do not understand this.
It looks like the "proposed list of demands" is a fake document posted by some random moronic fox news fascist. Here's what the site says about the "demands":
:Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands."
In other words, it's bull@!$%#e hyped by congenital serial liars like Eric.
Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement! (User Submitted)
Posted Sept. 25, 2011, 3:46 p.m. EST (15 days ago) by anonymous
Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demand
“Is this Occupy Wall Street thing a big deal?”
Of course it is! And those that are wondering why need to pay attention! This is a "big deal" because "we the people" are tired, frustrated, and angry - why? Because:
1) Corporations are NOT people - no matter what the S.C. says - the sole purpose of corporations is to make money, period! They can (& have) plundered, pillaged, and looted the economy all for their fiduciary responsibility towards the shareholders!
2) Our political system along with our politicians have been severely corrupted! Because when showered by Lobbyists & their money, you cannot tell me that your "vote" in favor of certain legislation - isn't a coincidence, IT IS A PAY BACK!! And since "politicians" are PAID by "WE THE PEOPLE" - shouldn't they really be working for US?!?!
3) People seeking "Higher Education" to better their lot in life, should not have to pay back "a mortgage" to do so! Only to now find that they cannot "find a job" that will pay them enough to live on & pay back those "loans"!!
4) Allowing for the hemorrhaging jobs to no/low wage nations may benefit "the corporation" but does NOTHING for American workers except lengthen the unemployment lines! Because while it may be "cheap" when you have to continue "replacing" the darn thing over and over, and over every few years - it ain't cheap for the consumer!
5) The fraud in the form of "exotic financial instruments" has disenfranchised thousands of people and blighted whole neighborhoods and for what the avarice of the few?!? Not to mention that WE BAILED THEM OUT, & THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN REQUIRED TO NEGOTIATE! And yet, that wasn't the case, and they went on with "Life & BONUSES as usual!! Meanwhile MAIN STREET IS DROWNING!
6) Unrestrained and unregulated "capitalism" have proven that it cannot live side by side with democracy - BECAUSE IT IS WE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE LOSING OUT!
7) Teachers, firemen, police & UNIONS - are not the ones that destroyed the American economy, nor that of the world!! And they should NOT be required in the form of lowered wages and benefits to pay for the damage caused!!
8) "WE" as a nation must must get off of this road that is destroying "our" environment, decimating our health, these never-ending wars - WE can not sustain that which is unsustainable!
9) Our children NEED US to stand with them!
10) Because WE don't want the pitchforks, torches and guillotines to start coming out!!
Deep down, we all know intrinsically that the system must change! And we as a nation can either start to implement that change from the bottom up, or we can allow what will become "the mob" to lead! Yes, change is scary, but isn't it better that we start NOW while we are calm and still thinking intelligently; rather than have "the mob" indiscriminately dominate all of US?!
Occupy Wall Street Is A “Populist” Movement (The Tea Party Is Not)
Occupy Wall Street, a protest against bank bailouts and corporate greed, is what the tea party should have been -- probably would have been -- if the movement hadn't been hijacked by savvy conservatives, bankrolled by billionaires and fictitiously portrayed as an everyman revolt.
Instead of channeling the anger and helplessness of everyday Americans, the tea party instead has argued for spending cuts that have hurt them.
Rather than calling for stricter controls on reckless Wall Street financiers, tea party members (and mainstream Republicans) have knelt at the altar of the super rich -- calling them "job creators" and defeating every proposal to increase their tax rates, which are at historic lows.
The Tea Party is larely against Gov't waste. A recent Gallup Pole shows that Americans believe Gov't wastes 0.50 of every dollar.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/149543/americans-say-federal-gov-wastes-half-every-dollar.aspx
To lay this solely at Wall St. is silly.
LOL
Nope the tea party is noting more then a bough and paid for movement by the Kockroach bros and klan. to bad no matter how you want to try and spin it, it just keeps coming up a NON grass roots party!
HA! Keep saying that just like you did prior to Nov. 2010, see where that got you. The truth will set you free.
LOL
I will cause of things like this. as any body that has taken a donation from them which means any of there backed and supported with money tea parties.
NJDC Demands Perry, Others Return "Iran-Tainted" Koch Donations
Eric this post did not make sense. People's perceptions of what money is being wasted and what actually is being wasted are two different things. The study does not explain if the people taking the survey even knew what the breakdown of each US dollar is- only that they perceived that every dollar was spent incorrectly. This doesn't even explain what the perceived incorrect expenditures are. So what if the majority of American's believe that 50cents are wasted by the government- if the government's real terms of waste are actually less than a penny per dollar, then the perception is irrelevant to the facts. Additionally Eric! your post is a red herring. What does this have to do with the Wall Street protests? The protestors aren't saying that Wall Street is to blame for everything. Nor are they arguing that there isn't waste fraud and abuse- in fact that's one of the complaints of these protests. Additionally how does any of this have to do with the Tea Party unless we're trying to draw parallels between the two? Your post makes no sense.
The last 2 sentences were intended for Pilotshark. If we are trying to draw parallels to the Tea Party that is fine, but in this instance I do not understand.
After re-reading the comments I realize my two posts above were made in error, although slight error as that may be.
@Pilot:
I disagree because the Tea Party was never intended to be a populist movement. It was always a fringe right-wing movement funded by extremists. And because of that it was always mean to pander to fringe right-wing ideals.
100% agree
@Eric!:
My original confusion stands- I just did not word it correctly (and distinguishably) before. OK so you're arguing that TeaParty Protestors are in favor of government cuts? Guess what? Pilotshark acknowledged that TPers were in favor as much in his/her post, but what Pilotshark said was such cuts hurt the middle class (I.E., and to Pilot's point, the TPer's). So A. you Eric! are agreeing that you believe TPer's are voting against themselves like Pilot says, and therefore the initial premise of your argument makes no sense. But B. let's assume that your argument is correct- you then do not provide a study that defines "wasteful spending" so therefore the poll which you link to is utterly useless. This was the broader point I was trying to speak to in my 1st post, but failed to address accurately.
So to Pilotshark I am sorry for snarking at you for bringing up the Tea Party- after re-re-reading I get your point now (sorry I didn't initially), but to Eric! yous till have to justify how your study in any way argues that Tea Party protestors are serious about debt. TY for allowing me the correction. G'night!
*you still
Mouzer here is a small smattering of Gov't waste. Why do we think Gov't can spend our money better than you, me or anyone but the Gov't can? Not to mention the overlapping Gov't agencies, and on and on. Before we ask anyone to pay more, let's have Gov't tighten it's belt and be accountable.
http://www.newser.com/tag/12685/1/government-waste.html
Eric, please stop using everything the government has given you, because, what ever it was, it was wasted money.
E.g., this. The government created it and handed it over to the private sector, so that morons can post about how horrible the government is and how well the private sector does things.
E.g., the government pays for the roads, the private sector lays down inferior asphalt and concrete, the roads go bad, the morons say, no more money for roads or bridges.
That's America in the grip of the right wing morons, Koch lickers all.
They should worry. This is the start. Our "Better Angels" are in control at this time, but make no mistake about this, it can turn in a moment. In a perverse way I hope to see CEOs paraded through the streets in open carts on the way to the guillotine. Don't stop there though, grab their children and grandchildren and those who've they mentored, rid our society of these parasites root and branch. But I digress.
We need at the least Campaign Finance reform and severe restriction of lobbying in Washington and State Capitols. We need those culpable for this financial crash and their immediate underlings in prison, not Club Fed, but real prison in General Population for a minimum period of 20 years each. WE need then financial market regulation like was passed in the 30's and dismantled in the last 20 years. We also need a way of making the export of jobs overseas to be unprofitable.
One other thing, how about getting BoA, Citi, Shearson Lehman, and Wells Fargo to finance, interest free, the rebuilding of our Infrastructure? That would be a start.
I usually like Rachel's coverage of stories, but I found this segment to be a waste of time. It diverted the focus from an important protest movement to making an amusing little story about the "people's mic". How about focusing more on why the protesters are there in the first place, how they're being harassed by the police, and why they have to resort to using the "people's mic". Rachel, please don't turn this movement into just another fluff piece to fill time. Or better yet, how about going down to Wall Street and doing some live coverage in person?
Faces Of ‘Occupy Wall Street’
over at Think Progress.
Amen! I am one of the 99%, been unemployed and underemployed since 2008. I'm mad as Hella and was so excited about this movement, I've even join in the OccupySF demonstration ... Then I saw the demands. How disappointing! We are going to be viewed just as crazy fanatic radical as the Tea Party!
@amazon261- its not about clear goals - we just want to be heard? I share your passion, but that makes no sense.
FOCUS PEOPLE! We have their attention, it's time for a set of REALISTIC goals that are relevant to WALLSTREET -the banking industry, tax reform, manipulation of the markets for personal gain, tax cuts for the wealthy, corporate welfare, Congress/ Washington/ Supreme Court siding with Wall Street big biz over the people - there is a long list of relevant issues.
Someone with a clear head needs to take the lead so that we don't lose all the momentum we have gained. What a shame to get their attention only to look like complete psycho morons. We have valid claims - we need to focus and state clear relevant and rational demands!
I would take a guess that most of the people do not know what the demands are. I'm betting they are upset at the unemployment situation and the knee jerk reaction is to take to the streets. The more people look at the list of demands, the more this group will get viewed as crazy.
Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement! (User Submitted)
Posted Sept. 25, 2011, 3:46 p.m. EST (15 days ago) by anonymous
Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demand
Protesting is what a free country is all about! We are exercising our rights!
STORM THE BASTILLE!!!
I'd like to point out that the "lists of demands" are different for each city. To truly judge you need to look at each cities demands. I say again.. this isn't about the demands.. it's about the energy and the desire to be heard.
We live in a society of sound bites. Long winded demands? No one is paying attention. They hear "We are the 99%!" or "Make Wall Street Pay!"
Didn't the Tea Party gained momentum because they broke things down into little bits that people with little political savvy (or knowledge of U.S. History) could understand? They made a list of demands then promptly threw them out and started sticking their nose into social and voting reform.
Remember the Viet Nam era protests? There were lists of demands. Tons. But all that's remembered is "stop the war!!"
(Then the protesters grew up, got religion, and became Republicans)
So the chant should go like this:
What do we demand?!
I DON'T KNOW AND IT DEPENDS!
When do we want it?!
NOW!
Que the circus music.
Remember the Viet Nam era protests? There were lists of demands. Tons. But all that's remembered is "stop the war!!"
smiling and it did stop the war!! and that is what wall street needs to understand! its not so much the easy to remember talking points but its the Mass of We The People that can and will change this around!
and We The People are all D`s I`s R`s and wakening to facts that we are all in this together sink swim or drown!
I'd like to point out that the "lists of demands" are different for each city. To truly judge you need to look at each cities demands. I say again.. this isn't about the demands.. it's about the energy and the desire to be heard.
yes, its about speaking up and letting the voices of America be heard above all the other spin and crap they want to try.
Oh too funny! I didn't pay close attention but finally went to the website of Occupy New York and found the demands are PROPOSED. Then down at the discussion the occupiers themselves are tearing them apart.
So folks. Those aren't even final demands.. just one persons idea.
This whole movement is clear as mud. It seems like it's turning into a temper tantrum.
I think I have a handle on this as to the insanity being protested here. Even the protesters may not know their underlying reason but one thing for sure, things are not right. It's the math and the abuse of algorithms for profit that re-arranged the money in the world, it's the big white elephant everyone walks around or can't see.
Numbers don't like but people do, get this NYU professor on the show and he goes right along with what I have been blogging about for a few years. It is sadly what it is. When mathematical formulas arrange parameters on how you can function as a human being and you do not have access or nobody explains any process, yes we have problem and high tech marketing is making it worse. When you know in your heart that something is not right, ask questions as the overall belief of math proving accuracy has gone out the window with flawed and skewed studies/reports and more.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupying-wall-streetits-all-about.html
More here with how insurance companies work to "dummy you down" and collect your data. Think about this one with the examples I used, would they be doing this, of course not.
http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2011/10/insurer-software-games-continue-to-dumb.html
"Big wall streets steal our money with wild trading frenzy games and wonder why everyone is a bit upset."
i don't think they wonder at all. Honey badger doesn't give a @!$%#, he's only worried about their personal safety.
Today they tried to silence the masses by outlawing "amplification". That didn't work, so tomorrow? Perhaps severe restrictions on the people's right to peacefully assemble. Sound impossible in a "free", democratic society? I wouldn't be so sure. Nothing "they" do will surprise me anymore.
Minorly OT:
A bit closer to home and all that, but ...
How many of us who are fed up with the Big Finance do their financial business through nonprofits? I'm with a local credit union (and have been since the 70s) and USAA. It may not be a big thing, but it's something.
We have to use whatever sympathy and momentum we have to get the laws changed back to 'protection mode.' The reason they're arresting us and not the bankers is we are doing something that's against the law. The banks have the laws on their side. We have to change the laws. We have to change the lawmakers. This is a good start.
There's a theme song for #Occupy "Tilting @ Windmills"
Are the People of Wall Street safe to walk to and from work?
I don't know, measures to ensure their safety could be made by the city.
But imagine for a moment if those city officials had been bought by the protesters to weaken or abolish any laws that restricted the actions of the protesters regardless of how much it could hurt the people of Wall Street. That'd be some tragic irony.