As "This Week in God" settles in on Saturday mornings, the God Machine has plenty to offer again this week.
First up is a church-state case out of San Diego, where a 29-foot-high cross sits on a 14-foot pedestal on public land. The property was owned by the city, but Congress bought the space and declared it a war memorial a few years ago. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said the display violates the separation of church and state, but this week, the Justice Department asked the Supreme Court to overturn that ruling.
The federal government is urging the U.S. Supreme Court to take up the case on the future of the Mount Soledad cross in La Jolla.
In a petition filed Monday with the high court, Justice Department lawyers said that a decision last year by the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which said the landmark was unconstitutional because it signified government support of a religion on public land, has to be reviewed.
The government argued the appeals court decision improperly nullified an official act of Congress and conflicts with recent Supreme Court decisions on the display of religious symbols on public property.
What strikes me as interesting about this is the larger political context: it's the Obama administration siding in support of religious activism, at a time when Republicans argue the Obama administration is waging a "war" on faith. Indeed, Steve Chapman recently explained that, GOP rhetoric notwithstanding, religious people "found Barack Obama and his Justice Department to be staunch allies."
As Chapman put it, "The president's detractors may continue to portray him as a secular fanatic with, as Rick Santorum claims, an 'overt hostility to faith in America.' Before they do, though, they might want to remember the Ten Commandments -- especially the one about bearing false witness."
Also from the God Machine this week:
* A Pennsylvania atheist group is under fire for racially-charged billboards in Harrisburg.
* The Catholic Church in Sacramento cut off funding for a homeless-services agency because its new director's supports Planned Parenthood and gay marriage. The agency, Francis House, is now relying on private donations, which have been generous in the wake of the church's decision (thanks to reader R.P. for the tip).
* In the week's most cringe-worthy religion story, radical TV preacher Pat Robertson shared his thoughts on whether oral sex within marriage is a sin. If you watch the clip, prepare to be uncomfortable.
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I learn so much from TWIG. I never realized homeless sex was so problematic in Sacramento. If that is the case it would seem that Catholic Charities would want these people to have a home so as to cut down on the rampant sex. By the way, how are gay people using Planned Parenthood?
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/sexual-orientation-gender-4329.htm
Gay people use Planned Parenthood the say way straight people do. They do STD screening and prevention. And lesbians need to have pelvic exams and pap smears for the same reasons straight women do.
The woman in the video struck me as completely juvenile. Adults should be able to talk about such things without getting childish about it.
I wonder what laconically based reply would in effect reflect the on the gritty purchase presumed in a statement absenting the role eugenics played in fifth century BCE Lakonia .
I suppose strained would provide less grit ...
I am going to be a walking contradiction (I.E. a hypocrite) here...on the one hand I feel super bad for this, on the other hand I'm annoyed w/ the controversy.
Atheists should not support slavery or racial discrimination
On the other hand, the Bible actually does justify racial discrimination and in particular slavery
There is something w/in me that is unsettled by the idea that they'd put this is a black neighborhood and portray a black person when slavery could just as easily apply to white people like the Irish or the Jews. Something is very wrong w/ that....
So I don't know how to feel here. I do not like imagery of slavery or repression, but the Bible itself encouraged slavery and in fact, back in the days when slavery was legal, it's supporters said that they justified slavery 'because it's in the Bible.'
I suppose I will just say I apologize on behalf of atheists for the poor placement and imagery (as I explained)....but I suppose I cannot apologize for the outrage considering it's context.
Does this make me a bad person?
Hey Mouzer,
I don't interpret this as atheists supporting slavery or racial discrimination. The group that put this billboard up did so to evoke a response, which they did. Rather quickly. So, congratulations, atheist group who put up this billboard. Your mission was accomplished.
They used this imagery in a Black neighborhood because 1) the image of a Black slave in chains will strike the strongest chords in a Black community and 2) faith and spirituality have been central themes in African American culture. Considering the latter point, a Bible verse paired with that image is like a one-two punch to drive home the point that there are Bible passages that one would think invalidates this book as a guide for how a society should conduct itself.
The folks who put up this billboard knew exactly what they were doing. You do not have to apologize on behalf of atheists. Just as I no longer feel the need to apologize on behalf of the Catholic Church. Individuals speak and act on their own behalf. We should take responsibility for our own souls and should be our brother's keeper because it is the right thing to do from a human, not Biblical, standpoint.
I might be missing something--is there some sort of structure under which atheists operate that is akin to having a head of a Church? Do members pledge to follow the teachings or beliefs of this head atheist? If so, doesn't that make atheism a religion in itself (at least a pseudoreligion)? I would just caution my atheist friends to be wary of charismatic leaders--they tend to F everything up by pushing the limits of their perceived power. I'm not trying to trivialize atheism, I just don't know enough about the way it is organized.
So, no, you are not a bad person.
I'm just wondering why there is no outrage that PA would issue a decree proclaiming "The Year of the Bible." Equal representation, folks--next year should be the year of the Quran, and then the year of the Talmud, and then the year of the Book of Mormon, etc, etc, etc.
Peace,
MG
Microgeek, Atheism is not organized. There are groups of atheists who sometimes act together. But Atheists do not have a structure. Atheism doesn't work like religion. There are sometimes famous Atheists who are popular, but atheists don't "follow" them.
It's hard to explain because I'm sure you'd say "If you have groups and you have books and you have people actively fighting against religious people, than surely you have a religion, a structure, a binding philosophy." But we don't.
It's more like a demographic than a social network. We share a common characteristic, not believing in a deity. It would be like saying "surely blonde people have a structure, a religion." They really don't, even if a group of blonde people made a club for themselves, it wouldn't change the definition of being blonde, you wouldn't have a requisite philosophy for being blonde. "Being Blonde," would still be all about hair color.
This was just an example of someone who was an atheist doing something stupid. Which is to be expected. Not believing in a God doesn't say anything about whether you are intelligent, or unintelligent, and though many atheists think that being atheist is a rationalist position, it doesn't inoculate someone from being really stupid.
Thanks for the explanation, Vox.
Having books and groups to explain your stance doesn't constitute a religious-like structure. But when one guy or small group grants themselves permission to speak and act on behalf of their demographic, then the lines get blurred. And when these folks do something that others perceive as stupid, then that leads to those who fall into that demographic to feel the need to apologize for the group. I'd love it if we could all just act and speak for ourselves when it comes to matters of faith. When you throw organization into the mix, then the will of man supersedes the will of God. Much like one person putting up a provocative billboard risks the reputation of those of you who fall into the same demographic.
When I see those who claim to be Christian speaking for God, the humorist in me imagines Jesus sitting at the kitchen table, perusing the Sunday papers--and all of them, because he can and not because he can't remember what he reads *Ahem*Sarah Palin*Ahem*. Anyway, while flipping through the papers, my poor God shakes his head, slams down the coffee cup and screams, "I didn't say that! They are taking me out of context! Where's my agent? Peter, get in here!"
Anyway, I welcome conversations about belief/nonbelief systems. It's interesting to learn where those who share opposing (or just different) viewpoints are coming from. I just wish we could do so without picking fights. But then again, the religious tend to throw the first stones. But I will not apologize for them ;-).
Happy Sunday,
MG
Oh, and, yes, it would be nice to have a vaccine for the stupid. I'll have my fellow microgeeks get on it.
Do you think the NIH would fund something like that?
Yeah, when I was a Christian, I would sometimes wonder what it would be like to live under some other belief system, but it's actually a lot like it was before, I never believed in the Greek gods after all, or Norse, or Egyptian, so I already knew what it was like to not believe this was just going one God more.
The real strange thing is how often I find myself trying to explain Christianity and defend it against what these political Christians portray it as. An Evangelical (I was always wary of that term even as a Christian,) or a Tea Party member will misrepresent the bible and I start thinking "No, that's not the right argument, you're supposed to make this argument." or "Why aren't you bringing up the part of the bible where Jesus said this."
I still don't believe, but as long as they're talking about Jesus, they should get it right. I still have a lot of friends and family members who are Christians and these Political Zealots are making them look bad.
Besides, Even though I don't believe Jesus was supernatural, he was still a great philosopher, and the way they twist his words to suit their political agenda is just sick.
So with a mormon a catholic and a christian whom a lot of Evangelicals think is muslim all in the mix this election cycle, it's inevitable that the nation is going to keep talking about religion, and though it's really hard for there to be talk of religion without fighting, lets at least hope some actual learning occurs, and we get to see some people standing up to represent the real Jesus, and not just "Conservative Republican-Jesus"
Well said, Vox.
It really isn't strange that you have to explain Christianity to Christians. Many of my atheist friends are far more advanced in their Biblical knowledge than most Christians I know (I'm embarrassed to admit that this includes myself. We Catholics got the Cliffs notes briefing of the Bible). It seems that we take knowledge for granted when we've already accepted our beliefs. I believe and that's enough, right? It's when we don't believe something that we feel the need to get it right. We do this as scientists. I'll find myself doing a much more extensive lit search when arguing an opposing view point than when I agree with a conclusion. I guess when you are going to tell a person that he/she has it wrong, it is much better to be able to say, "I think you are wrong, and here's why..." than "Now, I don't have the facts to back this up, but...."
Cheers.
Re: That Cross in San Diego
The cross is on top of Mount Soledad, below and to the north of which resides the village of La Jolla. Until 1948 it was illegal for Jews to buy real estate in La Jolla (until the Supreme Court ruled against such discrimination in Shelley v Kraemer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelley_v._Kraemer). Until the mid-1960's it was understood that real estate agents would discourage showing any property in the village or La Jolla Shores to any non-whites, most especially Jews (http://www.sandiegotraveltips.com/public/Secrets_of_La_Jolla_California.cfm and http://sdjewishjournal.com/site/2218/past-present-future/).
I repeat, after World War 2 a military town in the United States, headquarters of the Naval Surface Fleet for the Pacific Ocean, had a neighborhood that actively discriminated against Jews.
The first cross at that location was built in 1913. It was knocked down by wind, the second was burned by the KKK because a black family moved into Pacific Beach (south of Mt. Soledad), and the current one, built in 1956, has been repaired over the years.
That cross was a gigantic "Stay the hell out" sign until San Diego decided it wanted to have a major university (UCSD), which sort of requires that you entertain the notion of professors who might not be no-neck WASPs.
Thus the no-necks now insist that the cross is (and always has been) a way of celebrating the sacrifice of all those [protestant] americans who keep America free. (From jews, wetback, yadda yadda yada...)
Stay the hell out of my bedroom and get back to work, that is what we are paying these guys for right?, for them to work for us and not against us. I am so over all the religious and political idiots trying to tell me what they believe is 'right'. Really! These people (religion and right wing politics) have been in bed with each other for decades, get up, get dressed and get back to work!
Amen! Way to tell those prostitutes. Greed rules the church as much as it does our government. The last thing we need is Legislatures representing us telling Uganda to kill the homosexuals or telling our troops that Muslims are lesser beings that can be killed without worry or that we must force the world to accept Christ AKA democracy as they see it.
More people need to understand that the truly important war we must wage is against religious fanatics and their churches that are out to control our every move.
Since all the Godbotherers are depressing me on this, the Day Set Aside For Sinning, I thought we might all benefit from a snicker/facepalm/sa-WOOP over this film about the model for Ned Flander's Praiseland, and a thousand other Bible-themed Bemusement Parks:(via Laughing Squid) http://laughingsquid.com/bible-storyland-quirky-film-about-1960s-ill-fated-theme-park-designed-by-disney-creatives/
I'm off to kill a few bottles of Our Lord's Blood. Behave yourselves, but remember that tomorrow is the day to repent what you'll be doing tonight. No sin, no forgiveness. Do your part.
I don't believe in the Bible, in religion, in Pat Robertson, in faith, in dogma, in sin. My life is simple and happy!
http://www.facebook.com/SeparateChurchState
for additional topic content
Poor sweet Christie, she looked embarrassed and uncomfortable. I knew it at the time as I watched that show that Pat would be catching hell for his comments. He's done a lot of good over the years, but perhaps it's time for him to step down. It's getting to a point that people are tuning in each day just to see if he messes up. Many of you on this blog don't like Pat because of many reasons, but I believe in not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Operation blessing has gone all around the world and has been the first one on the scene many times when a disaster has happened and people need help, or a bigger voice. Pat has been alarming people about the atrocities in the Sudan for many years now, but it took a no name person to do a video, and a Hollywood actor for the news to bring this dire situation to light.
Seems to me that he ok'd homosexual sex if the partners are married....it's about what's in you heart and mind, not what's in someone else's laws or rules....and if the two can't be married bec of someone else's rules...well, if they are married in their hearts and minds, they are clear with him and god....
geesh.
Just what we knew all along....love is in the heart and mind, and two consenting people who love each other are Aok.
Glad we finally got it clear.
And after the spankings, the oral sex! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtcSYPjJbgg
Reading your comment brings back fond memories.
Just because the Church ordains spanking according to their book of teachings, doesn't mean you have to take them as God's word. I've heard Pat Robertson advises faith in personal judgement.
It's a joke, locknpost...a quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.
oh. i see. yes yes, of course. carry on then.
With all this talk about what's right and wrong about sex vis a vis the bible, we have to remember that the first human beings were ORDERED to commit incest! The "Be fruitful and multiply" command by God in Genesis was delivered to Adam and Eve...who were brother and sister! In fact, they were genetically identical (flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone) except for an X and Y chromosome. Their children also had to follow orders and commit incest to populate the world!
It's only a sin if you think it's a sin, and besides that one is part of the Old Law that was superceded 2000 years ago. Lying for a Holy Cause like getting the Kenyan Islamofacist out of the White House cannot be a sin.
There is the point of all this, the Republicans keep talking about bombing Iran and causing the market to speculate on the oil thus causing the prices to rise. Than the Republicans are looking to deregulate the markets again so we can have a big mess again. Than the Republicans keep trying to take women’s rights away a long with restricting the peoples right to vote. The Republicans have got to be the biggest joke in history, do these people even have a mind to think for better things other than to line their pockets and how fast they can put people into despair. To me that is nothing but evil. If these Republicans actually did something right, I think I would fall over in shock. And if these Republicans actually knew what separation of church and state meant and the reasons why we have that would be another shock. These narrow minded restrictive views of Republicans are a farce and makes them the biggest hypocrites and deceivers around in which they know nothing of what it is to be a Christian and care to say what our human nature can be when we are at our worst. In either case, these Republican and rich are definitely doing the worst of what our human nature is.
If the church wants force their silly beliefs into our lives regardless of the separation of church and state, maybe they should start paying their fair share of taxes instead of being tax exempt.
Once again another case of the church wanting to force their beliefs onto the general public totally defying the separation of church and state. If wanting to thrust their beliefs may their tax exempt status should be revoked. This country and the world in fact would be a much better place if the church would keep their noses out of all of our lives.
Anyone else starting to regret having ever been baptized? Anyone else considering trading Christianity for UFOlogy? Anyone else wondering just how low these zealots will go?
The bible--revised: Adam=atom? The story of Adam's rib(where god makes Eve from one of Adam's ribs) is in fact god telling Adam to go F himself. Jesus was a test tube baby implanted into a Virgin by evil Greys. We are all just the result of Martians who long ago(billions of years?) were forced to find a new home because the sun was becoming hostile to Mars but at the same time beneficial to Earth? The disciples were a cult?
Sorry about that.
I happened to watch a movie this week-end that scared the heck out of me. It was was so prophetic that I nearly fell off my couch.
Rain Without Thunder
Watching this movie, I would swear that I was watching something made in the last few years. This movie was made in 1992. I had to look it up because I couldn't believe the year it was made. I used a calculator to make sure my math wasn't fuzzy. Twenty years ago!
But, if you watch it and listen to the dates of the decaying of women's rights, the increased involvement of the church, and the laws that were passed making abortions a crime, you would not believe it.
Please, please TRMS staff, cover this movie.
President Obama must realize that Insane Diegans would readily martyr themselves before having their "holy" icon removed from Mt. Soledad. Insane Diego is boiling over with Jebites.. It's probably wise to pick your battles accordingly as leader of the "free" world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzEnKdBAb_o&feature=share
ahhhh Rachel and Co. I don't see you've done any research on the forged long Form Birth Certificate of Barack Obama. I guess if it doesn't fit your liberal bent.. You either ignore it, or hide it ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8muZ1Pe9OAo&feature=related
I wouldn't say you are a reporter ( I don't even know if You say you are a reporter! ) But. I understand.... you have a hero, right or wrong :)
Give it a break! Isn't he entitled to have an opinion ?
I believe the Pennsylvania director of American Atheists should have clarified his billboard quote from the bible as attributed to St. Paul, just to be clear it wasn't Jesus.
Either way, it's a somewhat offensive depiction used as retaliation for a childish state legislative act. Let those who wish, continue to play in the sandbox they've soiled. Don't jump in, it serves nothing, and the sandcastles are nasty.