Associated Press
Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) isn't inclined to fold with a good hand.
Policymakers are well aware of the looming tax deadline: on Dec. 31, all Bush-era tax rates expire at the same time, returning the nation to Clinton-era tax rates. President Obama wants an extension for those making less than $250,000, while asking the top 2% to pay the higher rates on income above $250,000.
The Republican line, not surprisingly, is that this is unacceptable -- they won't allow the breaks for the middle class to continue unless Democrats agree to also protect benefits for the wealthy "job creators."
The GOP, however, is slowly starting to realize something: Democrats have some leverage here. Not only do polls show the public opposing the GOP line, but Dems don't seem especially afraid of the Republican threat.
Democrats are making increasingly explicit threats about their willingness to let nearly $600 billion worth of tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January unless Republicans drop their opposition to higher taxes for the nation's wealthiest households.
Emboldened by signs that GOP resistance to new taxes may be weakening, senior Democrats say they are prepared to weather a fiscal event that could plunge the nation back into recession if the new year arrives without an acceptable compromise.
Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.), a member of the caucus leadership, is set to argue at Brookings today, "If we can't get a good deal, a balanced deal that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share, then I will absolutely continue this debate into 2013."
In most respects, this is the opposite of the debt-ceiling crisis. In that situation, Republicans clearly had leverage -- if Democrats failed to make the GOP happy, Republicans would crash the economy on purpose. Dems were confident their rivals weren't bluffing, so they felt compelled to find a ransom they could tolerate paying to the hostage-takers.
This time, however, Democrats aren't terrified of the consequences of failure.
If Clinton-era rates returned on Jan. 31, 2013, that'd be a shame, but it wouldn't be catastrophic. Indeed, Democratic leaders believe they'd have even more leverage in the new year, at which point they could again push the middle-class tax breaks and dare the GOP to reject them.
The larger point is important: Democrats feel like they're playing the stronger hand, and don't much care whether Republicans are bluffing. We'll see if they maintain this posture at the fight intensifies, but for now, the party appears to be aware of their advantage.
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baaaaa.....lol..... good for you Microsoft.
MSNBC's embarrassing mockery of the news and deliberate refusal to Tell the Truth has tainted the NBC News brand with a layer of stink so thick it could take generations to cleanse. Is it any wonder that a titan of industry like Microsoft would want to distance its valuable brand from MSNBC's radioactive stench?
Maybe, just maybe, Comcast has finally suffered enough embarrassment thanks to its NBC News and MSNBC divisions to muzzle their frothing, rabid liberal attack dogs and go back to reporting the news.
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-bozell/2012/07/16/bozell-statement-nbc-news-recognizes-msnbc-brand-malignant-tumor#ixzz20nvSBtzX
Yawn-inducing trolling. Are you getting paid for this, or volunteering?
truth hurt?......
Ahem Truth? Microsoft's CEO is Steve Ballmer, net worth 16 billion who is a staunch republican. (source)
Democrats, our President included, have finally jumped into their Sumo Wrestling suits ! There is nothing wrong with backbone and standing nose to nose with Radical right Wingers who are trying to turn America into a Plantation Nation with Romney as their poster boy for greed !
Good for him....get rid of the liberal lapdog that is MSNBC and their lies.
Oh yeah right.
We are supposed to have only one voice of propaganda coming from Fux Noise and Radical Right-Wingers in a Free-Market, Democratic Republic right ?
Oh wait, that would be a Fascistic Theocracy where only Religious-Fanatic, Right-Wingers have the right to speak.
You better check yourself before you wreck yourself AND this Democracy.
Little Timmy, You really need to ask your parents if they will read to you from news sources other than the yellow stained right-wing rags. You will learn so-o much more of world events, political and otherwise, that it will wake you up from your conservative doldrums like that other kid who has grown up to now reject the right-wing, lock-step rhetoric. Good Luck to your future in a rational world.
DNFTT, children...it only makes 'em meaner and snarkier.
Looks like the wingnut trolls are getting a bit edgy and frustrated. There's good reason for that if the Democrats finally learn the public actually supports their issue (which they do).
Get mad, wingnut trolls. Your little alternate universe Wingnut World is going down.
...
Wait, Rand Paul 2016?! Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (cough!) ha ha ha ha.. I'm surprised you got the year right. Board certified by the board I started! Great!
Maybe Mr. Fairshare should get his ppl to pay their fair share......
http://news.investors.com/article/599002/201201260818/obama-white-house-staff-back-taxes.htm
36 Obama aides owe $833,000 in back taxes
Do you know (if this is true) how you know this? Because you know what is contained in White House staffers' tax returns. Yet your candidate refuses to meet the level of disclosure that low-level political appointees are required to. Why don't you focus your energy on seeing that Romney releases his returns.
Maybe Romney should show his returns when Obama shows his college transcripts Mr transparency in change.
Both are available to be viewed by the public for a fee. Maybe Tea Potty crazies and Radical Republicans should put up or shut up !
Yes, because a driving concern has been that Pres. Obama has been making political decisions to make up for an awful grade he got once in college... The false equivalency (that tax returns = college transcript) is so loony, it's hard to formulate a response.
Mitt Romney is the one who put up his business experience as to WHY voters should choose him to be President -- not his time as Mass. Governor because he is ashamed of his record there -- but his time at Bain Capital !!!
WE have a right to look over his claims with a magnifying glass to test his veracity !
He made the case ! Now he has to ( lie ) in it !
Deal with it.
This is an apple. This is an orange. See the difference? Of course you don't...
Semantics....your blinded by ideology, most ppl see it as common sense. Libs want transparency yet Obama campaigned on it adn he is doing quite the opposite.
Trolling, trolling, trolling down the river.
Looks to me like Timmy has got his foot stuck under a railroad tie and there's a train coming. Quick Lassie, run and get Grampa!!! Better yet, go chase a rabbit for while.
Shooter has been doing troll recruiting. Look at the quality of the riff-raff that shows up. Jeez...
Question of the day: has the Democratic Party learned how to play hardball politics?! I thought hell would freeze over first. (Maybe it has - global climate change and all.) This is great stuff. Imagine the democratic party reaching back, feeling for something, and... "oh, wait, we do have a spine!" Who knew? Keep it up guys, the only way to counter bullying is not to submit to it.
One word: Chicago.
It's not hardball.
It's poetry of life.
This will tie into an overwhelming narrative that all Dems running for Congress will be able to employ without explicitly aligning themselve with the president- a dodgy proposition for races such as McCaskill.
Why do I think this will be more than rhetorical spin.
Obama has warned all the pundits exactly what he will do. He has stated that he always admired Reagan for a particular reason. He talked to Charlie Rose about how his biggest error was to neglect storytelling, a sentiment that is not an outlier- he said the same thing to Ron Suskind for his book Confidence Men, and was ironically lampooned at the time by Noonan, someone adept at the art, but denies its existence (like here).
For a lengthy description of what I mean, complete with a contrast of Obama's technocratic Alinsky style messaging (he regards as a failure) versus a literary handling of an issue performed by Reagan, interested readers can take a look at my essay on this here.
Myth Robme the Swiss Miss retroactive etch a sketch candidate will either release his tax returns or be hounded until the election that he will lose....HAHA too funny...
what about mr transparency in chief?......
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/28/obama-ducks-calls-to-release-his-collegiate-transc/
Even Right-Wing leaders are calling for Mitt Romney -- The Etch-A-Sketch Man -- to release more of his tax returns.
A little cheese with your whine ?
Right on your WT link, the sub-headline is:
"Romney Academic Records Also A Mystery"
THERE'S your equivalency.
What about transparency for the presidential hopeful? This candidate fronts for the anti-abortion crowd?
Not only did Bain invest in this company in November 1999, Romney PERSONALLY invested in Stericycle. Here read this SEC filing to see it with your own eyes:
http://www.motherjones.com/documents/392937-stericycle-13d-1999
Check out page 37 for Romney's signature. His personal investment in Stericycle is through Sankaty the bermuda shell corporation. Romney set up Sankaty in 1997 for his personal investments and transferred it to Ann's blind trust one day before taking office as Governor in MA.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2012_07/the_bain_quatrain038599.php#comments
Source citing neglected. The above information was posted by TT on July 16, 2012 10:21 AM on the website listed. Sorry TT.
Ending ALL of the tax cuts accomplishes what the GOP said they wanted--deficit reduction. Now of course they say we can't do it because it would lead us back in to recession.
Wait, so they're saying deficit spending is a good way to get out of recession. Stimulus is good????
I can't deny that I've enjoyed paying lower taxes. But even though I am well below that $250K mark, I would rather pay the Clinton-era rate than allow the GOP to further gut the social safety net.
I'm also for saving more of the Pentagon budget. As long as the money goes to military personnel, not contractors. VA benefits, not more weapons systems.
Thats assuming the democrits will not just spend it on something else...good luck on that one.
Last I checked the GOP is still running the House of Representatives. The Democrats can't spend a dime without their blessing. Hopefully the Dems will re-take the House in November, and we can finally get back to the business of legislating, instead of obstruction.
What does "they'll just spend it on something else" even mean in this context? The deal that was struck last summer is pretty specific about spending.
um.....can u say $15 trillion debt and deficit spending budgets every year now without a budget submitted by the senate?
Lol, Microsoft dumps MSNBC..... poor MSNBC will be no more. Maybe the new look will have some accountability and quit getting smacked down by FOX news and others.....
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/comcasts-nbc-buys-msnbc-stake-from-microsoft-2012-07-16?link=MW_latest_news
www.right-wing-trolls-are-delusional.com
You have the wrong site wingnut troll boy. Click on this:
http:www.RightWingNutJob.com/
It's this way: --------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Two words...Rupert Murdoch
Looking at how the Republicans go and rig these elections so much by outright corruption. These positions where the Republicans supposedly get elected can hardly be respected. There is a certain amount of respect that is deserved for these elected government positions and that is the very reason these Republicans cannot be respected or even considered to be legal under such rigged and stolen elections. These are not elected officials, but pure corruption and should not be accepted as anything else. That is one big reason Bush and Chenney should be considered to be a President or Vice president, when this election was so totally rigged and stolen by a pack of thieves.
Just one instance of MSNBC's bs.....caught race baiting. Pathetic. Gun toting "white racist" at a tea party. Oops, only it was a black guy before MSNBC "edited" it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYKQJ4-N7LI
Yes by all means . . . lets have only ONE source of propaganda in this free country -- Fux Noise.
Wave the Flag of Freedom while you select against your own survival and watch as The Right-Wing Lies While Democracy Dies !!
How many more times do you need to post before you start earning some Schrute bucks?
I am so sorry. I keep forgetting that only Right-Wingers have freedom of speech !
If you can't stand the truth - get out of progressive blogging.
timmy's comments would be funny if they weren't so sad. you have no credibility sir.
Amen Jason ! Soooooo pathetic.
The tr0ll's are out in force today. I'm going to wear out the ignore button at this rate, and it's not even a physical thing.
Hey everyone....look...shooter is wearing a timmy suit.......is it halloween already?
ROFLMAO Buster !
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll
The Urban Dictionary
Troll :
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.
1b. Noun
A person who, on a message forum of some type, attacks and flames other members of the forum for any of a number of reasons such as rank, previous disagreements, sex, status, ect.
A troll usually flames threads without staying on topic, unlike a "Flamer" who flames a thread because he/she disagrees with the content of the thread.
1c. Noun
A member of an internet forum who continually harangues and harasses others. Someone with nothing worthwhile to add to a certain conversation, but rather continually threadjacks or changes the subject, as well as thinks every member of the forum is talking about them and only them. Trolls often go by multiple names to circumvent getting banned.
On the Discworld, troll's are mineral life forms with silicon brains and nervous systems. Like computers, troll brains work poorly at high temperatures, with the result that the hotter it gets, the dumber trolls appear to become.
I bring that up due to the intense summer heat we're currently experiencing. I'm sure everyone can connect the dots, except for one group for obvious reasons.
32 comment, and most of them are either timmy's childish comments or people wasting space responding to his childish comments. people, please don't feed the trolls! thank-you.
If you feel it is feeding the trolls to engage in debate, then by all means, you are welcome to not post anything.
Agreed Hope. I have been called a troll many times here simply because I may see things a little (or a lot) different than the pack here. If there were no dissenting comments here it would be pretty boring reading each others rah-rahing the same exact comments.
Or it can be uplifting not to deal with troll comments and uninformed posters like timmy, shooter and you....
<no sarcasm intended>
On the subject of trolls - I have to say that skip and RobDon are not trolls. They consistently offer their opinions on policy matters, they do listen and respond with a reasonable level of respect, and occasionally will even admit to being wrong about a detail or two.
I almost never agree with their positions on things, but they don't meet troll criteria.
Shooter aka Timmy, however...different story.
Thank your KJ. Even I know that there are a few looney tunes out here....and I'm glad some folks think I am not too looney :).
KJ it doesn't mean that skippy isn't a troll, he's just a personable one. Just sayin.
OK Donna, I get it. You do not like anyone that doesn't agree with you.
I didn't say that at all skippy. Your viewpoint is that of a right wing person. You post those right wing views on this thread. It is not a matter of me disagreeing or not; your viewpoints have been exposed as being untruthful. It doesn't mean that you can't be "personable." But it your views are quite troll like.
I don't know enough about your life to like you or not, but based upon what I see of your beliefs on this site, I would have to say that no, I wouldn't want to get to know you. Just sayin.
Skip Hoffman. The comments I posted above were not meant to be in your defense. It is just that debate is the nature of blogging even it it has to be with trolls at times.
Steve, you're making the same error as most everyone else in the media, and Obama himself. Its not a tax cut extension for those 'making less than 250K'. It's a tax cut for ALL income up to 250K.
K, I think Steve states it correctly when he says "asking the top 2% to pay the higher rates on income above $250,000." To me, that means they would continue to pay current rates up to $250K and higher rates on income above that.
This is just more political blather during silly time. Nothing will get done until after the election. Who really thinks the Dems wiill let the entire tax cut expire?
Well now it would seem the right is in a spot. Bush took to near depression but they rebounded by letting Obama win and thus take the heat for the Bush failure. Now they must either put us back on the road to failure by blocking the tax cut for the middle class and enforcing draconian cuts in spending or cave in. If the tax cuts fail because of republicans then will they truly want to win in November??
Not every republican is a little timmy-bot.
Are you implying that the Republican Party actually 'allowed' Obama to become President so long as they also knew they'd get the House ? Hmmmm....
That's kind of awesome and truly explains a totally "do nothing" House.
Won't work this time.... LOL
Little surprise that the sycophants of Fox News forget to mention their paragon of virtue. A panel of the British Parliament said Rupert Murdoch "was not a fit person" to run an international company. Report also said Mr. Murdoch exhibited "willful blindness" toward wrongdoing at his organization. NY Times July 16. 2012. It is no wonder Fox is so rabid for Mitt. He is a chip off their own blockhead owner.
I know I am off topic folks sorry but:
Obviously its nuts to claim you are Chmn, CEO and 100% owner and no assume responsibility for entities actions. Its impolitic (tx George Will) not to release tax returns - especially given off-shore accounts. But let's ask Mitt if he invested with Bain after 1999 in those deals from which he is trying to distance himself. Nobody is asking about those investments - anything but a flat out denial speaks for itself.
sorry, i can't quite applaud this one. The problem is that the Democrats are learning, but they still haven't learned. And they are doing their learning in public, and it is very ham-fisted.
look, the headlines they got this morning were "Democrats threaten fiscal cliff." after Steve, me, everyone I know, and probably most of you spent last summer attacking Republicans for their willingness to play chicken with the economy, I find these headlines to be awful, not something to rave about.
Yes, our side needs to learn to play the game, and yes, our side needs to have more backbone. But I would hope we could do it with a little more subtlety than the Republicans. Again, Democrats and messaging go together like fish and bicycles. Sheesh.
Democrats are making increasingly explicit threats about their willingness to let nearly $600 billion worth of tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January
The average American won't "get it" until then (January), so this will not matter for the election either way. Yes, the Democrats can point it out that the Republicans let the middle class taxes go up, but the vast, vast majority of voters do not watch the Sunday morning talk shows or talk radio or go to sites like this, so it will not sway their vote either way. They will realize it when they get their first few checks in January - after they can do anything about it until 2014....which of course they will forget about the tax increase by then. :)
So since it won't "make a difference" let them expire. Then the rich will see an increase in their taxes as well. Obama and the Dems get the increase in revenue and the rich folks will have to pay higher taxes, which should piss all who signed that Norquist off. :)
Well Donna, if you put it that way, then that's OK with me. We do need the revenue to tackle the deficits and debt. And for the record I have no problem with folks making over $250k paying a little higher percentage than the rest of us in middle/lower middle class. It would unfortunately not be good for those at the lower end to pay more.
Now if the increase on everyone (including the middle class) DID take effect before the election, I do think it would be a great campaign tool for the Democrats.
Well of course it would be okay for you skippy! The republican way is the only way to exist in America!
/sarcasm off/
Why do you constantly think I am a Republican? I do not remember defending anything Republican or Romney for that matter. I may have pointed out things that didn't add up or amount to much when it comes to criticism of the right, and I have supported some policies of the Left - not many :) - but I am not a right winger. If anything I am an independent with a libertarian leaning and usually vote third party - I have voted Citizens Party, Green Party, Libertarian Party and just plain old Independent for President since 1976.
You are funny in a way. Even when I agreed with you above, you still have to poke at me. Don't get it Donna...what did I ever do to you. I still like seeing your posts. Oh well.
skippy it doesn't matter what you call yourself. You represent a right wing belief system, you just don't have the balls to admit it, or somehow you think you are smarter than both parties, either reason is bull.
As for the libertarian claim: I wouldn't claim that if I were you.
And there is nothing funny about you.
And the "what did I ever do to you" victim mode is very a republican response.
And I really don't care if you like seeing my posts or not.
Oh well.
Not quite Skip. Dems can run on the theme that Republicans are raising your taxes. That is turning the Republican theme about taxes back on them. The 99% is not going to be happy if they think their taxes are going up. And Dems have a campaign message unless the Republicans negotiate a deal before the election.
If Republicans gamble that they will control the House and Senate, they still have to consider a presidential veto if Obama wins reelection. Second, if the Republicans lose seats which is highly likely in the House, it weakens their negotiating position. If Dems control either House after the elections, then Republicans become more irrelevant to the tax issue. And the worst scenario for Republicans is that Dems control both Houses. The Dems are also gambling that they could win the House and maybe the Senate. Neither the Dems or Republicans will feel any pressure to negotiate before September when Congress returns for the fall session. But by that time the trends in voting will be apparent and that could harden the position of both sides.
Good point Mike. Another interesting point on this (to me at least) is the fact that we are talking about the "Bush tax cuts" that were extended during Obama's term and it is he and the Democrats that want it to go longer for the middle class. My question is, if it does work out that way....will they still be called the "Bush tax cuts"?
One more thing...no one is talking about the SS tax cut that I do believe is set to expire at the end of the year. That expiration will obviously hit the middle class too - increasing their tax 2%. Is this one of the reasons for the "Bush tax cut" extension or is this break just going to quietly expire and be blamed on whoever is in office next year? You know it will based on the attention span of the gerneral public.
Where do you get "January 31" from in the article? The tax cuts expire on January 1, not 31.