Back on Election Night, when Mississippi voters defeated the Personhood Amendment, Rachel asked me why I had expected the opposite result. Meet the latest Public Policy Polling results:
Mississippi remains one of the most conservative states in the country when it comes to gay marriage: only 13% of voters think it should be legal to 78% who believe it should remain illegal. Even among Democrats there's only 19% support for it. Most states we poll now at least have a majority in support of civil unions but that's not the case in Mississippi- 60% of voters are completely opposed to any sort of legal recognition for gay couples with just 38% supporting either gay marriage or civil unions.
That only 78 percent of my home state is now opposed to same-sex marriage is a real change, I guess. In 2004, 86 percent of voters backed a constitutional amendment banning it. Every county went for it then -- that's the map on the left. On the right, you can see that the Personhood Amendment lost most counties, evidence that you can ban teh gay but you'd better not mess with birth control in Mississippi.
Another interesting return, from a question I kinda resent: Only 10 percent of the state backs secession. Opposition to leaving the union increases as you move up the age brackets, topping out at 74 percent in the over-65 crowd. I'm calling it evidence that people like their Medicaid and Social Security, both from Uncle Sam. The lowest level of opposition, at 50 percent, is among people who identify as "very liberal." Maybe they want to secede from Mississippi?
Full PPP returns here (pdf).
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I am always skeptical of these long surveys. Who exactly has time to answer them? I've started a couple times but 5 minutes into the poll, I gave up. Here's evidence to me that you never know (from the pdf link):
The poll has a 3.5+/- margin so in just a couple of months somewhere between 5 and 19 percent of Mississippians changed their view of inter racial marriage.
The information is interesting, nonetheless. Thanks!
The most interesting thing to me is the strip of red counties just north of the coast. Result of migration as a result of the casino development? There lies yet another scholarly paper for a PoliSci conference on top of the others this particular election will generate.
"Mississippi"
One of those oxymoron's that I so can't stand! So you can't be "gay" but you better not mess with a woman's access to "birth control"; you can get married, but don't be "gay" and there are still people that take issue with "interracial marriage", wow!! These are the same people that rank as low educated, high teen pregnancy rates, high rates of poverty - yeah, they need to turn off FAUX NOISE!!
It doesn't make sense to blame a single cable channel for a string of social problems. No matter what you think of them, they're still Americans. That means their problems are our problems. If there is some disparity in education or health between states, then it should be addressed with federal policy.
The federal government has addressed the education and health issue. It is up to the states to comply with the requirements for federal programs. That means state programs will have to be funded and that requires a tax hike. I assume education is funded by property taxes and those hikes are put up for a referendum in each school district. Since that is not feasible on a statewide basis, then the state must come up with money from taxes for education and health. I would note that federal government only specifies minimum funding requirements for education, welfare and medicaid to receive federal funds. States are free to put more money into these programs. Also, states have to partially fund various other programs to qualify for federal funds. So the question is whether Mississippi has the political will to increase taxes in one form or another. It will take bipartisan leadership to undertake increasing taxes or passing a state income tax.
GrrrlRomeo: "If there is some disparity in education or health between states, then it should be addressed with federal policy."
Undisputed truth, and precisely why Perry shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Oval Office. His first priority would be to cut the Departments of Education (for some mysterious reason - jealousy, maybe), Commerce (I think), and another one that I can't recall at the moment.
Ron Paul may be able to help you out with that last one keepintime
Mike - I find it amusing that you frame the question as do the citizens of Mississippi have the political will to increase taxes to pay for education. Why not cut other state spending and not increase taxes. The spending cuts in other areas can then be used to fund education.
They are too busy cutting spending in other areas in order to give tax cuts to the wealthy, including education.
The gay population is around 2-5%. Women are half the population. Voting on abortion means half the population is voting on their own rights, not the rights of a some other minority.
Women may be marginalized and oppressed, but all votes are counted equally. And since votes are private, a woman may go along with the social pressure to be anti-abortion in public but still vote in favor of keeping abortion legal in private.
And whatever conservative men might say, we don't really know how many are secretly glad the women they are secretly having sex with are secretly taking birth control.
People lie about how they vote, especially when their true position is socially unpopular.
A fetus is not expected to live on its own if removed before the third trimester.
Any argument in support of banning abortion before the third trimester is outside the scope of medicine, which places such an argument firmly in the realm of religion. This is an old discussion that was settled several decades ago.
Interfering with women's rights for abortion before the third trimester violates separation between church and state.
A solution that reduces abortion by providing public support, education, and birth control would accomplish a similar goal without violating the constitution and women's right to obtain medical care.
Also -- I think the gay population is about double the numbers you cited, but I'm not an expert.
I am an expert. ;) It's 2-5% nationally. Mississippi might be lower. Massachusetts might be higher. (California is actually not that high due to the size of the state.)
I guess the people in Mississippi figure there are enough farm animals around if you want to be different-
WTF is that supposed to mean?
Means someone is bleeding stupid out their fingers, I think.
A lot of work by a lot of good people in MS got the word out about how dangerous 26 really is to women. We didn't originate the thing--it started in CO. And our thanks for protecting the rights of half the state's population was to be called liars and agents of Satan by our governor-elect. Part of our problem is the Democratic Party. We aren't a swing state, so we don't get the money, and our party leadership is--well, I don't know what it is. When we're offered a strong candidate, we respond. A lot of outside conservative money comes in to our state--thank Clarence Thomas for that. He's aptly named.
The whole "South" from Texas to Florida and Alabama to Virginia is a Feudal village. Could we encourage them to secede, please? Let the "South Rise Agin" and then build a free fire hot zone around it.
I spent two long years learning what makes these people tick and there is no cure.
I have a fear of feral Southern Baptists running amok.
Going to grow crops on the Pavement in the northern Cities? South is farmland and food. Dont bite the hand that feeds you.
My only worry is what kind of neighbors they'd be.
David, do you really think there's no farms in Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois... EVERY Northern state? Do you really think Southern farmers wouldn't sell their peaches to their neighbors to the north? Hell, the peaches might be radioactive from the lack of environmental laws, but at least they'd be cheap as hell by not being taxed.
Ann Janus-3078326
The whole "South" from Texas to Florida and Alabama to Virginia is a Feudal village. Could we encourage them to secede, please? Let the "South Rise Again" and then build a free fire hot zone around it.
I spent two long years learning what makes these people tick and there is no cure.
@Ann Janus 3078326:
While I would agree with your point in the main, (I have lived my whole life in NC) there are a few sincere Southern folks who value progress and social justice; we just happen to be in the minority. I understand the sentiment you expressed, dealing with socially conservative minds closed to any and all change, (just because) can be incredibly frustrating. Just don't paint us all with that same broad brush, the South is not entirely one reactionary unitary monolith! :)
Ann Janus
Please go away.
Republican states draw more federal revenue than is collected in taxes, on average.
A law is needed to stipulate that the amount of federal revenue that any state can draw must never exceed tax revenue for that state.
That would stop all of the discussions about tax hungry Democrats without resorting to secession.
Is it me or does Mississippi really look like a character from The Simpsons?
Good eye, Jools :)
It's not you Jools.
@David-1830107....If us "Northerners" shouldn't "bite the hand that feeds us"...how about the "Southerners" paying their own way??....If I as a northerner give $1.00 to the government and only get 84 cents back in state aid/benefits...and a southerner gives $1.00 to the government and receives back $1.34 in aid/benefits....ISN'T THAT THE DEFINITION OF A WELFARE STATE???? Personally I'm sick and tired of "southerners" complaining about getting rid of "government welfare" and paying too much in taxes when ALL those southern states CONTINUALLY receive and spend MORE in Federal aid then the dollar amount per person collected...and BTW I live in Weld County in Colorado....the #1 Agricultural producing county in the entire country....and last time I looked we were NORTH of the Mason/Dixon line....
While it is true some crops are from the north, there are others that can only be grown in the south. Diversity is America's strength...and I mean diversity in geography and climate in addition to classes.
Maybe it should be noted that Laura Conaway, author of many of the articles on TRMS (including the one above), is from Mississippi. And there are lots of other fine people that come from Mississippi. Oprah Winfrey and Jim Henson.
I mean really, where would America be without Oprah Winfrey and Jim Henson? James Earl Jones, the voice of Darth Vader? Condensed milk and FedEx?
Wow, who would have thought there would be so many narrow minded, in some cases down right ignorant postings on this blog. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that regardless of your political self identification you are still capable of the sins you blame your opponent having. The sin is no less deplorable on either side.
Great comment PaPlanner. For what is supposedly liberal, caring for your fellow man kinda site, the venom and name calling makes me double check to make sure I'm not on an ultra right wing site.
Of course we have to remember that most people here think they are vastly superior than their fellow Americans. This is grade school name calling. effin pathetic...
Good comment PaPlanner. Lost on them, I am pretty sure, but good.
Laura should encourage Rachel to go South and learn, btw. Going to N.O. during the Oil Spill was good, but very insuffcient. The rest could obviously benefit as well.
I'm surprised that I don't see any link on Rachel's home page for getmoneyout.com. They have over 300,000 signatures. We need many more.
I dislike assumptions like, "older adults oppose secession, so I guess they like their Medicare and Medicaid." Isn't it just as reasonable to think that older Americans have enough sense to know that secession is a stupid subject?" Isn't fair to assume that someone can think about one or two topics at a time?
We get into deeper and deeper ruts when we lump everything together.
And we need to remember that at people who have used in vitro feritlization were opposed to the anti-abortion measure for their own unique reasons and mounted a campaign. That seems to speak loudly to the idea that new ideas or new groupings appear from time to time.
Please, let's at least try to think!
I lived in Louisiana for 30 years. Whenever a new poll came out, everyone said, "Thank God for Mississippi."
The ignorance of many in Mississippi aside(my home state btw) I am offended and amazed at the ignorance of so many who jump at the chance to belittle an entire region. There are many of us from the south who are progressive and liberal. Just because the majority votes republican doesn't mean everyone is ignorant. Surely we've all noticed that the repubs and conservatives seem to shout louder while us liberals tend to keep it to ourselves many times just in the interest of not getting into arguments with small minded people you can't convince of anything anyway. Don't show your own brand of ignorance by insulting everyone with sweeping generalizations.
Thank you
Although, I reserve the right to make sweeping generalizations about republicans!
Though, gulp, many of them are intelligent, well meaning people, I personally believe they are severely misguided...
Here is proof that there is no idea so stupid and misguided that it won't find a home in Oklahoma. They are trying to get a personhood amendment adopted HERE!
That is why my parents left Oklahoma.
I wish to God I had. My parents left here for California to be hippies on Venice Beach. During one LSD trip, they decided that I really needed to grow up knowing my grandparents...SO THEY BROUGHT ME BACK!!!
This is a PSA kids. Don't do drugs. You will make STUPID life choices just like that if you do!
Perhaps you should consider encouraging people that you know to watch Rachel.
All of my people already watch Rachel. I'm talking to them now.
"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
Just because someone is from the north does not mean they subscribe to liberal values.
There are some northern identified posters stereotyping southerners, and it's surprising because northerners are stereotyped as bleeding heart liberals that care about the plight of the poor. Oh, irony.
It's like when a northerner calls a southerner a racist, and then advocates for southern secession which would mean damning all the blacks in the south to the confederacy. Indeed, there were northerners during the civil war who thought maybe we should just let the south secede and keep slaves. These were not, and are not, progressive people.
Why wouldn't Mississippi not want to secede? They consistently take more in tax money from Washington than they send.
They are State equivalent of the Corporate Welfare grifters.
Right...because Mississippi is so rich.
The state has a poverty rate that's higher than the national average. That would be why they receive more in federal aid than they pay in taxes. States are not corporations nor the equivalent of them, nor are poor people the equivalent of rich people. That should be obvious.
Urban conservatives can be even more annoying than rural conservatives. When urban and suburban conservatives oppose wealth redistribution to rural areas, it just comes off as spiteful selfishness rather than just self-interest.
.
On average republican states consume more federal funding than they pay in taxes.
On average, republican states are less educated than democrat states.
The predominant factor influencing taxes is income, income is largely dependent on education, and education has less funding in Republican states.
Republican states are voting to have more money for themselves while adding less value.
This aspect of politics should be discussed.
Correlation doesn't imply causation.
High paying jobs tend to be in urban areas.
marriage for the most part started as a business agreement between two families and was nothing more then that. Two strangers meeting on their wedding day to have children and keep the family line and money going.... then Love changed those boundaries and people started to choose who they wanted to spend their lives with...Then we have this: The United States has had a history of marriage restriction laws. Many states enacted miscegenation laws which were first introduced in the late 17th century. But again Love changed that in 1967 and now we have no boundaries on race and marriage. And whether you like it or not Love will win this battle too. And you as the opposition will be nothing more then the bigoted close minded side that kids will learn about in history books. A measurement of how far social thinking has come. The world has been moving on and leaving the United states in the stone age.. maybe it is time to start playing catch up?
There was no such thing as marriage as we know it about 6,000 years ago.
The Torah, Christian Bible, and Koran provide a little background.
According to Genesis, Adam had Eve and Lilith as wives (plural) but there is no mention of a marriage ceremony, so technically, Adam was not married to either of his two wives in the modern sense if you read the Christian bible literally as it is written.
Adam was some kind of royal figure and most likely owned or ruled over many people in the area that is now covered by the Persian Gulf (about 13,000 years ago).
Marriage as we know it today developed during the time of Moses (about 4,000 years ago). Prior to that, people were traded like property, including wives, so Adam most likely owned his wives like indentured servants unlike modern marriage.
Money developed after Adam but before Moses at about the time draft animals were domesticated. The concept of money had no meaning before that.
There is also no direct mention of homosexuality anywhere in the bible. The whole thing about homosexuals being cursed by God is a fantasy. This discriminatory practice most likely developed in medieval Europe. My bet would be Italy around 200 year after the bible was completed because homosexuality was common among Romans prior to adoption of Christianity by Emperor Constantine. While not mentioned in the bible, homosexual discrimination was most likely passed among hebrews as an oral tradition, which is probably how Constantine picked it up. God made man in his image, and if God did not want homosexuals then s/he wouldn't make any, so it would be difficult to justify including homosexual discrimination in the Bible.
Race is another thing that is not mentioned anywhere in the bible. The whole Mormon thing about African Americans being cursed by god is also a fantasy.
The holy anointing oil described in the Torah, Bible, and Koran contains cannabis, which was also commonly used as an ingredient for incense before 1937. My bet is that this kind of thing is the reason for so many religious fantasies.
HAHA! I would not be surprised if it really was a very major factor. Pretty much any organized religion, though valid and passionately believed by its followers, can be proved no further than human imagination really. Thanks, that certainly brought a little lightness to the heavy conversation on here!
Aloha,
Hmmm... some of your info is a bit off...in reference to the roles of XX prior to the last couple three thousand years of 'modern history'. I doubt very much we were simply chattel We are amazing/brilliant survivors/pragmatists...just look at history...How did any of us make it if that weren't so?..Just in the last 50 years I have witnessed .
Matriarchies worked quite well for all! Lots of freedom. Check out Crete before the volcanic eruptions destroyed their culture and aided teenage "Alexander the great' in his invasion against the major trade civilization in the world in those days...
I find the social/sexual lives of the bonobos to be quite enlightening...especially in regards to the differences between the valley chimpanzees(bonobos) and the male dominant society of the mountain chimps...Some correlation between sexual freedom and abundance of food in the long term.
I haven't read the research on same sex partnering in either chimp civilization...but females are a lot more sexual in the bonobos...they choose and appear to create a great atmosphere for all.
In the male dominant chimpanzee society they function under the rules of estrous...they suffer estrous as do most animals...bonobos do not...they seem to enjoy themselves.. at will...whenever she feels like it...so...who knows...The old ten percent probably still holds and happily received...
Females no matter the sexual preference have been traditionally more open to change...I doubt we were always miss appreciated.
Matriarchy fell after the advent of animal husbandry, when men figured out for themselves that they were the fathers of their wives children.
Now matriarchy, as is traditional in black families, is a legacy of slavery which absolutely destroyed the traditional black family structure. In many, I won't say most, but in many cases it works because it is all that is left. This is reinforced today through disproportionate rates of incarceration of black men. I'm not saying that black men are any more inherintly criminal than white men; but I will say explicitly that police will always shake down a black man first. The police state sustains what slavery started.