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This idea started with Jess Idres and Ali Davis, and kept on going.
A bunch of folks have been asking why Virginia got the nation in such an uproar over its vaginal ultrasounds bill, when Texas has had an even stricter one on the books for months now.
"I hate to say this, but in Texas we can fight all day long, but there's a propensity to write us off," said state Rep. Garnet Coleman, D-Houston.
"They think, 'That's Texas. Texas is a place where those kinds of things happen.'"
So maybe that's Texas. Meanwhile, Alabama Republicans would like their own vaginal ultrasound bill. Alabama Senate Bill 12 actually says "vaginal" right in it, so there's no sense in lawmakers pretending they don't know that's part of the deal. If you read the language of the bill, you'll see that they think the state's right extends inside a woman's body, as do the rights of anyone claiming to be the father, as do the rights of anyone claiming to be the grandparents.
From the bill (pdf):
Any person upon whom an abortion has been performed without compliance with this act, the father of the unborn child who was the subject of the abortion, or the grandparent of an unborn child may maintain an action against the person who performed the abortion in knowing or reckless violation of this act for actual and punitive damages....
In every civil or criminal proceeding or action brought under this act, the court shall rule whether the anonymity of any female upon whom an abortion has been performed or attempted to be performed shall be preserved from public disclosure if she does not give her consent to such disclosure.
And let's not leave out Pennsylvania, where vaginal ultrasound House Bill 1077 requires that images from the procedure be placed in a woman's line of sight. Republican state Rep. Todd Rock promises, "[Y]ou can turn your head or close your eyes."
So Pennsylvania's willing to insert the state into your body, but they'll stop short at propping your eyelids open.
P.S. In covering the unraveling of Virginia's ultrasound bill, the Washington Post made a special note of our segment with the vaginal probes "emblazoned with slogans such as, 'If you can read this, your government is too close." That's a hat tip to viewer #maddow Twitter pals Ali Davis and Jess Idres, and maybe another answer to the question about why the Texas bill hasn't gotten more attention. Producer Rebekah Dryden, who has done such terrific work for us on these stories, says that when the Texas bill passed, it wasn't clear to everyone what it required. The monogrammed probes were a brilliant way to help the public understand the issue. Ali and Jess, take a bow.
P.P.S. I don't say this enough but please, TRMS crowd, send more stuff. Seriously.
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What is happening to my country? When did the crazy people land and take over the brains of half the country? I can only imagine what the rest of the civilized world thinks of our nation.
This country has lost numerous IQ points. Between Santorum and Satan and more attention being paid to "lady parts" rather than jobs, we look like fools. When I lived in the UK 1999-2005, we, the USA (Bush) were criticized as fools. When Bush made his dig at the French, the following day I was going through customs at DeGaulle...just about strip searched.
I am so ashamed that the collective thought of the extreme right has us looking as if we were stupid, petty and foolish. Were I a younger man, I'd be back in the UK .Now I am just another struggling Senior trying to make it. 22 years of education and I can't even find a part-time job.
The GOP wackos (of which Cardinal Santorum is at the helm) are on a WAR AGAINST WOMEN .... and have spent the past few years on their agenda to limit women's rights and eventually overturn Roe v Wade ... defunding Planned Parenthood and spreading LIES about their mission ... declaring embryonic 'personhood' .... and working to outlaw birth control .... how many dots on the graph do you need before you realize that it is a war against Women's Rights?
as for Santorum:
This Catholic would institute a war on our rights as Americans and replace them with his Catholic beliefs .... they have run the tape where he says that contraception is wrong .... and he would work to repeal a woman's right to choose .... does anyone remember Terry Schiavo???? would you like him to step into your family's rights and continue the suffering of one of your relatives against your wishes???..... could this possibly be the government sticking their nose into your private matters???? .... he would repeal DADT and continue his hatred for gay Americans .... and just look at how many people are right there with him..... this is indeed scary .... I do not believe we have ever had a candidate so hell bent on making his religion part of the laws of our land ... I don't know which is worse - infusing his religion into our laws or the ignorance and hatred he continues to spread across our country ....
Women need to UNITE and make sure this man and others like him who would put women back in the middle ages are VOTED OUT OF OFFICE .... YOUR VOTES COUNT and it is the future of OUR RIGHTS as Wives - Mothers - Daughters - and Sisters on the line!!!!
What we need is a full list of these religious zealots who are actively working to take away Women's Rights - so we can work together to VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE ....
< !-- begin snark -- >
Crackpots Unite!
Christians must unite to vote for conservative men with rape fantasies. Involving pregnant women. Women with no college education. And doctors. Don't forget the doctors.
Because the bible says so.
< !-- end snark -- >
How much of this crap do we go thru before we can debate some JOBS Programs? What has this got to do with the Economy? Dems need to keep punching the legislature with Job Plans and let the Rupukes continue to do nothing...This is stupid!
Communism (kom-yuh-niz-uhm) noun
Poor Vampire just does not get it.
We do not need any jobs bills or jobs programs except legislation to cut taxes further on the job creators and to free businesses from regulations. When this is accomplished the Free Market will Florish like never before. The economy will come roaring back and all will be well as the rising tide lifts all boats.
Of course there are those who do not have boats. These people will drown, but progress in a free land always requires sacrifice.
@Next, I realize that you're being a bit sarcastic to say the least, but with the GOP bozos and the booing audience sheeple, and the restrictive re-designation of "women as children", and attempts at "poll taxes" going on - these people are not just frightening, it's horrifying!!
Forget the "Stepford wife" they want the Stepford family!!!
Next, I have to agree.
You say there aren't enough jobs? Making you submit to lie detector about your invovlement with the Communist Party as a precondition of getting a driver's license will fix that!
Anymore complaints? We'll throw you in a pond and see if you float to determine whether or not you are a witch as a precondition of keeping your own bank account.
It doesn't fix the problem, but it makes the complaints disappear like magic.
Our rights are being violated repeatedly. Isn't there any recourse? Arne't any of these rights going to be defended and protected by the courts? Can't the federal government do something, because according to the right, we have a huge central gov't.?
Please don't take this the wrong way, but no. You can't imagine what the rest of the civilized world thinks of our nation. I spent too much of the last twelve years in Europe and Asia and even the carefully polite comments of my colleagues were disturbing.
@D.C...The time that I spent in Turkey and Germany, I had to defend and point out the "True America' on a daily basis. Back then everyone was getting their information from the National Inquirer. I don't wont to think about how we are looked uponed now.
[sarcasm]You can place an aspirin between the pages of your pocket Constitution.[/sarcasm]
andthe Chair of the Health Committee just happens to sell ultrasound equipment to all the AL Hospitals who would be required to do this horrible procedure on incest and rape victims! Follow the $$$ and the thumping sound....
Ya know, I would have some respect for the ‘anti’ argument if it really came from a ‘pro-life’ place.
It doesn’t.
From what I have seen, the conservatives don’t actually care much about children at all.
If they cared, really cared, we’d see evidence of that in their support of education, of early intervention, of Head Start and Birth to Three, of after school programs, of mentoring programs, families …. You get the idea.
But, given all the cuts made to service programs, I have to think children are not the priority.
So, what is the argument about?
Then I visualized a woman 8 months pregnant with a toddler on her hip. Who is more competitive in the job market or on the college campus, this woman or a 25 year old man?
So, is that the issue?
They want woman at home, in the kitchen, not competing in the work place?
That is why abortion and contraception matter to these folks?
I'll second the sentiment of one sage: As far as Republicans are concerned, life starts at conception and ends at birth.
Excellent point. That needs to be repeated everywhere because I think that you have figured it out. Good for you!
Jay,
Great point! The GOP's jobs plan: "Get women out of the work force".
I'll third the sentiment of one sage: As far as Republicans are concerned, life starts at
conceptionfirst glance and ends atbirthcollege graduation.That's why I call them pro-birthers. Once that baby is born they don't want to give the parent(s) TANF, WIC, or anything else that may be needed to rear an all around healthy human.
@crackhead....ends before college....they only want Rich kids to go to college!!!
Following those principles, many families can not afford to support a stay at home mom and several children. Many of these families require public assistance in one form or another, something these same people are supposedly against. Nothing like being in the midst of public misinformation and contradiction.
... and ends when they try to go to work.
Does this mean that a woman's vagina is actually state property? Just think all you straight boys, when you're having your way with your girl, you're actually screwing your governor.
I wonder if the state will require women to put something like a parking meter by their bed so they can use that money to pay off their deficits?
I see an increase in suicides and mutilations caused by botched "DIY" abortions. I see fetuses in dumpsters. I see the right in a quandry. If they allow these things to be reported the rise will be easily proven but if they insist police and hospitals cover these things up then prosecutions will be impossible thus causing the whole mess to get out of control.
Dude, we just left this situation....Rich young girls will have private procedures and the rest will end up in back alley dumps and quack garage clinics....can you say....HERE WE GO AGAIN!!!
Physican-patient confidentiality. Exactly right Vampire.
Hmmm. Could be a revenue source: permits for use.
A woman's vagina is government property. As is the woman who houses it. That is why a slave was always explicitly a black woman's child. White women had "free issue" with black men. Hence the horror of "anchor babies." All of those illegal vaginas who may or may not be smuggling in "anchor babies" from across the border! White women aborting their babies, throwing off the racial balance letting mud people get that toe hold they desperately need to grind us under their brown heel!
[Massive facial tic.]
I swear I'm picking up extremist rightwing talk radio subliminally somehow.
Gotta love rational and common sense thinking.....My ancestors had the for-sight to be owned by Cherokee slave owners (making brown and red babies) and on my mother's side; my Great Great Grandfather (Black man) was smart enough to marry a Scottish immigrant (making tan babies) and without getting his neck stretched......my disclaimer for my ideals and thought process. Guess I'll never be nominated as a Republican Presidential Candidate.
Speaking of vaginas...
The trees are just the right height in South Carolina and Alabama!!!
The Alabama bill is worse than that! It requires the doctor to describe, in detail, what is in the image. There are no exclusions for rape victims, ectopic pregnancies, or miscarriages (where the fetus is dead). Oh yes, the chairman of the House Health committee which passed the bill (Greg Reed) is VP of the company that provides most of the ultrasound equipment in the Southeastern region.
Follow the money, honey. Someone always seems to be getting rich on the "social agenda" of the GOP.
So how does Greg Reed get away with being a VP of an ultrasound equipment company and having any vote on this issue? Isn't that against the law?
Good question.
http://www.leftinalabama.com/
....so the father can sue a woman who has an abortion or the grandparents can sue a woman who has an abortion for damage claims? Wow. Since when do grandparents get to sue or have any say in what a child does or doesn't do? That would be one thing if we were talking about a situation in which the grandparents were acting as the legal guardians- then I could totally understand. But if it's an embryo or a fetus then the grandparents aren't acting as legal guardian. There's no way that they could be. And as far as the father is concerned...how would he know he's the father? There wouldn't be a way to DNA test the embryo or fetus once aborted. So what any man can claim that he was the sire of a child of any woman whom he suspects of having an abortion? And he can just sue her for this? So he can just take money away from her for no apparent reason? From a legal perspective this bill is so laughably contorted. Do these people even realize how many legal cases will have to take place just to hash out the rules? Good lord.
Also, on a completely unrelated note, yay for Jess and Ali getting a shout out ;-)
This bill is in Alabama so that pretty much says a lot. Even a conservative court is going to strike down the law because it goes to far and grants rights that conflict with the woman's rights which are superior. You cannot legislate away the woman's constitutional right. The Alabama legislature has too much time on its hands or they don't have more important state issues which I find hard to believe.
Assuming that this bill stood the test of court- which I'm in complete agreement w/ you that it will not- this bill would be essentially mandating that a male rapist had more authority over his female victim's child than her same-sex spouse. I mean how convoluted of a bill can you get from a legal perspective? Nevermind the morality of the damn thing: there is no way to legally enforce something like this.
If I read the quoted passage correctly, either the woman who has the abortion, the father of the baby, or the grandparents can all sue the provider of the abortion. In other words, they're trying to discourage providers from even doing abortions, thus limiting the rights of women in Alabama to have an abortion because there won't be any providers doing them for fear of law suits.
There is nothing in Roe v. Wade to suggest that anyone other than the woman and the state has an interest in the pregnancy. The law is the product of gross stupidity. But this sort of legislation makes it easy for a federal court to strike down the law.
Republicans: vote for us and we promise small
governmentminds.This from the anti-political correctness crowd of Alabama? ?
Ya can't say Happy Holidays in AL because that's liberal PC, don't tell an Alabamian not to make fat jokes because that is liberal PC, don't tell them not to spank their kids because that's liberal PC.
But day-um if conservative PC doesn't call for fair and equal access to a woman's vag by legislators, doctors, men who may or may not be the father, reporters to publish your name, and your grandparents filing lawsuits because they found a positive pregnancy test kit in your trash.
How about everyone BUT the woman gets to decide.
Guess who isn't speaking up? The men who didn't want the kid either. The grandparents who are already raising grandkids. Doctors who refuse to violate their patients, let alone violate the doctor/patient privilege. Any media that doesn't want to become the abortion police, especially in small towns where some of those names will be people they know. Where are their voices?
You are correct that I misread the statement. It is saying that the father or grandparents can sue the doctor if the doctor does not perform the transvaginal ultrasound. Apologies for not reading that correctly the first time. I keep telling myself to stop blogging while I'm working, but I'm a terrible learner ;-)
That would still mean, however, that the potential father would have rights that far extend beyond those of the woman herself or of her actual partner. Even current law doesn't want to go that far. That would still mean I am correct that this is laughably unenforceable. But you are correct that the emphasis is to scare the doctor out of the practice as opposed to the patient.
Cause, ya know, wouldn't want a doctor performing an abortion. That's something that should be left up to the creep-o in the alley who keeps promising to exchange your lungs for gills if you'll just 'lie down a minute.' Sigh
http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=156589&title=little-neptune
This is almost like outlawing medical care.
The overall effect of this law is to increase medical costs and force women to travel to Democrat states for affordable/competent medical care.
Malpractice is supposed to be reserved for gross deviation from accepted medical practice resulting in injury or false billing (negligence and fraud).
About 10% of natural births go wrong. Placenta covering cervix. Breech birth. Umbilical cord wrapped around neck. Prolonged labor. And so on. Intervention is required to protect the fetus or the mother when that happens. Gynecology malpractice insurance is the highest of all medical professions for that reason.
Medical cost must go up if law increases malpractice law suits. The fetus sometimes does not survive. This law means every goofball that has "found god" can claim to be a relative and sue the doctor every time an "act of god" happens.
Gynecologists are going to change profession or leave the state when this becomes common. One of my friends was forced to change hospital affiliation and insurance companies because of a law suit involving a still birth.
I am not a fan of Leviticus - as people like to quote one sentence out of 23 passages detailing all the types of nakedness that men cannot uncover - especially pertaining to family members. Which makes this type of legislation exasperating: to my mind it essentially grants rapists and incestuos family members with the moral authority to "give the gift of God" to women. No one has talked about the married men whose wives get raped. What is their take on this? Do they feel that the small government has just butted into his private feelings about the matter? If the husband says to his wife, "Honey, you've just got raped, and I want you to get an abortion because the kid will remind me that I wasn't there to protect you from this," what then? Now he won't be able to protect her from a vaginal ultra-sound either or anything else that these bills effectively bar him from making decisions on. Talk about emasculation! The legal questions will be wrangled over in court and I hope intelligent minds prevail - I am not so hopeful about the moral integrity prevailing. Passing bills that sanction rapists tells me the morality of the people in office is nil.
If anyone proceeds to act in cohesion with these deviant bible thumpers and right wing perverts, I hope the victim hires a great lawyer and sues the crap out of all those who contributed to the violation. I wonder if the next bill they will try to pass into law will be that, as long as women are fertile, they will not be allowed to say "no" to their husbands occasionally.
Where do you get the idea that conservative courts are going to appeal to fantasies with no basis in reality, such as the last two words quoted.
In Illinois a similar ultrasound bill was passed by the Agriculture and Conservation Committee of all things! Now it goes on to the full Illinois House. Like Illinois women are now equated with cows and pigs? What the heck was it doing in an Ag committee? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/24/illinois-abortion-bills-a_n_1299562.html
I doubt it will pass the Illinois House. There are too many Dems and suburban Republicans that are not going to vote for the bill. Downstate Republicans are a different story. But suburban Republicans are not Tea Party Republicans. Voting for this bill would be suicide.
There is also a similar bill up for consideration in Idaho, although it doesn't specifically mention teh probe.
Alabama, here's a hearing aid. Apparently you haven't been listening closely enough.
Sorry, can't hear you over the screaming about religious violation.
The PDF says Alabama SB 12 is enrolled. Holy Penetration, Batman! That means it has already passed both chambers and is in the Governor's hands!
We do, in fact, have two political parties and one of them is, in fact, insane.
That is not accurate. It has passed from the Senate Health Committee to the full Senate. It is expected that it will be taken up TOMORROW in the Senate. When the GOP took control, they stopped posting the agendas, so people would NOT know when items would be up, so people would not know when to attend to protest.
Well, it is encouraging to learn in Alabama "enrolled" does not mean what "enrolled" means elsewhere. So like Alabama. *sigh*
Insana Tea. Party that is.
Look Ma! I've moved to Virginia to raise my I.Q. Because nobody else has any brains!
Oh great, a Pro-Life Super PAC: http://prolifesuperpac.com/
Of course the grand parents need to have their say. The longer you can slow down an abortion, the better the chances that by the time it gets resolved, the baby is too far along to abort. These politicians are such scumbags. They think they're so clever.....
I feel so sorry for rational Americans who will be generalized as stupid because of all the lunacy going on with their politicians.
In Virginia, we've got a song to rally 'round:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybs_kDYrlQs
Awesome!
I read a diary at DailyKos that the Alabama legislator that introduced the bill is the VP of a company that MAKES those rape wands. THAT seems like the bigger story.
Senator Greg Reed, Chairperson of the Senate Health Committee, is the Vice President of Preferred Medical Systems, a company that sells ultrasound equipment.
Exactly on point. That FACT should be disclosed somehow - although it might make the Senator feel embarrassed about the blatant lining of his own pockets with the passing of the bill.
Wait - I don't think he'd be embarrassed at all.
None of them else are, right? sigh
As an "older" woman, I am thoroughly disgusted with the Republican politicians trying to take over our country . . . one vagina at a time!!!
"any female upon whom an abortion has been performed or attempted to be performed"
Because let us not forget, women are NEVER making the decision to terminate a pregnancy on their own. WE -- the forced-birth crowd -- know what is best for these poor, defenseless creatures and are only trying to protect them!
---
I haven't heard a bigger load of paternalist horsesh!t in a long time.
We must protect women from themselves! The fact that they aren't asking us to protect them is evidence enough that we need to be protecting them! Remember if you're not expressly against it then you're obviously for it!
The GOP claim to be for smaller, less intrusive government. I would love to hear them explain how inserting a probe into a woman is less intrusive! Where are the jobs, jobs, jobs the were taking about in the last election, unless they mean to create jobs buy filling the openings in ultrasounds???
McConnel and Perry both have large investments and lobbist intrests in the medical supply. This is worthy of more investigation.
Sorry having problems with the editing of last post. Should read McDonnel of Va.
lobbyist intrest's
As stated above, keeping women barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen is the best way to ensure jobs for all the men. >.X
These vaginal ultrasound bills are really a joke, right? Is America having a laugh behind women's backs? I'm hoping that on April 1st the states of Pennsylvania, Alabama, Texas, and Virginia are going to say, "Just kidding ladies! April Fools!" Then we'll all laugh as one happy country that believes in their women to make the best decisions for themselves and their families.
No. Oklahoma has had this law since 2010.
Joke - yes
New - no
http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/family-planning-clinic-funding-2012/
link provides a graph of women's health clinics in Texas with pregnancy rate data by county.
Most of the Family Planning clinics were closed in the state by Jan.2012.
I don't remember who said this few days ago in one of the MSNBC segment, but I thought she sum up what is going on perfectly:
The GOP really wants a government, just small enough to be put into a woman's vagina.
Well, actually they want to include the interior of her uterus, too.
jobs jobs jobs
fair wages, fair wages, fair wages. fair share, fair share, fair share.
If the idea is to show women the ugly side of what they want to do, then how about a companion bill that requires people wanting to marry to sit through someone's divorce and child custody negotiations be for they can be issued a marriage license? "Are you SURE you want to do this?"
Please Rachel...why aren't they calling this what it is. Non-consensual penetration is rape. From the US Attorney General's office: "“The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.” http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/January/12-ag-018.html
If they come at me with that probe, I'm going to ask to see their search warrant. Last I heard, abortion isn't a crime in these United States.
Only, I, decide to allow or disallow a doctor to put a probe up any of my orifices, that's my own business! I'm a man by the way. Of course I defend the same right for women. Anyone who wishes to dispute this in the doctor's office best be ready for a broken nose, etc! This bill is so convoluted, to try and follow the reasoning brings about a lapse in reality to any sane person who lives in a free country.
Maybe a proposal should be enacted: for a minimally sized probe to be placed up "an un-named" orifice of all politicians to assure it isn't so tight they may die days after election from inability to perform a most important function to survive another day! Sarcasm?, yes. 'a little insane?, yes. Equally justifiable?, YES.
For some reason this calls to mind a scene from "The Mask."
I keep thinking of alien abduction. It's not so amusing when it's done by real people on state orders.