First up from the God Machine this week is a new controversy surrounding Catholic League president Bill Donohue, who has a penchant for making controversial remarks, but who "infuriated prominent Jewish leaders with a private email last week to Philadelphia Rabbi Arthur Waskow." BuzzFeed's Rosie Gray reported this week:
Waskow, a progressive rabbi involved in the Jewish Renewal movement, had criticized the Vatican and the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops in a Huffington Post op-ed for "attacking the religious freedom of millions of American women and the religious freedom of American nuns" over contraception.
Donohue responded with a note to Waskow that launched an email exchange that ended with a warning, forwarded to BuzzFeed by a source close to the rabbi, that "Jews had better not make enemies of their Catholic friends since they have so few of them" (Donohue writes that this is a saying of Ed Koch, the former mayor of New York). Donohue also includes a postscript saying, "I do not have a long nose."
Donahue also raised a recent child abuse scandal in Orthodox Jewish communities. "You need to do something about this epidemic right now," he told Waskow, who is not Orthodox, suggesting that Jews follow the Catholic Church's reforms in dealing with clerical abuse.
For the record, Koch told Gray he never made the comments Donohue attributed to him.
Prominent leaders in the Jewish community were taken aback by Donohue's angry missives, including Rabbi David Saperstein of the Religious Action Center, who called Donohue's email "disheartening."
Under the circumstances, that seems like a generous adjective. As Jeffrey Goldberg joked, Donohue may not realize "it's not 1492 and we're not in Spain."
Also from the God Machine this week:
* Glenn Beck this week continued to make his transition into a televangelist, arguing that he has personally "seen the finger of God." Beck added that if Americans fail to do what Beck thinks we should do, God will "withdraw his protection" over the country.
* New research from Gallup shows that only a third of Americans realize that President Obama is a Christian. Gallup also found that for the first time, a narrow majority of Americans said they'd consider voting for an atheist candidate for president (thanks to reader R.B. for the tip).
* In Philadelphia yesterday, in an important conviction, Msgr. William Lynn, a former archbishop's aide, was found guilty of "endangering children, becoming the first senior official of the Roman Catholic Church in the United States to be convicted of covering up child sexual abuses by priests under his supervision."
* The Southern Baptist Convention had a busy week, electing their first African-American president, adopting a new alternative name, and passing a resolution rejecting the idea that marriage equality is a civil rights issue (thanks to reader R.P. for the tip).
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I suspect that Beck's "finger of God" was attached to his proctologist.
I don't know, I can well imagine God giving Beck the finger.
Dang, you guys are good... I was thinking maybe he needed a fresh stint at a rehab...
"Finger of God" was an incorrect translation of the original "beckistani". A more widely accepted translation is "Magic Marker in the Hand of God". Beck is still trying to translate what was written on the wall - "Mene, Mene, Tekel, Parsin, Punk".
Why, why, why are we giving Glenn Beck the time of day, much less a huge picture on the home page?
Please, TRMS, do not feed the BIGGEST TROLL EVER.
This one is for your Mr. Beckerhead ! It is a George Carlin quote :
" When you’re born you get a ticket to the freak show. When you’re born in America, you get a front-row seat. "
Althought my brother sometimes acts like he is god, that was not God's finger that Glen Beck saw! It was my brother's middle finger.
Beck as prophet of God surely must be a sign of the Apocalypse.
That would be the fickle finger of fate, Glenn, indicationg that you're pretty much toast.
Glenn Beck has now joined the list I have started of people who say the God will punish America unless we repent. The list already had Rev. Jeremiah Wright and the author Jonathan Cahn.
Beck says it in a different way - "God will "withdraw his protection" over the country" but the thinking is the same.
[Reminds me of a billboard I saw once "Don't make me come down there!!" - God]
Here is one BIG problem I have with these statements:
Each one is saying that God is saying "Behave or ELSE". But each has his own beliefs about what exactly it means to behave.
Here's what I posted yesterday on this topic:
I recently heard about a book "The Harbinger" by Jonathan Cahn - highly recommended by a conservative evangelical co-worker (we avoid talking either politics or religion).
Short summary - looking at the Old Testament prophet Isaiah and the signs (harbingers) that God was displeased with Israel and would punish Israel unless the people repented and changed their ways - God would d*mn - destroy - Israel. The author points to current events - such as 9/11 - as signs that the same is going to happen to the US.
Within a few days of learning about this book, Melissa Harris-Perry had a segment about Rev. Jeremiah Wright that included the full context of his now-famous inflammatory quote "God d*mn America". The full context is that he was doing the same thing as the Harbinger author - taking the signs of the Prophet Isaiah - applying to current events and came to exactly the same conclusion. America has sinned and God will therefore punish "d*mn" America.
The ONLY difference between the two are the specific "sins" that have been committed.
I personally don't believe it is valid to apply Old Testament prophecy and extrapolate to current events. So I don't agree with either of them.
You can agree or disagree with Jonathan Cahn or Rev. Wright as to the relative severity of the "sins" they point to.
But that does not make either one of them somehow radical subversives.
By the way - I am a life-long member of the United Church of Christ. Pres. Obama belonged to a UCC church in Chicago. I consider myself a Christian.
Thanks for your perspective and clarity.
This is sort of a Christian Nationalist view of America. It goes like this - the founding fathers really meant this to be a Christian nation governed by Christians, for Christians with Biblical law and Church discipline taking presidence over any secular law - with other religions tolerated as long as they kept their place. In effect the United States is the New Israel - and Christians are the "new" Jews. If this is your reasoning, then it is easy to make the Old Testament comparisons.
I personally think we are the "New Roman Empire" and not the New Israel - but I am not a prophet so I'm not sure. It is always possible that Beck is right and God is punishing us for our sins - a few hundred years of holding a people in slavery, the attempted genocide of the original inhabitants, Christian churches supporting slavery, sterilization of undesirables ... yep we may be in for a long over due reaming such as the world has never seen.
Oh - looks like there are 667 sins mentioned in the Bible - guess what percentage have to do with homosexuality?
It's condemned in the Bible, but I don't know if worded as sin. I don't think anything attributed to Christ is in the New Testament. I just know I've experienced 22 years of #667.
if i showed my finger to beck, would he start doing whatever i told him to do?
If you wore a big enough diamond ring.
LoL!!! I if showed my finger to Beck in the forrest, "would there still be the sound of one hand clapping?"
This confirms my theory that Beck, Limbaugh, Allen West, Hannity, Trump and many others are on the payroll of Colbert and Stewart. Those two guys will do anything to create subject matter for their TV shows. Have they no shame?
:>)
Why are The Koch brothers trying to get the Catholics and the Jewish community fighting again? Is this another dip back into the hell in which we came. Sorry, people I'm not looking back this time, I'm heading for the gate.
Angel: Angel (reeeeally)? Nope...Neither has any, nor need they have such in a nation where people are supposed to be listening and paying attention (and you can bet your pajamas we are) while the GOP takes us down the steep and slippery slope into their un-Christian godliness and righteousness. Thank the Lord they provide stark relief of humor from the sad truth.
New poll puts conservatives in a pickle, do they reignite the Jeremiah Wright controversy accidentally tipping off their dumber brethren that President Obama attended a Christian church led by an intolerant preacher, or do they keep it hush hush and let another Lie About Obama grow into indisputable fact.
What's wrong with that, I check out new churches all the time, I'm not quite sure how to get into The Jewish Temple, though. I'll just tell them the truth, I am a female spy or I'm on a mission from Gad.
Angel, you could contact a local temple and ask. You'll find them very friendly and patient. Their services are interesting and informative.
Try it.
I accompanied my friend's family to Temple one time during Channukah. It was very interesting and the latkes afterward were out of this world!
I used to try new churches as a youth fairly frequently. I find it fascinating. I was a bit surprised the the Pentecostal as it was very animated. I don't like singing much (not good at it), but I am not into entering a building to attend services much any more. Perhaps nowadays it would be easier to find acceptance than before, though.
@bcinaz
In your post, you referred to "a Christian church led by an intolerant preacher".
The "intolerant" message preached by Rev. Jeremiah Wright is intolerance of injustice.
From Wikipedia: [I added bold italics to one key phrase]
The church's [Trinity United Church of Christ] mission statement is based upon systematized Black liberation theology that started with the works of James Hal Cone.
Black liberation theology is a theological perspective found in some Christian churches in the United States. It is an instance of the liberation theology which originated from Catholic Theologians in the 1950's. Liberation theology observes that Jesus Christ was a religious leader seeking greater justice for the oppressed and occupied people of Israel and views his teachings as both an inspiration and a model for others to seek freedom from injustice. Some credit liberation theology for the emergence of a more socially conscious Catholic Church during the 1962 Vatican II conference and for influencing Latin American peasant and grass-roots movements throughout the 60's 70's and 80's.
Black liberation theology seeks to liberate people of color from multiple forms of political, social, economic, and religious subjugation and views Christian theology as a theology of liberation -- "a rational study of the being of God in the world in light of the existential situation of an oppressed community, relating the forces of liberation to the essence of the Gospel, which is Jesus Christ," writes James Hal Cone.
Maybe. There are online resources to help look, and by total coincidence I've just seen this article on HuffPo. So many links, so little time.
There's a UN Security Council resolution against my singing.
I only sing in the car alone. That way I don't bother anybody else. Once in awhile I sing to my friends' baby (I am one of her tias) who gives me funny looks, then laughs.
Nice links!
I forgot to mention, I am watching S.F. Pride Parade, seeing a Ugandan Episcopalian Bishop being interviewed in the parade, Catholic, Lutheran, etc. etc. etc.
http://blogs.kqed.org/newsfix/2011/06/24/gene-robinson-at-gay-pride/
http://www.jewishfed.org/event/celebrate-lgbt-pride-weekend
Jesus said that Satan is the "father of lies." He also said that you would know his followers "by their works." Those who do the exact opposite of Christ's teachings are followers of Satan. The teachings are really pretty simple. Those who build their careers on lies intended to pit people against each other, who harm the poor, ridicule compassion, those who worship wealth and bow down to the wealthy, are all doing Satan's work. The Bible says that God will pull down the self-righteous, humble the arrogant. So then, maybe an exorcism is needed in Beckistan.
If Satan is the father of lies, then Mitt Romney must be a close relative. He's certainly producing them at an alarming rate.
in additional "twig" news
Thursday the Justice Department announced that they would be charging 24-year-old Javier Alan Correa with “obstructing by threat of force the free exercise of religious beliefs” and “using an instrument of interstate commerce to communicate a threat.”
Correa allegedly called the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro and, after cursing Muslims, said he was going to bomb the building on September 11.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120621/NEWS01/306210068/Murfreesboro-mosque-threat-leads-federal-indictment-Texas-man?nclick_check=1
So, this is another illusory exercise of free religious beliefs. Everyone has and always will be free to keep their religious beliefs. They should practice this though, if you have nothing nice to say, please refrain. Nobody can enslave you with their own religious thoughts. vica-versa. Now, spirituality, that's another story, this negative energy brought on by the Right needs to be extinguished. The only way to accomplish this is to replace every negative with a positive, it knocks out about 10 negatives everytime. God absolutely insists that we all have fun and enjoy, Today is Saturday, go out and play, finish your chores first, yes, you can watch cartoons and Meet the Press if you like. I got dibs on the funny pages.(politics)
more "twig" news with a doj angle
ap 6/22
Authorities in a pair of polygamous Utah-Arizona border towns have supported a campaign of intimidation against the unfaithful, denying them housing and municipal services and allowing members of the dominant religious sect to destroy their crops and property, the U.S. Justice Department said in a lawsuit.
The federal civil rights case was filed Thursday against the towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., where most residents are members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, run by the group's jailed leader Warren Jeffs.
According to the lawsuit filed in federal court in Arizona, city leaders and law enforcement in the two towns have for decades served at Jeffs' pleasure while ignoring the constitutional rights of residents who aren't FLDS followers.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/justice-dept-sues-arizona-utah-polygamous-towns-16625718#.T-R-OVJSS2l
Why would anyone not one of these morons be stupid enough to live around them? That amount of ignorance is bound to be close to a "critical mass" of stupid, and is bound to be catching.
I understand that, on the 'acceptable' Mormon church side, several former employees are suing Bain Capital because it discriminated against them for NOT being Mormons. They were fired and replaced with all Mormons.
Wonder how many Mormons Romney would stuff the federal government with?
yes and I'm sure these very same 'religious' people think gay marriage is an abomination...
You have to ask yourself, is this really a fight for the Presidency or a fight for Religion? Is Romney a Fascist? I wouldn't doubt it. He never talks about his religious beliefs, that's not normal to not even mention a little something that refers to God. But, he says nothing, he is doing what he did during the race to his nomination, he is staying as quiet as he can, hoping that The President will trip himself up, but, guess what, I think it's backfiring on him this time. You can't be a wallflower and run for President at the same time, somethings' wrong with this picture. There is a time to be a quiet man and there is a time to fight in what you believe in, there is no fight in Rmoney, just a smug look of It's mine, it's all mine.
JJFFMM ... Remember how many Regent University and Patrick Henry College graduates Bush appointed to government positions? I'm sure Romney will find ways to exceed this number.
@angel#77
back in may, willard gave a religious speech at falwell's liberty u, but didn't discuss his mormonism
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romney-delivers-deeply-spiritual-address-but-doesnt-mention-mormonism-at-liberty-university/2012/05/12/gIQAR4zYKU_story.html
Say, who is this 'God' person, and why does he have so many people claiming to speak for him?
Speak for Yourself, Sir, and not in tongues, either!
He doesn't speak in tongues, silly, I do.
Angel: Don't you find it intriquing (to say the very least) that the folks who spout Bible quotes, decide who's a sinner and who's not, and what God wants and what God doesn't want...It seems as if it's no accident or coincidence that God just happens to agree with everything they have to say...laughable, isn't it?
Yes, they are the masters of finding loopholes ,even in the Bible. They like to take quotes from the Old Testament and reference to them, but most of the quotes were statements made by another historical figure and not God. God doesn't really say much in the Bible, The prophets state what thay think god has told them. You can open up any page and say "Look, it says this." but, if you don't read the context from which it came or the entire event leading up to that point than the quote is mute.Like I said before interpreting the Bible is tricky sometimes and has lead to many a war. One should be careful when doing this.And to flagarantly throw quotes around is only self-serving for the Right zealots.
more fed, more "twig'"..on a lighter note: prophet seeking profit
Ronald Weinland was found guilty of federal tax evasion Wednesday. He had funneled funds from his Ohio-based church into secret Swiss accounts and started carrying gold and gems with him after predicting in 2006 that the world would end in 2008, Forbes reports.
Weinland apparently believed that the Swiss banking system would survive the apocalypse and second coming of Jesus Christ better than the American one would.
Weinland's lawyers argued that he only put the money in the Swiss accounts because he believed the world was in its "final days," but the prophet himself stumbled under cross-examination as he attempted to explain why, exactly, he deducted expenses like a stay at the Venetian Las Vegas and tickets to the Blue Man Group, reports the Kentucky Enquirer.
http://www.newser.com/story/148673/doomsday-prophet-guilty-of-tax-evasion.html
Nothing wrong with a little vacation, before you go to hell.
Would Jesus wear a Rolex on His television show?
"Gallup also found that for the first time, a narrow majority of Americans said they'd consider voting for an atheist candidate for president."
on the other hand, currently there are seven states where atheists can't hold public office
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/959292/disqus?page=entire
Only seven, not to freak you out or anything.Ohio......I hear the drumming.
those words have an extra resonance, angel#77. i was at kent state on may 4th 1970.
You know you're headed down the wrong path when God himself gives you the finger.
He's given me a lot of fingers.
Well if he keeps giving you the fingers perhaps you should be with Beck'n crew!
Donohue wants to bring back the right of teenage Irish thugs to terrorize their Jewish schoolmates during Easter week, like they got to do without reprisal back in the good old 1950s all these Righties see as the "golden age."
I don't find it at all surprising that only 1/3 of Americans know the president is a Christian. Hell, 40% of these bible-believing morons are sure the sun revolves around the earth.
Americans, dumbest people on earth since the citizenry of ancient Imperial Rome.
Didn't you believe what they wrote in your History books? Why are only American History books valid. When there are a lot of Ancient History Books that are being totally disregarded. Now, that's burying one's head in the sand, much like a crab.
Developing "God" story...
http://blog.al.com/wire/2012/06/more_alabama_public_television.html
The Post and Courier of Charleston,S.C. reports on an inmate at lieber correctional facility being swindled by the prison cleric of 175 thousand dollars. Seems the inmate is blind and requested the cleric help him make out a will. The cleric instead made out a power of attorney and took the cash. The cleric could not be reached for comment--he quit after getting the cash.
The price of salvation gets steeper?(by the way this same facility lost a case over their idiotic rules that basically forbid books and magazines , except biblical propaganda.)
I realize Donohue's job is self-appointed defender of whatever the Catholic Church does, but how severely do you have to lack self-awareness to hold up the Church as an example of how to deal with a child sex abuse scandal?
I'm glad I'm not the only one to pull an "are you serious?" moment at hearing a Catholic taking a shot at someone about child sexual abuse.
Then again I'm not surprised. Denying basic facts of reality is kind of their "thing".
Donohue is nothing but a sanctimonious, hypocritical bully! He hates everyone who is not HIM. He and his group do not 'speak' for the Church. In times past before the Council of Bishops went off the rails, he was merely laughed at. Now however, they are agreeing much more than not. I'm sure the 'nuns on the bus' are rolling their eyes.
This world really can't afford to have those kinds of conversations. If they are to be thought of as Religious leaders that kind of childish debate is tolerated. But, when you enter the spiritual world that is not allowed. Only Peace resides in the union of The Holy Spirit. So, those 2 and the likes of them should stop and smell the roses, who knows how long they will be here.
"liked" in error. Note to self: stop reading spam. especially from those who believe in ghosts and the tooth fairy and have the audacity to call themselves angel. go ahead and imagine dead people spying on you but leave the rest of us alone.
The Angel is my son. I am no angel quite the contrary. And I never believed in the tooth fairy, in fact I used to stick white corn under my pillow in an effort to cheat the fairy. When I speak to those who have passed it is only to receive reassurance and knowledge and to once again feel their presence. When you live in an insane world, and you become uncomfortable with that, you become a seeker. My hope is that you and others like you will start asking Why? We're all in this together, at least we can agree to diasagree.
@misssooshi
The post by Angel#77 is NOT spam.
This person seems to have a very strong faith and expresses opinions that reflect that faith.
You are certainly free to agree or disagree.
Thanks Rachel for both reports. Comments appreciated. Interesting read but most depressing. What will it take for everyone to just live in peace? As an American Catholic residing in the Philly area, I apologize for all the crude remarks made by Mr. Donohue regarding my revered Jewish friends. Further, I apologize for every word I have heard uttered by Mr Donohue. The world would be a better place if he could only learn to reflect before he speaks...even better: the art of prayer in silence... it's called meditation.
(Not sure where to post, so I'll do it here). Love Rachel, but she seemed way more concerned with scoring one-ups-manship points with the crowd last night on Bill Maher's show than simply debating the facts and allowing the crowd to then respond accordingly. Instead of shying away from the question of "What Republicans do you agree with?", she could have responded as Maher did and simply say, "I'd gladly agree with some if they had any positions to agree with." She could point to examples ... "I used to agree with John McCain on Cap and Trade ... but he changed his position, not me." "I used to agree with Romney on being Pro-Choice and his healthcare plan in Mass ... but he changed, I did not." "The Individual Mandate in the healthcare bill being debated and decided on by the Supreme Court was an original Republican idea, and I agree with it ... but they changed their position, I did not." Etc. Additionally, when Rachel was being accused of being ultra-partisan for only partisan sake, she could have pointed to the many conservative Dem positions she disagrees with ... or many of the Obama positions, for that matter. Instead, Rachel, unfortunately, seemed to trap herself in some sort of game of getting the crowd to side with her. But if she would have simply answered the questions (in her own way, without allowing the other panelist to dictate how she responds), then the crowd would have backed her anyway. It was a bit disappointing to watch, because I know Rachel is much more intelligent than this ... but she seemed trapped in her own game.
Defender,
What you are missing is that the extreme right is trying to "define" Rachel as an "ultra liberal" because she IS becoming influential, and quite frankly, I believe she DOES have to fight that!!!! I watched part of what Gillespie was doing, and he was trying to force all views opposite to his onto her and "define" her as someone she is not! Simply stating her case would have only allowed him to say "SEE, I told you so!" She had to stop him!
This is not pleasant, but unfortunately, if you constantly cave to bullies, everyone will see you as a "victim", and Rachel is no victim!!!
I could have told you Rachel, the world was never meant for someone as beautiful as you. Maybe she feels the world isn't ready for some opinions yet. Some matters require a more delicate approach or certain settings dictate a persona that is a little different. It's as if you are going to visit your Gramma and tell her all your opinions on current events, not an easy task.
"This is not pleasant, but unfortunately, if you constantly cave to bullies, everyone will see you as a "victim", and Rachel is no victim!!!" This is my point exactly. Do you see my profile name? I have no use for "caving" to bullies, nor was I asking Rachel to do so ... just the opposite. Refuting the other panelist's hollow point's and making him look silly in doing so, is the exact opposite of "caving". Rachel could have defended herself much better, as I have seen her do many times before. If you did not see the Bill Maher show, then with due respect, you should not be commenting on what you did not hear or see.
Defender, I think Gillespie thought of himself as a victim and lashing out at whomever he deemed liberal or not an "independent, like him".
Putting words in peoples' mouths must be stopped, she stopped him. I do the same thing here, but when they start insulting me, I "dismiss them", then some call me names. trying to elicit a negative derailment type of response. I do not play that game and I am no coward and it is not caving, it is making better use of my time. I've argued with guys like him and )others that will not listen) before. They know it all, unless they listen and ask a question, giving the person respect to articulate their opinion.
They are delusional if they think they "won". I agree that bullying must not be tolerated, but I thought she did not tolerate it, from what I saw.
O ye of little faith. Geesus's disciples asked him why they couldn't do miracles too. So he took a dump on them. Telling them if only they had the faith of a mustard seed they would be able to move mountains. The disciples had been hanging with geesus for what, five or six years at that point? Would not a mustard seed of faith represent 1% belief and 99% skepticism? And with that 1% faith you can move a mountain.. Nobody, including geesus has ever moved a mountain.
Wouldn't that be nice though, if someone had. Moved a mountain, moved some stars to form a cross, turned a fig tree into some kind of permanent unchipable gold, some kind of miracle that would withstand the ages. That would give some credence to your BS.(bibble studies).
But you can't have that kind of miracle because all these old testyment religions are "faith" based. Only through faith blah blah blah, get to heaven. The bibble, so as to be less laughable, should have explained another "higher" level of belief for those who have gone beyond mere faith to "certain knowledge", i.g. Gad shows you his finger, you move a mountain, your broken leg is healed, etc.
When Gleck Ben tells of all the miracles he's been privy too, the proper response is "show us one NOW". Bill Maher flubbs this in his athiest movie when talking to some twit who too, had experienced "hundreds of miracles". We are on camera, potentialy before millions of "want to believers",,, please show us one of these all too comon miracles of which you BS,,,, NOW.
Read Wikipedia's article on hypnosis and that will explain 99% of miracles, blibblical and current.
Fortunately, and amazingly without advocacy, our public schools' philosophical policies are largely secular humanist. This and science are the bulwarks we have against idiot religions "outreach" programs to flock the stupid.
Let's ask Mitt,,,, if he would have the 10 comandments posted in our schools and courts. The first of which "thou shall not have any gods before me" would then need to be explained in the context of "freedom of religion".
Remember, on the eighth day, gad cursed women. (see previous post).
How stupid is it to prophesize something that will never happen and thereby invalidating your religion? At some point 99% of us will get a 666 tatoo on our wrists/foreheads??? which will now never happen because we've been forwarned,, giggle giggle.
Can we elevate to fact that if it takes over 2,000 words to explain your religion, it is therefore invalid. The bibble comes in at 750,000.
Beck and Godfather Pizza owner, Cain would make a great spokeman. Becky-Becky Stan Stan. Herman Cain can sing a song on the ad where can we find a guy named Stan to team up with Beck?
No, he wouldn't allow a partner, as he and God are so tight, there's no room for Stan.
This isn't even close to what these folks taught me religion was about. Guess why it's no longer of interest. These folks need to go into a room and quietly go over their own documentation of what is correct attitude and conduct. Then they need to reform or go away.