As "This Week in God" settles in on Saturday mornings, the God Machine has plenty to offer again this week.
First up is a look at Bishop Daniel R. Jenky of the Roman Catholic diocese of Peoria, Illinois, who caused quite a stir with a homily last weekend, when he compared President Obama to Hitler. And while that proved to be the part of Jenky's hysterical tirade that generated the most attention, there's a little more to this story that's worth keeping an eye on.
As Brian Tashman reported, Jenky not only likened the president to Hitler and Stalin -- a line that was not appreciated by the Anti-Defamation League -- he went on to compare those who support the administration's policy on contraception access to Judas Iscariot. But don't miss the bishop's conclusion:
"This fall, every practicing Catholic must vote, and must vote their Catholic consciences, or by the following fall our Catholic schools, our Catholic hospitals, our Catholic Newman Centers, all our public ministries -- only excepting our church buildings -- could easily be shut down."
Now, the notion that contraception access might lead the government to shut down Catholic institutions is obviously ridiculous -- someone might want to remind Mr. Jenky that there's a commandment about bearing false witness -- but in context, when the bishop concluded his harangue about his hatred for the president by giving the congregation voting instructions, that raises a separate legal question.
As my friends at Americans United for Separation of Church and State noted, federal tax law prohibits tax-exempt houses of worship from intervening in political campaigns. Indeed, in a complaint to the IRS, the Rev. Barry W. Lynn explained it's "impossible to interpret" Jenky's voting instructions as "anything but a command to vote against Obama." Since the church is at risk of losing its tax-exempt status if it tells parishioners who to vote for, the Hitler comparison in the bishop's partisan rant may end up being the least of his troubles.
Also from the God Machine this week:
* Mitt Romney will speak at Jerry Falwell's Liberty University commencement in a couple of weeks, but not everyone at the evangelical school is pleased about having a Mormon speaker.
* Among "Millennials," young adults under 30 who followed "Generation X," one in four describe themselves as having no religious affiliation. This is the highest of any age demographic in the country.
* And the Vatican is not at all pleased with the largest and most influential group of Catholic nuns, the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, for being too liberal on gender and sexual issues, and promoting "radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith." The nuns said they were "stunned" by the Vatican's scolding.
Leave a Comment:
If the IRS goes after any church for their political speak they will just use it as more evidence of Obama's supposed war on religion.
Churches are inherently political. Tax the churches.
Even so, the IRS should not hesitate to go after this church and this bishop. They will be protected by the legal foundations of their actions, since those foundations were established long before Obama became president.
Declining to implement the rules from fear is as bad as declining to implement the rules from favoritism. The IRS should act, no matter who the president is.
Actually, Christian churches are supposed to be non-political. It's a commandment of Jesus Christ (Mark 12:17; Matthew 22:21). People like this are apostates or heretics, and I think the punishment for apostasy and heresy is stoning to death. (The story about Jesus saving the woman from stoning is apocryphal. Sorry.)
Pay the taxes for one of your neighbors who is in need.
angeleno213 - you appear to be confused.
I think the Catholic Church still has a lot of apologizing to do, they need to stand before the World and ask for God's forgiveness. I suppose there is a lot of cleaning house still needed in all sectors of Religion. One gesture might be to help rid the world of prostitution.
The Church likens Obama to Hitler as a distractive measure. They do this (likening others to Hitler) from time to time, because they wish to distract from the cozy relationship that The One True Church had with Hitler, in the actual real and not metaphorical, world.
Hitler was a Catholic
That was also the reason for not letting the common people read the chapters of the Bible that was removed and buried beneath the Vatican. (I think t'hey were removed during the inquision.) The reason...... to have COMPLETE control of the common people and therefore have complete control of ALL people. It is beggining to show in how many people have thought for themselves and have started leaving the Cathollic Church.
Jesus' words were simple, loving and when practiced the way He actually taught will bring peace and harmony. Why do some people have to complicate the truth? Just let the truth set you free and if you can't do that then Flo from Mel's Diner has a message for you, "Kiss my grits." I guess you can tell I'm a Generation X'er. I have a simple message from Jesus, "Love your neighbor as yourself." Peace out.
Hitler was born Jewish
No, he wasn't. There is an old rumor that one grandfather may have been Jewish (Hitler's father's father, about whom little is definitely known) but that has no particular importance. For one thing, by tradition, "Jewishness" is matrilinial. Which means that you aren't Jewish unless your mother is Jewish (or you convert). So, even if Hitler's paternal grandfather was Jewish, that would not affect Hitler's identity. Also, even more importantly, both of Hitler's parents were nominally Catholic and Hitler was baptized into the Catholic Church when he was an infant. Although Hitler did not profess nor practice Catholicism as an adult (and the Third Reich persecuted Catholics and other Christians to some extent), he remained technically Catholic all his life as he never formally withdrew nor was he ever excommunicated.
Therefore, Hitler was not in any sense Jewish. He may have had a Jewish ancestor, but that is all, and even that is uncertain. Also, it's important to bear in mind that the source of the rumor about Hitler's paternal grandfather was meant to slander Hitler, and that only works if one is antisemitic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kA795YybQQ&feature=related
Catholicism = the stickiest, most adhesive religion in the world
"You could join the Taliban! You'd merely be considered a bad catholic!" LOVE it! I know people who consider themselves "recovering catholics".
Reminds me of the joke about the Jew who gets lost in Northern Ireland, and cornered in an alley. "Are you catholic, or protestant?" the hoodlums demand. "I'm a Jew!" the man protests. "Yes, but are you a catholic Jew, or a protestant Jew?"
MM saying that made me think of it. Cause even Hitler was still regarded as 'just a bad Catholic' lol. Stickiest religion in the world indeed!
geting rid of all the pedophile priests would be a good start for the catholic church...
"The meek shall inherit nothing" -FZ
Too bad this prelate named Jenky
is abusing his flock!
Dressed in a ridiculous smock
And preaching like a smuck!
I give no quarter to men of the cloth who preach of human politics as if God weighs and measures each and every vote of the faithful! -Kevo
Not that this is ever gonna happen, but say the IRS finds (and the courts uphold) that the Bishop's tirade violated the tax-exemption regs. What entity loses the tax exemption? The Bishop? His cathedral? His diocese? Associated Catholic charities? The entire Catholic Church?
Well, it would be the entire RC Church in the US. I think they should shoot a warning shot across their bow. Tell them what could happen if they do not get completely out of Politics. I bet those Bishops would shut up real quick.
And on the eighth day gawd cursed womankind. He'd told Adam and Eve they would die if they ate from the tree of knowledge, a lie (they went on to live for 900 more years). Gad didn't realize that he was actually going to kick them out of the garden of eden and curse womankind (fair and balanced punishment? considering both Adam and Eve ate of the apple). Once having eaten from the tree of knowledge they would then be as smart as the gads and then proceed to eat from the tree of immortality,,, two more incorrect predictions.
From this gibberish we get christianity (and the inquisition) and amazes me that they make any claim to any moral high ground.
And since God is supposed to know everything, from the past to the future, couldn't he figure out that giving humans the choices, that they would eat of that tree? Supposedly he put the curse of labor on women, because of Eve and the apple. Those ancient people would think of anything to be the reason for problems, eh?
Is Jenky pisssed off because Santorem dropped out?
What is the likelihood that the Catholic church bankrolled him to begin with?
The Catholic CHURCH is out of control and it's time for the congregants to rise up. They are losing members already because of their outdated and ridiculous stands on 'what God believes' BS. To be 'true' Christians they need to start living a 'Christian' life. And guys, this ain't it. My family and I have already left. There are plenty of people of faith out there and we don't need the bigots.
Um, churches have been telling their parishioners how to vote for a really long time now...
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." Gandhi
Well Catholics voting against a Democrat in large numbers would be something of a shock. Since Kennedy the Catholic vote has been something like 2/3's for Democrats if not more.
It's kind've interesting to me that the bishop stated to 'vote your conscience' about this issue....because most Catholics vote Democrats since the issue of social justice is more important than the issue of abortion.
Sorry I worded that funny: what I meant was something like 2/3's of Catholics have voted for Democrats since Kennedy. The way I worded it made it sound like I was saying Catholics comprise 2/3's of the Democratic vote and that's not what I meant.
Hey, Mouzer, I'm not sure the source of this stat or the 2/3s vote Democrat. Multiple sources show Catholics voted both for Reagan and GW Bush 2004, close in 2000 against Gore. Clinton pulled a large share of Catholic voters but even he didn't get to the 2/3s range.
It may be true North Eastern Catholics vote more Democrats, but I'm not sure this is true in the Bible belt and certainly not at a 66/33 split Democrat/Repulican as a whole.
I said something like 2/3's vote Democratic. I did not say it was literally a 60/30 split. What this should have indicated to you was that I was roughly estimating based on national trends. I wasn't giving an exact number which is why I never stated I was giving an exact number. Do not put words in my mouth. I absolutely can't stand it when you do this and you've been doing it a lot in recent weeks. I have no idea why. Anyways, usually speaking Democrats win at least half of the total Catholic vote, but it's usually well above 50% and closer to 60% (I.E. roughly 2/3's)
In 2000 Gore won roughly 52% of the Catholic vote
In 2004 Kerry got 47%
In 2008 Obama got 58%
In 1996 Clinton got 56% of the vote
In 1992 he got 47%
http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/How-the-Faithful-Voted.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/11911/protestant-catholic-vote.aspx
And, of course, this is just looking at POTUS elections.
In 2008 and 2006 roughly 55% of Catholics voted Democrat for the House of Representatives.
http://www.pewforum.org/Politics-and-Elections/Religion-in-the-2010-Election-A-Preliminary-Look.aspx
Catholics usually will vote Democratic if they consider social justice to be more important than abortion. If they consider abortion to be more important than social justice they will vote Republican. There has been a trend of less Catholics voting Democratic, but by and large Catholics still make up one of the largest constituencies of the Democratic party. Jews also are more apt to vote Democrat than Republican, but that's a side note. Catholics voting only 30% Democratic or some really low number would be a huge shock given the history of the Catholic vote.
Erm well no- I should really be saying that most Catholics feel that combating poverty is more apt to stop abortion than outlawing abortion. I really should not have framed that as it's an either/or because I'm pretty sure most Catholics would disagree w/ that framing. Rather it's about what means would be more effective and most would side on the idea that combating poverty combats other evils like abortion. Most Catholics do not like the Republican party because of the Republican party's anti-poverty stance. So yes a Catholic bishop telling people to 'vote their conscience' and implying w/in that to not vote Democratic is a shocking statement given the context.
Mouzer, dear, I wasn't putting words in your mouth. You said "2/3s" which is the same as a 66/33 split. I didn't make that up.
The numbers you presented in the Presidential elections average out to 52%. The numbers you state for 2008 and 2006 in the House, if you include the other two years (2004/2010) in the chart average out to a 50.75%.
52% and 50.75% are a far cry from 2/3s no matter whose words you are using.
I'm not trying to be mean or confrontation, just factual. If my numbers or interpretations are wrong please show me. This is your assertion that I was challenging as incorrect:
So, far, I think even your facts are on my side that this statement is grossly incorrect.
Go back and actually read what I said Rob. I said something like 2/3's. If you wanted to correct me and say It's more around 50% not as high as 60% that'd be fine. But you immediately ignore the fact that I openly admit I'm not sure what the number is and accuse me of falsely reporting information. That is direct manipulation of my statement. You did this to me today on the other thread regarding Christian help programs too. Stop it. It's @!$%#ing annoying.
Only if you can't read for context. If you're trying to be factual then don't put words into people's mouths. I love this. You re-quote me where I am saying verbatim that I believe it's something like 60% of the electorate and your response is "nu uh you said it definitively." No I didn't. Read your own goddamn quote.
Additionally Rob I was only using those as an example. You wouldn't take the average of these numbers in the least bit. The point I was making was that Catholics typically vote in the majority and usually it's at least 50% but more often around 60% (roughly 2/3's). We didn't include in this state races or Senate races. Catholics suddenly not voting Democratic in high numbers would be a significant turn of events and would mean something substantial. Le sighs
The above is not "verbatim." This is verbatim - "Since Kennedy the Catholic vote has been something like 2/3's for Democrats if not more."
Yes, you would. If you want to determine the voting percentage of a given group over time, you average. You don't cherry pick a few and claim they represent the voting percentage of the group.
This is what I'm trying to say. The above statement is incorrect. Catholics do NOT vote Democratic in "high numbers" unless you call 50-52% high?
I'm almost sorry I'm no longer a catholic and can't quit in disgust. This really is obnoxious.
Christians still happily violating Jesus's own commandment that there be a wall of separation between church and state. And his actions at the temple, driving out the money changers, showing how to implement that commandment.
Let's gather our whips and run this nutjob out of the temple, just like Jesus would.
Hmmmm. Whips? Kinky!
Supply and Demand Economics. In order to sustain as a Church even as a Country we need people. The Catholic Church doesn't grow with abortion, birth contraceptives and gay marriages. The American economy doesn't grow either with any of these in place. You make sure people who are in favor of these issues are associated with Evil.
well I suppose I'd slightly disagree w/ this. Contraception doesn't stop population growth it just delays and controls it and gay couples who marry are about as likely as straight couples to have children (either to raise children already in existence or to produce their own). But your general statement I believe is correct: the church wants more people to maintain power. Less people = less power. Therefore anything the church perceives to lower their power is automatically written off as evil.
Then the Bishops should be happy with marriage equality, No contraception for those two!! they would actually be the only Catholics in American that is not on birth control. LOL
Paranoid and counter-factual flapdoodle. As we've had abortion and contraception and even marriage equality (in some places) for years if not decades, there is ample evidence that what you say simply is not true. We do have population growth and economic growth while at the same time we have all the things you believe prevent population growth and economic growth. Making statements that are refuted simply by looking around makes you look like a fool. You may as well claim that the sky is orange and the potassium cyanide goes great with chicken.
Flapdoodle - awesome word!
The IRS is not going to do anything to churches that get involved in political activities. It would be too controversial and every church would be screaming if a church were stripped of its tax exempt status. That is the reality of politics. However, the Catholic church is still trying to bury the sex abuse scandals. There is a group that has picketed outside some churches much to their annoyance. It would be more appropriate for people to picket churches for getting involved in politics. That is exactly the attention these churches do not want. A lot of publicity with pickets will keep the churches real busy. This should also be done with any other church or religious organization that is involved in politics.
But doesn't the Catholic Church look on Mormonism as a cult? I don't think they would
like it much if Romney were pres either.
loll, pots and kettles. They're all cults!
Am I supposed to be shocked that these people, who believe themselves to be the presence of God on earth and think they have power over the afterlife, whose entire job description involves telling people how to live their lives, who control a city state and controlled significant chunks of the world in the past,...are hungry for power and willing to use their position to control the outcome of an election?
I'm shocked, shocked I say.
I'm beyond disgust!
Religion my A$$. It is just a very big business, and tax exempt to boot, spreading fairy tales.
"the love of money is the root of all evil" Throughout its long history, the church has used its power and influence to attain wealth, selling dispensation to the rich. There is little difference between the Mafia which donated generously to the church and the church who donates a part of its immense wealth to charity. Where is the charity of spirit? Where is the morality? They edited and censored the book they claim as holy and cherry-pick the morality of the day. The only true morality in the church lies within the congregations who follow their better angels and ignore the tired old dogma and ranting of the hypocritical and sanctimonious keepers of the churches wealth and power.
What Obama should say: "I am glad that the Catholic Church has an opinion about me as the President of the United States. If the Catholic Church want to get involved in Politics, I think that's wonderful. Let me just have the IRS make a few minor adjustments to your non-profit status. And welcome to the dialogue about politics in America, Bishop. Let's try to keep it civil."
It should be pointed out to fundamentalism and evangelical Christians that the Mormon faith does not recognize their God as the one true God. In Joesph Smith's 'Doctrine and Covenants' 132: 19-22 he describes how Mormons who do good works will become a god. You'd think this would be a pretty big deal to them.
We are now assured the official policy of Catholic Church is to sideline the needy in order to pronounce judgement upon everyone and to make everyone follow their religious teachings through U.S. laws.
I see, once again deflect attention from their internal corruption to force upon Americans their laws of their church.
This has to be countered. I agree, there should be picketing… especially in front of this particular church to spotlight this. It should be a story about which everyone is made aware.
I agree about the CC wanting to use US law to enforce its teachings. It is trying to use political muscle (via the bishops' lobbying of Congress) to force every woman in the country to behave according to its beliefs. Ironically, this simply points up its impotence. The CC can't persuade its own members to obey. It simply has no power without the state as enforcer.
If the church is going to enter the political arena (in violation of the law), then it is going to face political opposition. This bishop and his ilk need to stop whining about that.
Women's autonomy is in opposition to Catholic belief? Who knew?
The Bishop's roar sounds like the death rattle of an old and dying institution! One last damnation to pronounce before the Bishop and his dogma expire! The Bishop sees control and power slipping away and will go down throwing a temper tantrum till the very end.
Just as Alan West seems to have no clue what a Communist is, Bishop Jenky seems to have no clue what a "racial secular agenda" would look like. Instead of praying and mentioning God in every speech and going out of his way to compromise with religious institutions, if Obama were being radically secular he would have cancelled all of Bush's "faith-based" initiatives, forced the Catholic church to pay directly for contraception AND abortions, asked the IRS to investigate and punish people like Jenky who illegally mix politics and religion, and pushed legislation to tax churches and remove "in God we trust" from our money. You don't hear we secularists complaining about Obama's "radical religious agenda" although there's a lot more evidence for that than there is for what the right likes to claim.
Or they think the American Public is stupid and doesn't know what those terms mean. Say the word Socialist to some people, and they don't know what it is, but they know its dangerous. Say radical and people don't know what it is, but they know what a Radical Jihadist is, so that word must be bad. They believe Faschist and Socialist are the same thing. So the old saying, "if you say a lie long enough, someone will believe you."
If you're walking down the street and see an old man in a yellow dress, wearing a funny hat, talking about supernatural creatures and saying Obama is like Hitler, would you listen to him?
This is the best comment I've read!!! Thanks so much for the laugh!!!
It's about time someone made this moronic bishop to read a history book. Hitler was a Catholic. Does anyone remember how the Vatican became a country? The "good" Bishop should google the Lanteran Treaty. He would then learn that then Priemiere Mussolini agreed to make Vatican City an independent State. He should also know that Jewish synogues were burned but not on christian church harmed. The Hitler Youth would sing songs about killing Jews, because they ate good Christian children. The man knows little of history and less about his own religion. Atheist and proud of it.
ALMOST correct. Hitler had a jewish mother...which he tried to cover up and erase when he tried to carry out the Final Solution.
Incorrect. As I said further up, there is a rumor that Hitler's paternal grandfather may have been Jewish. It is only a rumor and was intended as slander. There is no historical basis for your contention that the Holocaust was Hitler's way of coming to terms with his (putative) ancestry. I doubt that even Freud after a lazy afternoon of snorting coke would find any reason to make that sort of 'diagnosis'.
This is from a group of guys that dress in make up and dresses, they like kids in a bad way.
Actually, I don't think he's saying the birth control requirement would lead to the government shutting down Catholic institutions, I think he's saying that it would lead to the Church shutting down Catholic institutions. It's still unlikely, but since they have actually shut down their adoption and charity institutions in some cities because they were no longer allowed to discriminate, it's not completely far-fetched.
Damnit Redshift! You beat me to it! This is what I was going to say. I think he's saying that the church would be forced to shut down as a result of their 'moral' qualm w/ being required to provide contraception to their employees and/or students.
Of course they could simply stop hiring workers/accepting students who aren't nuns/priests/or other representatives of their faith OR they could simply stop providing health insurance to their employees and students altogether.
But of course that would require the church to exercise personal responsibility. If they stop hiring everyone then they will- rightly- be blamed as being discriminatory. If they stop providing health insurance then they will- rightly- be passed over for a better employer. And that might put Catholic institutions in the situation where they have to exercise accountability for their actions. The horror! The horror!
Also the ban on contraception for Catholics only ensures that there will be Catholics aplenty forever. They know that good Catholics have large families (I know families that make the Duggars look like a small family). The Church does not care if they are starving, wearing shoes with holes in the soles, and eat potatoes for supper every night. They're just hoping one of that 20 kids would be a Priest, and one of the girls would be a Nun. And one way to take care of women in history was to send them to the Church.
I never could figure out why the Catholic Priest frowns on a baby crying in Mass. I always tell the Mothers, "They're the ones that want lots of children, so they can listen to them cry. It won't hurt them a bit.
Willow, you are a couple of generations out of date. Catholic women in general use contraception in about the same rate as non-Catholic women. The concept of the 15-child Catholic family is historical, not contemporary. And I am skeptical about your statement that you know families that make the Duggars look like a small family. We know the name Duggar because they are unique in the United States.
Larry the Duggar's are hardly unique. I know of 2 families where there are more than 15 children. I am in a metropolitan area too. These were city-folk.