There was a curious exchange on "Meet the Press" yesterday, with Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) arguing, with a straight face, that she and her party want American women to be able to "make their own choices for the future of their own bodies." No, seriously, that's what she said.
For those who can't watch clips online, the right-wing Minnesotan argued with a straight face:
"What we want is women to be able to make their own choices.... You see, that's the lie that happens under Obamacare. The president of the United States effectively becomes a health care dictator. Women don't need anyone to tell them what to do on health care. We want women to have their own choices, their own money. That way they can make their own choices for their future on their own bodies."
To be sure, I don't generally expect much in the way of coherence from Bachmann. She proudly embraces bizarre conspiracy theories; she routinely says ridiculous things on national television; she pretends to grasp public policies she doesn't understand; and her worldview is detached from reality. Even as the Republican Party leaps off a right-wing cliff, Bachmann stands out for her unique brand of madness. Her reference to a presidential "health care dictator" helps underscore the point.
But even if we put all of that aside, it's just odd to hear far-right Republicans who oppose women's reproductive rights speak passionately about far-right Republicans wanting women to "make their own choices" about "their own bodies."
Has Bachmann heard about her party's push to restrict contraception access? How about getting rid of Planned Parenthood? Or maybe the state-mandated, medically-unnecessary transvaginal ultrasounds? Perhaps measures to force women to tell their employers why they want birth control have crossed the congresswoman's radar screen?
"What we want is women to be able to make their own choices." Bachmann keeps saying this, but I don't think it means what she thinks it means.
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This is that tired old "I'm Rubber You're Glue" trick. You use words and phrases that mimic what the other side says, and you use it to illustrate that you're reasonable. Of course, Bachman trying to act reasonable is like Hitler trying to kiss a Jewish baby.
In the case of Bachman I don't think this is a 'I'm rubber...' argument. I think any person wants control over their own bodies. With Bachman I think she is making this argument for HER and the restrictions of the Republicans are just for those women that can't THINK straight...I truly think she's clueless.
Wow really, how absolutely brain dead can Bachman be.
No, this kind of jabberwocky speech has become Standard Operating Procedure for the GOTEA Party. Try the sentence diagraming trick on almost anything Mitt Romney says, for example. So many of the very sentences are utterly incomprehensible. The paragraphs are full of internal contradictions. It's because they've entirely given up even trying to persuade anyone of the value or truth of any proposition. They are a party of pure emotional manipulation. They are hoping that 51% of the people who show up to vote won't be paying close enough attention, to notice.
Gary, I fear you may be right. The same thing with GPS ads. They don't have any truth to the them, the simply try to motivate out of fear. The entire Republican Agenda for 2012 should be BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID!
Gary - I felt that way listening to Reagan, both Bushes, McCain & Palin - diagramming their statements ALWAYS reveals a cognitive disconnect - they just say whatever they think will provoke the desired emotional response from their supporters and low/no information voters. Facts are completely irrelevant.
I mean, really, how incredibly ignorant does ANYone have to be to believe Mitt Romney? 92% of all jobs lost in the recession were women's jobs? And people act like that is even plausible.....how stupid are people? No, wait, the question should be: how desperate are conservatives to keep hearing only what they want to hear that they don't even question the stupidest claims?
The real question is ... is there a brain inside her Cranial cavity ?...
@ PeePartyPatriot: There is at least one brain cell in that cranial cavity. I can hear it rattling when she shakes her head.
Gary, I just had a thought when I read your comment. Maybe Romney and the others say such silly and contradictory statements so they can be "snipped and clipped" at some date in the future to prove whatever argument they are trying to make at the time. When they speak both sides of an argument they can create any soundbite they want.
Can we now leave this manufactured issue and have the candidates discuss real issues that affect us. Such as: jobs, inflation, deficit, debt, entitlements. Oh!. I forgot Obama can't discuss these since he's done nothing about them.
then you haven't been listening Tom...but that's how you roll, right?
Please enlighten me on what he has said.
Good example of misdirection, Tom. You can't find a way to defend Bachman, so you attack Obama.
I had no intention of defending Bachman. I merely want to discuss real issues
Tom a real issue will be seen today when The Senate votes on The Buffet Rule
Tom--Well, since someone obviously has to explain it to you...women's health IS a real issue. Whether a couple decides to start / continue their family has economic repercussions. Not just on the family personally, but also for their employers. Who performs the tasks of the people on maternity / paternity leave? What if one of them decides to stay home and that worker needs to be replaced? That affects productivity. If one decides to stay home, that reduces their income and therefore ability to spend. Less spending, less taxes paid in...less taxes, less ability to reduce the debt and increased chance that this family may need help from a safety net. Without the ability to plan the number and spacing of children, the likelihood of one parent having to stay home increases. Get it now? I won't even go into the whole women's privacy thing, because I don't think your misogynist brain could wrap around it.
But, Tom, you're not discussing issues, you're just baldly stating that Obama has done nothing about jobs, etc.
Here, let me try . . .
The Republican party hates women. If you disagree, "enlighten me" on that.
Oops, I hit 'like' instead of reply. I don't like! It is the GOP who has done NOTHING on these issues.
Even if that were the case, and anyone who pays attention knows it isn't, Obama did not cause this disaster. That was George W. Bush, the phony conservative who spent money on wars we did not need to fight. Bush left town with the last dollar in the US treasury and Republicans have the gall to blame Obama for the mess. Please. Try to at least be a little rational.
This is exactly what I'm saying, "how desperate are conservatives to keep hearing only what they want to hear that they don't even question the stupidest claims?"
Tom is a perfect example of that - he doesn't even care that he is completely wrong, and that there are many, MANY facts that prove him wrong. The onlt thing that matters to him and the other wingers is that he makes accusations that make him feel good about being a right winger.
Facts are irrelevant to right wingers.
It's not desperation at all. They simply don't CARE what the truth is. Who needs truth when you have hate ?
The repub politicians can say ANYTHING they want to their voters because the voters aren't listening. Fox fills everybody in on whats "really going on" anyway.
The only thing they want to hear is Obama, Obama, Obama (insert hate here) Once the hate starts flowing that's when the voters start paying attention. Anything besides bigotry and hate is just unimportant background noise to the average teahadist. Besides that .. they already know who they're voting for. They'll be voting for "not the black guy" in November. And anything else they need to know between now and then will be driven into their heads by faux noise.
Democrats will stop talking about contraception, abortion, and other women's healthcare issues when Republicans stop passing bills that affect contraception, abortion, and other women's healthcare issues.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/us/politics/obama-plan-to-cut-deficit-will-trim-spending.html
http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/186307-cbo-obama-jobs-bill-reduces-budget-deficit
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&refer=news&sid=aei7Fn0ISrwo
http://www.gallup.com/poll/127724/job-creation-best-november-2008.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148379/job-creation-index-highest-september-2008.aspx
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2009/01/12/daily50.html
Turns out PBO has good record on jobs and inflation and the budget
My friend TOM, It's apparent to me that you are a Republican,and you all have learned very well that when you don't have a clue blame someone else. The President has flipped over backward to work with your party. Tom, it's your party that has this country in the shape that we're in.
How in the heck COULD Obama do anything about those issues when he is up against a group of fools that have refused from the very beginning to even LISTEN to his ideas?? The whole agenda of the right wing has been to make sure that he is a one term president and they've done a really great job of doing NOTHING to help the country. They won't even listen to anyone's ideas except their own and people are onto them now. In all of the years I've been following politics and elections I have NEVER seen anything even remotely close to what has happened these last 3 and a half years and the idiotic stubbornness of the very people who should want to help our country. I would be very embarrassed to be a part of the republican party right now and even more embarrassed to be one of the people that has consistently voted down anything Obama wants to pass.
But if you're a typical low-info voter, and you hear a Republican using Democratic talking points, maybe you won't know who to trust on this issue. It's all so confusing, you're just trying to get through your day, keep your head above water. It's like politicians make things confusing on purpose, you think. And then you decide you can't make a choice as to which way our country should go out of a fear you'll make the "wrong choice." And on Election Day, you won't vote...
And that's how Republicans win.
OK two things. 1) This is another great lie in the 'Cult of Domesticity'...rich white women should have control over their own bodies but poor women don't know WHAT they need and should be restricted. 2) 'Don't let the Democrats come between you and your Doctor'...the rallying cry of the right during the ACA debates. Unless of course, it's REPUBLICANS and/or the Church coming between you and your doctor and that's because we are SMARTER than the doctors.
The fact that these anti-women's emancipation positions of the Republican GOTEA Party are religiously motivated has not received enough attention. This isn't just a political party that has been taken over by the "most conservative" elements of their base, as the MSNBC talking heads including Maddow love to say. It's a party that has been distilled down to an essence of religious people who want Jesus to run the country. This is a big, important deal, and it should be openly and widely discussed.
Yeah ... because doctors use that weird ... sciencey stuff !
And they always seem to be talking about facts and other frivolous matters.
The funny thing is poor people do not have access to health savings accounts. Health savings accounts are only available to people who actually have money to put away for savings. This is the fundamental flaw w/ those accounts. Additionally- and what Ms. Bachmann forgot to tell you- the ACA didn't eliminate health savings accounts, but actually expanded the tax credit you get for them. So upper class people actually can use them w/o much interruption.
It comes down to- as always- the poor
Thank you Michelle for bolstering my argument
America : too stupid for democracy.
That such a mentally unballanced individual such as yourself gets elected and actually runs for president says more about the F**king stupidity of the voters in your district than it does about you .
Someone please test the water.
Touche !... They need to send the E.P.A. (before it gets abolished by Romney) over to her district to test not only the WATER ! but also take AIR samples !...
Michele Bachmann is the personification of the word "AIRHEAD" !...
I like to use the term pneumocephalic because people like Bachmann think it's a compliment.
Lmao ...
Pneumocephalus = The presence of air or gas withing the cranial cavity..
I think it may also apply to the Bull***t that comes out of MITT ROMNEY'S mouth.
@aldewitt: and I use the word "anencephalic" for exactly the same reason!
Yes, Bachmann wants women to have a choice: whether to be stay-at-home moms or working moms.
Close, I think.
Bachmann and those like her are all for women making their own choices, provided they chose from the very short menu that is selected for them. For right-wingers, freedom is being able to do only what they are comfortable with. Having real choices means potentially doing what they are not comfortable with; and since they only have two settings, on and off, being allowed to make unsanctioned choices is the same as being forced to make unsanctioned choices. Restricting choices is liberation from the tyranny of possibly making the wrong choice.
Right-wing thinking about choice and personal liberty is like the old, old joke about the Model-T: you can get it in any color you want, as long as it's black.
It seems to me that the 'choice' Bachmann is refering to here is a woman's choice to spend her money on the health and medical services that the Republicans get to decide are available. So yes, it's all about choice based on your ability to pay, and choice of an ever-decreasing number of options.
Self-censorship is the end result of effective cult indoctrination.
guess shes trying for a Veep spot, think she makes the short list.
as there are not many sane (LOL) possibly.
The best thing for Obama's reelection would have been Santorum winning the Republican primary. The second best thing would be for Bachman to be chosen as Rommney's running mate. (Fingers crossed but I doubt the party handlers will allow Palin 2 after the Palin 1 mess.)
Republicans and conservatives are too wrapped up in their own preposterous talking points to achieve a nominal grasp on reality. They brazenly and distastefully peddle a fake controversy over innocuous comments from some random TV pundit while completely ignoring the broader questions on women's rights and issues affecting women today. Ann Romney and Bachmann speak of the "choice" for women to stay at home, yet they refuse to acknowledge that the real choice American women care about is having control of their own lives and their own bodies. So long as Americans make the "choice" deemed proper by totalitarian conservatives, they'll be fine... http://www.sunstateactivist.org
Repubs to women: Here are your choices. Raise children from home. Or raise children while working. But make no mistake ... you WILL be raising children !
I cannot tell you how upset I was with David Gregory sitting there not saying a word allowing Bachmann spout this BS. All I could think of was if Rachel was doing this segment she would have had Bachmann doing the same thing she had Senator James Inhofe doing a few weeks ago and that was a imitation of Ralph Kramden explaining something to wife Alice "Homina Homina"
DAVID GREGORY is a CLOSET REPUBLICAN , who was seen dancing up a storm at RUSH LIMBAUGS wedding in 201O !..
The guy is a total fake !..
He will never be or even come close to filling the shoes of the late great Tim Russert ! R.I.P.
This is not the 1st time Gregory has tossed softball questions worthy of FOX News at Republicans and there talking points. Comcast & NBC need to understand we Progressives & Liberals expect NBC to slant discussions to the Left the same way Conservative outlets slant things to the right
I say we come up with an online petition to get DAVID GREGORY replaced with RACHEL MADDOW on MEET THE PRESS !..
I know she would make TIM RUSSERT proud !...
Actually, liberals expect journalists to have a bias for facts, truth, evidence, science, and rational debate grounded in objective reality. We don't need a "left" leaning news organization. We need a news industry which doesn't grant false equivalency to the otherworldly obsessions and lies of the theocratic fascist movement.
Thank you Gary, for saying what needed to be said.
@Gary , Dude... can you now translate that into english ?... Thanks..
Having seen this segment I could not believe what a completely horrible job that Gregory did as moderator. He just should have gotten up and given Bachmann his chair. It was painful to watch. He is an embarrassment.
Gillibrand as always was well spoken. If I were her I would not return to his show.
Gary's comment seemed pretty clear to me. Fox's "news" outlet is so horrible because of the bias they attach to everything they report, not because that bias is right-wing. If I want to hear speeches and discussions that pointedly lean "my way", I'll attend an Obama (or other progressive candidate) rally. I tune into the news to get information that has, as Gary said, "a bias for facts, truth, evidence, science, and rational debate grounded in objective reality". Mr Gregory seems like a decent enough fellow but he clearly has a problem separating his opinion from his reporting which is what this thread was discussing.
Amen!!! It was a terrible injustice to the other lady. Bachman got all of the time she wanted to spout her crap and David G. just kept letting her do it!! That was the most poorly run show I've ever seen him do and I think he should be replaced with someone who will not be so biased. And even if he ISN"T biased, he obviously doesn't know the rules about debating! I used to love Meet the Press but since he's been the moderator it just not as good a show. Yesterday's program was an insult!!!
Hey Rachel , its that old adage "If you keep repeating a lie over and over again , eventually it becomes the truth"... Bachmann knows she is lying through her teeth about republicans wanting women to make their own choices. Its only when it applies to abortion or contraception , or single mothers having to work for a living , that the republican party has a problem allowing women to make their own choices. Other than that they can careless about the choices millions of american women make each day of their lives. Look at MITT ROMNEY , theres a clip of him saying that stay at home mothers need to learn the "DIGNITY" of work !.. But of course that does not apply to his stay at home wife ANN ROMNEY ?.. Yet the "Media Elite" seems unable or unwilling to pick up on that PARADOX ?..
Give me a fcking break !.. OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
I think we can count on the Obama camapaign to pick up that little gem from Romney and make an ad out of it.
Yeah, I saw that on Meet the Press, but I didn't listen I have a hard time listening to Michelle Bachmann. She could be Romney's double, roboticly spouting tired old GOP talking points in her irritating monotone, so I tune her out. I liked Kirsten Gillibrand though. I found her animated and factual, a stark contrast to Bachmann
I also liked Ms Gillibrand but she was entirely too polite when on several occasions Ms Bachmann interrupted or talked right over her. I was hoping she would come right out and say "STFU Michelle until I'm done". Unfortunately, progressives tend toward that politeness out of a desire to let everyone be heard while conservatives live to shout down any opinion that doesn't mirror their own.
And that's why we've been getting our butts kicked for about 30 years. It's time to stop being nice and start playing dirty.
All Bachman really said---as she always does---the same old garbage. She repeats Obamacare at least 10 times, then she talks about her 24 foster children and her 5 biological children, and then states what her job was and what a great mom she is with all of this. That stuff about wanting women to have a say so over their own lives and bodies was a pile of bs because you know darn well she doesn't really think that!!
As far as I can tell, the ACA only restricts the choices that insurance companies can make about whom to cover and what to cover. Insurance companies can no longer refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions and they have to cover birth control pills and they cannot charge women more for coverage than they charge men.
I am on Medicare and I can now choose to have a pap smear and a mamogram without charge. I does seem however that I cannot choose to have my colesterol checked without paying for it.
I was unfortunate enough to actually have seen that in it's entirety. She was allowed to go on, what I can only describe as, a long rant of utter BS. I swear I almost turned the channel because I thought she'd never stop.
To hear her tell it Obama's health care policies would have medical personnel dragging women to clinics and shoving birth control down their throats. I went from mouth agape to grinding my teeth. Reality doesn't live anywhere near that woman.
Yep. They have rejected our previously agreed upon reality and substituted their own new version.
Shame left the building a long time ago with that bunch too.
Please Please please. It is simple. All she is saying is we want you people to have choices too, as long as the decesions you make are ones we agree with. Otherwise you are immoral.
Double speak is perfect for expressing the double standard. What's good for the rich goose is available for the poor gander, but not accessible because of cost.
Rich moms can stay at home with dignity, but poor moms have to work for that dignity???? Rich families can afford family planning from any doctor on the planet, so choice is easy for them. Abortion, paid for out of pocket. The poor have to go to Planned Parenthood, so we better get rid of that. No money, no choice.
So the only conclusion I can come to is that Mitt, Michelle, et al. are simply saying that money makes the difference AGAIN. One set of rules for the rich, another for the poor with different talking points for each.
question: which set is Michelle/Mitt talking about at any given moment?
answer: It's artibrary and unpredictable, but since Michelle/Mitt said it, it is the Republican truth of the day, so just go with it.
question: How can you tell whether M/M is/are lying or just confused about which set is being discussed?
answer: when his/her lips are moving -- both scenarios are true for them simultaneously.
question: are they insane?
answer: good question!
Argh you beat me to it PG! ;-)
Did anyone else catch Bachmann contradicting herself at the 2:00 mark in the video? She says "I want to unite our party, and, so I'm waiting for the party to come together..."
That's like saying "I want to stir some chocolate into this milk, so I'm waiting for someone to set a glass of chocolate milk in front of me."
My brother asked me why the repub women were good looking and the dems were ugly. I told him the dems opted for brains.
They are not all ugly, just not airhead "hotties" like the ladies on the right. I would still rather spend time with an ugly intelligent woman than an airhead hotty but I am a woman and maybe that has something to do with it. Case in point Eleanor Roosevelt, Madeleine Albright, Janet Reno. However I do not consider them ugly. I think they had other priorities besides their looks.
I think anybody with Bachmann's heart is pretty heinous.
And rotting from the inside out.
Same goes for any of those Foxbot bimbos. I don't think any of them are particularly good looking. Rachel is just as attractive ... probably more so in person.
Long blonde hair by itself doesn't make anybody attractive. It's just an accessory. And I can imagine a few of the foxbots looking like Charles Bronson after chipping off all that makeup every night.
I'm wondering why we are discussion women's looks at all! Really?
Exactly! I wondered that myself! And it doesn't make any difference at all----especially when the so called "hotties" (eewww it makes me puke to even write that) are emptyheaded clones of each other and spout anything that pops into their feeble "brains" or whatever is up there as stuffing in that big cavity!
that bachman is nothing but a crazy evil witch...man, she is so clueless...what planet is she from
This is the problem with these pundits. Any good journalist would have ask Bachmann at that point 1. Are you against your party taking away a women right to chose? On conception, right to gay and live in dignity, disagree with house repubs. strike down our child labor laws, strike down violence against women act, ending SNAP program, gutted medicaid program for low-income women, etc. ?
But all we get is pundits sitting in front of the camera like a bump on a log and swear they doing a bang up job. While they take a banner up for a rich women who goes to private party tolling how she got over on a woman who told the truth and all media was to scare to investigate the substance of what Rosen said...
I wish for once that pundits would just do their job and investigate and report just the facts, no matter where they lied... Then probably we won't need fact-checks blogs.
And why didn't he ask her about the Arizona law that just passed ?
(facepalm)
In Michele's world, certain people are expendable, gays first (God said so), liberals (Rush and Reagan say so), progressives (most of us white folk like things the way they are) and the poor (well, they just don't try hard enough, do they?). It makes it so much easier for her to say outrageous things if she's already made up her mind about issues---say like for instance, the shape of the Earth, for example...
This choice has been approved by the Almighty Michele Bachmann and the Holy Republican Party. If you don't like it, than hurry up and die and reduce the surplus population.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
I regularly watch MTP and saw this interview yesterday. In addition to spouting nonsense, Bachmann's behavior was offensive. Her voice is so grating and she constantly speaks over people. Kirsten Gillibrand did not have an opportunity to present her views due to the rudeness of Bachmann's continued interruptions. It was annoying that David Gregory did not do a better job controlling the interview.
2.6% inflation,
March.
March.
upwards slightly by 13,000.
Tanya,
Let me say this, I watch the news shows on Sunday and especially Meet the Press and want to break my tv when David Gregory only questions the Dems motives, but lets Repubs say any crazy thing they want. Geithner would make a point and Gregory would question him hard, but let any comment about Repubs go unquestioned. He does this every week. Geithner stayed calm and collected and kept answering the questions. He definitely lets Bachmann say whatever she wants when she's on the show and gets talked over. Harold Ford tried to stick up for Bachmann and my thought was exactly why you're out of office.
Maybe it's time for democrats to refuse to go on the show until they get a 2nd moderator. A liberal one to counter the conservative one they've already got.