For one thing, the so-called Tea Party is, in fact, a well-funded front for the Koch Bros. and Dick Armey's organizations. Occupy is a grass-roots movement that developed organically.

Second, based on their public statements in Congress and in public, the Tea Party seems to be filled with individuals who espouse hate, bigotry and a total lack of interest in helping anyone but themselves.

Because the Tea Party IS the enemy of working America. It's a group of people who's anger over the collapse was misdirected away from the people who caused it, onto the government by the same people who caused it. The Tea Party is a brainwashed group of Americans who's insane support of candidates and policies that hurt the middle class and reward the very people who tanked America is why the president can't get anything done right now. The Tea Party/GOP members of Congress are purposely obstructing any measure that will help the economy to protect unfair tax breaks on their campaign financiers. Tea Partiers elected the morons that want to kill social security, manufactured the debt crisis, and want to start another war with Iran. So yeah, they're destroying America so it's accurate to call them the enemy

Charley----If you remember -----The TParty was a group of angry white racist little men, in silly costumes and misspelled signs.

These people sat for 2920 days, while bush created largest recession in 26 yrs, lied us into an illegal invasion which put Trillions on a Chinese credit card and killed off 4400 US troops, while he took a surplus and turned it into largest deficit in history, while he lost the most jobs in history under his watch to overseas, while he put in Part D Medicare with no funding, gave Tax breaks to the rich which starved the government, etc.

Then---- FIFTY SIX days after Obama took office, before he even had a chance to pass anything, when all they had to say about him was that he was not an American citizen and he was not a Christian-----THEN these people came out and screamed.

The Occupiers on the other hand----are out there for all of us in the 99% who have fallen down in our middle class status. They have brought out to attention the fact that MONEY is ruining our government, our elections, our politicians.

If you do not understand that simple truth, then you are a lost cause.

@RobDon

You, as well as the other posters, are missing the point. Pelosi is trying to co-opt the OWS movement which is the same thing the Republicans did with the Tea Party. OWS is telling Obama they disagree with his policies, particularly as it relates to the banks and the bailouts. In other words, OWS along with a lot of other people, want to see bankers and people on Wall Street indicted. Stop trying to obfuscate the issue. OWS is not supporting the Dems, nor is it a group organized and funded by the Dems. The same is not true for the Tea Party. You need to look beyond the rhetoric and hyperbole on both sides.

RobDon, are you forgetting the Tea Party advocating the assassination of elected officials? The signs talking about "the tree of liberty needing to be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots" which was also on the shirt Timothy McVeigh wore when he was arrest - whose act was celebrated fifteen years later as 2nd Amendment Day by these very same people. As an Okie, I have absolutely NO sense of humor where that is concerned. What about the lynching in effigy of an elected official by these people, the open carrying of guns at rallies and presidential town halls? These are traitorous sons of bitches who were called patriots. Where's the ratf*cking opposition research on the Tea Party? Where was the pepperspray, the beatings, the arrests? Tea Party women being dragged out in the street by their hair by the police? Where was it RobDon?

The Tea Party is irrelevant now.

...the Tea Party seems to be filled with individuals who espouse hate, bigotry and a total lack of interest in helping anyone but themselves.

Because the Tea Party IS the enemy of working America.

The TParty was a group of angry white racist little men,...

Hmmm...I didn't know all of this. Thanks.

Don,

Where was the pepperspray, the beatings, the arrests?

You didn't see this because the Tea Party followed law enforcement officers' directives, gotten permits if needed, and did not try and "occupy" anything.

Mike.

Obama and Pelosi may try to harness the energy of the Occupy Movement, but Obama IS co-ordinating with Dept Homeland Security, mayors and govs to contain them. Obama also sat on his hands instread of helping unions, placed debt reduction over job creation as a priority, and been on the wrong side of environmental and energy extraction issues: allowing frakking to be federally unregulated, opening the Gulf for exploitation immediately before Deep Water Horizon and how he handled that, most lately the tarsands pipeline. He has been pusilanimous is bringing the bad actors in Wall Street to justice, bringing relief to the victims of robo-signing and the millions who've lost their homes; not to mention giving that parade of criminality that was the Bush White house a complete pass and protection; the discarding of Public Option and Single Payer in health care reform. And under Clinton there was the rollback of anti-trust legislation and the repeal of Glass/Steagal which allowed the Wall Street Melt down to take place.

Their is ample guilt for everyone. If the Democrats want to harness the energy of the Occupy Movement, then they need to tend to their own laundry-list of sins and misteps before approaching them with a straight face.

So the advocation of assassination of elected officials and celebration of domestic terrorism is fine so long as all the right people are bought off?

No. To threaten the president IN ANY FORM is a federal offense. Unless you are the Tea Party. Treasonous c***ks***ers, every single one.

OWS recognizes that Obama and the Dems are being funded by the same special interest groups as the Republican party. That is why OWS is keeping its distance from the Dems. The banks and Wall Street are already giving money to the DNC and those Dems who have been bought like the two senators from NY. The banks and Wall Street are playing both sides. I have advocated that OWS should work against the politicians who have been bought by the special interests. Working against a candidate is not an endorsement of the opponent. OWS should educate voters on who is buying their representative. They can do that on a local level since OWS is everywhere.

Agreed.

I don't recall any of the TPers getting pepper-sprayed point blank in the face, even them totin' weapons, or getting within spitting distance of Congressional members. Maybe the Occupiers need dandy 17th century wigs and tea bag hats to make them look less threatening. So, where are all those 1st Amendment lovin' Libertarians now?

I don't recall the Tea Party being called terrorists. I do recall them being called ignorant, racist, brainwashed, idiots and a few more apt descriptive words.
The Tea Party members did not get permits or take one action to obey the law. Their handlers, the Koch Bros, did all that for them, including busing them in in style and comfort, attending to their needs while gathered, and then busing them home. It was like an outing for a retirement home, or the campervan vacation these folks can no longer afford to take.
I do think it would be very wise of the democrats to pick up the talking points of the OWS movement and start acting on them. Indict the banksters, protect citizens from illegal foreclosures, subsidize education, make provisions for affordable health care for everyone (single-payer) and so on. Then the Occupy Everything movement might come to them. What a party THAT would be!

RobDon is referring to this:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60421.html

This is when I hate the news media on both sides of the isle. I would rather hear what the person had to say repeated verbatim rather than having it summarized in a sentence in which the narrator tells me what the intention was. Now I also agree w/ Rachel that you should not repeat public statements back if they are factually untrue or otherwise inappropriate, but in this instance I do not have enough information to make a judgement. IF Biden was referring to the fact that the negotiations were "held hostage" as a terrorist would do then I can see his point in hyperbole. Before anyone snaps at me: I make the "I can see his point" argument specifically because Mitch McConnell had stated that he and the Republicans held the negotiations hostage. McConnell himself then stated that later on this was the tool Republicans would use in order to get what they wanted and explained that even though it was like something terrorists would do, it got what Republicans wanted (therefore it was OK). So I could see Biden making a similar comment (as well as other Democrats, such as Doyle from PA which I believe is the Senator RD was referring to).

For me personally I make a distinction between Democrats and Republicans as voters, Democrats and Republicans as activists, Democrats and Republicans as political commentators, and Democrats and Republicans as politicians. What Ed Shultz says about a movement doesn't even remotely represent how Democratic voters feel or how Democratic politicians will vote. Likewise what Republican commentators say about Democratic activists doesn't represent the media's position nor does it represent the Democratic Party's position.

I did not call the tea party terrorists until the debt ceiling crisis, when they applauded the congress when they refused to raise the debt ceiling. We were downgraded and our credibility as a nation got hurt. The fear they have caused in the average American lives. Some found it hard to fall asleep. It was more like when you have fear of being attacked and there is no where to go. Right now with their trying to privatize everything just because they really think everyone that is on government help is on drugs or are lazy. That is emotional terrorism, and there is also financial terrorism. What happens is that the GOP base and the tea party are too ignorant about terrorism. There are different kinds of terrorism. Anything that inspire fear on the people of a country, is terrorism.

OWS along with a lot of other people, want to see bankers and people on Wall Street indicted. Stop trying to obfuscate the issue. OWS is not supporting the Dems, nor is it a group organized and funded by the Dems. The same is not true for the Tea Party. You need to look beyond the rhetoric and hyperbole on both sides.

YES! You're my hero!! LOL! :)

Sometimes speaking out against stupidity only begets more stupidity. Hopefully we can get better results pouring water on the fire instead of gasoline. Sometimes compromise is effective but I hope Mr Obama is learning the futility of trying to appease these people.

Maybe when Bush Clinton Bush Reagan Carter and past Presidents apoligize for the police brutaility against Black people should PBO say anything about someone being pepper sprayed.

When u protest anything can happen. If u are afraid don't protest.

um no, if they had dragged these protesters off to jail, it would be different. The fact that unnecessary force is being used is the problem. For anyone. Just because someone has or hasn't apologized for it on a historical scale is not the issue. PBO needs to grow a set and make it a point to denounce the violent police brutality - especially PBO.

He did when he asked the country to care about Skip Gates being taken out of his own house for "mouthing off " to a white man.

The President doesn't have to say anything to anyone after whites cried about how nice the police were and hos PBO was being mean and over stepping his bounds.

California has a governor go occupy his office.

The Tea Party movement started with a rant from CNBC bond analyst Rick Santelli on the floor of the CME on Obama's Home Affordability Plan to bail out underwater homeowners' mortgages. His point was that it was unfair for his tax dollars to pay for his neighbor's mortgage to add another bathroom which he could not afford. This homeowner never could afford the mortgage to begin with. Its better to let the market find a bottom and be purchased by a new owner who can afford to own this house at the lower, true value. It's the same moral hazard situation of his neighbor's house as the banks "too big to fail that Santelli was pissed off about. He later said that he and the other traders on the Chicago CME were going to start a Chicago Tea Party.

The Tea Party movement as it has grown has its share of fringe elements which the left leaning media focuses its attention on and what most posters on this blog continually regurgitate just as the OWS movement has attracted its fringe elements - anarchists, criminals and rabble rousers looking for a fight which makes for a nice 30 second video bite.

The core tenet of the Tea Party is that government has gotten "too big to fail" and as a small government conservative, I am happy to support this tenet and the movement.

Its nice that Pelosi and Labor are trying to co-opt the OWS movement, but what the dem politicians are ignoring is that OWS is calling out the poisonous infleuence of wall street money and other special interest money to all long standing members of congress of both parties. I fully agree with this and believe in real campaign reform, limits of special interest money to candidates and term limits for congress. The original founders did not envision career politicians. By limiting terms and turning over those seats on a shorter basis will limit the long standing corruption and the career corporate payroll of our politicians.

The tea party is rebranded Ku Klux Klan. They may be all that u say but when their core ideology is racism they can go to hell.

The so called #ows movement was started by some Canadien group called Ad Busters. If you notice u don't see much coverage of this fact. Why is any American citizen following such a group?

The fact this group felt inclined to mic check the President is reprehensible. They are not representing me so I wish they would stop saying they are the 99%. They are white people upset that the Republicans they voted for screwed them. Oh well.

Tanyars

For the record I see a lot of black faces (many of them getting douced in pepper spray) among the OWS people. Far more than I ever saw at a TP event. So I really think you could say it is all about disgruntled white people upset about who got elected. That would be the Tea Party.

Although I didn't like seeing OWS heckle the President he handled it like the true gentleman he is. He should consider a career in stand up after his second term he handles hecklers so well. Even if this movement started with a Canadian group it is irrelevant now. It has become an American movement.

I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving

Yes there are legions of Black people being peppered sprayed (rolling my eyes). Just like the TP claimed to have many Blacks in their ranks many are populated in the ows movements.

I predict,the moment ows started mic checking the President is the moment any Black who had sympathy for the movement decided the ows was bs. Of all the people this group could heckle they pick the President. The movement was anti Obama in the first place so I am glad they made it clear.

The fact that ows was started by a Canadien group is VERY relevant. They are astro turf just like the tea party. People can google ad busters, eye opening. People wake up u are being bamboozled.

Maria Blumeberg here ya go

http://politicsanonymous.com/?p=5884

You have to assume that the people in that audience attended this event in support of the President, that most – if not all – of the local people attending this were Democrats. Their reaction to the chanting protest of the Occupy people tells me that, whilst liberal, ordinary and small town America might sympathise with some of the stated concerns of Occupy Wall Street (namely income inequality), they are not overly enamoured when the protesters pull stunts like this.

You really are in your own alternate reality, aren't you? Meh. Can't be bothered.

True.

No weapons.

Very much the same look and feel as the 1960s Vietnam War protest.

The super rich buy access on both sides but direct larger portions to the side they own. It is not neccessarily evil to be funded by some one who likes the way you think. The problem comes when our system becomes dependent on conditional funding.

not exactly. when donations come through a PAC, that means employees, their families, lobbyists, etc...not the company itself. and the donations from GE, Merill Lynch, etc. came through PACs, so it's kind of hard to tell how that breaks down.

what IS certain is that President Obama raised an unprecedented amount of money in small donations from private donors.

what is also certain? just because a PAC donates to your campaign doesn't mean the company behind that PAC gets a pass on illegal behavior. i certainly haven't noticed this President behaving as if he believes otherwise.

It's hard to believe that any one would intentionally sink the boat carrying himself, but I can't come up with any other explanation for the actions of the obstructionists

When blind allegiance to an ideology causes a loss of reason we call that zealotry.

Whether it is a person flying into skyscraper or a completely fabricated political fiasco leading to a debt down grade it is zealotry.

I agree that it is difficult to imagine that state of mind. I also find it disturbing that people would elect such people precisely for that attribute.

Thank you Pat. The TP people believe right thinking people will bestow rewards upon them for for saving the country from you and me.

it is

And now we have are first Martyr.

And a book burning last week.

We need to know the woman's name.

Sad, but she chose a protest movement over her unborn child's safety.

She did not choose to get beaten and stomped.

She chose to go to the park.

There is no excuse in the world for why a walk in the park should be unsafe if none of the people you are with have any weapons.

"CRACKHEAD" , c needs some of whatever you're smoking

C needs to get his license for basic humanity revoked! When cops are stomping pregnant women, THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG!

Just saying that she put herself in a dangerous situation knowing full-well that the OWS protest have been known to spur violence. I find it disingenuous to say she was walking in the park, at night, snatched off the sidewalk and bludgeoned by the police. Most expectant mothers are far more careful than that.

If I went to Crackhead's house and his meth-stove blew-up and blinded me, wouldn't I be responsible for putting myself in that situation?

You know, c, you have a great way of making your assumptions sound like you are the judge and jury and she is condemned for your lack of knowledge.

1. You have no idea why she was walking in the park. Could be she doesn't own a car. Could be she was headed home from work. Could be she just got off a bus. Could be she had just been to her doctor. Could be that was her only route home. Could be a thousand things you can't even begin to imagine because you aren't her and you weren't walking in her shoes.

2. Since you really don't know why she was there, how do you know that "most expectant mothers are more careful than that." I had to move from one apartment to another in the middle of winter when I was 9 months pregnant. The apartment building I was living in was being taken for a new highway project and they didn't ask if moving would be a problem for me or when it would be convenient. It wasn't a "careful" thing to do, but I had no choice and I couldn't afford a moving company. I had to haul everything I owned over a 5 foot snow bank, down the other side and up 3 flights of stairs. Since you have no idea why she was there, you have no right to make a judgement or put her down for being there.

3. I'm sure if her reason for being there was innocent she had no idea that a brutal police force would hit her in the stomach with their batons or spray her with pepper spray. Usually in our country we tend to think that there is some rationality in our police forces. There were many people there not involved in the movement and the indiscriminate use of force is simply not right.

It's just like your assumption that Crackhead is cooking meth. Be careful how you judge others, you may end up being judged just as unfairly as you are judging them. Karma, you know.

Good point. I think I'll unfairly judge c myself.

Hey, c! You're callous attitude toward that woman's miscarriage clearly marks you as a sociopath. Possibly a dangerous one. Maybe you should be locked up for your own good as well as the good of society.

Are you happy with that judgement, c? If not, change your ways. If you want better treatment for yourself, you've got to make a determined effort to be a better person. No excuses.

MeddlingMonk:

Ditto.

gramapoet & MM I love you! Ditto Crackhead. :-)

you're right. I bet she was just on her daily routine. Just like the NYC school kids the morning they closed the Zucotti Zoo.... But, we can't speak of that in pro-occupation sites. };>

You Don't Get It™.

This reminds me of my grandma. The family owned a date ranch in what now is Rancho Mirage. Every year she would buy turkeys for Thanksgiving and Christmas and give them to the workers and their families. That was way back in the day.

Sed, thank you. It makes me sick, but I still thank you for sharing this.

I second that, Sed. Thank you!!!!

Ditto.

I found it:

Seattle Police Pepper Sprayed 3 month pregnant women. Jeniffer Fox has miscarried http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDvFUw-6Wd0 #OWS

The first Martyr.

Now there's some sick irony for you. A woman named Fox miscarries after being assaulted with pepper spray, and a cable channel named Fox declares that pepper spray is no big deal.

http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/11/22/374237/fox-news-host-dismisses-pepper-spray-attack-by-cops-its-essentially-a-food-product-right/

Just so everyone knows since the guest tonight from Scientific American didn't mention it, in the mid 1990's the DOJ did an investigation into the use of pepper spray and determined that there were at least 70 deaths attributed to its' use. This is a very serious weapon. The orange kind you all saw the cops using at UC Davis is a specific military/law enforcement grade that incorporates a glue so as to make the active "pepper" ingredient stick to the targets skin and face to cause extended pain and damage and is very difficult to remove. You may have noticed how the students faces were orange after the spraying and they couldn't wipe it off. This was why.

And the queasiness in my gut grows.

All of which is why I insist that a non-lethal weapon is still a weapon. Calling it 'non-lethal' is just a license to use it with a false sense of impunity.

It the right or wrong hands, used the right or wrong way - ANYTHING is lethal.

Poison is poison.

The oral LD50 for capsaicin is about 5 grams (about a tablespoon full).

The specific purpose for which it is authorized is to force people to close their eyes and mouth in order to stop them from hurting you or someone else (like to break up a fight). You only need a little bit to do that (a short burst).

Pepper spray is assault if you use it any other way (at least in California). Same thing as clubbing someone over the skull.

That is why people went to the hospital. It can blind you permanently. There is no safety information about what it will do during pregnancy.

Pepper spray is covered in guard-card training if you are licensed to carry.

There is a video you must watch and you must pass a test after watching the video in order to be licensed to carry pepper spray.

The guards that used pepper spray on the crowd at UC Davis never watched a training video or they would not have used it on people that were sitting down because it is impossible to move without help afterwards (they would be unable to stand up).

Not being under-written by billionaires. If you have that, you can openly carry weapons to presidential town halls.

And let's not forget the 'Free Speech Zones' Bush instituted which were several blocks away from where Bush was speaking. This is where sign carrying protesters were allowed to gather, far from where anyone would see or hear them. People were denied entry to his public events because of BUMPER STICKERS on their cars which were parked several blocks away. Or because they were recognized as not being Bush supporters.

The alternatives are far worse. But I can't begin to imagine what that would do to protests either.

The federal government is a separate sovereign than states, and Pres. Obama has no direct authority over state and local issues.

Pres. Obama should publicly urge law enforcement to not violate the First Amendment right to protest so long as protest is peaceful and on public land.

The only organization that could intervene are US Martials, who are authorized to arrest and detain anyone including police (DOJ).

It would be a bad idea to use the martial service like that. Things have not progressed to the point of martial law.

It's good that he was mic checked. Republicans may be the source of all our problems, but Democrats have been the Republicans enablers. Both parties are part of a corrupt system, even though they carry different burdens of guilt and responsibility. So it's fitting that both are targeted by Occupy.

I find myself more disappointed with the audience. Drowning out the protestors was not only rude. It shows that mainstream Democratic supporters are apparently no more fans of the First Amendment than are Republican supporters. On the other hand, it relieves me to see a sharp cleavage between Occupy and the Democratic Party. I don't want the movement to be a tool of any political party.

Obama supporters will not put up with fake progressives, anarchist, libertarian type haters. The disrespect shown the President by many in this country is repugnant. If u think his supporters will let Repubs and left haters take over his speeches u got another thing coming.

So OWS are now 'haters'? Sheesh. Auditioning for Fox News, are you?

She is. She's already citing O'Reilly as the authority on everything Occupy related.

Michael.

Not true.

Pres. Obama spoke with the Mic Check leader and took a note with the message they were going to speak.

Grace under fire.

For all my grievances with him, Obama has more class than we;ve seen in a long time. I think he's a lousy horse trader, but he's got Cool down.

The Occupiers gave him the script of their mic.check. If you were watching you saw the picture of the smiling fellow handing it to the President.

I thought he handled the whole situation very well. At least he didn't have a ton of security guards hustling them away. He respected their right to speak, unlike the reactions of some of the Republicans and he acknowledged their right to protest.

Ok, he wasn't Jesus Christ - but then none of us are.

But you can't knock him for class and style; which, given the psychopaths and sociopaths jockeying to take him on in the nest election, really counts for alot!

Are we allowed to bitch when white people get a bullet in the head? Would that make you feel better about it?

How about some outrage when unarmed Black people are killed by police for no reason? Oscar Grant was killed and I had to scour the internet for stories about the incident.

PBO tried to get the country in a national discussion about police brutality but whites got scared. Now middle class whites are getting some ruff teatment, actually kid glove treatment by police and u would have thought the poilce put bullets thought these people's head.

Any type of police brutality is horrid but watching white people on TV act like this is the second coming of Bull Conner is too much.

Tanyars5

Of course you are right. This is hideous.

I was stopped by the police a few weeks ago with my godson because he was black-while-carrying-a-bookbag.

Racism is an emotional handicap caused by two things.

• Stereotype Threat
• Early Childhood Education Failure

This is the reason that children with darker skin do worse in school, and why police pick on people with darker skin.

Pres. Obama should make this mandatory for all public employees, like teachers, law enforcement, and emergency responders to set an example.

It would take about 15 years to fix this if it became official policy for Department of Education.

Sometimes the rhetoric on here gets to me big time, especially from people who assume they can lump a whole class of people into their imagined state.

I'm 74. I don't own a home, I don't have a pension, my son is disabled and unable to work and we live on my Social Security (which I paid for over the last 60 years.) I have no time on my hands because I still have to work as much as I can part-time to keep my son and me in food, clothing, cleaning supplies, prescription co-pays, energy bills, not to mention rent for an apartment that was just raised to over half my Social Security check. The apartment isn't luxurious, it's a one bedroom and my son sleeps on the couch in the frontroom. My prescriptions are not free, nor is my Medicare or Part D Prescription insurance. I don't own a car and my "lifestyle" is on the edge of penury. Do I have it made??????

My furniture is primarily from dumpster diving, with a couple of nice things that were given to me. I am not a Tea Party member and I would never be one. I support the Occupy movement because I know what this country used to be and want to see that return. My heart bleeds for the people who are suffering so terribly in this "richest of all countries", not only for the Occupiers who are being brutally attacked, but for all of the people who come into the food shelf I work at because they can't afford to buy food and for the people who come in who have no home to take a shower in or wash their clothes.

I don't have mine, just like they don't have theirs and I would love to all of us able to have the life we have worked for all these years.

So get down off your high horse, Hunter, and take off your freakin' blinders. You aren't the only one suffering or the only one who cares.

Like I said, we get our share of trolls. The regulars here are hard to beat though. You'll see. Watching people tangle with The Mouzer is downright educational.