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When President Obama's critics on the right accuse him of constitutional excesses they consider "outrageous," I tend to ask a simple question: did these same critics express any concerns at all when Dick Cheney said the Office of the Vice President isn't part of the executive branch? If not, I'm inclined to take their cries less seriously.
Similarly, when conservatives say they're incensed about leaks related to national security, I tend to ask another simple question: were they at all bothered by the Valarie Plame scandal?
Yesterday, Mitt Romney based a large portion of his VFW speech, ostensibly about his foreign policy vision, to complaining about leaks. The Republican candidate called the leaks "contemptible," adding, "It betrays our national interest. It compromises our men and women in the field. And it demands a full and prompt investigation by a special counsel, with explanation and consequence."
And yet, five years ago, Romney defended Scooter Libby, and condemned the investigation into the Plame leak as a "political vendetta." And this year, the connection is even more dramatic.
Shortly after the candidate's speech in Reno, Nevada, the Romney campaign sent out a press release citing former Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Eric Edelman, who is listed as a Romney campaign advisor.... Edelman, however, was implicated in the country's last major national security leak investigation -- the outing of CIA agent Valeria Plame -- during his time in the Bush administration.
Edelman served under former Vice President Dick Cheney in the 1990s. From February 2001 to June 2003, he worked as Principal Deputy Assistant to the Vice President for National Security Affairs, where he served directly under former Cheney aide Scooter Libby. According to the Justice Department, Edelman, identified as "Principal Deputy" in Scooter Libby's indictment, originally suggested the idea to Libby to start leaking information about Joe Wilson's trip to Niger.
Making matters slightly worse, Richard Hohlt, a lobbyist bundler for Romney, was described as a "go-between" in the outing of Plame.
What was that Romney was saying about "contemptible" betrayals that compromise our security?
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And outing Plame really did compromise our security because she headed the branch that was keeping tabs on nuclear weapon development in the Middle East. It wasn't as if she were involved in something superfluous.
Ditto.
I'm convinced all the leaks involving NSA and CIA also involve Bachmann, who sits on the intelligence committee that has access to all of the leaked information.
The only leaks anyone has been able to prove came from Republicans.
My favorite part is how absolutely determined Ms Plame was, to defend her identity in the face of insurmountable odds, torture of the worst sort, and assault on her virtue...
I agree with you CA. The woman can't keep her mouth shut.
Plame was a nobody who sought, with her nobody husband, celebrity (15 minutes). What the Obama leakers have done is far more serious to national security
Considering Libby wasn't the actualy "leak". He was the scapegoat served up on the alter. But that's if we put it in perspective that's one fairly low level leak compared to what?
Always nice to have one of you droolers come along and demonstrate the degree of effort it takes to flunk the IQ test low enough to be one of you morons.
I'll bet your snake would bite you were you ignorant enough to play with it in your "church."
Yes, compared to what? Are we supposed to read your mind.
Why aren't you just a charmer. Quit drinking the coolaid, it's starting to sour your disposition. Robert Novak of the Washington Post was the one who outted her ... and it didn't come from Libby. The point is it cute to bring up one low level incident (in 8 years) compared to how many so far by das Administration?
Looks like you and Tom(not from Seattle) have the same talking point on that one. Just a coincidence, I'm sure.
Nope sorry I'm not on anyones talking points lists. I'd just like to make sure if they are going to try to obfuscate then they can at least get the peripheral information correct.
Democrats are guilty of "leaks" that "jeopardize national security." Republicans make strategic decisions to release information so that "traitors" are spotlighted, thus weeding out those who would "threaten our security," and making us safer.
I don't understand why those on the left can't see this. (/sarcasm off)
As everybody knows, IOKIYAR!
Go read "Drift", particularly the part about Ray-Gun's crimes in Iran-Contra, and pay close attention to the names of the traitors, all of whom are still "stars" in the Republican firmament. They have ALWAYS been this way. They really are That Bad.
I have no intention to read "Drift". Such dribble bores me, as does Maddow on her rants I only watch so I can see the senseless comments on this blog
You must have a lot of spare time. Have you ever considered taking up a hobby like knitting?
Robert Novak outted Valerie Plame. Scooter Libby was charged with perjury, obstruction and false statements. None of which are charges related to outing Plame. Oh facts, how you ruin a good story.
How did Novak know who Plame was?
I assume Richard Armitage said it to Bob Woodward. Woodward testified it was an "offhand" comment.
It was Richard Armitage to Robert Novak
Since the question still is unanswered by you or Tom (not from Seattle, I'll ask it again:
How did Novak know who Plame was?
Without any proof to the contrary my point stands. Your assumption that I need someone to use Google for me is also false.
Ok... one more time. An I'll type REAL SLOW so you can follow.....
Robert Novak learned of the information from Richard Armitage who if memory serves was working with the State Dept. at the time.
So now, you assume. Got it. I don't understand how a journalist could get that kind of classified information. I assume that he would not have the clearance. But, that's just me.
You guys sure you're not former Bush administration officials?
So, someone from GW Bush's State Dept. leaked it to Novak, right? That's what you're saying? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Tom, read your comments. You are the only one who made an assumption, sir.
Rollo - I never said it wasn't. But I would at least like to get the facts straight and the fact is it didnt' come directly out of the Bush wh...
You can read for yourself that Richard Armitage was the internal source of the leak. I ASSUMED Armitage said it to Woodward first because I do not know the validity of that. Yes, I was in the Bush Administration and now I waste my time reading Steve Benen.
David James-5535467:
Wow. Is the State Dept. now it's own branch of Government? The Sec. of State is appointed be the President. Did I really need to tell you this? It is all part of the White House/Executive Branch. Is Obama not responsible for anything that occurs at State, Defense, etc?
Come on
Why did Former President Bush use his Executive Privilege to Conceal from Congress Cheney’s FBI interview about Valerie Plame’s outing,
I congratulate Tom for making a positive change in his life. Good going, Tom.
And who says that someone in the administration is leaking the info? I actually vote fro Michelle Bachmann. She's on the House Intelligence Committee and she's slipped up before.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/11/did-michele-bachmann-leak-classified-intelligence-during-gop-debate/248987/
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/micheles-mendacity-national-security-editio
Can you imagine Mitt having the ability and responsibility for our nuclear arsenal?
Oh come on. Did we actually think George Bush had that ability? It was the Cheney! And if Mitt doesn't add Cheney to his cabinet outright, you know he'ill be lurking.
Romney will continue to be an empty headed blow-hard. He is a moderate who allowed the right wing to control him. If he gets in office, he will be controlled by others. If he has a spine, we should see it by now. He doesn't.
Mitt will hang out at the country club if elected. He's not going to actually do anything. Let's say it again: Romney = Bush. Deja vu all over again.
It's all been said before, these people are just doing what they always do.
Pull very bad stunts and deals, shoot their mouths off for political points. EVEN when lives are risked and act all outraged when we say you guys are the worst kind of leakers, then clown around about bombing Iran and calling countries axis of evil. Acting on real intelligence gathered not gathering up false bits to make it fit a desired action is what we need.
I can easily see Rmoney doing what neocons say they want done. That is outrageous and they will do anything, including outing active undercover CIA personnel. I do not think Americans want to have neocons in charge of foreign policy again.
Sandy,
Good points, but do you think what happened with the current administration was a mistake? Why do you think the informtion was leaked? I tend to think it was a little similar....for political points. You say the Republicans are the "worst kind of leakers"..well to me I don't care which leaker is worst, they are all wrong.
The story is about the lack of outrage by conservatives/Republicans when Valerie Plame, wife of Joe Wilson (who apparently was the intended target to threaten him to comply with the false intelligence) who said it was not true that Niger was sending yellow cake to Iraq- the whole basis of the (false) war.
I call that pretty g.d. awful! And not a peep from conservatives, NOR Republicans?
I hope this better explains my sense of outrage over the Plame/Wilson b.s. because perhaps the war (as I originally said and still say) would not have happened, but for all the concoctions and attempts to bully the people that were telling the truth, getting at the truth and not LYING about WMD.
I'm not falling for your stuff to say look at that over there. Maybe you really feel you are doing something for your own integrity, but I am choosing a side and not going to attempt to get a whole new slate. It won't work. We saw when you add a third party, divide and toss up, then you have even more people saying "I didn't vote for that". If we had some kind of real parliamentary type of government, it might work out, but we don't. I don't live in Vermont, where Independence works for them. But Bernie Sanders can choose a side, and it is generally not the right.
We hear they're all bad so just don't bother voting or vote for the third party. We don't see that as viable. I'm not going to say hell with them all because my view is Republicans are open to lying to go to war, lying about so many things, desire to do nothing for jobs in order to win an election, tossing out U.S. workers and risk taking to make money, exposing active CIA agents to silence an opponent, scathing horrendous behavior affecting so many Americans. I have to vote AGAINST that. I can do that with very few regrets.
The outing of Plame was a breach and the current leaks are breaches. They both should not have happened. A lot of the comments here are now just bringing up what happened in the past - yes that was wrong - but it seems that some here are saying "well they had leaks too!" OK, they were idiots to leak Plames name. Does that justify the leaks now? I think not. I really don't care if some Republicans are being hypocritical...they are just playing politics like most politicians do now. Both cases of leaks is/was wrong. It seems that a lot of the posts here are deflecting this discussion back to who leaked Plames name and not who leaked the current info.
Rachel before the election please talk about the LDS religion a bit more and let others (Bill Maher,Ed show) know what is going on. As a transplant form Az 25 years ago i felt like i was steppiong back in time.Does America know that until about 1980 Mormons did not allow black to hold certain positions in the church. Funny how the LDS president's revelation came around same time as Utah Jazz (OMG blacks have money).Still they cannot go as high as whites in the church. as a 58 yr old white woman i find their commercials with blacks obviously made for those who know nothing about Mormons. In boy scouts my son was ostrasized for not being mormon. In public school my 7 yr old daughter was not allowed to wear sleeveless.(also another part of their religion)This is a church run state and if romney gets in it will be a church run county. of course this info may help the rich white guys because racism is aplenty in this county, however americans need to know. the lds church started a few yrs ago bombarding with commercials of how normal and everyday and every race they are. this is not a true statement. thank you and excuse my spelling and punctuation i'm just trying to get this out to you. I love your show but my hours dont allow me to always see it so my son keeps me posted. Thank you.Please let me know if you get this and if you could pass the word on about this fiasco happening.These are the ideas embedded into romney these are his beliefs this is what they teach, I am better than you. Did you know the more money you have the higher you get into heaven. YES they truly teach that with 7 levels of heaven you can buy your way in. I know this sounds ridiculous but it is why they have a pod people look about them.Thanks Rachel
Oops...I take back my last sentence from my post above:
It seems that a lot of the posts here are deflecting this discussion back to who leaked Plames name and not who leaked the current info.
The article posted by Steve WAS about the Plame case in part. Still, neither case should have happened. And in both I think it was partisan.
Do you actually know what happened, yet? Or are you going by what you've heard.
Are you on the intelligence committee? Even Feinstein said that she was specualting. But, you are certain?
Sen. Feinstein issued a statement Tuesday explaining that her remarks to the World Affairs Council on Monday were inappropriate and purely speculative.
Rollo,
What is this whole thread for now? I know no more than everyone else, but the Senate committee AND the Justice Department is investigating something and as the quote you used above from the Senator also alludes to that :
So it does look like something happened. The speculation is on who leaked it (I don't think it was the Presiden either). I do not understand you defensiveness. I think most people here will agree there was a leak. What are you going on Rollo. Are you saying nothing happened although there is a committee and a Justice Department investigation going on?
I think you just don't like anything I say :). You did the same thing last night when you questioned my knowledge and intelligence experience. Not sure if you saw my response last night, but first I obviously do not have first hand knowledge of the current event...but I DO have some intelligence expericence having served 14 years in the Navy with the last 8 in Naval Intelligence.
I'm saying that I don't know and neither do you. I am saying that what I've heard does not constitute what I call a "leak".
I'm also saying that if you're honest you'd admit that most of this committee investigations are political. And the Republicans know that their candidate is at a huge disadvantage on foreign policy. And they hope to take that advantage away by bringing up what they call a "leak" investigation every time the topic of foriegn policy comes up. They don't know what to do when a Democratic President has an advantage on what they think is their specialty.
That's a political tactic and not a real interest in finding out about "leaks". I personal believe leaks occur from committee members. And I know one instance for a fact: Pete Hosktra.
Hoekstra told the Washington Post this week that Maj. Nidal M. Hasan had e-mail conversations with a radical Yemeni cleric, Anwar al-Aulaqi.
That tipped off the cleric that emails were being monitored. That is what I call a leak.
His leak has yet to be investigated years later. This is politics.
If you don't see this, you're being disingenuous. You think something happened because that's what you want to believe.
Rollo,
You do know that Senator Feinstein is a Democrat and was the head of that committee and Eric Holder (an Obama appointee) is in charge of the Justice department that is investigating the leaks - which are actual since we all know about the computer virus sent to the Iranian computers? Talk about being disingenuous. I only thought the right wingers were the ones that put their heads in the sand.
Who is saying that here?
Well, that is what Steve's article is about. Deflecting implies that the Plame thing was off topic. It actually is the topic. Sounds like deflection projection by you, Skip.
So who is responsible for the current set of leaks?
Apparently not the White House according to your standards.
And what has been leaked? Stories after the fact of the Bin Laden raid? Stories about Obama having a kill list?
I find it sick that conservatives and phony independents like Skip Hoffman think that the President OKaying a kill list is a political winner.
It tells you something about their warped, twisted minds.
I was thinking more about the information that a virus/trojan etc was used to disable Iranian nuclear centrifuges. The rest was just bubble gum fluff for the most part.
Kinda like the minds that believe in never letting a good disaster go to waste....
David James-5535467:
IOKIYAR. Just say it.
Lol! That's not the same at all. You need to take a break. You seem to be running on fumes right now.
The point it's obfuscation and misdirection. This from the administration that promised transparency is yet another reason I'll be glad to see Obama go. I'll be glad to see him get his eviction notice in November.
You've got a point on this one. The lives that were endangered by the knowledge of this information being revealed, is not acceptable. We can't endanger our fine intelligence agents while their risking their lives for our country.
How so? Elaborate please. You're out of material, aren't you?
David,
Rollo obviously is part of some defensive team to squelch any negative vibes againt the Obama administration. But he is right about my "deflection" comment which I quickly thought I corrected with another post - it did not show up here. Well I do stand corrected now Rollo...I was wrong this article IS about the Plame case. :)
I do agree with you David about the leak about the computer virus too.
Well considering the WH is being accused of leaks, oh wait what about Plame? The AG is about to be held in contempt of congress; It's just more racist hate mongering I tell ya! Out come the talking heads to deflect the issue.
And all of this coming from an administration that promised transparency in it's dealings with the American people. In this instance most of the leaks aren't a big deal, but some sensitive/critical information could have been put in the wind. I don't have skip hoffman's experience in intel but my time in the Navy taught me not to put things out there because you didn't know the concequences......
I'll participate in a real discussion, but you're going into the silly RWer zone right now.
You have a good day.
Time and time, the inconsistencies/hypocrisy of the Romney camp is being pointed out by Dr Maddow. But is anyone other than Democratic supporters reading/listening or being influenced ? From this side of the Atlantic it seems that its a "anyone but Obama" election. Someone please tell me that it is not so !
That's what the MSM needs you to believe. They need a horse race.
Obama leads Romney in 28 of the current national polls by and avg of 3.7%. Romney leads in only 4 of those polls. Obama leads in 21 and is tied in 3 polls.
In the battleground states and electoral college Obama is in better shape. But, the MSM has a narrative and they'll stick to it through Nov. 6th
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html#polls
That's a hoot! Cheney says the VP isn't part of the executive branch, but yet he had executive privilege? Well, the Iran-Contra fiasco showed the I'm rubber your glue gang they could get away with it. Same with the S & L. Look at the people involved and look where they are today.