Yesterday in Ohio, supporters of what would be the nation's most restrictive abortion bill lined up children yesterday to make their case. And then they had the children make the case for the Heartbeat bill themselves, starting with a four-year-old boy. He appears on camera at about 1:29 -- he's so small, the press conference speaker has to hoist him up to the mic.
"My name is Noah, and I'm four," he says, sounding every bit his age. "And I'm a heartbeat."
The press conference continues on like that for several minutes. Ohio Capital Blog posts four clips of the proceedings, all of which I recommend. In the fourth clip, the organizers attempt to make their case with a toddler who starts off with a pacifier and then won't say his line.
After the press conference, the kids then set off to give all 33 Ohio senators teddy bears that play a recording of an 18-week-old fetal heartbeat.
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Wow!! By this logic then those Ohioans that support "choice" should line up children that are in the foster care system and those whose parents have "abused" them - they too should speak to their "heartbeats" and the lives that they have lived so far!!
Frankly, I'm quite horrified by these sheeple!!
This is an absolute glaring example of just how intensely pathetic the Conservatives really are! To use children as a "prop" is disgusting to say the least! Words can't describe my anger at this exhibition. You will burn in Hell for this folly!
What about children singing "Occupy" songs?
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/01/04/virginia-elementary-students-accused-of-performing-pro-occupy-song/
Does hell have room for some lefties? Are you just as angry?
@Eric -
"In October, one of the children participating in the activities at Woodbrook Elementary School mentioned that he wanted to write about “having it all and losing it all,”..."
Since you obviously "missed" what the article says...It also says that the parents of the children involved haven't been complaining. Am I angry that the children took it on themselves - well actually it does go to show that the children are "paying attention".....In the case above - it was the parents forcing "the children" to voice on a topic that they really don't understand - and therein is my issue!
And if you read my post - I said I was "horrified"!!!
@Zora
It would be better to have women who were raped, children with severe birth defects and women who had backroom abortions before Roe v. Wade. Cute and cuddly will lose its shine.
Using children seems somewhat ironic. So your kids are mere tools? Your kids are not aloud to consider all sides? Your children must of course become -you?
I hate people who use children.These parents should have their kids sent to an orphanage.
A comment that contains this gets 6 votes? And just how does a 4 year old consider "all sides?" Please. Of course teach parents what they believe. Of course parents teach their children what is right and wrong in their eyes.
Are you proposing we don't teach children but let them figure everything out for themselves or just on controversial issues?
I agree using children in a political charge issue is very questionable. Just like the school kids chanting about President Obama or the students singing with the protesters in the Wisconsin capital.
But I think parents should teach their values, you don't?
RobDon - Yes - Parents should teach their values, but they should not force their children to do things that are controversial before they are old enough to understand and make the decisions themselves.
I will tell you that my father asked my mother to abort me. Obviously she chose not to do so, but that was her choice. And even though the fact that choice was available means I might not have been born, I still support that choice. As an adult, I can evaluate that. As a child I would have been incapable of doing so. Should I go testify that I would have WANTED to be aborted if my mother didn't want me?
Cora, as noted, I believe using children/students in a political way is questionable no matter the topic. I was just simply amazed that someone had written that parents SHOULDN'T teach their children values and that others agreed!
@Rob - I think you misunderstood the post. I think that what was meant was that the parents shouldn't use their children to express their own political viewpoint, especially when the conversation is so way above the children's level of understanding.
"A baby grows inside his mommy's tummy. The baby's heart beats just like yours. The baby, although we can't see him, is precious just like you."
How is that above a child's level of understanding? Every bit of it is correct and age appropriate. Millions of expecting mothers tell their own children the same thing. Is that wrong somehow?
Who held up the fetus so it could make it's statement? and was the fetus's statement in English?
Using kids who cannot possibly give informed consent is simply unconscionable.
I'm sure you and the 6 voters who liked your comment would be against things like this as well...
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/shocking-vid-wis-hs-students-admit-teachers-bringing-them-to-protests-but-dont-know-why-theyre-there/
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8BRa9ffT9o
Wow! using small children...what a desperate measure. It's sick and pathetic.
Where was this outrage when the Left were using children in the Wisconsin union protests? Just amazing how things change when you don't agree with the cause.
RobDon, when did this happen? I must have missed that part. Or you're making it up.
Rob
It's one thing for a family to protest together. It's another thing entirely to put a child all aloneon a witnees stand to testify. One is a case of family unity. The other a case of sending some poor kid out alone to speak about something he or she may or may not have been coerced to do.
BTW I have been told by a friend who escorts women into women's health clinics that anti-choice opponents bring their children to protests too. I have no problems with that. I do however dislike making those children hold up sings with aborted fetuses. I think such signs are in poor taste period no matter who holds them.
Closeted, I don't make things up. The comment (5.1) above has links to two situations.
Maria, I do believe there are degrees of exploiting a child/student for political purposes, but the two links I have above are NOT of a family with their children.
Rob
First I can't watch streaming video on my computer so I really can't ascertain what is going on in the videos. Second the first video sent up a window that even if I could watch the video I had to sign up for a Glen Beck newsletter with no option of closing the window to view the footage. Third as a child who delivered food from my parents to my striking elementary school teachers, I can't say I have problem with students going to protests.
However I do (from what a gather from the caption in the first video) think that the kids should know what the protest is about. Having said that I do not know from what I could gather if the students where uninformed or just were not paying attention when the teacher told them where they were going.
And yes I do believe the student should go to an anti-union protest too. But then again Civics were among my favorite classes when growing up. :-)
Still believe making such young children going in front of many adults to testify is wrong. It is terrifying enough for such young children to play solo at a recital let alone give testimony before a state legislature. I'm just thinking how scared those children may have been.
You might wanna fix your headline to read, "Never too young..." instead of "Never to young..."
Thank you!
Oh, we're going to add 50 - 60 kids a day. Great. Who's going to feed them and take care of them and ensure they contribute to society?
Robert don't forget about healthcare! Pro-life is really pro-birth and nothing more.
According to Santorum, all of those children are needed to save Social Security!!
Pro-choice advocates should get the 68,000 women who'll die this year around the world from backstreet abortions to come and speak. But they can't. Because they've already been killed by the criminalisation of medicine.
Where are all of theses zealots when it come time to care for the children born who are not wanted? The ones who live their lives in fear or going from foster home to foster home.
This is completely horrifying. I hope these right-to-lifers are prepared to adopt all of the children currently in the foster care system. And I hope they support raising taxes to educate and support children whose families are unable to.....
And to exploit children this way! Ugh. Makes me crazy!
While I agree with every comment made thus far that it is terrible (and ironic) to use children as political props, let's remember also that one person on the so-called left did just that as she had her son confront Michele Bachman saying, "...my mother...does not need fixing." Neither instance of using children to promote political agendas is right. Yes this is a different situation in which an entire group thought this tactic was okay as opposed to just one person.
I wonder if there's a substantive difference having to do with the age of the kids involved. Some of these kids are older than the one in the Michele Bachmann video, but others are younger, a lot younger.
Greg...you are correct. Students/children were also used during the Wisconsin protests as well. While I agree there is a line and it is often cross, I do believe parents should teach values to their children and when students move towards adulthood, they will have to evaluate what they've been taught with how they see the world.
I'm just constantly amazed at how the Right are outraged with the tactics of the Left, and the Left are outraged with the tactics on the Right...and both use the exact same tactics.
(PS - Greg, I can't say I agree with "every comment made thus far.")
I think there's a difference, but it's only semi-related to age. Age is a pretty good predictor of life experience. We assume kids don't have much life experience to draw on when forming opinions. We don't expect a 10 year old to have experience with unwanted pregnancy, birth control or sex. I mean...it's possible, but unlikely. But a 4 year old certainly wouldn't.
A kid with a gay parent has more life experience to draw from than someone who's never met a gay person. A kid with a parent in the military may have a valid opinion on whether we should get into another war.
The first strong political opinion I remember having was on school vouchers. And it was only because from 3rd grade my Mom sent me to a neighboring school district because the one I lived in was awful. And so began my life as a voucher-hating liberal.
RobDon, your fals equivalence "both sides do it" doesn't hold water. Stop apologizing for the right wing.
Closeted, in your earlier comment you acknowledged you didn't even know the Left had used children in an exploited political way and now you say what you didn't know is not equivalent anyway.
And please quote from my comment where you think I am apologizing for the right. (My prediction - you will not because you can't, I wasn't apologizing, excusing or condoning - you are just "making it up.")
GrrrlRomeo, I do understand but...
A kid with a parent in the military may have a valid opinion on whether we should get into another war.
My guess is that very, very few kids would have the opinion their parent should go off to war. They would not (unless specifically taught by their parent) understand the commitment their parent made or the valid reasons war might be necessary. Just because one has had an experience at a young age does not mean they have mature thinking about that experience.
@RobDon,
I've got to disagree with you, based on the substantive differences of your objection and comparison. The children used in this "prop" aren't even old enough to understand "sex, sexuality, consequences, or abortion", period - you can't even convince me that they are!
The children in Wisconsin that were marching, were generally over the age 10, old enough to understand that their teachers/parents were about to loose their Unions, their representation on the job for rights and benefits that they've earned! And while I don't think that children under 5 understand the concept of "war" - they understand that one day they have 2 parents and the next day they only have 1 because the other parent is "at war"! However, our current needless wars have been borne by many a military child - that has learned, and matured quickly in their understanding of what "war" is!
Just as many a child has learned about "homelessness" due to the foreclosure nonsense, these children "mature" extraordinarily quickly in their understanding of their situation.
Experience causes mature thinking. The whole process of growing up is the racking up of life experiences.
So, then, you would not have a problem if a teacher took a class of students to a anti-union rally, huh? They would be old enough to understand the other side of the argument.
Experience causes stuff that happens to you. Reason regarding the stuff causes mature thinking.
WoW. It's clear that these kids are not being shown the whole picture. Does anyone of these kids know how many people are on the planet? Does any one of these kids Know how many people can live on the planet Earth? At about 7 Billion Now, the Earth is quickly reaching that 10 Billion mark where we will reach the Earth's limits for Food and Water. There is already 1 Billion people on the earth that don't have access to clean drinking water. At the rate we're going These Bible worshipers are going to get a rude awakening when they find out that because of there selfishness to force unwanted babies to be born that will cause countless others to suffer. That's mighty christianly of you.
Just totally ridiculous! We need to repeal all of these republican bills that have been signed by our wonderful governor here in Ohio. Just makes me sick!!
Oh, and by the way, I already signed the petition the Sherrod has going to repeal this.
It's possible for kids to have opinions on lots of things. Like, whether girls can play with trucks and boys can play with dolls or if their gay parents should be allowed to get married. But I don't care how old you are, if you don't know how babies are made or what rape is, then your opinion on abortion is irrelevant.
Can kids of a heterosexual couple have an opinion on whether gay parents should be allowed to be married?
I'm all for young people having an opinion but in most cases, the child can in no way fully evaluate all the issues because of a lack of knowledge and life experience. This doesn't mean we devalue the child, but nor do we elevate their "insight" only when we agree with their conclusion (meaning they agree with us).
Kids of gay parents experience discrimination themselves. See: Empirical knowledge.
I agree and it is shameful. I wasn't addressing the wrongness of this action or others. You seemed to think kids/students opinions on abortion/life issues are not valid because they could not understand all the issues. Since you specifically mentioned children of gay couples, I wondered if you thought children of heterosexual couples could rightly have an opinion on gay marriage? That's all.
Anyone can have an opinion, RobDon. I'm not the thought police. The issue is whether or not the opinion has merit. Not all opinions are informed opinions. An opinion based on information gained by experience or observation has more value than an opinion that isn't based on anything real or factual.
I remember arguing with my grandmother back in '72 about whether Richard Nixon should be re-elected president. I was on the con side. And as it happens, I turned out to be essentially correct, but I was not giving an informed opinion. I was just expressing the viscerally negative impression that Nixon made on me as a child. The fact that subsequent events and disclosures, and my growing knowledge of them, justified that reaction is beside the point. It's only due to dumb chance that I happened to be right. At the time of those arguments I didn't have a clue what I was on about. I had no understanding of politics and I had no rational reason to be against Nixon. If anyone had tried to use me as a tool in the campaign against Nixon, that person would have been committing political malpractice. And possibly a kind of child abuse.
But Watergate was very educational. By '76 I was able to intelligently follow politics, although still not yet in a particularly mature way. But it was an improvement. The kids being used for this thing in Ohio are me in '72, not me in '76.
I am not at all sure where the disagreement is coming from o.O
Both GR and RD have admitted that context matters and so does the relative level of maturity of the child and the relative understanding the child has for the basis of his thoughts. Both sides have agreed that there are certain circumstances in which children voluntarily expressing a political opinion or joining in a familial expression of opinion is not inherently wrong, but that doing so as a direct prop to a legislator is.
man, this is all too hilarious. of course they'd vote for the heartbeat bill, their parents told them to. they're children 15(?) and younger, they have yet to fully develop brains, thoughts, ideas, and personal values. a major problem with this, as well as society, is the lack of free thinkers. granted, their still kids/teenagers but the overall problem isn't the fact they're saying these things, it's the fact their parents forcing these ideas and thoughts into their head becaues it's the "right thing to do" if you, the reader/viewer, can accept that. and the beat goes on in ohio...
This video has a major "ick and ewww" factor. Pass me the barf bucket!
The issue of "using children" is merely a distraction from the real issue, IMO.
That issue is - Does one segment of the US population have the right to demand that their unscientific and factually incorrect, faith-based opinions be made law to be imposed on the rest of us?
Simply despicable. May they all rot in hell.
An unwanted pregnancy is not a child, it is a parasite. You want to outlaw abortion? Fine, but then require doctors to induce labor at the request of the mother, no matter how long she has been pregnant. If the birth produces a baby that can survive on it's own (without machines) , then it is a child, and the mother can choose to raise it or give it for adoption. If it does not survive the pre-term birth, then it was never a child, just a parasite that could not survive without it's unwilling host.
Ringworms and tapeworms have heartbeats too, but that doesn't make them people.
Ringworm is actually a fungal infection, and tapeworms have no circulatory system. But other human parasites do fit the example.
What exactly do these people think they're saving these babies from? We're saving babies! No you're not. If you force a woman to give birth to a baby she doesn't want, you're just adding another baby into the already huge pool of babies that no one wants. What the hell kind of life is that? Let these babies live! Yes, let the babies live, no matter what it's more important that they be born and die of hunger than be aborted before they even have the capacity for thought. Watching a procession of spoiled white kids get up on stage and read things their parent's forced them to write isn't moving, it's just effed up.
Wow, the depths of depravity these people will go to. What is amazing is the stats she was spewing about who supports the bill. I do not like the idea of abortion, but the idea that a woman must carry a baby of a rapist to term, a baby to term that will die hours after death because of a birth defect, or risk the life of the mother because a continued pregnancy will take her life is just insane. There are MILLIONS of children out there in the world that are homeless, starving, and dying at the rate of hundreds of thousands a day. When will America actually be a country that once again believes that the church and state shouldn't be sleeping together and having illegitimate babies?
Here's the facts that people like to overlook: No one is standing outside an abortion provider's office, grabbing pregnant women off the street and forcing them to endure an abortion. The women are there, each for their own reason. It doesn't matter what the reason is, it only matters that they aren't being forced. I think we like to think every woman is doing it for the right reason, that it's not just a method of birth control but the truth is, it's their life and their reason. It's not up to me because I don't pay their bills and I don't live their lives. If you're not willing to immediately invite that woman into your home and pay their expenses for the period of their pregnancy and then bring that child up at your own expense for the next 18 years, then you don't have the right to force the woman into doing that. Plain and simple, it's not your problem, stop making it so.
These kids are no different than the Hitler Youth. Instead of little Aryans we have little Christian warriors. It's early indoctrination to spawn a whole new generation of mindless non-thinkers. All this under the banner of religion and God. Shame on the adults for not allowing their children to learn to weigh issues non-judgmentally and reasonably and with a sense of compassion.
eh, they'll rebel, or they'll find themselves in a sticky situation and realize just how empty platitudes are when The Rubber Meets The Road.
Well, that would be tragically ironic.
In the fields and on the heath
I lose Strength through Joy.
...as it was said of the Jungmädelbund (the girl's equivalent to the Hitlerjugend). Yeesh!