Voting is a right. All of the other stuff you mention are privileges. Non-sequitur.

The left think their constituents are so pathetic they can't get an ID. Why don't they help them get one? It not only helps them in the voter discussion, it helps them in other areas of life as well. Why does this affect African American's more?

The right echoes their communistic gurus with no regard to the constitution or civil rights.

They also disregard the elderly and the poor within their own party suggesting the party would purge itself of these people along with the democrats they are actually trying to disenfranchise. Such stupidity must be rewarded with the billionaires campaign funds buying air time in order to con the disgruntled within the party into fearing the left while the right destroys them.

This is 2012. Get a photo id. Stop making this a political issue. The Constitution says all citizens can vote. What's wrong with proving you are a citizen?

So, my Costco ID card if it had my birth date and address on it, should be good enough to serve as my voting ID in PA and the other 29 states that have passed these laws in the past 8 years? So, why won't these states recognize that? And, why don't the states decide ONE standard for identification, not 50 if the motive is to ensure only those who are legally entitled to vote do vote? So, if I'm a registered voter already, why do I have to now submit a new form of ID? I'm sure I'm on the Homeland Security list of citizens...how about I bring my tax return to the next voting site...wait a minute, my state has vote by mail and my name on the voting rolls for the last 32 years, but gee, Tom, Eric, and Steve, that's not enough?

Um, excuse me but your guy there said the point is to rig the election!

Again, voting is a right. Democracy is served when everyone votes. Putting obstacles in front of people is un-American.

Your GOP is positively un-American in this regard. It's offensive.

Tom, Eric, and Steve: There is no voter fraud. The only recent case of Prosecuted Voter Fraud was Republican Secretary of State in Indiana, Charlie White.

There is no voter fraud running rampart. If this was a legitimate issue it would be bi-partisan, however, it is happening only in states where there is a Republican Governor and a Republican controlled legislation.

President Bush did A 5 year investigation into voter fraud and at the end they found a total of 86 cases. Once the Prosecution and others began investigating them they found most were because of human error. NO VOTER FRAUD

Not everyone has access to vehicles or even public transportation. What happens to those who work (do not drive) and cannot get to the Dept. of Motor Vehicle's etc. during the hours of operation because they have to work? What about the Elderly who were born at a time when home births were common and they do not have birth certificates and/or have moved from the State where they were born. What happens if they have to rely on relatives to drive them, again what about those who work?

This is 2012 and they have lived their lives without the Republicans idea of proper ID and have not had problems. Voting is a Constitutional right and the argument that you need a Photo ID to drive a car - opening a bank account - board a plane; these are privileges not Constitutional Rights. Do you not find it odd that the only people that are being disenfranchised are groups that have historically voted Democratic?

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck - It is a Voter Suppression Duck.

Health care is also a right as defined by the affordable care act. By the "rights" standard, I should be allowed to buy cold medications over the counter without ID, yet I can't. In fact, every time I buy Pseudofed, I not only have to give my ID and have it verified through the state I live in before purchase can be made, but my purchase is registered, and I am limited in the amount I can buy in a certain time period. By your standard, my right to health care is being violated.

The right to keep and bare arms is also a right, yet I cannot purchase a gun without identification AND a background check. By your standard of "rights", my right to own as many guns as I want without having to provide identification is being violated.

(sorry double post)

Lorr ... There were two other cases of voter fraud that should have been prosecuted: Mitt and Ann Romney voting in Massachusetts in 2010, claiming their son's unfurnished basement as their residence.

But, of course, in that case, Republicans are only too happy to overlook a little really obvious voter fraud.

Lu - the issue of buying Sudafed is a mater of public safety since it is used to manufacture methamphetamine. I'm about 99% certain that the ID requirement is a state law for that purpose - not required by the Affordable Care Act. We don't want idiots making, selling or using meth.

The right to keep and bear (not bare) arms is guaranteed by the Constitution, sure. The requirements to present ID and have a background check are also a matter of public safety. We don't want nutjobs shooting people.

Is someone showing up to vote a matter of public safety? No.

"How do those same "disenfranchised" buy beer or some cold medications?"

Many DON"T because they can't afford it!

"How do they cash a check?"

What checks? The ones that grow on trees? (FYI, when was the last time the ATM asked you for ID when you were making a deposit.)

"Gain admittance to a DNC or NAACP function?"

Many don't , because they HAVE NO VEHICLE to get to functions run by these groups.

"Why can't they get ID?"

Many CAN get ID's, but not without significant effort and money to get the documents they need to get the ID. That is called an undue burden and a poll tax.

" What's wrong with making sure that only those who qualify to vote, vote?"

NOTHING, and since there hasn't been a significant problem with it in previous elections, that goal is obviously already being accomplished.

As for medications and guns, MANY do not have the fiances or desire to acquire those either.

Apparently the fact that this affects a majority of poor people escapes those of you who have never really been poor. It's easy to call them freeloaders, even if they don't receive aid, just to make yourself feel better for lacking compassion for those who have less then nothing.

KJ-- Of course we don't want idiots making, selling or using meth or people shooting people, but neither gun laws nor drug laws enforced on law-abiding citizens have thwarted gun violence or the making, selling or use of illicit drugs. Those laws are inconvenient to those of us who do abide by the law and hinder our rights (we did not always have to have photo ID to purchase medicine or guns), just like requiring an ID to vote is inconvenient to people who have no ID (what if they don't have easy access to get ID, etc). The People require ID by law for many reasons, some of them Rights, some of them privileges.

The Rights vs. privileges doesn't work as an argument against Voter ID--that was my point. Now you have shifted to the public safety standard as a new measure to determine when "rights" should be hindered, which is something entirely different. You assume it is the obligation of the government to violate a right of the individual when in the interest of public safety.

So you ask "is someone showing up to vote a matter of public safety?" That depends on ones understanding of public safety, actually. In itself, no, someone showing up to vote isn't a matter of public safety, much like someone buying decongestant for legal reasons or buying a gun for legal reasons isn't a matter of public safety. The laws concerning drugs and guns sometimes stop people who have no intention of violating the laws or disrupting public safety from accessing what would otherwise be their right, so there is nothing wrong with a voter ID law stopping someone without an ID from voting. Furthermore the laws concerning drugs and guns sometimes do not stop people who have every intention of violating the law and disrupting public safety from access to guns and drugs (and personal batches of meth are made or sudafed is purchased by multiple legal buyers and sold to drug makers at huge profits or guns purchased legally are used in horrendous crimes or guns trafficked by our own government are watched being sold to known criminals), so the idea that these laws that hinder rights actually assure public safety is questionable.

However just like The People don't want criminals making, selling and using drugs (and so we hinder the ability of law abiding citizens to access over the counter medications in the hope of thwarting criminals) or shooting people (so we hinder the ability of law abiding citizens to access guns in the hope of thwarting criminals) we also don't want (for instance) dead people miraculously voting from the grave, because it undermines the rights of the living and potentially changes the outcomes of elections. Now, the rights of the living are expressly held in this nation, and the non-living, whether they be the unborn or the dead, have no rights, so a dead person voting would be illegal no matter how one looks at it. Furthermore, it's impossible. Obviously, the dead individual did not go and vote of their own accord, which means someone else voted in their stead--a criminal acting against the interest of the public. When someone is showing up to vote in the place of someone they are not, whether that person is living or dead, it is a matter of public safety:

Since Bush v. Gore, the atmosphere surrounding public elections has been heated and even violent. We've had congressmen threatened (one shot!), we've had black panthers standing outside of polling places intimidating people, we've had countless court room battles costing the public millions of tax dollars, we've had countless rallies and protests (some of them ending in loss of life and limb and property). The right to vote and have that vote counted is sacred and is a matter of public safety.

Ah, give this little boy a gold star for his ability to recite his Faux Snooze talking point just like a real human being rather than a wingnut Troll.

If you were talking about me, first, I'm a girl, and second, I don't watch Fox News (actually, don't even watch television), so... I guess you're nothing more than a liberal Troll, incapable of arguing a real point and instead resorting to belittling and name-calling like a bully on the playground. Congratulations, TC.

ROFL! Why is it, every-time you let a Republican know that YOU know he got his arguments from Faux news, they suddenly have never seen faux news or owned or watched TV?

This must be a new disclaimer they are telling them to use. Warning: If you get caught arguing Faux news points by a Liberal, just claim you don't watch Faux News.

Yeah, and the typical liberal bully response is "Every republican's a liar". I can't be being honest, because I had a valid argument, and you'd rather not respond to the valid argument, so you and your sort resort to bullying. You're such a great person. You should be proud. (By the way, your actions in this just prove how much of a public safety issue voting and elections have become--no one respects anyone anymore, no one believes anyone anymore, no one even fakes kindness anymore. We're in a bad state of mind, man.)

For the record, I swear, I don't watch Fox News and I don't even have cable or an antenna for my TV. I will gladly open my home to anyone who would like to come and see (and be bored from the lack of instant access to all the cool shows--just ask my kids, who watch plenty on Hulu, but only the free stuff, because I'm such a conservative cheapskate).

Now, get back on topic. Argue the points or don't bother typing.

Lu,

I contend that the laws regarding sudafed and gun purchases DO make a difference in the level of meth production and shootings. They certainly don't put them to an end, but they make a difference. You may consider them a hindrance to your rights, but they do not remove your right to purchase either if you are a law-abiding citizen. I shudder to imagine how bad things would be if everyone could buy as much sudafed and as many guns as they want, with no regard for their intentions or past actions.

I disagree with your take on the rights vs. privileges. Point us to a case - ANY case - where someone voted without an ID with the intent to injure or kill someone, or create a health hazard like meth in the process. I didn't shift the standard to public safety. The laws regarding drug and gun sales exist for the public safety, not to hinder your rights to purchase them.

The voter ID laws, however, ARE being passed for the purpose of hindering some people's right to vote, rather than for public safety. Turzai so much as admitted it. So your original comparison/complaint is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

When you claim that the black panthers stand outside polling places to intimidate people, I believe they are there to prevent intimidation. They are there to ensure that everyone is allowed to vote. And for every black panther out there, I'm sure there are three good ol' redneck boys trying to intimidate blacks and keep them from voting. The GOP in certain areas also has tried to direct people to incorrect locations and tell them incorrect election days in an effort to keep their votes from counting. It may become a matter of public safety when that intimidation occurs, but it's not a matter of public safety for the simple reason of someone casting a vote without an ID or what happens as a result of that vote.

Yes, the right to vote and have that vote counted is sacred. So why is the GOP trying to take that right away from so many? I have an ID, and it's no big deal to me to show to them, even though I shouldn't have to since I've been registered and voting for 30+ years. But there are millions, many elderly, without the means to get an ID, and as others point out, some are in situations where they can't get a birth certificate without an ID, and can't get an ID without their birth certificate. They are law abiding citizens and have been voting legally for years. You can't be serious if you think they should no longer be allowed to vote.

For all those who keep arguing the gun rights position, imagine this:

The Democratic-controlled Legislature in your state drafts and passes a new law that adds a requirement for anyone to possess a gun. You've owned a number of guns for years, did everything you needed to to legally obtain them under the original requirements, and haven't done anything wrong with them in all that time.

But now you must do more. And for reasons beyond your control, you cannot meet the standard established under the new law. The Democratic Governor signs it, and now you can no longer own, possess, or use a firearm legally.

Imagine the outcry, the fury. Nay, the resulting violence...

NOW do any of you on the right get the picture?

For all the incredibly ignorant wingnuts, step away from the FOX, and try educating yourself:

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voting_law_changes_in_2012

@Lu-1328381 I don't think all republicans lie, only the ones who speak. If they would stop telling lies, I would not think that.

Can this get through the court before Nov. 2012? This is offensive because people have to pay fees they may not have to exercise their right to vote.

Why, if someone voted in the past, they proved eligible then, but now they aren't. This is a case of there is not a single case of fraud, yet the folks purport that they know the people likely to "commit voter fraud" are those who vote against us.

So if there are virtually no cases of "in person" voter fraud, how do these people get away with repeating voter fraud voter fraud and how do they come up with the idea "they would vote against us"? Because they are preventing people they "think" would vote against them from voting against them. Hence

Republican Mike Turzai, Pennsylvania's House Majority Leader, boasted that the state's new voter-ID law, ostensibly about the integrity of the electoral process, "is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."

GOP can't win without suppressing legitimate voters. Everyone knows that and have known it since 1982.

And SSI benefits is a privilege. Voting is a right. Another red herring.

Interestingly, no disenfranchised person has been brought forward. Considering that estimates are 750,000 with no ID how hard can it bee to demonstrate your assertion?

You are obviously uninformed. The case being brought in state court names a number of voters who will be disenfranchised.

http://www.aclupa.org/legal/legaldocket/applewhiteetalvcommonwealt/voteridclients.htm

A) several cases od disenfrancised voter have been brought forward B)No case of voter fraud that would have been prevented by picture IDs has ever been recognized. Voter fraud such as denying citizens their vote or tossing out votes or posting threats such as arrests await voters who owe traffic fines or posting phony information about polling places and times , are far more evident than any fraud by individuals who already must have a registration card.

Thank you suek. Why only ten people, and have they been issued ID's by now?

Oh, bull$#!&. Every voter who votes has to register and then identify himself to the little old ladies who work at the polls while persons designated to watch things from both parties look on. They match you name with the registration and that's been enough to keep people from casting multiple votes for decades. And there's no evidence that it's failing now--aside, of course, from the incontrovertible "evidence" of the fact that the person occupying the White House is a Democrat, and one of the non-Caucasian persuasion to boot.

I find it fascinating that the party that is infuriated by government doing anything, anywhere, any time, the party that becomes apoplectic at the slightest hint that there ought to be some minimal standards of evidence of sanity and competence as a precondition to purchasing a gun, are so eager to pass laws to solve a problem that their own elected officials, when pressed, admits doesn't exist.

Nope, in this one instance, the mere possibility that somewhere someone might cast a fraudulent vote justifies the imposition of laws that won't actually stop someone who is determined to cast a fraudulent vote from doing so. Why is that, I wonder?

You have to present ID and have a background check to purchase a gun (A RIGHT--NOT A PRIVILEGE), so why should the same standard not be applied to voting? By the way, there have been plenty of cases of dead people miraculously voting from the grave, so to pretend that it's not in the best interest of everyone to require photo ID for the vote is foolish. Do all states have Voter Registration Cards? Why don't we make those have photos attached to them? The liberals get a big government endorsed program to stimulate the economy and can't complain about something that's being provided by the state as part of the program, and the conservatives get the IDs with photos, so that dead men can't vote anymore. It's a win/win.

If this were truly about the "integrity of the vote," these requirements would be rolled out over several years, with the state picking up the tab for any documentation necessary. People would have plenty of time to comply. Part of the effort would involve not only advertising but personal outreach to ensure that every voter is identified and supplied with the required ID.

The fact that these voter ID laws were hurriedly rushed through Republican-controlled legislatures with short time lines should be enough for any sensible person to see the true intent of the legislation.

If it is such a big deal, to verify voters, and since you crazy people obviously think that the way it's been done for years now is not working even though you have no proof of that, then why can I still get a write in ballot? Is the postal carrier going to verify my ID when I mail my ballot in?

You have to present ID and have a background check to purchase a gun (A RIGHT--NOT A PRIVILEGE), so why should the same standard not be applied to voting?

Because nobody in the history of this great nation has ever lost their mind and proceeded to grab a ballot and shoot someone else with it.

The most cases of voter ID fraud is against Republicans. That's a fact. Again for the Fox-educated ignoramuses bringing their poo flinging act of FoxTalkingPoints, you can educate yourself here:

http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/voting_law_changes_in_2012

Have fun.

Lu: those dead people voting? Yeah, turns out, not so much. The reason it looked like that is due to poll-worker error: John Smith shows up to vote and they find him in their book, have him sign in and off he goes; but they had him sign the *wrong* *line* that just happened to be the dead John Smith.

Lu- in my photo I.D. I have different hair than now. Are poll workers going to disallow my vote (hand me a provisional ballot which probably won't count) and are they going to have volunteers that yell "Democrat", then someone comes over and says show me your I.D., that's not you.

But it's me. But I don't live in a state that is doing the voter I.D.

I also have a common name.

Sorry, but the Republicans are too busy re-voting on the healthcare reform bill to bother dealing with other things like Jobs, the economy, or guns. Please try again after some of them get voted out of office.

It's quite easy to do both. In the case of the latter, you can get them from Eric Holder, if you're a drug dealer....ooops.....freelance pharmacutical distributor.

lucky for you there's no penalty for lying in a comment

Steve: thanks so much for taking time today for our daily demonstration of how stupid someone has to be to flunk the IQ test low enough to be a wingnut Republican.

To be fair, they probably can't win unless they rig the elction.

@terriels Let hope not, because living in a Republican majority is a terrifying thought.

the only voter fraud is when repukes know they cant win without rigging the elections like in the case of Bush becoming our most disgraceful president of all time just in front of Ronald Reagan

The "voter fraud" issue is a misdirection play on the part of Republicans. It is intended to distract people from the bigger issue of election fraud, at which Republicans have become expert over the last decade or so.

Election fraud involves removing legitimate voters from the rolls (done in the name of "updating" the voter lists), mis-programming electronic voting machines, putting insufficient numbers of voting machines in areas with heavy poor and/or minority populations, limiting voter registration, instituting needlessly rigorous voting requirements, and intentional miscounting of votes by partisan officials.

This is great for Republicans. Not so great for democracy.

ROFL! When all else fails! Despite the fact that they have admitted in writing that there is really no voter fraud, there is voter fraud. The voter fraud hidden by democrats! Democrats are also known to have weapons of mass destruction under their beds!

Thank you Baba for demonstrating that little Trolls living in mommy's basement can recite their Faux Snooze talking points just like a real human being.

You ever notice the wingnuts never have any supporting evidence? On anything? Same here. Just evidence-free assertions. What a surprise.

So is this the Curly who is always getting his head whopped in Three Stooges comedies? It would go a long way in explaining how your brain damage was sufficient to allow you to flunk the IQ test low enough to be a Republican. but thanks again for our daily reminder of what morons you members of the species Homo Sap are.

I have no problem with bias. As long as it is formed by evidence, reason, and a fair accounting of context. After that it's time to be biased and to keep only fair in "fair and balanced."

That's why Curly is wrong. There is no voter fraud, or the Republicans would be able to point it out. And since there is no voter fraud, it is the Republican burden to defend their attempts to suppress a Constitutional right: voting.

They can't.

Nobody is advocating voting by non-citizens. The issue is: I've already given my proof back when I registered and voted the very first time. I go to the poll, sign in, the make sure my signature matches my last signature, then point me to the voting machine.

By requiring brand spanking new Voter ID cards, you've created a financial burden on folks: yeah, the *card* is free [unless you already have a DL, then if you want a Voter ID card you have to pay for it!] but getting all the supporting documentation isn't. And may not even be possible for some folks. Then there's getting to the DMV at a time when the DMV is open.

all that proves is that 19% of people who had not voted previously voted in that election.

Sorry BabaOreally,

Your ignorance is showing. No, it is not evidence of fraud. WI has election day registration. Go to the polling place, show ID, register to vote, vote. Turn out over 100%, no fraud involved.

Baskaborr, interesting statement....not about the percentage though:

WI has election day registration. Go to the polling place, show ID, register to vote, vote.

Just find it ironically amusing is this thread about voter ID.

Let's say Baba's (incorrect) assertion of voter fraud in WI were correct and there was voter fraud. Hmmm...who won that election? And was it because of - gasp - voter fraud?

Not all states require voter ID WITH PICTURE. So, those of you who think there is only one form of ID that a voter/citizen can show to prove citizenship are mistaken...except of course in those states which now claim their state's ID to be the only valid form of ID for voting.

Volunteer checks my signature every time I show up to vote.

I don't need an ID.

My voter registration card doesn't have a picture, and now, that's considered an invalid form of ID to vote, so...exactly how did I get that voter registration card to begin with?

By verifying I was eligible to vote, which is why I DON'T NEED A DAMN ID to vote with.

Apply the new law to newly registered voters, I can agree with that, if you're so damn scared. For the rest of us that have voted legally for decades, leave us the hell alone.

Cheese-n-rice, you Voter Fraud Alarmists are just wrong on this.

That's a very good point! Where are the public-serving Republicans who will help people get their IDs?

Our old voting system has worked fine for decades. This is part of the radical right wing. I miss real Republicans.

And in fact, the real problem is non-verifiable electronic voting machines. A "recount" just means looking at the screen a second time, seeing the same result. A result that has been shown to only weakly secure such that it can be hacked before the machine even starts counting.

So why are there no R's yelling about this...?

In order to get the proper documents to prove you can get the ID, (even though you've been a registered voter, and have voted for years) you WILL HAVE TO PAY for them.

The State does not provide the documents (birth certificates/marrriage licenses) gratis. Not everyone can afford the fees. Not everyone can get to a local office that issues ID's because the hours are limited and the distance is great. There's a backlog in requests for documents, you name it. The state passed this law and placed the burden on the voter...who has already been registered and voting FOR YEARS.

It's a poll tax for the 21st century.

first of all, spiris, I think it has been pretty well proven that voter fraud only exists in the minds of paranoid, right wing extremists. Secondly, democrats do not "want to allow everyone to vote regardless of citizenship". We simply want a guarantee of our constitutionally granted right to vote. Voter suppression laws deny legal citizens their rights. There are many reasons that disenfranchised voters cannot get ID, as stated in previous comments, but which I can reiterate. a: people who don't have a car and can't get to Motor Vehicle to get an ID (I can relate to that) b:people who work during the hours of DMV operation and can't get there. c: Elderly who have to rely on others to get them to the DMV d: Elderly who were born at a time of home births and have no birth certificate. I could go on, but you get the point. Well, actually, I doubt you get the point because Glenn Beck or one of the Faux News spin doctors isn't making it.

As to election theft, really? I am trying hard to stop laughing as I read that. The only election theft I remember was George W. Bush stealing not one but two elections. Selective memory much?

And, please, provide evidence of all those laws The Obama administration chooses to ignore? And Fox News comments don't count. Otherwise, stop parroting talking heads and learn to think for yourself.

YEAH! Cause it's not like illegals can get FAKE ID's! A-dur.

You members of the species Homo Sap are really working overtime today, demonstrating that computers are so user-friendly that the hairless biped on the planet that lacks frontal lobes and opposable thumbs can use them jut like a real human being. Time to get back in your cardboard box under the bridge, Troll.

I don't need ID to see my doctor, just my insurance info. Many elderly are not interested in buying liquor or cigarettes, or someone else (a caregiver) buy them. They are not interested in a loan or a credit card (fixed income). Many cannot drive themselves and cannot get around very well. Many have POA's, are hooked up to O2, or have walkers, wheel chairs or even bedridden. How are they supposed to go and get an ID?

Please tell us about the voter fraud at the WI recall election.

There is so much here lets see chances are if you hooked to an O2 machine and are bed ridden your not voting but ok. I would assume if your elderly you should have either a state ID or drivers license which are both acceptable forms so im not sure where your going with that either. Now if they just dont have a car then that's simple they have the ID mailed to them or they have their caregiver take them to go get it. If the caregiver is going to take them to vote there is no reason they cant take them to get an id.

As for the voter Fraud here we found out that many of the signatures submitted to start the recall where doubles, some people got caught for forging their neighbors name on the petitions themselves. On the actual election day since WI struck down voter ID laws you needed nothing other then a name to vote with no verification of who you are at all and yes that of course brought claims of fraud. This also made Dems here complain about redistricting as that was "unfair" because people wouldn't be able to figure out where to vote even though if your district moved all you had to do was show ID and a bill in your name and they could give you your new district as i had to do this year when i voted in the recall election.

It must be nice to live in that box you live in, that doesn't allow you to perceive the plights of others. Where no one is poor or old or struggling through life. Where everyone has access to the documents they need (free of charge), and they all have cars that come with free gas and can legally drive, and don't have jobs that keep them at work during government office business hours, and everyone sh*ts rainbows and unicorns.

Let's see, Joshua, counting all your posts on this page and the ones on page 2, you definitely are a Troll. But thanks once again for your many public celebrations of ignorance and stupidity today. It's always good to be reminded of the real effort it takes to flunk the IQ test low enough to become a Ditto Head with Limpdick.

Tc you posted more than me and in shorter time hence you would be the troll

As for l6313 you do realize the IDs are free, can be mailed to you and can be done through the internet right? Based on your points i would say no but now you know so you can understand how silly this article/argument really is.

I know you are but what am I!?

Mmmhum...sure they are...it doesn't cost money to get the documents you need to GET the ID. If what you say was true (it's not), then what is the point in asking for an ID to vote in the first place? You can't be fraudulent in getting a "FREE" ID through the internet...nope...no possibility of fraud there. I know how silly you trolls are for sure.

And if I want a *Voter* ID, I have to pay for it if I already have a DL.

I would have to order my birth certificate, go the SS office to get a new SS card and heaven forbid if the utilities are in my husbands name.

We had voting issues with Diebold in Ohio, where was the grave concern again, exactly?? Yeah, I thought so.. This argument is precept, clownish and unsubstantiated.

Why are you so fixated on the fact that illegals will vote if these I.D. laws are not implemented? Where is the proof to back up all these votes from illegals? That just doesn't make sense. If they are here illegally, why would they risk exposing themselves so they can vote.

Bill's just busy following orders today to get out there and make his weekly demonstration of what kind of stupidity it takes to flunk the IQ test low enough to be a Republican. Now, if he'd only put the same effort into becoming a "good" Republican, he could really do his bit to beautify America.

The IDs are FREE so please come up with a logical reason why a legal citizen could not get a FREE id. You need an ID for several other everyday functions and nobody complains why should this be any different. It isn't suppression when the offer is there for free if you can prove you are an american which anyone with a birth certificate can do. Stop making this out to more than what it is IE: Dems want everyone regardless of status/legal/illegal to vote, Repubs want legal citizens to vote and show they are who they claim to be. Its not that hard to figure the dems cater to illegals then cause an uproar over voter IDs gee i wonder why that would be?

Wow, Joshua, you really can recite your Faux Snooze talking points the same on multiple posts. I guess the brain damage didn't harm the recitation cells, eh?

I guess saying the same thing post after post doesn't hurt either? Troll much

To anyone who thinks that Joshua has a point--

I seriously doubt that one can simply order one of these FREE Voter ID Cards over the Internet. [Here I will assume that he lives in PA and means PA cards are free.]

How can you show a Birth Certificate over the Internet? How can you prove you are a citizen and also not a felon on the Internet? How can the Gov. agency KNOW that a picture that you sent them is you?

But, yes the Gov. agency could mail one to you, if the above problems are somehow resolved.

BTW-- maybe the way to deal with Trolls is to talk loudly to the audience that might think the Troll is making sense and prove that he is not making sense. But, avoid talking to him.

My goodness, I did not know that the word internet needed to be capitalized.

Fair enough. Just prove to us who you are, we have to do that to exercise our 2nd amendment rights, don't we?

I don't know...do you have to show photo ID at a gun show to buy a gun? And by the way, "Just prove to us who you are," who is this "us"?

Baba; no you don't. The shooter in Aurora, CO got mass quantities of guns and ammo he used to kill 12 people over the internet without showing any ID.

Why don't you clownish trolls just admit the real purpose of the voter ID laws and move along.

Nice tin foil hat.

Curly can't help the fact he's actually a member of the species Homo Sap.

Nice rant there curly. BTW, it's hole, not whole. At least you called it the Democratic Party rather than democrat party. You're still a tool though.

What are you talking about states have been doing Voter ID laws for several months if not longer and Repubs are not waiting for this election as you claim this has been ongoing as more problems have occurred. While Driver IDs may not sort out all the fraud it is a start, personally i think driver ID and another form of identification would be better for that extra step of protection but hey.

What do you suggest then as sure proof, then, eyeballs?

AND, if biometrics were the only way to insure an honest ballot, I could support that.

AND, its the Democrats who have been rigging the ballot for generations. I personally know of an old man, now deceased, who coordinated this b.s. in Chicago.

Wow, Joshua and Baba can even fly in formation and recite their Faux Snooze points in chorus.

There is nothing hard about getting a free ID if you are a legal citizen. stop blowing this out of proportion this is just typical LA times spin. There is no discrimination here free for me is free for you all you need is to prove residency and there is no reason a person should not be able to provide that.

There is nothing hard about getting a free id if you have internet access, a job you can just up and leave for a few hours without consequences, forty or fifty bucks to spend on transportation and fees, and the physical ability to stand in line for a couple of hours.

Steve i hope your joking....You can have the ID mailed to your house so no you dont need to pay for transportation or wait in line it is completely free and really hassle free as well. No reason to leave your job if you got int at home if not thats why there are libraries stop making excuses.

Wow, Joshua, TWELVE replies just on this page! You must be one of the long-term unemployables that Limpdick thinks aren't experiencing enough pain to make them go work. Either that or middle school is out of session and you have time to kill on mommy's computer today.

Nope actually i am at work right now but i enjoy showing just how ignorant your side can be. I really enjoy arguing with trolls who post 10-15 post in less than an hour mostly saying the same thing

You know the wingnuts are getting nervous about one of their pet issues when they spend all day trolling. Sorry wingnuts, when you want to take away a Constitutional right to millions of people, it's YOUR burden to justify it. To wit, you must:

- show there is voter fraud to the extent it requires the blunt instrument solutions you suggest,

- make it the state's responsibility to ensure that each legitimate citizen has the required proof that is demanded to vote. Voting is a Constitutional right.

If you can't do that, you have lost the right to implement your solution to a non-problem.

Your prejudices are showing. Not everyone who supports these ID requirements is a "white republican", not by a long stretch.

Wow Steve racist much? The sheer stupidity of all your points can be eliminated by the fact that you can have the FREE id MAILED to your house thereby eliminating travel time, the need to take off work, the need for a car and the need to stand in line. Nobody is bring up the race card here except for you which is a constant defense for the Dems over the last last 3.5yrs but is completely invalid here

Steve ... Garry Trudeau apparently agrees with you. His "Doonesbury" comic strips this week are all about voter suppression and the return of Jim Crow. He's taking dead aim on "voter ID" laws. Today: Alabama.

Josh, post proof that you can have a FREE ID MAILED to you, because I'd really like to know about it.

Also: it costs money to get a copy of your birth certificate, which would be needed for that FREE ID you go on about. Is getting a copy of your birth certificate FREE as well?

And race IS factor in this new poll tax:

http://www.wearepowershift.org/blogs/voter-id-laws-disenfranchise-minorities-young-old-and-low-income-voters-0

Yeah, funny how people who do things that just so happen by the most remarkable coincidence to disproportionately disadvantage nonwhites are not the one to bring up race.

And that "free i.d. by mail" thing you keep going on and on about? It's just so self-evidently ridiculous that only someone who believes what they read in emails that end with "Send this to everybody you know!" could believe it.

If you have a citation to the statutes of a single one of the states that have passed one of these things that proves me wrong, cite it.

Hahahahahahahaha...

Yeah, wingnuts!! Steve is the racist here. Sure thing. Because you just know there are hordes of minorities that are behind these voter fraud charges and voter ID laws.

C'mon, man. Quit being so transparent with your stupid arguments.

Does ANYONE have any evidence in Pennsylvania of voter fraud being perpetrated by "those that would vote against us"? AND how do they draw the conclusion that "they" would vote against "us"?

According to the following link, being ignored is worse than anything, so I guess that's why we should ignore this, but to just to show what they are doing. Just recognize the domination "plan" the Republicans are selling, even being obnoxious is fair play according to the revealing link shown (exposed) (how to act and change minds to achieve "DOMINION") by oncearepublican http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/FreeCongressEssay.html