Associated Press
Santorum's recent speech at an "indoctrination mill."
When Rick Santorum argued recently against public education, he was largely referring to K-through-12 public schools. As it turns out, though, the Republican presidential hopeful doesn't like higher ed, either, insisting the other day that President Obama only wants to help young people go to college so they can undergo "indoctrination."
On the president's efforts to boost college attendance, Santorum said, "I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely ... The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country."
He claimed that "62 percent of kids who go into college with a faith commitment leave without it," but declined to cite a source for the figure. And he floated the idea of requiring that universities that receive public funds have "intellectual diversity" on campus.
Santorum added that Obama's efforts to help young people afford college tuition makes the president a "snob."
This doesn't exactly come as a surprise, and not only because Santorum revels in anti-intellectualism as a matter of course. In 2008, the former senator argued that Satan had succeeded in his attacks on academia, so it stands to reason the conservative politician would have some concerns about higher ed in the United States.
That said, even by Santorum standards, this is pretty nutty. As Kevin Drum put it, "It's commonplace for movement conservatives to believe that universities are dens of depravity and radical left indoctrination. So far, so normal. But as far as I know, most of them don't believe that efforts to get more kids into college are motivated by a desire to destroy their faith. That's a step beyond even normal wingnut land."
Quite right. My larger concern is the trajectory of Santorum's rhetoric: if access to college degrees is itself a culture-war issue, and Republicans start arguing en masse that policymakers need not prioritize higher ed as a national value, the consequences for the country and the economy could prove to be significant.
Matt Yglesias explained this morning, "[T]he fact is that America has historically been the richest country on the planet because we've invested in being the best-educated country on the planet. In recent decades, we've seen the pace of educational progress slow down markedly. The high school dropout rate is too high. Far too many students who enter college don't complete it. People disagree quite vigorously about what it is we can do to decrease the high school dropout rate and increase the share of high school graduates who are well-prepared to obtain additional schooling. That's a good thing. A little disagreement is healthy. But the emergence of a block of people so driven by resentment of college professors that they want to abandon the goal of improving American education is a disturbing trend."
Incidentally, if Santorum believes publicly-funded universities may need to start requiring "intellectual diversity" on campus, how in the world would that work? And what about students whose ideologies change during their academic careers?
Leave a Comment:
Doesn't santorum have a BA, MBA and JD degree?
Romney's looking more like a pathological posturer while santorum's looking more-and-more like the pathological liar.
well, i guess some indoctrination is ok depending on who you are! This guy is a danger to any thinking human. Remember what Sinclair Lewis said -
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”
Candidate Belongs-in-a-Mental-Sanitorium's position runs afoul that of the early founders of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. They established a theocracy -- and "public" education. "Public" in quotes because while the first elementary school (Boston Latin Public School, established in 1633) was called "public" there was tuition. A year later, the same group established Harvard. The strongest advocate for public education was John Cotton. While not on the Mayflower, he gave the sermon to the departing group at the port of Plymouth (in England). He was highly educated (at Cambridge), and a teacher. He is also an ancestor to the actor John Lithgow.
Shortly after he arrived at the Massachusetts Bay Colony himself, in 1632, he argued for establishing Boston Latin Public School, which has existed continuously since 1633, and is now part of the Boston Public School system.
Of course, Cotton and his peers were for education as indoctrination (as is candidate Belongs-in-a-Mental-Sanitorium. But that's another story.
Here's another of Lewis' quotes that seems appropriate to discussions of Mr. Santorum:
“She did her work with the thoroughness of a mind which reveres details and never quite understands them.”
Well, yes Santorum does hold those degrees, but let us not forget Boss, The Manatee and Lonesome Rhodes have at little or no postsecondary education much less earned degrees and they are the philosphical leaders of the Right.
It may be true that 62% of those who go to college with faith leave without it, but it probably doesn't have much to do with the classes they take. Liberal education has been all but abandoned in favor of career training and most students are not exposed to philosophy or other subjects that may challenge their religious beliefs. More likely it is a matter of learning that being both skeptical and open-minded are necessary aspects of rational thinking.
yes......there are too many now mistaking the necessary and ever-evolving war on ignorance as a war on religion.....if your religion won't withstand the light of day, you better make up a new one, quick, for the light of day is coming, as sure as a baby gon poop his pants.......
I suspect that candidate Santorum needs to be medicated with lithium. Seriously!!
I guess I'm a snob then because I want my kid going to college.
The President has said this for four years, but when he uses the term "college", he's not referring to only universities. He includes technical schools, junior colleges, AND 4-year + institutions of HIGHER LEARNING. Look at the context when he talks about "college". It's almost always referring to how people can become more highly skilled so they are employable and looking for solutions or making our economy robust again. Don't buy in to the Republican word choices like "government run schools" or "elite educations" or "indoctrination factories". And, on another subject, don't let Republicans' use of "Obamacare" go unchallenged. Correct them and call it by its name - the Affordable Care Act. Don't call Romney's law in MA "Romneycare". It only reinforces the idea they can disparage efforts to get both healthcare and education to all citizens.
Totally agree. The emphasis should be on AFFORDABLE, a direct pushback on rising health insurance costs.
So Santorum likes his citizens like he seems to like his women.....dumb, subservient and unquestioning.
I'd been dismissing Santorum lately as little more than an ignorant intolerant blowhard, sadly he has now begun moving firmly into the realm of disturbingly unbalanced.
He's starting to make my skin crawl.
My ex wasn't religious, but he started sounding like Santorum, in his off beat ideas and expectations of the government. This went on for a couple of weeks until his full blown manic episode started. Then he really started to sound totally nuts. Santorum reminds me of my ex. Seriously.
"Santorum added that Obama's efforts to help young people afford college tuition makes the president a "snob."
Doesn't Santorum hold a "Law Degree", and while his children were "home-schooled" will none of them go to college?!? What an idiot!! Exactly whom does he believe will continue the lead in this nation in R&D, if not for those educated masses?!? Yet another reason this dolt doesn't even need to be considered as a candidate!!
He actually has TWO post-grad degrees: an MBA and a JD.
But we already knew that he was a snob!
Rick Santorum's father, Aldo Santorum, earned a doctorate degree in psychology and worked as a clinical psychologist for the VA. Aldo Santorum said that the greatest gift he received was the GI Bill, so that he could attend college after serving in WWII. Rick Santorum's mother, Catherine Dughi Santorum, worked as an administrative nurse. Rick Santorum's wife, Karen Garver Santorum, is a former nurse. Rick Santorum's daughter, Elizabeth, is a junior at the Catholic University of Dallas (majoring in political science). Have they all been "indoctrinated"?
Ha, yes and he is a typical Republican/religious HYPOCRITE!!!! He sounds like such a nutjob. I can't imagine the problems this country will face if he actually became president. It's a very scary thought. Look, I'm a liberal person at heart and live my life that way, however, I respect all types of people and their political views, etc., but this man definitely should not be running for president.
I've been reading Nicholas Lemann's 2006 book Redemption: The Last Battle of the Civil War, about Reconstruction. The rhetoric surrounding funding of public schools and eviscerating tax collections now is the same used by Southern whites to deny education to anyone they considered inferior to white people. There are differences now since there are so many more non-white varieties, the rhetoric has spread outside of the South, and the party representing educational aspirations for all is now the Democratic party. Otherwise, the nastiness embedded in all the code words is exactly the same.
Educated people think for themselves. Santorum's biggest fear.
That's exactly the truth. Keep us mindless.
Also, Santorium is pandering to lower class voters who are envious of educated people.
"Also, Santorium is pandering to lower class voters who are envious of educated people."
Really? REALLY?
So, Santorum is actually saying "We want to keep you stupid". No code, no camoflage, it just boils down to educated people vs. stupid people. Wow.
It's classic authoritarian projection. Authoritarian's automatically believe that their kids will submit to a higher authority, in this case the professor. Free will? That's for liberal leftists.
When I went to college, the surest path to an A was to challenge a position with supporting evidence. But I guess basing your arguments on "cuz my Dad says so" doesn't get you very far.
Exactly, I often took the opposite position just because it ensured that I would get an A if I was able to make a decent argument (even if I didn't believe it myself). Professors dig that sort of stuff.
It is called critical thinking. Any college that is worth its credetials should be teaching critical thinking. The Republicans cannot allow that because anyone who knows how to think critically will not believe their lies. Santorum is the kind of Catholic who bows to authority. Anyone who bows to authority without question is a servant of Satan and cannot be relied upon to make rational decisions that question his chosen authority, in Santorum's case the Catholic Church.
bffynch
A good friend of mine teaches logic and critical thinking at an Orange County (CA)community college. He loves it when his conservative students try at him. He really shows them a thing or two. It's mother's milk to him!
MariaBlumberg
I am glad that someone is still teaching critical thinking. One would not know it by listening to the Republican candidates.
I have three college degrees from three different Universities. I don't think I ever had a professor who tried to indoctrianate me. They all tried to open the minds of their students, and that is what I always tried to teach my students.
How utterly marvelous that St.Torum is so certain that his way of thinking is so right for the rest of us. How does he explain, having his unshakable faith, that he is so afraid of anything different in ideas, beliefs , life-styles and political leanings? Are the sharers of his ideals so weak in their faith, that they are at risk to be tempted by a more normal world?
Santorum is full of santorum.
He makes up statistics on a whim, such as the lie that gays are more likely to be pedophiles (actually they are less likely) or this 62% statistic that is quoted in this article. This is a person who used his position in the Senate to become a millionaire and then calls the president a snob for wanting poor people to have equal opportunity to get a college education. Fortunately if he gets the nomination it does seem that there aren't enough people in this country that would be crazy enough to vote for him for him to be elected, but the fact that he even has a possibility of being the republican nominee indicates just how far into the lunatic fringe the republican party has descended.
7% of pedophile cases are for homosexual acts. On 2-5% of the population self-identify as gay or bisexual.
What is a 'homosexual act?'
Usually, it happens in Act II.
Erik - If 7% of pedophile cases are for homosexual acts, how many of the 7% are "celibate" Catholic priests?
It's a great day for race equality when a black man can be considered a 'snob' and 'too elite' ....
I think that's from an Onion headline or something.
Don't be too happy, Shuklack. What Santorum said isn't all that far removed from 'uppity n*****'.
Gesundheit.
Rick Santorum honestly believes the best thing for America, living in a high tech age, is for our next generation to forgo an advanced education.
Just exactly what other ideas would he push through as President? What he says scares the hell out of me, but not even half as much as what he isn't saying.
There is no bottom to the "stupid." Expect more.
so college teaching people how to think critically and rationally is a bad thing, but churches teaching children what to think is a good thing?
Now you've got it. See, it's not that hard to understand.
Typical religious hogwash. It's sad but this is they way most of the republican catholics would like everyone to live their lives. Very rigid, repressive ideas. I know first hand because my x husband is a staunch republican, me, a very liberal (close to left wing in many ways) and I'm going thru the whole "elitist snob" thing with him regarding our son's college education now because he is applying to Ivy leagues, etc. due to his being a top student at a specialized high school in NY which my x calls a "hippie school". I keep telling him you are so rigid and close minded and ignorant about this and it's only hurting our son. He feels his son should be happy attending a SUNY or CUNY school and not go away to some hippie, liberal, elite college. He doesn't seem to get it and it's tearing me apart. He doesn't seem to get that our son has a great shot at getting into a top school because he is very smart, a hard worker, almost perfect SAT scores, great essays, very high AP test scores, captain of his track team, etc. I told him I know parents who would give their left arm to have their kid get into Yale or Cornell, etc. and he just doesn't htink its a big deal. good thing we got divorced or our son would have wound up going to a catholic high school, and that would have been a nightmare.
That's the first time I have heard hippie used to refer to an Ivy League college. Your ex knows that Republicans like Bush went to Ivy League colleges? Right?
Very succinctly put. As an educator I teach my kids that they may not remember anything specific I show them but will learn how to learn and investigate for themselves. A talent sadly lacking and suffering from the SOL driven curriculua often pushed in schools. Luckily we are turning the tide!
Yes, Universities shouldn't be allowed to indoctrinate people, only churches can be allowed to do that! Only churches that aren't broken. Only churches that I happen to agree with. Only churches who espouse my exact views should be allowed to indoctrinate people!
No, only churches that espouse *Santorum's* beliefs (not *your's*) should be allowed to do that.
Religious run corporate fed Universities are the goal.
I was gobbsmacked when I heard that he called Obama a snob because he promotes education.
Has there ever been a president who did not support higher education?
I santorum saying that he doesnt support higher education?
We have crossed over into crazyland now.
I want to hear rick tell his constituents to keep their kids barefoot and stupid....and to get them married and pregnant young so they wont have the option to go to the big city and learn evil ways..."we cant risk educating them at the price of satan getting his claws into them."
Now?!?!?!
While he's stupid to say it out loud, it is true that there are too many kids in college; i.e., more than there are jobs appropriate to college degrees. If we want to increase manufacturing, like it is popular to say, then we need more kids going to trade schools and less to colleges.
If he had used the speech to encourage trade schools then I would agree with you.
Unfortunately he used it to warn parents that if they send their kids to college they will lose them to satan.
Just as many should go to college, if not more, but just as many more should enroll in technical and trade schools. Uneducated just doesn't cut it.
Santorum was speaking in an attempt to deride the recent changes to college policy made by President Obama. Almost all of those changes, w/ some exceptions to lending and grants from the government, pertained to technical schools, trade schools, and community colleges which offer certificates and degrees (usually A.A.'s) in the most in-demand areas of education. Santorum's statement is essentially saying that he disagrees w/ all of these aspects of Obama's policy. This is especially hypocritical because A. Santorum has already proposed something very similar to PBO's plan and B. Santorum attended Ivy League school.
BTW, manufacturing jobs aren't the same as they were 50 years ago. Most manufacturing jobs today require advanced technological and computer related training, which can be obtained along with critical thinking and decision making skills, in college. The days of graduating high school and hooking onto the assembly line are, for the most part, over.
You can have only a HS degree & enlist in the military, but if you want to stay competitive and make the higher enlisted ranks you are expected to have some higher education. Mininum 2 yr degree, but preferred a 4 yr. The world has changed and we expect a higher level of education for most jobs, including blue collar jobs. The military officer's have to start with a 4yr degree, but have to get a masters or doctorates to be competitive to make it past 03 or 04.
Santorum shows many of the classic signs of mental illness. Wake up Republicans. He shouldn't get anywere close to the White House.
You are correct Spiral. My cousin had to get her graduates degree in order for the Army to promote her to Major. She went to ROTC school to get her bachelors in Chemistry and then the Army said they wouldn't promote her again until she got her graduates. In order to reach Colonel I believe she said she has to go to pharmacy school, although I'm not 100% sure if that's correct. I don't talk to her personally- I usually talk to her sister since she's on deployment right now, but I digress: even the US Army requires that you get higher education in order to advance.
I also know several people on the enlisted level who, w/ an exception for some jobs, had to get a degree to advance into the higher NCO ranks. In fact the Air Force Sergeant I talked to a while back about joining said that she had to finish her degree in Criminal Justice before they would promote her to I think Master Sergeant it was.
Oh yeah, colleges and universities are packed with liberals. We've got all the plum jobs: humanities, the arts, languages. Those lucrative and powerful endowed chairs in poetry, we've got all o'them sewed up. The conservatives have to somehow get by with only business, law, medicine, and engineering. And, increasingly, economics. Poor, poor conservatives. It's sad, really.
Your sarcasm made my day. Thanks.
Well, don't forget there are all those historians who can get consultancies for $1.6 million... every last liberal one of them. Riiiight.
And, oh, the money we humanities people make!
Really? Where are all these college jobs in the humanities? When I got my Ph.D. in English Literature with a specialty in Shakespeare in 1971, I could not get a job as an assistant professor. After about five years teaching freshman and sophomore English, I finally had to give up and go to work at a defense contractor.
The problem with colleges and universities these days is that they teach too many courses that the "conservatives" would approve, like business and engineering and not enough of those "liberal" subjects that teach critical thinking. As Dylan Ratigan has pointed out, what we need is more critical thinking that will help people to adapt to a changing world. The "conservatives" do not want change.
bffynch
I work at a library with many Shakespeare folios and quartos, including a good and bad quarto of Hamlet.
The best job I ever had was in a university archive which included special collections. I really should have gone into that field. I'm a fool.
I advise all parents to keep their kids at home as much as possible...as rick does...so that you can better control what they learn. Then...marry them off young...as young as possible because once they have a few kids it sill be tough for them to wander far from home...and from the holy path.
To keep them on the right path you just need to severely limit their options.
Keep it simple. Keep them simple.
That is the path to heaven.
mporter, i love u.
Former Senator Santorum would be an excellent leader of the 11th Century Crusades. His inspirational rhetoric would inspire many followers. I am sure that he also has questions about whether the sun revolves around the earth.
If Mr. Frothy ever becomes President, then it might be a good idea to invest in a company that designs and manufactures chastity belts. (The manufacturing will be outsourced, of course, because a faith-based supervisor would help indoctrinate those poor Buddhists, Muslims, and/or Hare Krishnas into becoming good Catholics.)
Was he Torquemada in a previous life or what?
Santorum is right: Nothing will turn young people into flaming radicals quicker than a clueless middle-aged prof muttering "Death to America" from behind a genuine imitation wood lecturn.
What a country we are living in these days.I can't believe that a person who publicly demonizes our public education system,and would discourage higher education could be a front runner for the GOP presidential nomination. What a road to lead this country down. It's not a path I would go down willingly. Wake up America before it's too late,let's send these Right wing nuts packing,right back to their caves.
Indoctrination mills? LOL...a religious nut, sexist, AND a conspiracy theorist.
Do you ever wonder if he believes in Snake Handling, or fire walking, witch hunts?
I am so happy that he says things like this while he is campaigning rather than potentially after he is elected . This way people know that he would to send our country back into the dark ages.
We might as well adopt feudalism so all the peasants can work the fields. I mean peasants don't need to be educated right.
Yeah The Daily Show did a spoof on that. Rick Santorum is the guy every conservative wants, but they hate him because he won't keep his mouth shut about the conservative agenda. ;-)
Sorry I had a blonde moment. I meant to link the TDS clip I was referring to. Oopsies! Here it is:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-february-23-2012/indecision-2012---rick-santorum-s-conservative-rhetoric
Oh, my, Mouzer, that link is priceless! I laughed so hard I scared the cats.
Yeah, encouraging kids to go to college is 'elitist.' And encouraging students to develop critical thinking skills is 'indoctrination.' What the hell happened to my father's Republican party?
The Tea Party and the Southern Good Old Boy states!
While I can't agree with his percentage, it is true that some kids with a faith commitment going into college, come out without one. But I believe that is because they didn't *really* have a faith commitment. They were only spouting what their parents wanted to hear. Once they get out into the world, out from under their parents' rule, they start thinking for themselves.
And while they may not stay committed while in college I'm sure many of them find it again when they start families of their own.
Also, if parents are so concerned about their child's faith then they should send them to a religious university.
One would think that college students, exposed to new ways of experiencing and understanding their world, might just challenge the ideas they were brought up with. That's not a failure, it's a success.
Sounds like someone is Jealous! Santorum would rather we were all "indoctrinated" according to "HIS" church teachings and all others are working for the devil. He sounds less and less like a sane person, and more and more like Iran's president. Newt secretly wants to be grand wizard of the ku klux klan, and Santorum wants to be the saviour of tax-free religious business interests. He sounds like he would do much much better trying to get elected as Irans president, seems those two are "birds-of-a-feather"'
Corinthians tells us:
"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
And Santorum tells us: "The Church fills our little Tabulae Rasa with myth and fantasy. And then colleges come along and replace them with fact and reason."
I am getting sicker and sicker listening to this babbling fool. I think Santorum's next move will be repealing the rights of women to vote. Come on people!! Wake up and smell the coffee.
No no! don't you see! the next move will be to repeal coffee as the delicious steamy black tool of the devil. If he repeals coffee we'll fall into an easy influenced zombie like state.