Appearing recently at the American Heartland Forum, Rick Santorum shared an interesting perspective on the fate of the elderly in the Netherlands. It's an absurd perspective, of course, but it speaks to a larger issue.
"In the Netherlands, people wear different bracelets if they are elderly," Santorum said. "And the bracelet is: 'Do not euthanize me.' Because they have voluntary euthanasia in the Netherlands but half of the people who are euthanized -- 10% of all deaths in the Netherlands -- half of those people are euthanized involuntarily at hospitals because they are older and sick. And so elderly people in the Netherlands don't go to the hospital. They go to another country, because they are afraid, because of budget purposes, they will not come out of that hospital if they go in there with sickness."
In other words, in the mind of this Republican presidential hopeful, there are (cue scary music) Dutch Death Panels, including the "involuntarily" euthanization of the elderly in hospitals in the Netherlands.
Glenn Kessler took a detailed look at all of Santorum's claims, reviewing the bracelets, the legal euthanasia safeguards, and the alleged "involuntarily" euthanizations. Kessler's conclusion?
"There appears to be not a shred of evidence to back up Santorum's claims about euthanasia in the Netherlands. It is telling that his campaign did not even bother to defend his comments."
The moral of the story: Rick Santorum, as part of his culture-war crusade, doesn't mind making stuff up. He makes outlandish claims in a sincere way -- Santorum actually seems to believe his own nonsense -- but that doesn't change the fact that the guy really has no idea what he's talking about.
And there's a larger truth here, too. As an extension of the fight over health care reform, the right desperately wants the public to fear the government, not just in general, but literally fear the possibility that bureaucrats might start killing innocent Americans -- just like those rascally Europeans.
It's sheer madness, of course, and constitutes demagoguery on an almost comical scale, but as Santorum's Dutch gibberish helps remind us, conservatives are heavily invested in the message anyway.
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I see a law outlawing fact checkers.
Right winged sources cite right winged sources who cite right winged sources saying that ...
I see a schizophrenic politician telling stories about hearing the voice of god.
And fake news networks willing to back him up on that.
They see dead Hitlers...
It would be more logical that these people have on a DNR bracelet, because probably without the bracelet, they will have CPR on and on and on until there is definitely no hope. The majority of elderly in long term care are DNRs. When I would ask them, they usually said, "Oh good Lord, let me go. i don't want to be brought back over and over again for nothing. "
They push these ideas 24/7 on their Xstain radio stations. I didn't know about this until I met some of these listeners. Had a lady at our local Dog Park tell me that Obama is killing babies all day long. I've known her a long time and she had seemed sane but she has been brainwashed. Totally and complete. I've met a few more too. This is the Theocrats base.
This is not the Rushbo gang. Most don't like him either, but the preachers on Xstain radio have captured their audience and they believe the government is out to get babies and old people.
No.
Sane politicians do not fantasize about doctors killing people against their will.
That ended when Nazi Germany was defeated in the 1940s.
If Santorum is not hearing voices then he is a closeted Nazi that had a momentary brain fart that let the cat out of the bag.
Either one of those two options should scare the living crap out of everyone.
"There appears to be not a shred of evidence..."
Which never appears to bother the GOP! Yet another reason to keep them out of office, they're delusional & psychotic!!
This guy definately needs a mental health intervention. He is a few fries short of a happy meal.
ALL the fries short!
all politicians lie about various things, but why does it seem like the GOP is infested with pathological liars? They seem to think that no one will check upon on their nonsense.
For all of their claims of being good Christians, why is it that they go out of their way to lie, something that their deity absolutely hates? and why don't other Christians call them on it? It makes them seeem that none of them actually pays any attention to their supposedly important faith.
I have wondered that myself. That they can say things that are RECORDED and then say they did not say them----or attempt to weasel their way out the interpretation they meant but must now cover up---------------------well beyond reason.
they confess in church ... all is forgiven
And when they are called on it, and can't spin their own words, then they start crying "go ahead and spin it like the media always do," blah, blah.
Their sheep -- ummmmm...I mean followers -- *won't* check up on them.
That much is obvious.
Those shee....FOLLOWERS (damn...can't help myself, I guess) are brain-dead from watching Faux "News" and their "fair and balanced reporting" and "reporters."
Rolando makes an important point. I worked for one of these "religious" people once who told me that it didn't matter what he did as long as he confessed his sins. The guy lied, connived, and treated people like dirt. Then he lectured people about how imperfect they were. But, in his own eyes, his morality was beyond question.
Most protestants believe that you confess your sins directly to God through prayer.
Your local sociopath... these men and women in the GOP running this time are the dreggs... the bottom of what ever barrel was left over when the campaign to stall all Obama proposals ran aground against the economy.
They are not thoughtful-- it was seen to that all thoughtful candidates got no traction. Buddy Roemer, Jon Huntsman... heck, even the New Mexico senator couldn't get any traction. I guess the GOP intends to take this one as a pass-- and come out swinging in 2016.
I got here through a link posted by an exquisitely angry Christian who was making a lot of noise about this.
That's something. I have no idea if it's enough. I don't know any U.S. conservatives myself, so I don't know what I can do in response except try harder to be a non-#¤%&.
- All media personalities, ever.
(and we wonder how these schmucks ever get elected in the first place instead of laughed out of the room)
So, let's stir up the populous to fear the government and those dreaded "death panels" but it's okay to let the private insurance companies make life and death decisions about health care?
Where's the sanity in that?
Because its about "free enterprise" and each person should take care of his own. Our government cannot be viewed as by the people and a collaborative societal effort to provide health care for everyone is a bad thing to be feared. So if Churches and private insurance companies dictate health care we are supposed welcome that...Because its different.
@Jen - It's about the bottom line (theirs not yours) - they've all got stock in those "private firms" how else are they supposed to "make money"?!?
Much worse, is that right here in America, -formerly the Land of the Free-, healthy young citizens travel to foreign countries where they are involuntarily killed by godless heathens!
I speak, of course, of the military. . .
it's not involuntary what you speak of. get your facts straight. there was no draft and no guns held up to anyone's head forcing them to serve their country. anyone ignorant enough to draw conclusions with no facts and no basis of truth are no better than the lying politicians we complain about here. every single person in the armed forces chose to do so for their own reason but the bottom line there is CHOICE. the freedom to serve your country to earn the highest respect from people. and to still see, after so much the military has done for FREEDOM, ignorant people who hate the military do not understand anything. people like you DAY-3905329 are the godless heathens that we military seek to destroy, it just so happens we're on your side....for now. respect the military for the volunteers that die and NEVER negate any of the deaths and make them meaningless!
1
Actually, it is a MANDATE that MEN register their name for the draft. Is the frothy mix of fecal matter and lube willing to end that MANDATE? I will also point out that my father did not join the military of his own free will. He was forced to do it and called to go ot war by a right wing crook named Nixon.
FTR John many of us girls wouldn't be opposed to the military draft applying to us too. Well...assuming that we wanted to keep the draft mandate around. If we could reasonably do away w/ it that'd be another option.
Get your facts straight, USA1804! The young men in question did not volunteer to be killed- and did everything to avoid it. Unlike the Taliban, we do not recruit kamikazis.
In 1963 I VOLUNTEERED to join the United States Army, and remained there for six years. What did you do in the war?
Who said anything about hating the military. I believe what is hated is the lies that got those brave men and women to put their lives on the line for bold faced LIES!.
Much like the proven lies we hear everyday coming from the radical republicans.
The truth doesn't matter to them. Which is amazing since these right wing extremists always blast the idea of the truth being "relative." They know that if they repeat something enough, their followers will believe. Salon has a great article about this today:
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/24/the_ugly_delusions_of_the_educated_conservative/singleton/
"Truthiness"
Its madness, of course, Steve, but its "sheer". It has nothing to do with scissors. [/pedant]
I have developed a reflex, this campaign. When stuff like this appears on my teevee, I tend to blurt "Lying sack of @!$%#" at the top of my lungs. Scares the crap out of mrs efgoldman.
I bet. Then again I see people walking around talking to themselves all day. Some do have those stupid headphones on that go to their cell phones which of course lead to their wallets.
It took me a while to get used to the sight of Wal Mart zombies walking the aisles and yapping away at the wind.
Uh-I do not work at wal fart by the way. Just read what I wrote and though I needed to clear that up. I see these "people" in their cars , in parks, in theatres danged if I don't see them everywhere
Uh oh too Suess like The righties are going to get me now. There they are riding their bike even riding a cow....
It's working... the Repubs are making me fear the government. At least if they are in charge! Given the recent assaults on women's freedoms, and voter suppression, who knows what they will dream up next. Maybe the reason they keep bringing up things like death panels is that they are actively thinking about them!
GIS for Shear Madness
Meanwhile back at campaign headquarters those "persons" formerly known as Corporations and the rich one percent continue to buy the government (in the name of the lord no less)
Santorum is a lying sack of sh-t in a sweater vest. Maybe if lying to the public as an elected official was punishable by public hanging we wouldn't have half the problems we do. Not only is our feedom disappearing, but our ability to hear the truth is only on the internet anymore.
In the recent Medal of Honor/Stolen Valor case, Justice Scalia commented that he expected politicians to lie. "Nobody believes all that stuff, right?"
Or "sheer madness" unless you are referencing the play.
The dictionary says--
Shear has to do with cutting, like 'shear sheep'; or a shear force.
Sheer has to do with "total", like 'sheer ignorance'.
The GOP are trying to violate the rights of women in mass, requiring identification papers for brown-skinned people/ creating morality tests as well as political affiliation tests for adoption, while denigrating anyone who does not fit their ideal of moral. Mr. Sanitarium {sic} who more resembles that guy in Europe to whom you compared President Obama than your party?
Rachel- It would be sheer madness, not shear (shaving/haircutting) madness.
Not Rachel......Steve
I would think "shear" is correct...this madness is cutting to the core.
If Santorum is pressed on "Dutch death panels," he'll probably say he read it someplace - which means on a right wing blog or Drudge or Breitbart.
This reminds of when my physician prescribed a medication for me that had a long list of potential side-effects. After reading the list, the doctor invited me to call him if I had any questions about what I'd be taking for the next 14 days before adding, "Just promise me that you won't go into a chat room on-line where Lurlene in Alabama or Dwayne in Montana promises to 'tell the truth' about the drug."
It sounds as if Santorum went into a chatroom where he got the low-down on the Dutch health care system from a Lurlene or Dwyane. What's scary is that a Drudge will headline Santorum's line about the Dutch which means it'll get picked up by Fox and pretty soon right wingers will be insisting that Obama is going to make everyone over 65 wear "kill me" bracelets.
http://www.prolifelouisiana.org/education/end-of-life-issues/where-is-assisted-suicide-legal-in-the-world.html
Looks like Santorum got his facts from this website.
I use the term "facts" loosely, as Santorum does.
I see a pattern growing on the right: the idea is that you have to protect people from themselves. Protect people from drugs, contraception, abortion, homosexuality, and also apparently suicide. A business starts drilling on your neighbor's land and poisons your water? Feh that's the free market. You want to personally smoke a joint? That's sin!
As someone who researches end-of-life decision making as an academic career (I work in a UK university in the Law School), this kind of stuff drives me completely nuts. There is, in fact, quite a considerable amount of evidence about the Dutch practices which stimulates real, honest, actual debate which is worth paying attention to. Additionally, there is evidence from Oregon and Belgium (there's less from Switzerland, Washington or Montana )- which also legalize at least some assisted dying practices. All stuff like this does is pull attention away from real issues. I spent a number of days a couple of years ago trying to track down source material for the 'Do not euthanize' bracelets (although it was cards then). There is absolutely no credible evidence that 10,000 people are walking around with them.
Its logical to me. I am a hospice/nursing home nurse, working in this field for over 20 years. If the Dutch actually do wear any bracelet, its probably because they choose DNR over full code. Perhaps if found unconscious and taken to the hospital, they automatically receive a full code, perhaps wearing the bracelet is so they do not receive CPR. Working with the elderly, perhaps one out of 100 actually wishes a full code. Most elderly sign DNR papers. "Good Lord, let me go. Don't make me come back."
Hey, here in South Carolina they tried to pass a law that said if you did not specify on your license that you are not an organ donor then your organs were fair game when you die. So republican of them.
They have twisted the DNR order that many, including most doctors, have in their Living Wills.
The DNR, Do Not Resuscitate, means that no extra ordinary measures are to be taken at the end of life.
Just another example of some nutjob saying stuff he knows people who don't think will believe. Saying stupid stuff isn't so much the problem, but people's gullibility is truly frightening because then they go and vote.
It's just like religion! Mr. Santorum doesn't need a shred of evidence for that either!
And if we believed as Santorum believes, why would we worry about it? We'd just move on to heaven. !! I tell people, "if you believe what we profess to believe, why would we want to stay here?" If you know where you are going, is it such a terrible thing? Santorum supposedly believes in heaven, yet he';s trying to scare people about dying. Doesn't make sense to me.
But people listen and believe him! help :O
I over heard a bunch say that they like Santorum since he's Republican he must be ok. Now, how do you combat that?
This kind of fictionalized cautionary taletelling is purely Catholic in nature. I was exposed to this kind of scare tactic in Catholic school in the 70's. The impunity with which priests, nuns & indoctrinated teachers spewed crap like this was astounding to someone who was not brought up in that environment. Questioning was NOT an option. Listening to Santorum (& newly Catholic Gingrich for that matter) is alarmingly like a high school flashback for me.
The only - ONLY - thing I find damning in Steve's assessment of Santorum's lunacy is this: We have no proof Santorum is the one who "made this up."
I don't say this to excuse Santorum - as others have pointed out, checking facts now seems to be a liability instead of an asset in right-wing circles and it damages the nation as a result. But I can tell from my youthful indiscretions with organized religion - both Catholic and Evangelical - horsecrap like this becomes fact while Jesus is still getting on His sandals in the morning. Went to an event in the eighties that was billed as "the born-again Woodstock," and the gossip flying around there is not dissimilar to "Dutch death panels." In fact (if I may digress) the only thing close to a "sane" moment I remember from that weekend was a Sam Kinison-like minister, loud and funny, who had a sermon/monologue about "backwards masking" in music, artists supposedly Satanic messages deep in their music where you had to play it backwards or otherwise actively seek it out to find it. His message, in a nutshell was, if it's in there backwards, it's in there forwards, so don't listen to it either way. For someone living an Evangelical lifestyle (you know, a choice, heehee), using that to preach "don't listen to any music that doesn't praise His name" at least is somewhat intellectually honest...
Back to my previous rant.
Just like that lady 4 years ago who told McCain that she didn't trust Obama because "he's a mooslim" probably didn't make that up out of whole cloth but heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another Obama's been Mooslimming around, so too is Santorum PROBABLY hearing about Dutch death panels from one source (a prior town meeting, a fundraising dinner with no press allowed where people talk freely and they all gin up each others' paranoia) and sharing it at another.
Again, this sort of thing should be fact checked, and what will be more damning IMHO is if/how Santorum continues to use this shpiel long after it's been debunked anywhere/everywhere else. I think THAT will say a lot more about his "character" than spreading the falsehood in the first place.
But the ultimate takeaway from this might be: Yes, some politicians lie. Some lie a lot. But until/unless the lie has been debunked to the politician's face and he continues to use the lie, you can't be sure the lie is deliberate. It's the difference between "that's a lie" and "that's bull@!$%#," because you can use the former when the person speaking knows about the latter. Republicans believe their dear leaders, so when you call them liars, they tend to exalt them higher - "how DARE you impugn the integrity of this great man?" But if you call them out for bull@!$%#, well, wait a minute, not everyone knows when they're slinging bull@!$%#, why my uncle sent me one of those Bill Gates will donate a dollar to a dying child each time this email gets forwarded and I passed it right along so maybe this IS bull@!$%#...
Likely? No. But it does afford the left a slim teeny chance to prove a lie is a lie without necessarily, directly, impugning the character of the one lying. But ah, once you prove the lie, if the liar keeps lying, then those true believers have to work extra hard to pull the wool over their own eyes. You're never gonna convince everyone to not listen to the nonsense uttered by slime like Santorum. But you have a better chance when you can debate the facts, as opposed to the man teisting the facts to suit his agenda, which happens to be wht his base wants to hear.
For a copy of this transcript, hit command-C.
Do a google on the Manhattan Declaration and the Couslon Watergate guy.
It's all laid out there and they have been broadcasting this on their radio stations and in the churches who have signed up.
The Netherlands has its share of social problems. Their health care system is not one of them. I would say shame on Santorum, but my Dutch friends are probably tickled that he deigned them evil enough to mention in his lies. Maybe we should start giving badges of honor to all those persons and organizations that Santorum thinks* are liberal/evil/radical/socialist enough to rail against.
*"think" is a relative term.
People like Santorum ruin our relationships with other countries. Would you want this guy to represent you on the world stage????
Texas Governor Rick Perry has "euthanized" something like 230+ citizens since he was elected Governor. Has Rick Santorum or Mitt Romney ever brought that up ?
Lived in Holland a while. Liked it a lot. Good observations & analysis, too. But - as long as we're on the fact-checking thread - we probably want to fix the typo's.
Last paragraph: "It's sheer madness". 'Shear Madness' is a popular comedy about haircutting.
As much as the lies themselves, the complete lack of compunction about telling lie after lie is appalling. Santorum and Romney are the worst, and the fact that they are the two frontrunners says alot about the gullibillity, ignorance, and/or indifference of the GOP faithful. It is truly scary what path the country would follow with these people in charge. I'm not saying the Dems are saints, but man, this season the GOP has gone out of its mind.