Associated Press
Romney in 1965, seen on the far right, protesting in support of the Vietnam War.
At this point in American politics, whether a presidential candidate avoided service in Vietnam is probably an issue that has lost its electoral salience. While the controversy undercut Bill Clinton -- and to a lesser extent, George W. Bush -- its relevance in national campaigns seems to have come and gone.
So, when the AP ran a 1,200-word piece yesterday on Romney's Vietnam-era deferments, it's tempting to think the story just doesn't matter. As the argument goes, his unwillingness to serve, though perhaps embarrassing, doesn't seem to tell us anything important now.
But these assumptions aren't quite right. The story matters in large part because this appears to be yet another area in which Romney hasn't been honest with the public.
Though an early supporter of the Vietnam War, Romney avoided military service at the height of the fighting after high school by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France, a classification for Mormon missionaries that the church at the time feared was being overused. The country was cutting troop levels by the time he became eligible for the draft, and his lottery number was not called. [...]
[B]ecause Romney, now 65, was of draft age during Vietnam, his military background -- or, rather, his lack of one -- is facing new scrutiny as he courts veterans and makes his case to the nation to be commander in chief.
This scrutiny is turning up some underappreciated details, which raise some legitimate questions. Indeed, there's clear evidence to suggest Romney hasn't told the truth about his actions during the war.
In 1965, as an undergraduate at Stanford, Romney not only supported the war in Vietnam, he participated in pro-war protests. That same year, he sought and received his first deferment.
A year later, Romney received a longer-than-usual 4-D deferment, which allowed him to do Mormon missionary work in France, despite the fact that other "young Mormon men elsewhere were denied that same status," and the Mormon Church, which backed the war, "limited the number of church missionaries allowed to defer their military service using the religious exemption."
By 1969, Romney had completed his work in France, but sought and received new deferments.
Many years later, in 1994, Romney said, "It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam, but nor did I take any actions to remove myself from the pool of young men who were eligible for the draft." That wasn't true -- he took several steps to remove himself from the eligibility pool.
By 2007, Romney, a presidential candidate, argued. "I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there, and in some ways it was frustrating not to feel like I was there as part of the troops that were fighting in Vietnam."
But that's not what he said in 1994, and if "longed" to serve in the war he protested to support, Romney probably shouldn't have gone so far out of his way to make sure he didn't have to go.
Again, I can appreciate why this all seems like ancient history. But if Romney has misled voters about his decision to avoid military service during a war -- and there's ample reason to believe he has -- that's clearly a legitimate campaign issue. For that matter, if Romney benefited from preferential treatment, unavailable to those who weren't born into a wealthy and politically influential family, that matters, too.
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Democrats should use it. Democrats will not use it.
That is the difference . No swift boating for us ... why we might win an election .
Always a knife at the Gunfight
Democrats can't use it. Does anyone want to remind people how Bill Clinton got out of the draft via rich and powerful people? How about Obama's rise to prominence via rich and powerful people?
If none of that is a concern though, be my guest and go for it.
Shooter -- I don't think Bill Clinton and Barack Obama knew a lot of rich and powerful people in their early lives -- unlike . . . say . . . Mitt Romney. And, even if they did, the rich and powerful are Romney's base, so what could you possibly have against them?
Shooter ... Of course Democrats could use this. And they should. Whether they will is another story.
Let's call a spade a spade: Romney is a coward. He's shown it from his youth, and still puts it on display every day. It's not the draft deferments by themselves--lots of people did that. It's that he participated in demonstrations supporting the draft, saying that others should fight and die, but not him. It's the bullying incident with the kid at the prep school. It's his unwillingness to confront and denounce ugly statements made by those within his own party. It's guiding his sons around the military, while encouraging the country to participate in unnecessary military actions. A true chicken hawk in every respect--with the emphasis on CHICKEN.
(Comparing him to Obama or Clinton would be silly; Obama came of draft age when there was no longer a draft and we weren't involved in a war, while Romney opted out during the height of hostilities--a war that he openly supported. And at least Clinton wasn't a hypocrite about the war.)
Those who believe that our national leader should be a true cringing, yellow-bellied coward should support Romney for president.
Cringing, yellow-bellied, chicken hawk cowards for Romney!
Start of a new movement...
Cringing, yellow-bellied, chicken hawk cowards for Romney can't you trun this into a twitter name. i would follow.
"this appears to be yet another area in which Romney hasn't been honest with the public."
The short list is where he has been honest with the American people.
Wait ...I'm looking....
.... Hang on ,I'll get back to you
Bingo, it's about his not being able to tell the truth.
Back in those days many wanted to avoid the draft and stay in school or in Mitt case do his Mission. I'm not going to hold that against him.
The issue is that he is flip flopping on this. He can't just tell the TRUTH.
"It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam..."
Romney much like Shrub (& the GOP) that were given deferments are cowards. Their unwillingness to go to war, yet the ease with which as Commander in Chief they are more than willing to send other people's children "off to unnecessary wars" is indicative of their own emptiness, arrogance and ignorance" when it comes to America and how to run (vs. ruin) this nation.
Mittens ability to lie with such ease also speaks volumes to his character, his quest for power, and his inability to understand that running this nation is not the same thing as running a vulture capital enterprise! As the phrase goes - it's pray for Americans not prey on Americans!
They may have been cowards, but the branches of the military still support republicans in record numbers....lol...lol...which I find quite hilarious.
Even the quote from 2007 shows his cowardice. Just look at the phrases he uses:
"In many respects..." but not those that would endanger his life.
"Be representing..." but not on a battlefield.
"In some ways..." but in other ways it was not frustrating because he was safe.
"Feel like..." but not actually experience it.
Coddled little rich boy, saved by his daddy's wealth. Coward then, and coward now.
What he really meant to say was, "good thing Mormons didn't ordain black Mormon men back then, they would have stolen good deferments from us WHITE Superior Mormons."
White Mormons, ordained, missionary service, defered from draft.
Black Mormons, not ordained, prohibited from missionary servce, to the rice paddies you go.
Thank Mitt for your Vietnam service; he sent you there.
Bush. Romney. Bush. Romney. Bush. Romney.
Tax dodging, draft dodging country club boys who like to send other folks to war.
Oh my God! You mean Mitt Romney told a flat-out, incontestable, easily provable lie in the course of trying to obtain public office and paid absolutely no price for it because our mainstream media culture thinks holding politicians accountable for telling flat-out, incontestable, easily provable lies is its job, nor, indeed, that doing so has anything to do with the reason its business was given explicit constitutional sanction and protection by the Founders? I'm shocked, shocked to discover this undoubtedly anomalous failure by our media titans.
Romney will tell us he had "other priorities."
Hold on Mitt; that one has already been taken by Dick Cheney.
Myth doesn't care about using other people's verbal or written material, especially not Chainsneeded. He and Chainsneeded are brothers from two different mothers. Myth was hatched from lying eggs, and Chainsneeded was hatched from lying,liar eggs. Their mothers were first cousin of the Lying Liars family of Texas. They are second generation Liars.
Don't forget Cheney! He also received 4 or 5 deferments and got rich with companies making billions out of war.
he was a chicken---- who got deferments instead of serving.
I can see what he did during Vietnam quite clearly; no confusion for me.
Right. So let's go over Obama's military service.
....
OK That about covers it.
That's right. You may not have noticed, but Obama didn't turn 18 until a few years after Vietnam was over, and was about 30 by the time of Desert Storm. Not really his fault he didn't serve in a war.
But as Commander in Cheif of Todays Armed forces has Directed them like a chess master to eliminate most of the Leadership of Alqueda Which the Coward Bush "wasn't Concerned with..."
So...fail on your part....
Wow this is so convincing. I am now ready to accept 8% unemployment as normal and allow our current idiot-in-chief to continue to screw up our country's economy because, even though he never served a day in the US military, Obama is cool, and Mitt Romney's failure to serve is the big issue.
BTW
Wasn't MSNBC originally set up as a news agency? or was it always an extension of the Obama reelection campaign?
Exactly how is Obama "continuing to screw up our country's economy"? Give us some examples, dougie.
While you're at it, give us just one example of Faux Snooze being "fair and balanced."
8%US unemployment versus Europe's 11% beats a sharp stick in the eye. The policies proposed by Romney will not alleviatethe problem of a world wide financial recession brought on by the souring of what were once assets. This is not a business cycle dip but a full out solvency crisis.
Dougtheavenger... Congratulations, you are officially a right wing talking point regurgitation stooge.
I think it was the right thing to do to end college deferments. I was eligible for the draft in '71 but we had switched to a lottery system and my number never came up. I would have served and fought and died, I was not a peace protester just felt like I had other things to do. I will be 60 this year and it is strange that now I wished I had gone in. I went to college and could have entered as an officer. The college I went to even had an ROTC program that would have paid for graduate school. Weird the things we regret and now I am anti-war.
Blow it out your @ss f*ckwad! Anyone who claims to regret not participating in a bogus war is either a fool or a liar.
I assure you that my free life time health care that I receive as a result of Viet Nam is not worth the price.
I assure you that the regret of having developed an attitude of Life has no value is not mentally healthy.
I assure you that having taken the lives of fellow human beings in an unnecessary and bogus war is not what anyone should want to live with.
Blow it out your @ss!
Gosh! No need to be so upset. I am not telling you what to believe or feel or behave. Just commenting how when you get older you might look at your life choices differently, peace.
Nothing to see here, move along...
This is just more vintage Romney. He changes his history all the time and hopes nobody will notice. He misrepresents himself and his positions and hopes nobody will notice. He FLAT OUT LIES and hopes nobody will notice. As Rachel has put it so admirably, the media NEEDS to call him on his flip flopping and lies. They have to do it every day and every time he spews more crap out of his mouth. And It has to be picked up in the ever-present sound bites because those are all people tend to use and remember when evaluating the candidates.
Yet another Republican Chicken Hawk.
Romney should be called out for lying about this, but he won't be.
Democrats should use this and his other lies against him, but they won't.
Young Willard
In the year of our Lord, 1967, a time in which young, able-bodied American males were being conscripted to fight for Uncle Sam in the faraway jungles of Southeast Asia, nineteen year-old Willard Mitt Romney received a deferment from military service so that he could conduct missionary work in an even more hostile environment. Republicans would certainly have called this “cowardice” or “draft dodging” had young Willard been a Democrat, but Willard’s father was the governor of Michigan and a top contender for the 1968 Republican presidential nomination, and so it came to pass that his Bloomfield Hills draft board deemed he was needed elsewhere for far more important work than mere military service for his country. And so it was that young Willard, armed only with his “magic underwear,” bravely accepted the toughest of all possible missionary assignments: to bear witness among that most sinful of peoples, the despicable French. I ask you, who had the tougher duty, the grunt chasing Charley through the jungles of Vietnam with his M-16, or young Willard, going door-to-door in the very capital of debauchery, Paris, professing the validity of Joseph Smith’s revelations? For two and a half long years of the most excruciating hardship duty imaginable, young Willard exhorted the flagrant sinners of the City of Light to give up their wine and their brandy, to give up their coffee, their filthy Gauloises cigarettes, even to give up their mistresses and come to the true church of the lost Golden Tablets. So, I ask you, who endured the greatest hardship duty, the grunts in the jungles of Vietnam, or young Willard in Paris, the very capital of sin? Upon returning to his homeland, young Willard attended college at that bastion of academic excellence, Brigham Young, and the Bloomfield Hills draft board conferred an academic deferment on top of the years he had so selflessly sacrificed among the heathens. Unfortunately, President Richard Nixon held a draft lottery in December, 1969, and Willard had the bad luck to pull an extremely high number, 300, making him ineligible for compulsory military service. This unfortunate turn of events concerned young Willard to such an extent that he decried those who opposed the war as unAmerican for objecting to do their duty, as he would gladly have done if only he had been fortunate enough to have been called. The man is a brave, self-sacrificing hero and should never be accused of being a coward or a draft dodger.
Ick... I just threw up a little in my mouth....
Artfully written Mr Morrison! Well done!
Steve got one thing right: It is irrelevant to me. But it may be relevant to veterans. It's not an issue the re-election campaign should take on, though because the reality is that draft dodging, at a base level, is no worse than choosing not to join the military voluntarily. Whether the reasons for his deferral request were truthful or not won't matter to anyone who hasn't taken offense to all other areas where he has been untruthful.
31 months as a missionary in France. I'm not sure about the 1960s, but 31 months is a significantly extended stay as a missionary today (18-24 months is the standard duration of a young adult mission these days). I'm guessing here, but there were likely some very significant strings pulled in the LDS Mission Presidency to get his stay in France extended that long, especially with missionary deferments being in restricted supply so that the Church wasn't seen as undermining the Vietnam war efforts.
Mitt will say anything to get votes, and so far he has shown nothing to give him credibility to be a competent commander-in-chief. Obama, on the other hand, has effectively used the military to destroy Al Qaeda from the top level (bin Laden) down. The Iraq war, which was the main culprit of the federal deficit, is now headed for the history books as "Bush's War." Obama was not a draft dodger, as there was no longer a draft at the time he would have been eligible to be drafted. Let's not forget that General Colin Powell endorsed Obama in 2008, who was running against a decorated Vietnam veteran, to lead the country and the military. Romney's military policy will be to delegate the decisions to the same group of thugs from the former war-mongering Bush-Cheney regime. Americans will needlessly sacrifice lives to increase defense contractor profits.
As a serving member of the US military, I am disgusted by the ubiquitous attitude of many Americans and our press who make excuses for draft dodgers/cowards.
You’re missing the point. Draft dodgers are cowards. They are un-American, not patriotic and they should be thoroughly criticized whenever they ask the public to vote for them into positions of power that require that they make tough decisions where character matters.
If you are rich or ‘connected’ in a way that can get you out of serving your country (or repeatedly find reasons not to serve) when it requires others, less powerful, like you to serve, you are still a draft dodger and draft dodgers are cowards.
You don’t get to be patriotic when you had your chance to responsibly respond to your nation’s call. If you are not willing to serve or pay a price for dodging the draft, you are a selfish coward.
On a side note, I actually give conscientious objectors a pass and do not consider them cowards or draft dodgers because they are willing to suffer the consequences for not fighting, something they believe in so strongly that they are willing to go to jail and ‘serve’ time in prison (this is another issue and another discussion).
It’s not OK for people who were draft-eligible to avoid the draft. Additionally, it shouldn’t be held against someone for not serving in the military. If you’ve never served in the military, I don’t hold that against you, nor should anyone else. Not to mention, some serve in other non-military capacities for their country that can be just as noble and isn’t lost on me. As long as you’re not using the non-military service to avoid military service, you should live with a clear conscience.
Romney, Cheney, Limbaugh, Clinton, Giuliani, Bush, even Ted Nugent, and others should be criticized for being cowards. If they want to admit they were cowards and they want to atone for their cowardice, pay a penance of sorts, that kind of courage is somewhat redeeming.
But if they want to distract from their lack of strength of character and unpatriotic decisions and avoid admitting it, then I have no problem chastising them and holding them accountable.
And if they have the gall to attack those who actually served, even if it wasn’t to your silly, hypocritical standards (I’m looking at you Bush and Cheney), you’re knocked down further, if that’s possible.
Romney was actually for the war he wouldn’t fight in. That is a level of arrogance, hypocrisy and cowardice that I haven’t seen since Cheney ran for office. And it now LYING ABOUT IT which takes him to a new level of arrogance, hypocrisy, and cowardice made worse by the enablers (our press who don't question or focus on the wrong issues or the people who vote for these people who lack character) who make excuses for bad, arrogant, selfish, unpatriotic, flawed decisions.
Word!
Great post, the real question everything.
You need to take G.W. Bush out of your draft dodger list. He was a qualified fighter pilot, while serving in the states in a non-Active unit, and while he did spend time working on a family friend's political campaign - Bush could have been called up to Active status in a matter of weeks and been in Vietnam. While a dunce - he did where a uniform in time of war.
@ TheRealQuestionEverything: Thanks for articulating the issue at the heart of this particular issue--character. And for saying it from an authentic perspective of someone serving in the military.
I am the daughter of a pilot who served in Vietnam. I grew up with quite distinct understandings of US military policy from my father, but his willingness to sacrifice so much for what he believed in was something of which I was never in doubt. I respect him for those ethics and I chose a life of other ways of service, in part as a response for that respect. You stand with him in my respect for that commitment.
And your willingness to speak truth to the character of those in power who take the way of hidden cowardice inculcates another side to my respect. Even in this climate of disintegrating public discourse, my father would not speak out against those who not only refused to serve, but would purposefully viscerate those who did for political gain.
I guess what I'm saying is that I find your post to be as an important "defense" of democracy and its underpinnings as your life of service. And that is saying something.
As a former Mormon who was a rabid Mormon most of my life, I have no problem with Romney's being a mormon - I can name a dozen mormons I'd like to see run for president. However, I have a big problem with the fact that he LIES LIES LIES about Mormonism, as he does with everything. He loves to say the church gave a "limited number" of "clergy" deferments during Vietnam and that only 2 per congregation were allowed. Well, I remember many boys from our ward (congregation) being out at once. That last year the ones who were big partiers and got very low draft lottery numbers repented, got their mission calls and were gone in the space of about a month. So I looked it up and apparently that was technically the case, they limited it to 2 times the number of wards or branches they had. But since many of the wards or branches didn't have any young men serving missions, there were enough deferments for anyone who wanted to go. However, those serving missions where they learned foreign languages got 6 months to a year longer, i.e. Mitt. Yes, they used it to avoid the war and the church was very complicit in that.
And Mitt enjoyed Ann's company on mission while she was spending a semester in France at a university. Life is rough for a missionary, girlfriend, daddy visiting, no wonder his baptism rate as low.
T0 bad Obama just cant run on his record.
Actually I'd say he's done rather well, in spite of the Party of No.
Well thats your opinion, however I see it as Obama not being a leader. The President is the top dog he has to be able to meet the repuks and copromise. He should listen to Bill Clinton, Bill said that we are still in a recession and we should keep the Busch tax cuts. Now that came from a former President who had a surplus when he left. Old slick Willie might be a horn dog but he was a good leader.
If you really want to know the truth about Mormonism, go to www.exmormon.org. and just browse. Now the Mormon church will tell you, "If you were going to buy a Ford would you go to the Chevy dealer? Go to the Mormon.org web site and WE will tell you the truth." Ha! First of all, If I'm going to buy a Ford, I want to talk to the people who owned that car and I want to know the truth about how it functions, what problems it has or what they loved about it. I don't want to go to the Ford Salesman. Exmormon.org (NOT to be confused with exmormon.com) is chalk full of former active Mormons, people born in the covenant, people who have been through temple ceremonies many times, returned missionaries, people who served in high leadership positions, and people who were duped into joining because so much of the truth was withheld. They are good upstanding people just trying to support each other and deal with the family and social issues involved in leaving a cult (and you'll find out why it IS a cult), and people trying to deal with the bad choices they made in life for themselves and their families because they believed the Mormon cult spin, whitewashed history, and demand for obedience.
Wow Lynn, thanks for the plug for my regular cabstand... I'll stand by for extra trollwatch duty in return; they're liable to get nasty with charges of religious bigotry.
I just put this one up over there; it's a little bit more about Mitt's religion and the "beliefs" that are firing up many of his followers. BTW, I had lunch with cartoonist Bagley's brother last week; he's a distinguished historian in his own right and a close friend...
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/54248389-82/bagley-cartoon-facebook-lake.html.csp
Ford Dealers always insisted their Edsel was a great, technological, innovative car.
What appears possible is that money has a chilling effect on those who would otherwise pursue this story. One billion dollars will be spent by Republicans and primarily on media. Paid silence.
When I hear you speak, Rachael, sometimes I wonder if you know how brave you are.