Last week, after the White House asserted executive privilege on some Justice Department documents related to the so-called "Fast and Furious" controversy, Republican leaders quickly pushed the argument that it meant the White House was directly involved in the operation. Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.) even argued that Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has secret documents that prove it.
Yesterday, Issa, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, ruined the GOP's fun and made Chambliss look rather foolish -- there's no evidence, he said, connecting the White House to the Fast and Furious operation.
But while Issa was willing to reject one silly meme yesterday, he was also willing to embrace another.
The California Republican appeared on three Sunday shows, but ABC's Jake Tapper was the only to ask whether Issa actually believes the conspiracy theory that Fast and Furious was an elaborate scheme cooked up to create a political demand for gun control laws. For those who can't watch clips online, the congressman said:
"First of all, this was so flawed that you can't believe they expected to actually get criminal prosecutions as a result of it. So the level of flaw, if that's a word, here is huge. But here's the real answer as to gun control. We have e-mail from people involved in this that are talking about using what they're finding here to support the -- basically assault weapons ban or greater reporting. So chicken or egg? We don't know which came first; we probably never will."
In other words, yes, Issa thinks the conspiracy theory is legit. He clearly tempered his thoughts on the matter -- at the NRA convention in April, Issa was far more explicit -- but the fact remains that the chairman of the House Oversight Committee actually takes this wild-eyed nonsense seriously.
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"... support the -- basically assault weapons ban or greater reporting. So chicken or egg? We don't know which came first; we probably never will."
OH GOOD GRIEF!!! (sorry to yell - but ----!!!!!!)
It looks like common sense to me.
Summary:
So what are the obvious steps that we - the US - can take.
*gun control - smart controls that addresses the problem and yet does not interfere
with the Second Amendment
As I suggested , someone should visit some of those border town gun dealers and ask " Hows Biz?" Sell a lot of guns to Mexicans?
I suspect they will be reluctant to discuss that demographic of their sales.
To your point:
The cynic (realist?) in me wants to know the answer to these questions:
Who profits from the drug trade?
Who profits from the arms trade?
Follow the money!
Perhaps now you can see why the selling of guns to Mexican drug dealers will continue:
1.) It's good business
2.) It's very profitable.
3.) It's supported by the good, caring people of the NRA.
4.) Border security is designed as a one-way deal. Everything going south to Mexico is good for reasons 1-3 above.
Include prisons, the DEA, and gun makers in the profit pipeline!
Net worth : Issa, Darrell House R CA $448,125,017
Another 1% er with too much time on his hands .
Hey Darrell , the really rich guys these days are devoting their time to philanthropy and noble causes instead of trying to help your buddies make even more money and subvert democracy.
You are still a grand theft auto punk and always will be .
Bush started this "Fast and Furious" tactic. No one seems to mention this, or even be aware of it. Why so?
It's fair to argue Obama should have terminated it forthwith, but it was not his project - he merely let it continue. The people who should be appearing before Issa's committee to explain and justify their thinking should be members of the Bush administration. Has this happened, and if not why not?
not only have they not, but Issa has blocked any of them appearing, saying "They're not relevant." Well, when you are on a witch hunt and fishing expedition and you have the subpoena power, you get unfortunately to determine what is relevant, it seems.
Yesterday Issa said bringing in Mulkasey etal was not what the hearings were ABOUT. But HOLDER could have brought them up!!! And he DIDN'T. Honest to God. If the GOP isn't blaming the Obama administration for something they DID, they are blaming them for things they DIDN'T do...but they MIGHT have.
The last time that Congress tried to issue a subpoena to Murkasy - he claimed "Executive Privilege" and refused to come before the House, Darrell isn't having egg on his face for a repeat!
Actually, this is all backwards. If this article from 2009 is solid, then the whole idea wan't to track drug guys, it was to get the goods on arms dealers.
Why would anyone think guns would connect any one person to any one crime. That isn't feasible. But... if one has the gun from a particular crime, one has the goods on the dealer. It's the only way you can police 6600 different dealers
That means that the ATF or equivalent was enabling mass murder as a tracking event for gun origin. And yes I get that this would have happened on Bush's watch.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/26/us/26borders.html?pagewanted=all
@Shooter
Thank you for the link - very interesting.
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The gun laws in the United States allow the sale of multiple military-style rifles to American citizens without reporting the sales to the government, and the Mexicans search relatively few cars and trucks going south across their border.
What is more, the sheer volume of licensed dealers — more than 6,600 along the border alone, many of them operating out of their houses — makes policing them a tall order. Currently the A.T.F. has about 200 agents assigned to the task.
The Mexican authorities say they seized 20,000 weapons from drug gangs in 2008, the majority bought in the United States.
The authorities in the United States say they do not know how many firearms are transported across the border each year, in part because the federal government does not track gun sales and traces only weapons used in crimes. But A.T.F. officials estimate 90 percent of the weapons recovered in Mexico come from dealers north of the border.
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What are we doing about this?
What is the funding for the A.T.F? Increased to address this problem?
You said, "... the ATF or equivalent was enabling mass murder." If there was no F&F or the Bush program, would the number of murder have been reduced? Would the bad guys have just used weapons from another source? Would Agent Terry still have died?
How many other Border Agents have been killed and no F&F weapons were involved?
The solution to all of these problems, including guns being sold to Mexico could be alleviated saving our country BILLIONS in the process in the "War on Drugs" if we would just LEGALIZE the use of Marijuana!
Why won't you GOP? Gun Lobbyists? Who says that crime doesn't pay?
You broke the code .
There is money to be made on "Wars" and as such they will continue .
Those Teabaggin conservatives who want less government would certainly miss those "War" dollars
The defense contractors are already threatening to lay off hundreds of thousands if there are any defense spending cuts .
Ladies and gentleman , may I present to you the US economy Defense (and homeland security et al) house of cards.
Wars and stuff = Very important use of tax dollars
Everything else = not so much
Don't forget the For-Profit Prison industry. They back the legislators state and federal that legislate ridiculous drug laws and unrealistic prison terms.
Ya, Ted,
What you're suggesting would be akin to a car that runs on water or finding a cure for cancer (or any number of other illnesses). That will never happen. There are too many people making too much money on these deals. The incentive to cure any problem is clouded when they have the cash cow right in hand.
I am no fan of Issa but I think what he said on the Sunday shows was not irrational. I don't think the Atty General was complicit in any way, but the Fast and Furious program was a stupid Keystone Cops idea. Better to get the facts out and move on.
I saw Cong. Issa on one of the morning shows yesterday (Sunday). My question is, "How does a man like that get elected?"
money.
Heard the latest FOX Fantsayland corn spear a sea? Obama is using fast & Furious to crush the 2nd amendment. Fox's expert? A lone blogger, militia type in Alabama, named Michael Vanderboegh. HE is the one who has tied this can to the tail of the GOP/Tea party and let them run amok on Capital Hill. Fox is fast & furiously MAD main stream media isn't buying into their "SECRET SCOOP".
Rachel did an entire segment on this last week. Perhaps that's where you heard about it?
Yes, she did. She made a lot of sense, too. Issa has been out for something like this since day one. Now, if this issue of Holder would've come out last year, it would make sense, but, now, it's obvious what it's all about.
Stephen Colbert referred to Issa as "Slitheyrern Housemaster" Perfect!
Wow, I am really impressed with, so far (12 comments and replies) the comments here. A real discussion with no snarky, name calling, ignorant, meaningless rhetoric. Guess the trolls are still asleep. It was refreshing to be able to read these comments without them being littered with trolling trash talk. :-)
What I find amazing about all of this conspiracy talk is the lack of acknowledgment of what is happening in our cities with guns. If the murder rate in American cities can't be a spur for gun control, how could guns in Mexico convince people to limit guns?
I have heard more than one conservative commentator say "Watergate" and, I think, the hopes of a big scandal is what drives Issa.
Yes it makes you wonder where they're getting their ideas, they obviously have none of their own. Usually when someone makes up a scandal they are trying to divert the attention away from themselves.
@ Rebecca
Gun Control , Whats it going to take, a Congressperson being gunned down by a nut with a high capacity semi automatic pistol....?
Oh wait..
Never mind
I'm surprised Issa is getting away with exposing the NRA. I would think that the NRA would be E-mailing him in order to stop him from pursuing this avenue. Well, one thing he sure has opened up a can of worms concerning the NRA. Maybe somebody within the organization is being a whistle blower in an effort to caution others.
There is nothing serious about Darrel Issa. The guy's a one dimensional impedibot schmuck who's sole purpose in life, (and the only thing he's good at), is to be a pain in the ass. Rationality and logic are the most insignificant of considerations for Issa while maintaining an unending flow of stupidity is paramount. His consistency in that regard is impeccable.
Exactly. Remember who Issa is: a car thief who falsely claimed he had received commendations from President Nixon (when in fact he had not even been involved with the actions he claimed because those actions had never happened and what he had been doing at the time had yielded an "unsatisfactory" rating from his superiors) who made his many many millions vending public annoyance car alarms (which are in aggregate ineffective at deterring crime). He bought his way into Congress in a hyper-conservative district and has a safe seat so long as he appears to be rabidly anti-"librul".
Issa's background should have disqualified him from office. Instead, we end up with this moron who is completely controlled by the basest right wing of his district. Why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me.
Issa is yet another example of how those on the right are devoid of conscience and incapable of shame.
Darryl Issa Moron
So, by Issa's logic, the program is so fundamentally flawed that the only reason for it being there was to provoke hatred of guns and support for gun control laws.
He realizes that this program was started by George W Bush's administration, right? Is he saying "W" is some anti-gun commie plotting with the UN to come take our guns?
Or, is he saying Obama infiltrated the Bush White House and caused them to kick off this flawed program years before it was apparent that a Democrat would take over after Bush, in the hope that one day it could be used as proof that gun control is necessary?
Seems like the lunatic fringe is hitting a new low in the conspiracy barrel. I'm sure there's more they could scrape off the bottom, but this sludge is not particularly appetizing.