Just to recap, ENDA, The Employment Non-Discrimination Act would ban hiring discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity. Cue Right Wing freakout!
Yesterday, on the Crosstalk radio show, Mat Staver chairman of the Liberty Counsel went on a full scale hyperbo-spasm. Take away? Equality for gay people equals Death! To wit (with our annotations):
"Years ago I said what the ultimate goal of this homosexual agenda1 was not this sexual orientation where you are wired to a particular way2 but ultimately the abolition of gender.3 It's hard for us to even comprehend that,4 how can you abolish the concept or the construct of gender, male and female,5 it's so objective, it's so obvious, how can you do that?6
But that's exactly what they want to do:7 Anything that you see is just fictitious.8 It's only what's in your mind.9 If you abolish the concept of gender you ultimately undermine morality,10 you ultimately have no morality and norms for men and women or sexual behavior.11 As Alfred Kinsey ultimately wanted to do,12 he wanted to undermine morality in marriage.13 Why?14 So he could undermine the very concept of God himself.15"
1. Wait, wait, wait…there's an AGENDA?!? Come on people, is it so hard to hit "forward" on an e-mail once in a while?
2. Wired, huh? I'm looking at you, Tin Man.
3. Yeeeesssss, because without gender, gay people would be free to……WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???!!
4. Yes, this IS hard to comprehend. SO hard. You have no idea how hard.
5. Who is YOU in this sentence? Mit Staver? God? Adam Lambert?
6. Exactly! As you read this, keep asking yourself, how can you do that… how can you do that?
7. THEY again! It's like everything funnels back into THEY…the dots are connecting… wheels are turning…
8. Funny, I'm sensing something fictitious right now…
9. Remember: "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." - Shakespeare
10. So, if you abolish this thing I just said couldn't be abolished, THIS impossible thing will happen…
11. And voila: every straight person in the world will immediately swan dive off Point Gay.
12. Because Kinsey and Mat Staver were close friends and he revealed to Mat Staver, and only Mat Staver, what his true intentions were.
13. Curse you, empirical data based on the accurate long term observation of human behavior!
14. Finally we agree: Why? Why? Why?
15. Let's see if I'm getting this: by NOT discriminating against gay people trying to get a job, humanity is undermining the all-merciful, all-powerful, all-knowing master of the universe. Thanks for clearing that up.
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I do wonder if the Obama campaign has decided to keep poking them to get the freakout headlines -- and even the Fox News coverage for the patently unhinged.
On walking through the company cafeteria a few minutes ago, some Fox talking heads were shocked -- shocked! I tell you! -- that rudeness has invaded American politics.
It will be interesting to see how many people try to pass off what Staver said as a "point of view" or "differing opinion" and/or insist, by invoking the First Amendment, that Staver should suffer no negative consequences for what he said.
As far divergent opinions gay people are as bad as Jews. I know since I am a Jew and my cousin and his partner are both gay jews. His partner used to be a Republican, he has seen the error of his ways ( I have compared Log Cabin Republicans to Jews for Hitler) As for that fearmongering dickhead shove a 2x4 up his ass until it comes out his nose
"If you abolish the concept of gender you ultimately undermine morality."
Said to the thunderous applause of every male priest convicted of crimes against children.
It's despicable, but that's why they win. Corruption is why they win. Manipulation is why they win. Your quote of Staver's comments reflects all these things. They carefully use rhetoric, lies, and hyperbole to instill anger in their base, and they don't stop until the rolling boil runs over -and one of "theirs" shoots a doctor in a church or bombs a medical facility, -or shoots a congresswoman in the head. But that's why they win. They aren't afraid to play with a loaded gun.
Are we going to fight this battle with words, logic, and reason? That has not been sufficient. We need more. We need anger, and I don't see it here. IF we don't learn to fight fire with fire, they are going to bury us. I don't mean that metaphorically, I mean it literally.
It's time that their side worried about what the fringe of our party might be capable of doing. It's time that they experienced first-hand what they have done to us. It's time that they learned what the other side of intimidation actually feels like. Fear for yourself and the safety of your family and friends. Concern over what we say in the media and how that might produce the same kind of violence they have made political use of in the past.
Let me tell you, -they're not going to lose any sleep at night thinking we might rebutt their crazy, hateful rhetoric and violent acts with a logical and reasonable argument. No, they are going to lose sleep at night after some of them start losing front teeth for what they have said and done. If our leader can't harvest some of that kind of payback, then we don't have a leader and we're doomed. You can't compromise with an enemy that takes no prisoners. Obama has tried to do that in the past and we have paid dearly for it. Our families have paid for it. We have paid with our jobs and our security. Others paid with loss of dignity and shame. A few paid with blood.
You are absolutely right. However, the Personal Virtue brigade will probably be horrified and start haranguing you about what a bad, bad person you supposedly are.
I'M MAD AS HELL AND AM NOT GOING TO SIT BY QUIETLY AND SEE MY COUNTRY DESTROYED BY LYING HATE-MONGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!
And can come up with perfectly reasonable, data-driven, fact-based, objective arguments to defend my point of view.
@EntropyRules: You don't win wars by being virtuous. You win wars by being more effective than the other guy. Our opposition is quite skilled and very effective at using fear and intimidation to manipulate and control both the population and particularly the congress. Our representatives are going to have to be MORE AFRAID OF US than they are the republican right-wing fringe. Until that happens, the other side will continue to have more representation. It has nothing to do with right or wrong, it has to do with fear of consequences. THAT is the battle-site chosen by the opposition, and we must meet them there.
@Kiev, maybe that's our hope. The original item was written so poorly that it made my head spin. The question is whether vacuous hyperbole will be sufficient to scare people, or if a brief, better-written piece will calm them down.
@hoosierprof: If you've paid attention to the last 5 congressional election cycles, then you know the answer to that question has already been established. Fear works. Intimidation works. Lies work. Smears work. Chainsaw politics works. Divide and conquer works. These things beat logic, facts, and reason across the board. We are fighting the political equivalent of The Spanish Inquisition. I wish it weren't so, but I have to be effective in the reality we have, not the reality we wish we had. We have to use their tactics when those tactics are effective.
Us queers sure get people fired up. What is it, taking a shower, feeding the kids, getting them ready for school, working, having conversation over dinner, what is it that makes these folks go goofy and embrace inanity? *whispers* Sex.
I see little bubbles over their heads, imagining us in bed with someone of the same gender. Maybe jealousy enters into the equation, how dare a woman master cunnilingus and engage in scissoring and fisting and use strap ons... Oh oh, now their morality police division will cite the vile candidness on that Maddow person's blog, decrepit evidence of why America falls into moral decline.
When I was a child (57 now) we lived in a society where one almost felt guilty for experiencing an orgasm. Make peace in confession, young woman, plead for mercy for your exploration of your body. How dare you feel pleasure, so wrong!
Seems some miss a good old-fashioned guilt trip.
That is the most amazingly convoluted quote that I have seen for quite a while. It gave me a headache.
Mr. Staver... Mat, can I call you Mat? What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
But seriously, now the "never been more appropriate" Billy Madison quote is out of the way, I must ask one simple question:
What world are people like this living in? It sure as Hell isn't the same one as the rest of us. I feel so sorry for them. It must be terrible waking up every morning and seeing the world in the way that they do.
But that doesn't excuse Mat from publicly spouting off nonsense that would make Glenn Beck's chalkboard tell him to tone it down a notch. And the worst part is, this man will face NO repercussions for his public display of nonsense and bigotry. Absolutely none.
Because similar to what Chris Hayes said about legislative obstructionism on Monday's show, this kind of thing is just written into the way we all consider modern Republicans. It's like "that's totally insane" doesn't even need to be said any more, it's just automatically implied. Especially when one of them gets talking about "the gay".
While my head spins trying to make any sense at all out of those two paragraphs, I also have to admire the genius of it. The Fox-fed people will listen to that random assortment of words and phrases, and start nodding their heads, then waving their arms -- "Yes, yes, it's so clear to me now. It's so objective, it's so obvious (that's what he said it was, and I don't want to seem like an idiot if I don't understand it). He used facts and cited sources and used lots of important-sounding words that I should probably understand, but I don't. But he used those words, which means he's smart, so he must be right. The gays are trying to destroy society and enslave us all!!! (That's what he said, right? Or something like that?)"
The poor little guy got lost in his closet.
On the other hand, these folks really should be given more credit for being "job creators"!
I mean, someone has to start-up and then hire employees for their Torches & Pitchforks stores, right?
*sarcasm*
Yeah, the old Homosexual Agenda again. Was there a mail out of this Agenda? I've never actually seen one. And I've got gay and lesbian friends that have (unfortunately) never received a copy of the "Agenda" either. They're just obliviously living their lives like normal people...
I've got our homosexual agenda right here:
1. brats
2. buns
3. agave nectar
4. non-chlorine bleach
5. orange juice
6. ...
Oh, wait. That's the gay grocery list. Damn.
Going Billy Madison one better, courtesy of "Stuart" by The Dead Milkmen:
(So) A few days after that, I open up the mail and there's a pamphlet in there, from Pueblo, Colorado. And it's addressed to Bill Jr. And it's entitled, "Do you know what the queers are doing to our soil?"
Now Stuart, if you look at the soil around any large U.S. city with a big underground homosexual population - Des Moines, Iowa, perfect example. Look at the soil around Des Moines, Stuart. You can't build on it, you can't grow anything in it. The government says it's due to poor farming. But I know what's really going on, Stuart. I know it's the queers. They're in it with the aliens. They're building landing strips for gay Martians. I swear to God.
You know what Stuart, I like you. You're not like the other people, here in the trailer park.
/satire
Some might argue that ENDA is unnecessary - consider searching for "Kansas House passes bill allowing religious people to discriminate against homosexuals" March 2012.
If Federal law does not specify, the states feel free to at least attempt to legislate in areas such as - language used by state employees in private e-mails and private conversations when off duty - miscarriages subject to criminal prosecution - rights of homosexuals ...
If the First Amendment can be redefined by the Supreme Court as only applying to the Federal Government - then states can legislate freedom of religion, speech, and freedom of the press as state granted "privileges" rather than Constitutional "rights". It can be done by the state in minutes - with a simple majority.
Pi=3.00 anyone?
Adam_Selene
If the Supreme Court declares that the Constitution only applies to the Federal government, what's to stop states from bringing back slavery or having only white land owners vote, or states banning the owning of guns (a right wing favorite)?
Duluthian12,
Slavery and Voting - they would require new amendments with ratification by 3/4 ths of the states - that of course could never happen ... hummm ... perhaps I am being a bit hasty in that assumption.
Section 3 of Article VI and the First Amendment are areas that the court could rule to apply only to the Federal government and not as restrictions for the states.
Slavery revisited - states could make being poor and out of work against the law and sentence offenders to forced labor - pay them with state "script" then charge them for housing and force them to make any purchases at the "company store". This could be set up so that they could never get out of debt to the state. Having little poor kids clean the toilets and mop the floors at their schools has potential too - why should they get a free lunch.
Guns - I still don't get it - for the ultra far right to accomplish their goals - they need an unarmed population. Perhaps when the time comes, they will just print out the membership list for the NRA and go get them.
Adam_Selene
I am continually amazed by the power of the homosexual. Years ago it was implied that Katrina was used to attack New Orleans because Ellen Degeneres was born there. Now I find that homosexuals actually have the power to not only abolish gender, but even undermine the concept of God. Now THAT'S power. Hmmm, I've always been straight, but that kind of power is enticing--will they still throw in a toaster oven?
Staver thinks God is a concept that can be undermined??????????? I love it when "they" let idiots speak.
Is it immoral to hope/pray/wish that 10 billion people will burn in hell for an eternity for guessing wrong at the "faith based religion" game?
Only thru Jebus will you get to heavan...
Just so folks don't get me wrong,,, I would like to take 50 or so words to prove there is an afterlife,,,. Just as the eternal and the infinite have to be "contained" in this reality, so too does "possibility". If there is a one percent of one percent of one percent chance of something existing (i.e. the "afterlife") then it does exist. Not unlike having a hundred billion galaxies each with 200 billion stars = life exists(ed) on other worlds. Parrallel universes, anti-matter universes, static universes, digital,,, etc. etc. what's possible is a biggy. The NDErs give us an unsollicted view of the afterlife.
speaking of Pueblo, Colorado,,, I went down to regional planning and told them they should make Lake Avenue into a Route 66 themed street. When people (tourists) think of Route 66 or "art deco" there is no destination that comes to mind, cept maybe the Chrsler Building... Even though Lake Avenue was the old I 85 it could still be advertised as Colorado's Route 66... The old trailer parks would then be an asset and with 10 groovy art deco buildings there already (and move some more in), Hollywood would start using it for period movies,,,,,. The NHRA car show we have every June would compliment the idea.
I also told regional that they should rebuild "historically correctly" the 7 (count them) 7 train depots Pueblo supported in it's heyday. We should buy Golden's train museum, and Jay Leno's "Baker" steam auto. to compliment our really nice air museum..
Colorado is only slightly on fire,,, please visit...
"So he could undermine the very concept of God himself." Always great fun in watching "good Christians" depower their god when convenient. Suddenly puny humans can undermine this supposedly omni-max deity on a whim. Not much of a god then, is it?
What ought to be scaring the bejesus out of us is just how many of these brainwashed buggers there are out there engaged in coordinated assaults on the nation's children through our Public Schools.
But didn't Dog (I am dyslexic) create the Gays? I get so confused sometimes.
Am I the only one who sees the correlation between this kind of malevolence and the current relgiosity resurgence in this country? (Historians call it religious "awakening" but that implies that it's something good. As I understand it, this would be the third awakening/resurgence.)
Religious institutions retain their dominant status in society by sanctifying prevailing social values and norms, including those that are hateful and prejudicial . Once those values and are sanctified, a challenge to any one of them is a challenge to the religious institution that sanctified it. So, in that narrow tactical sense, Staver is right; when you undermine social norms that say heterosexual marriage is the only proper outlet for our sexual drives, you undermine the religious institutions that sanctified them.
Any world view that relies on faith (suspension of rational thought) will react violently/hatefully/irrationally when anyone subjects its dogma to rational thought and inquiry. It's a fight-or-flight reaction, because dogma can't survive rational thought and inquiry.
Consider this:
"When a nation adopts a democratic social state and communities show republican inclinations, it becomes increasingly dangerous for religion to ally itself with authority."
"Unbelievers in Europe attack Christians more as political than as religious enemies; they hate the faith as the opinion of a party much more than as a mistaken belief, and they reject the clergy less because they are the representatives of God than because they are the friends of authority."
Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America, 1830 "Causes Tending to Maintain a Democratic Republic"
Tocqueville also had some interesting observations on the separation of church and state in the US and how that wall of separation actually contributed to the strength of religion in this country. Some religious groups are now trying to break down that wall and blend religion with politics - brings to mind the idea of mixing vanilla ice cream with manure.
OMG, you talked about ENDA in an actual post on Maddowblog! Be still my heart! Now if we could just get you to talk about it ON THE SHOW...
Oh and just for the record, seriously, thank you. Working class LGBT Americans across our country really do appreciate it and we do need your voices on this. DADT is repealed, DOMA repeal is going nowhere in Congress anytime soon, and LGBT families who's jobs, homes, and lives are still at risk from the lack of workplace protections in 34 states really do need your help in making people aware of this issue which is so critically important in our lives, especially in this economy.
We've never been closer to getting this bill passed than we are now, but we need our most popular progressive media figures and shows speaking out on this. As anyone who followed your coverage of DADT repeal knows well, it really does make a difference.
Again, thanks.
Oh just one interesting tidbit: Earlier this afternoon, I recorded an interview with Freedom To Work's Tico Almeida for webcast on my show tonight (find me on Facebook or Google Plus for show info...and don't worry, we're on 7-9 eastern, I'd never go opposite this show), and he told me something absolutely stunning:
Among the Republicans voting in favor of ENDA last time around (yes, there are some, more than you'd expect in fact) was Congressman Paul Ryan...yes, THAT Paul Ryan! This bill is rapidly gaining traction in Congress, even with those you'd never expect would vote for it in a million years.
Imagine what we could accomplish if shows like this one were talking about it regularly...just imagine.