Voter suppression is an I.Q. test.

The same kind of test that people failed in Germany during the 1930s.

Could you imagine a Goebbels-produced similar style ad made in Germany back in the 1930s?

Smiling, happy Germans, youth with shovels, matrons in overcoats, workingmen in caps, all turn and confidently show the camera the ID papers they have sewn inside their coats.

As the music swells their fresh faces offer testament to how the papers give them the FULL benefits of patriotic German citizenship. They can march in parades! Get an extra stein of beer if they sing a song in the beer garden. Know that the butcher will give them the best cut of meat.

Citizenship has its benefits. Show your papers today!

Jews, gays, and others could flash their gold stars or pink triangles and say how much SAFER it makes them feel, to be separate from patriotic Germans, who just have higher standards than they have, so it isn't so hard to keep up.

What? You mean you don't wear a dress shirt and tie to the polls? Maybe they could have a drive to provide ties to the underclass, I mean it just is unseemly to think about anyone going without proper attire.

Ties will be provided at the ID check in. You cannot vote without proper attire. This is what Republicans call JOBS.

The people in the clip are aliens from another planet. Am I the only one that can see this?

Because millions of people don't have ID's, don't have the money to get ID's.

The elderly(both black and white) often don't have and will have great difficulty in getting their birth certificates and then will have to pay money they don't necessarily have in trying to do so.

This is a poll tax. Pure and simple.

We're talking about Constitutional rights, not choices like wanting to drive, getting a job, or buying alcohol. When people register to vote, they give a signature, and when they vote they sign the register. If there is a question, a signature on file can be used for comparison. That should be adequate.

It's not so much the requirement of an ID Gailm, as the timing & lack of credible alternatives for those who may not be able to get one in time for this election. For most people, it may sound pretty easy, for a lot of people, however, it's not so simple. If it were just a matter of getting a plastic card with my picture on it, that would be easy, but there are more stringent documentation requirements (the only copy of my Birth Certificate is a reduced size photo copy given to my parents when I was born in the 60's), you need to be able to get to a DMV (believe it or not, there are people in the world who don't drink, don't drive and can survive using prior forms of ID that have been perfectly acceptable until now), and you need to be able to pay (what seems like nothing to you or I can be a significant hardship to others, these laws may be forcing people to pick between voting or feeding their kids - it happens).

In the long term, sure, let's have IDs. But, let's not deny citizens their rights because one party is afraid of losing again and feels the need to stack the deck. Let's draft laws that give citizens that time and resources they need to satisfy these requirements and let's build in alternatives for those who can't.

An ID issued by the federal government complete with fingerprint? Include a swath of dna imbedded in the plastic and I am sure it would be an easy sell to all the small government folks.

Voter ID laws also greatly effect students who live away from home, as the ID they will have will certainly not be from the voting precinct and may even be from another state. It makes no sense to require them to get another ID just for voting.

Because it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Do you know how many cases of voter fraud were actually committed in 2008 in Texas? 8 - only 8. A voter ID law will essentially "kick out" over 600,000 voters in Texas who don't have photo ID's.

It is my belief that these photo ID laws is a kin to the Mark of the Beast in Revelations. I'm not even Christian, but it is the radical right-wing that seems oblivious to these obviously hypocritical actions. I'm not saying that this is the "mark of the beast," but it is certainly a first step towards it. Listen to what you even said Gailm? In order to get a job, you need an ID, in order to get government benefits, you'll need an ID. Now you'll need one to vote. The government wants to keep you under constant surveillance. Small government indeed. It would only be a logical step to implant ID chips into people's bodies because that would end the debate over photo ID laws. Just swipe your hand over the counter to validate your person, charge your accounts, or unlock your apartment. Some people already implant ID chips into their pets. Microchip implantation is coming, and we are going to allow it to happen with laws like these...

Don't you feel if a Photo ID is required to exercise your RIGHT to vote by any governmental body, that body should both fund the ID cards and allot enough time prior to a national election that everyone has time to obtain these cards? The timing of this is suspicious as is the fact that economically, it affects those least able to afford it, but who are most likely to vote Democratic. Plus, these laws are ostensibly to prevent "widespread" voter fraud which is non-existent. Therefore, where's the need to rush?

To me, these voter id laws are just another version of the "papers, please" law in Arizona. We need to know exactly who you are and where you are from at any given point in time. This is about control, not about what's right.

It's funny. You don't need to have this much ID to own a gun. Through the gun show loophole, I can buy a gun without any ID whatsoever. A guy I used to work with said once, "Owning a gun is a right, not a priviledge." He has a point. He used that point, though, to argue against having forms of identification, such as a driver's license, in order to buy a gun. By that logic, one should be able to vote (which is a right not a priviledge) without extraneous forms of identification. The shoe is now on the other foot.

This whole idea of voter id is another way of making things less equal. Because, as you might have heard, some people are more equal than others.

I live- and vote!- in Pa, so this past weekend I went on line to see what is involved in getting a photo ID.

Easy peasy, why a blind 92 year old in a walker could do it!

=========================================

Here's how:

Proof of identification for voting purposes.

If a voter does not POSSESS PROOF OF IDENTIFICATION FOR VOTING PURPOSES as defined at section 102(z.5)(2) of the Pennsylvania Election Code (25 P.S. § 2602(z.5)(2)) and requires proof of identification for voting purposes, the following applies:

You must declare under oath or affirmation by completing the Oath/ Affirmation Voter ID form that you do not possess any of the following forms of identification: In particular,

-Identification issued by the United States Government that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.*

- Identification issued by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired (unless issued by the Department of Transportation, then the expiration of the identification cannot be more than 12 months past the expiration date).

- Identification issued by a municipality of this Commonwealth to an employee of that municipality that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

- Identification issued by an accredited Pennsylvania public or private institution of higher learning that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

- Identification issued by a Pennsylvania care facility that includes my name, a photograph, and an expiration date that is not expired.

*In the case of a document from an agency of the armed forces of the United States or their reserve components, including the Pennsylvania National Guard, that establishes the voter as a current member or a veteran of the United States Armed Forces or National Guard and that does not designate a specific date on which the document expires, the document must include a notation indicating that the expiration is indefinite.

$13.50 fee for acquiring an Identification Card will be waived for individuals completing the Oath/ Affirmation Voter ID form. All identification documentation is still required to obtain an Identification Card as follows:

Step1

To obtain a Pennsylvania Photo Identification card, an individual needs to visit a Pennsylvania Department of Transportation Driver License Center with a completed Application for an Initial Photo Identification Card; form DL-54A, and the following:

Social Security Card

AND

One of the following:

•Certificate of U.S. Citizenship

•Certificate of Naturalization

•Valid U.S. Passport

•*Birth Certificate with a raised seal

PLUS

•Two proofs of **residency such as lease agreements, current utility bills, mortgage documents, W-2 form, tax records

*If they do not have a birth certificate with a raised seal and are a Pennsylvania native; and do not have one of the acceptable, alternative forms of photo identification to vote; and will provide a signed oath/affirmation form, when visiting the PennDOT driver license center, they must:

•Tell the PennDOT customer service representative they are a Pennsylvania native who needs a photo ID for voting purposes, and do not have a certified copy of their birth certificate;

•Sign an oath/affirmation that they do not have an acceptable form of ID for voting purposes and the photo ID is needed for voting purposes;

•Show a Social Security card and two proofs of residence, such as a deed, lease, tax bill, or utility bill;

•Fill out a DL-54A form requesting a non-driver photo ID and;

•Complete the HD01564F (Request for Certification of Birth Record for Voter ID Purposes Only) form, which collects information such as birth name, mother and father's name and place of birth. This Department of Health form is available at all Driver Licensing Centers.

PennDOT will then forward the completed form to the Department of Health, which maintains birth records. After verifying the birth record is on file, the Department of Health will securely transmit this information to PennDOT. PennDOT will then notify them by letter that their birth record has been confirmed. They may then return to any driver license center, with the above noted documentation, to receive your free photo ID for voting purposes. This verification process will take about ten days and does not require the payment of a fee.

**Students at least 18 years of age: Accepted proofs of residency include the room assignment paperwork (considered a lease) and one bill with their dorm room address on it. Bank statements, paystubs and credit card bills are all acceptable. Other Individuals who may not have any bills, leases or mortgage documents in their name may bring the person with whom they are living along with their Driver’s License or Photo ID to a driver license center as one proof of residence.

Step 2

When their application and supporting documentation have been reviewed and processed, a Driver License Center staff member will direct the applicant to the Photo Center to have their photo taken for their Photo ID card.

Step 3

Once their photo has been taken, they will be issued a Photo ID card.

The truly sad and discouraging thing here is that there so many people with blinders on and that have no clue of their neighbors status, or their own. These people are so self centered, egotistical, and unaware of their current location most of the time and text while walking on sidewalks and roads and into fountains. Years ago those people would be called ostriches because their heads are always in the sand due to crippling fear. Be courageous and lift head from the sand and SEE! If you can.

Currently, I wouldn't be able to get a ID if I lived in PA. And, I'm a 47 yr old, honorably discharged veteran. Of course, I wasn't born in PA, so how does that state deal with people born elsewhere who don't have 'raised seal' imprinted birth certificates?

I also couldn't tell you with certainty where my father was born, being as he left before when I was in grade school & never came back.

So, I don't think I would be allowed to vote if I moved to PA, without taking several (possibly expensive) steps to obtain an acceptable copy of my birth certificate, and possibly jumping through a few more hoops.

Not to mention this "free" voter id isn't free. This whole BS operation is costing tax paid funds which we in the state of PA simply Do. Not. Have. We have an underfunded school system, underfunded police force, underfunded medicaid, etc etc etc. We didn't have the money for this nonsense, and it was pushed through anyway. Who cares if our kids can't read or do simple math? Oh, wait, the republicans.

DAY ... I'm only surprised that the instructions given to those likely to vote with the Democrats aren't written in Chinese, like some of the old "voter literacy tests" in the South.

Gailm ... The problem here is that the main goal is to suppress voting. That's really, really bad for the future health of our country. Especially one with the low voter participation rates in THIS country. If you don't care about the future of democracy, and you don't respect the sacrifices made by soldiers and by those who fought for the right to vote, you should love these kinds of proposals.

Oh for crying out loud folks! Did the Jews complain about wearing a star of David? I mean next you will bitch when the right returns to the Scarlet Letter.Heathens!

Strange thing is that the group opposed to big government wants you to be forced to get a government ID in order to vote on election day. I guess they are OK with a national registry in the hands of the government and are fine with the idea of Taxation without representation.

Try getting any picture ID if you do have the required documents. If you need a certified birth certificate to get your ID in Michigan you have to have a picture ID to get the birth certificate. That takes time and costs money. Notice they are saying it is a free state ID but they do not tell you what you must bring with you so they can verify you are who you say you are.

Heathen and Proud!

While your proposed solution wouldn't constitute an unfair poll tax, and wouldn't suspiciously disporportionately disenfranchise Democratic constituencies, it would cost a ton of money. As for your first question, the answer is "This is not a hypothetical - no one actually comes in and votes multiple times." You're falling for the b.s. the GOP puts up as its battle cry in all these efforts, the completely fictional "widespread voter fraud." The number of proven instances of actual voter fraud found in numerous studies and investigations on the issue is so small as to be laughable. It's time-consuming enough to go vote once. No one wants to stand on line for an hour two or three times, and in practice simply having humans running the polling places is enough deterrent for any would-be double-voters, assuming there actually are any.

The "solution" is make voter fraud a crime. Which it is. The solution is in place. It has kept mass voter fraud by those with "an agenda" from happening. Voter ID laws are a solution to a problem that does not exist.

A few things - the desire to actually vote more than once, that one (or 10) extra votes in a precint aren't going to have much effect, and that it's not that easy: at least in Missouri, there is a registered voters book. You need to give your name and have some sort of ID (voter registration card, driver's license, utility bill matching name and address) - for the value of an extra vote vs. the penalties for getting caught, I don't see many people messing with it. And that is reflected in the incredibly small number of actual cases of voter fraud that have occurred.

It is called a signature. Personally and professionally unique to each Human Being. Like fingerprints and the retina. Fraud is fraud, forgery is forgery and the highest % of where those crimes are committed are by the very corporations that have purchased the politicians to do their bidding. This divisiveness is just what they want, they us fighting among ourselves inside of paying attention what they are doing to all of us.

Think about it. There are voter checklists. When someone votes they are checked off the list. If fraud was happening the real voter would raise holy hell. There are few if any cases of this happening. For deceased voters on the list it would be eventually discovered. Again, few or no cases have been found and the Bush justice department really looked hard. It's a problem that doesn't exist and for the downside see my comment about my mother.

Yes. The AG should be arguing that the federal government is the only entity that can regulate voting in federal elections. There is nothing in the constitution that allows states to set voting qualifications for federal elections. The Justice Dept. should issue guidelines to the states on what ID's are permissible for federal offices. It would cost states a lot of money to have different ballots and machines for voters who can vote in all elections and those who can vote only in federal elections. States would need to seriously consider whether the cost of these new voter ID laws are worth having to spend a lot of money with state budgets that are tight. In addition, the AG can still challenge these laws for state and local elections and that will cost states money to defend in federal court.

Day , do you know how long it takes before such an ID expires?

I know that my Maine State ID expires after six years, and I have to replace it sometime next year. It wouldn't surprise me if the rules are different in other states.

I'm sure that the cost of getting and ID varies quite a bit between states. My Maine State ID was only five bucks, and it wouldn't surprise me if a Maine State ID was one of the cheapest ones in the country.

See that would make sense. Oh yeah it is the Census.....

Wrong. I worked for the Census in 2010. No PII (Personally Identifiable Information) can ever be shared. That's why you won't see any of the information on 2010 for at least 78 years that is personal.

I think it is only 72 years unless they changed the law recently. The 1940 census is now available to search and that was 72 years ago.

Rules can be changed. That's sort of what this is all about. And while regulations pertaining to the Census would certainly need to be changed to enact something of this nature, the same structure could, at the very least, ensure that a copy of the proper forms and information are dropped off to every person.

Or, the Census taker could simply fill out both forms, sealing up the ID forms & allowing the occupants to mail them. The idea is similar to using the DMV to register to vote. Instead of creating an entirely new administrative entity, you adapt existing ones to serve multiple objectives.

As a follow-up, voter registration could also be enacted through the public & private school systems, with the reasoning being taught and the process being provided for. Wouldn't it be fantastic if everyone eligible graduated high school as a registered voter? I think everyone could be well served by a decent Civics class.

I don't know if they still hand out voter registration cards at my high school or not, but they have done it in the past.

I actually filled out my voter registration card in one of my high school classes. I filled it out not too long before 2004 election, but I didn't turn 18 until just over a week after the election. So, I ended up double checking at city hall to make sure that my name was on the list before the 2005 election, and everything's been all set ever since. :) Even if I had gotten to the polls, and my name hadn't been on the list, I would have been fine since we've got same day registration in Maine. :D

Meaning?

What is confusing?

When I said "Meaning?" the comment only showed that we haven't seen nothing yet. It seems to have changed since then. I tend to agree there needs to be more push-back against these laws, unfortunately - if I'm understanding this correctly - these laws are being enacted in states where Democrats have little political power.

It almost looks like everyone is waiting for someone else to do something in a lot of cases. While some (most? all?) of the laws are being challenged, that's not really helping (at least as far as I can see) with voter confusion, disenfranchisement, or actually getting people IDs should those challenges fail.

So, I agree more needs to be done. I guess the broader questions are who? what? where? & how? I thought I read/heard something a week or so ago (maybe even on Maddow) on how many Democratic supporters are holding back, waiting to see if that 'have' to spend money ... basically looking for some kind of indicator that they need to act. I think if they can, they should, even if they don't support a specific candidate, they can support an effort to get voters the information and identification they need.

We can do it. Volunteer. Go door to door. Speak to people. Get them to understand. Offer to drive them to get them registered. Drive them to the polling places. Share, inform, educate. Don't leave it to the politicians, lying Fox News, or the government. Be proactive. It works!!

I think Patriot Gamer hit the nail squarely on the head. How many of the states rewriting there voter ID laws have sitting Republican governors and legislators? If you look you will probably notice all of them do.

How many states have the ability like Maine to fight back with the People's Veto?

What if all states had something like Maine's People's Veto? Given things that have happened recently, I know that Michigan and Ohio have similar things in their State Constitutions.

Although, I have no idea how easy it would be for people in other states to get something like that passed. It would probably require amending State Constitutions, and I'm sure the process isn't easy.

"Even my animals have to be registered." Yes, and mine do too, and they are. And voters have to be registered. So what is your point? "It is NOT discrimination to ask everyone for an ID. It is special treatment if certain individuals are NOT asked for an ID." HUH?? You are begging the question. Here is the deal: it is a BIG problem that people must show officially issued PICTURE IDs. It is not enough now simply to be REGISTERED. That is the problem.

you don't get it do you Tim? It's paying to vote that is the problem. If I had to spend money for a birth certificate, to get to a place that makes the ID's, etc, then it is essentially a poll tax. Now, if Gov. Corbett wants to give out free birth certificates, that would be at least one thing. Are you willing to support that? They evidently *aren't* and it comes down to Turzai's declaration of cause, the voter ID act, and effect, the hope that *it* will cause Romney to win.

If this were really about voter fraud, as opposed to trying to steal a close election, three things would be true. First, these laws would be phased in over a period of several years. Second, a wide variety of types of identification would be allowed that represent the kinds of ID people are likely to possess. Third, substantial funding would be provided to account for the outreach necessary to make sure that everyone is clearly notified and has an adequate chance to comply.

The fact that none of these is true in most of the states doing this tells you that the main goal is to put a finger on the scale in the 2012 elections.

Knobson, your solution is too logical and therefore wouldn't even be considered.

That would be a reasonable solution, but would not solve the problem of getting Romney elected in 2012. :P

This would make a lot of sense if it was all about fraud, and it is a very good idea but we know that there is little fraud but way too many people who might vote against the Republicans.

Why stop with showing ID for voting when the requirement as written in Philadelphia did not need there to be any even near-significant fraud to justify such a law? This is a government assail on individual rights without reason pertinent to the claim of fraud but pertinent only to inhibit a free vote. I have already fulfilled the legal requirement to vote, as all registered voters have, and do not want additional government hurdles to for me to exercise my rights.

VBM works great. User-easy. I can vote early and get it over with though states and locals are starting to inhibit by limiting how early one can vote. We should be using VBM everywhere and thus support the exercise of our voting rights, not inhibit voting through unnecessary ID requirements where fraud is practically non-existent.

Excellent idea. This would stop the long lines, taking time from work, missing the deadline by getting to the polls by a couple minutes late, etc. I like the VBM idea. Not very big on the internet idea. That can be forged in a heartbeat. It's already been proven that the electronic voting machines can be rigged, so I don't believe technology is the way to go. We need to go back to paper. Signatures compared, that way there is no doubt. And definitely would increase turnout, especially for the older folk who don't use technology anyway.

Those voting machines were a give-away deal to private enterprise with no guarantee of service, and that's just what they got.