Late last week, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) claimed he'd heard from a Bain Capital investor that Mitt Romney hadn't paid income taxes for 10 years. Republicans were livid -- Reid wouldn't identify a source, admitted he couldn't substantiate the claim; and wouldn't even say if he knew the rumor to be true.
On the Sunday shows, the discussion focused on little else. For Romney, this wasn't necessarily good news.
On the one hand, GOP voices were on the offensive, condemning Reid for passing along second-hand innuendo. Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus went so far as to call the Senate Majority Leader a "dirty liar."
And on the other hand, we saw Democrats also on the offensive, asking why Romney doesn't just release his tax returns.
In this clip, former Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland (D) told CBS, "Mr. Romney could give us the proof that he has paid taxes consistently. The fact is, Bob, Mitt Romney wants the American people to trust him with the presidency, but he won't trust us with his tax returns. All he has to do is release his tax returns. The question that I think is this: why is Mitt Romney refusing to give us his tax returns? The people want to know why he has his tax returns, Bob, he gave them to John McCain for, I think, 23 years. Why is he now, since he's seeking the presidency, saying to the American people, 'you don't deserve to see my tax returns'? That's a legitimate question in the minds of the American people."
Strickland was one of many to make the same case. Indeed, it wasn't just Democrats -- former Reagan/Bush campaign chairman and Republican strategist Ed Rollins told Fox Romney should disclose more. "Two years is not enough, obviously," Rollins said.
I continue to think the right's underlying point about Reid has merit, even if they cede the high ground with ridiculous rhetoric like Priebus'. Whether I like the candidate in question or not, expecting presidential hopefuls to respond to every unsubstantiated rumor just isn't fair. (If Mitch McConnell announced this morning, "I heard from a secret source that Barack Obama once shot a man in Reno just to watch him die," I don't think the president would have a responsibility to prove otherwise.)
But I also think Romney has to release his tax returns.
The underlying GOP strategy here, at least at face value, makes some tactical sense -- if they can discredit Reid's accusation, they hope it will effectively end the demands for more disclosure. But the effort is ultimately silly. The need for scrutiny of Romney's tax returns was obvious long before Reid piped up last week, and is based on a series of legitimate questions, including controversies surrounding Romney's Bain background, offshore finances, controversial investments, unanswered questions about his individual retirement account that somehow ended up with more than $100 million, and claims about his business that contradict SEC filings.
What's more, we know the Republican candidate was willing to turn over 23 years of tax returns to John McCain's campaign team four years ago, but for reasons he won't explain, Romney doesn't want American voters to see what McCain saw.
And taking a step back, by even engaging Reid, and watching Romney punch down at the senator, Republicans are only helping keep the larger story alive -- Romney's secret tax returns remain the campaign story on the front burner, taking the focus away from everything else the GOP wants to talk about.
Put it this way: both sides were on the offensive over the weekend, but only one side is smiling.
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If there was nothing to hide in his taxes, Romney would have already released them. He will not release them, because he knows that there is at least one thing in them that the Dems can jump on and create a slew of "can you trust this guy" ads. He is in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, and all his campaign's flailing about isn't making the issue go away. I have never seen a Presidential candidate let himself be so defined by the other side since Kerry - we all know how that ended. One thing I have learned in my lifetime is to never trust someone who says "trust me" or "would I lie".
Bolbis: "He is in a damned if you do, damned if you don't "
"Governor Romney, have you stopped beating your wife?"
-Probably the oldest 'gotcha' type question in the book, and one that any politician has a ready answer for! (Mitt: Ralph Kramden's "humina humina humina" is the wrong response!)
And I, for one, am enjoying the Dems twisting the knife. It's about time they learned to play hardball.
Aim for the head. Go Harry!!!
Oh, that's a productive comment.
This reasoning is so predictable. It doesn't matter what's in Romney's tax returns, the Left just want to use it to paint Romney is a rich guy. Most of the accusation about tax rates and investments overseas, every rich person in Congress does EXACTLY the same thing.
People with money diversify. The minimize risk but having money in multiple investments not tied to one company, one industry, or even one country. It's smart.
Just how does it not matter exactly? And its easy to paint Romney as a rich guy simply because HE IS! And while there are extremely wealthy people in congress I would like to see your proof that there are some with off shore accounts that are primarily used for tax evasion purposes. I understand the need to diversify your funds to mitigate your risk of loss, but to say that all rich people do this with offshore accounts is just plan wrong...
He's not going to release them. I believe the Democrats should continue to press, but I don't think he's ever going to give them up. So if everyone's waiting for the chance to gloat over the truth, it's not going to happen.
I hope President Obama's campaign has considered this. They're not likely to get that holy grail.
RobDon, why don't you go beautify America and become a "good Republican"?
Fertilizer. Hahahaha...
RobDon I would like to see your proof that there are congress members that have offshore accounts...........
I'm sorry the "Aim for the head" comment offended the delicate sensibilities of the wilting wallflower false-equivalencist RobDon.
Ok, I'm not. I don't care.
You need to re-read my comment. I wasn't offended. I just pointed out you brought nothing productive to the conversation. Sorry if that offended you.
No one has any proof Romney used these accounts to evade taxes. There are other reasons, like attracting foreign investors as noted by the USA Today for these accounts.
As to the Democrats, several sources (mostly right leaning, documented Pelosi's and Shultz's offshore holdings mainly through a third party investment. I didn't hear them criticizing their investment choices.
I think Reid's accusation is perfectly acceptable. We have seen Swiftboating, demands for the "real" birth certificate, the accusation that Clinton killed Vince Foster. All of which are made up. Reid may actually have a source, but he has already said it is a rumor so let the Republicans rant.
Like Bolbis I don't trust someone who says "Trust Me". The old version of that is "F**k You"
Exactly right, madstork, and well said! It's about time someone took the offensive and used the GOP's same tactics on them. We've put up with it for long enough! Go Harry!
sorry, I just can't to the "oh yeah, but they did it too" defense. I wanna nail Romney's lies to the wall as much as anyone, but debasing our cause it not the answer. Reid's comments only fortified the notion that "they are all dirty".
Reid is yanking RobMe's chain and doing a very good job of it.
@Swerver: Nothing about this debases "our cause."
Bingo, you can just say "I heard from a guy, who heard from a co-worker, that knew a guy that Harry Reid has three nipples." Then on the House floor, I then say "word is getting around about Harry Reid's extra nipple", well because I am the one the word came from. Oh, and I no evidence, just "some guy" about the third nipple and I'm not naming him.
The lack of Irony is breathtaking .
The largest lie machine in the history of the universe calling out the Democrats as liars.
They are all clutching their pearls and swooning on the fainting couch.
We would never be so crass they tell us.
They obviously can't remember the bonehead who pulled the ultimate in crass when he shouted "You Lie !" in the state of the union address .
Yes Republicans , the video tape machine is here to remind you of Joe - You Lie Wilson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyTelRaoBAI
They don't have to go that far back.
Right sick-n-tired. It's time Republicans learned they're going to get punched in the mouth. The basturds have nearly destroyed the country and their failed ideas have brought the entire world's economic system close to breaking. Republicans need to be knocked out.
Well let's be clear here. Under the Rove Theory, because they have embarked upon the most pathologically dishonest political campaign in U.S. it was essential for them to be the first to actually use the "L" word, so as to neutralize any bad effect of their lying among the numbskull no-attention undecideds with a good ol' "both sides do it." And, for that reason, they probably think they did a major jujitsu throw here.
The problem (for them) is that they did it in a context where, rather than creating a "both sides lie" narrative, what they really did was create a "well, somebody's lying" narrative. And where one of those somebodies has it within his power to conclusively establish who's lying, and refuses to do it, even people who think election ads are informative are going to draw the correct inference about who the liar most likely is.
And, in that context, it is interesting to note that Romney has conspicuously failed to say either a) that he paid federal income taxes every year or b) that he paid a substantial amount of federal income tax each year. He's only said he paid "taxes."
Which I take as totally meaningless. With all of the unapologetic lying he's doing, I don't see him being Jesuitical about one that he has every reason to believe will never be proven, or even provable.
Well, as it happens, being jesuitical is pretty much the essence of the tax attorney's work.
Remember that in Republican Coocooland, Obama and his Chicago cronies are so nefarious that they're perfectly capable of breaking the law and getting the IRS to leak Romney's tax returns.
I don't need to show you people my returns. You people just need to trust me. It's our turn.
Wow, just wow. The arrogance.
If it wasn't Harry Reid somebody else would be putting pressure Mitt. In an ordinary democracy that somebody would be the press, but our press doesn't work that way anymore.
I believe they decided to use Harry because he is a fellow Mormon and from Utah .
Harry Reid Lie?
Why it's against his religion.
And you are so right ..the stenographers seem to show little interest in actually asking questions
Unless you mean his college days, you are only half right. Harry Reid is a Mormon, but he was born in Nevada and serves Nevada.
Truthfully nothing here any different then the "Show us your birth certificate". None of this focuses on what's REALLY wrong with the state that we're in. Why doesn't Obama and crew just stick to campaigning about solving the countries problems and not someone's tax returns, their wife's horse, or how much money he has or has made.
Seems to me that they're trying to avoid the REAL problems and more focused on mudslinging.
Because it has been proven (See: Kerry , John. 2004) that it doesn't win elections with the too stupid for democracy "merikan ' Public.
Playing buy the Republican rules Oh the Humanity!
The Democrats have put REAL solutions on the table, and every time the GOP has said "Hell no". The Obama campaign is smart to focus the issue on Romney, as the more the media is talking about Romney not releasing his tax returns, the less the spotlight is on them and the economy. The Obama campaign is just running a far superior operation (so far) than the Romney campaign, pure and simple.
I wish we could have a real discussion about real issues, but unfortunately that is not what gets put on the profit based news cycle. Rumors and "did you hear what X said" always carry the lead story in today's news for a reason - reality shows and celebrity gossip shows are prevalent because that is the drivel most Americans want to watch.
What mudslinging? Reid simply repeated gossip. Is that a crime? and since Mitt is absolutely unwilling to clear the matter up, we should be absolutely unwilling to give him the job of president.
By the way, your 'why don't they focus on the issues' question: read Ezra Klein today on the ENORMOUS POLICY GAP between Mitt and Obama. Obama has policy positions. Mitt: NOTHING, NADA, ZIP, BUPKES.
When Mitt's dad ran for president in 1968, he established the precedent of presidential candidates releasing several years worth of income tax returns. He did that because he understood that, as a guy who's main qualification for office was that he'd made a bunch of money, it was important for people to know both where the money came from and what, if anything, the candidate did to lower his tax bill.
And at more a fundamental level, George Romney did that because he understood that nothing is a better proxy of a person's character, and in particular a rich person's character, than how he regards his civic obligation to pay taxes. Does he do so, if not cheerfully and generously, at least ungrudgingly, or is he the kind of person who feels like it's okay to push the limits of the law to their breaking point and indulge in sketchy tax sheltering behavior.
If you honestly don't feel like that's important information, information that bears directly on the candidate's character, his attitude toward his civic responsibilities, how you evaluate the candidate's policy proposals, and whether, and in what way, you can trust him to implement them, well, "obtuse" is a marvelous word precisely because it can apply to both the actual condition and to feigning the condition.
Why doesn't Obama and crew just stick to campaigning about solving the countries problems and not someone's tax returns, their wife's horse, or how much money he has or has made.
1. Obama's people have no interest in Romney's horse.
2. They also have no interest in how much money he has made.
If you are attributing the interest in those issues to the Obama campaign, you are either ignorant or dishonest.
3. There is a reason that politicians are asked routinely to release their tax returns, and most politicians, especially Democrats are happy to oblige. It gives us important information about how they conduct their financial affairs and about how transparent they are willing to be about those affairs. When they refuse to release that information, that also tells us something important and it doesn't look good.
To add to this, that these men are having a public debate about just how our tax code should be structured, which, I think we can agree is certainly a politically relevant issue. I doubt it really needs to be explained why understanding a politician's personal interest in that debate might be relevant as to whether we want to vote for him. We find out those interests through tax returns.
This is nothing like mudslinging and nothing like the birth certificate issue (which I might add, Obama was happy to provide on request).
I think there's a fundamental difference here, Steve.
There's unsubstantiated rumors that are totally out of left field (e.g. your Reno hypothetical) that there's really no way for a candidate to take pre-emptive action against, because they come from totally unpredictable directions, and there are rumors that would have been pre-emptively dismissed if the candidate had done the minimum normally expected of a candidate.
It's pretty obvious which is which here, and putting such rumors on the same level is just plain wrong, as far as I'm concerned.
Democrats with uniform messaging...sigh...it's wonderful...
sigh...
Benen, you really should do a post pointing out how Rachel Maddow explained last week in 3 excellent segments that Willard tried this in 2002 - and was proven to be a liar, thus eliminating him getting ' the benefit of the doubt'.
First off, we're talking about Harry Reid, he's certainly not known as a gossip - actually he's known for being a straight shooter and someone willing to compromise! Two, Mittens habitual lying, flip-flopping on issues, and secrecy hasn't helped endear him to the GOTP - so the whole "trust me" argument isn't flying! Third, President Obama is into the 3rd year of his Presidency - and yet still the "birthers" are screaming for his "long-form birth certificate" that he's already released!
This FAUX righteous indignation that being promulgated by the right is just a bit too much in light of the fact that every other Presidential candidate by this point has already released years worth of tax information! The real issue is that while Rawmoney may not have paid 0% in taxes for all 10 years - he's probably has paid so little "legally" that it would definitely enrage those that just might vote for him and they would stay home.
Not only "promulgated by the right", but also parroted by the Personal Virtue crowd.
Mitt Romney says he paid taxes every year; did he pay U. S. taxes every year?
I bet he paid LOTS of taxes- state income tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, luxury tax, Social Security tax- well, probably not THAT one- he is, after all, "unemployed"!
Be careful what you say, Steve! It will only be minutes now before a headline appears on Drudge screaming "PROMINENT LEFTIE BLOGGER CLAIMS PRESIDENT IS A MURDERER!"
But romneys claims that he paid taxes the last 10 years are unsubstantiated rumor also , until he proves other wise , so fair game
Well, why isn't he been prosecuted? I'm sure the IRS would know if he filed taxes. Is Harry just saying he didn't pay any? Was a law broken or is it just the current tax code? If there are legitimate loop holes, close them, but don't blame someone for using them. Kind of like BO stepping around votes to enact the Dream Act, it's legal and he's allowed to use it. Is it right? That's the debate.
No one is accusing him of breaking the law. The contention is that he used more or less legal tax shelters to zero out his tax liability.
Under the law, if a tax lawyer is willing to write an opinion letter saying that a "position," i.e. a contention that x amount of income isn't taxable, is not utterly without legal merit, the most you can get hit with is having the deduction disallowed and having to pay the tax plus interest. If the Service can show you were reckless, i.e. shut your eyes to obvious problems, they'll hit you with a 20% penalty. Only if there's no good faith legal basis for a deduction will you face criminal liability.
The exception is off-shore tax shelters. When the IRS finally got its hands on information about the owners of Swiss accounts at UBS that were being used to illegally shelter income in 2009, there were so many names on the list that it would have overwhelmed its capacity to prosecute (thanks to cuts to the IRS enforcement budget by Republicans) and opted for an amnesty offer--step forward voluntarily, pay up with a penalty and we won't prosecute for criminal tax evasion.
And, by a most remarkable coincidence, that Swiss account that popped up on Mitt's 2010 return was with UBS.
We are not discussing a crime here eric , we are talking about mr romney releasing his returns to the american people , so we can all decide if his business affairs are on the up and up enough to be the potus
Anyone who walks around claiming to be patriotic , like romney and you gop do , and then turn around and say it is LEGITIMATE to be free loaders in america , are just plain full of @!$%# sir , mr romney is beating the war drum with iran as we speak , and you think it is LEGITIMATE to skirt your taxes , while speaking in such a way? And yes , him paying 12% , while I pay 27% , is SKIRTING YOUR TAXES , where I came from
Also , mr obama and the dems have proven they were willing to work with the gop to pass some kind of immigration reform , but just like healthcare and many other subjects , the gop claim they are FOR reform , then block it every time , we can have a discussion on these subjects also , but I guarantee your side will come up short every time
Steve-458256
Thank you for your more detailed comment there , and for bringing up the UBS swiss accounts with romneys name attached , I have been wanting to work that in some where on this sight , romney gave mccain his returns thinking he could pass the vetting in 2008 , maybe he passed , and maybe he did not , but as a person interested in higher office , I would imagine he thought he could pass , but the swiss account might have changed everything after 2009 , so great point
The fact the obama let all those criminals off is still apalling , especially after he promised to go after them while campaigning , yet another subject the corporate media will never ever cover , because all their pals were in there
"Kind of like BO stepping around votes to enact the Dream Act, it's legal and he's allowed to use it. Is it right?"
Wrong. I know that facts aren't your thing, Eric, but Obama did NOT "pass the DREAM Act." Or anything like it. All he did was say that he wasn't going to use the scarce resources of the Justice Department to deport youngsters currently attending school whose parents entered the country illegally. That's a far cry from giving them legal citizenship with voting rights in exchange for meeting certain conditions. There are bigger fish to fry.
That's the same kind of call Republicans make whenever they're in office. Repub presidents appoint industry-friendly commissioners to regulatory agencies who turn a blind eye to regulatory compliance. They fail to enforce environmental regulations. They cut regulatory agency budgets. They take the side of corporations against individual citizens who have been harmed. It all has to do with a president's priorities. There's only so much money, and you can't do everything.
Fortunately, for the most part, THIS president has a better set of priorities than his immediate predecessor.
The DIRTY LIAR republicans never have the "high ground." Payback's a bitch.
When reporters or pundits claim Reid's gone over the line, the proper response for any Democratic spokesperson is this:
"Right now, the Romney campaign is lying its ass off. In Ohio, it says, the Obama campaign is trying to deprive U.S. military personnel of the opportunity to vote early in the weekend before the election. This is a lie: the Obama campaign is fighting to ensure that all other Ohio voters share that opportunity to vote early. It is not attempting to take that opportunity away from anybody. This isn't a "I've got my opinion, you've got yours" situation. This isn't a "we don't know what the facts are" situation. This is a proven falsehood. And Romney's running on it. When are you going to confront him about this?
"Now Harry Reid is saying that he's got it on good authority that Romney hasn't paid taxes in 10 years. That is not a proven falsehood, despite the fact that it would be easy enough for Romney to prove Mr. Reid's sources are lying to him, if in fact they are.
"Suppose Romney had already released his back tax returns, and they showed Romney had paid taxes every year, and Reid was still claiming that Romney hadn't paid taxes for all those years. Now that would be outrageous, wouldn't it? Because then Harry Reid would be uttering a proven falsehood.
"In other words, only then would Reid be guilty of doing what Romney is doing, right now.
"So ask Romney why he's lying about Obama, then get back to me. Until then, I have nothing more to say to you about this."
This is a full page ad for every major newspaper...post this on Huff Post....put in all DNC fundraising letters. This is good, low-tech cyclist! Sincere Kudos!
How many of Obama's appointments were blocked by Senate Republicans due to their tax records?
And here all they had to do was tell the Committees, "no, we won't turn over the records, but you can trust us."
Democrats really do have the upper hand on this one, and they have not ceded the moral high ground either. The GOP rules by silencing questions about itself, its motivations, its actions, and its plans for the future. It's past time to put them under the pressure they freely apply to everyone else.
Oh, c'mon. Steve needs a better one than that. Presidential candidates by tradition have released their returns. Americans expect Presidential candidates to release the returns. Mitt Romney made his money in an industry that damn near destroyed the world. He made his money using rules written for the industry and income class that resulted in a can't-lose situation; heads Bain wins, tails Bain wins. Then he's taken advantage of tax rules written for his income class that allows all kinds of tax dodging. And he's hiding all of this because he actually knows its embarrassing and he might even know some illegality or shadiness will be located. Mitt Romney, of ALL Presidential candidates, should be expected to release more tax returns than any other Presidential candidate in history. And that is made doubly true considering the nonsensical "retroactive" retirement from Bain Capital and his desire to not wish to be associated with the negative consequences of any Bain actions after 1999.
Steve needs a better example. Besides the Romney Noise Machine is concocting nonsense pretty close to Steve's example as we speak, e.g., Obama wants to make it more difficult for military to vote in Ohio or any of the items in the weekly Steve's "Mitt's Mendacity" list.
Mitt Romney needs to release his tax returns and they should go back to AT LEAST 1999.
Like for instance that $100 million IRA? Or just maybe some tax losses on holdings that wiped out his income for the year but left his unrealized earnings better off?
I don't play these games but I do know some of the tricks.
Now that Priebus has called Harry Reid a 'dirty liar', does that open the door for Democrats to call Romney, McConnell, Cantor, et al. the same? They could be so branded whenever they open their mouths.
Benen is correct that it is unseemly for democrats to be playing by the republican game of innuendo. After all, ever since Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster it has been ruled unfair by the corporately owned media for democrats to imply anything negative about republicans while any (and every) thing goes for repukes.
Swerver is correct that this damages 'our cause'; if he is referring to the standard dumbocrap party 'cause' of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Well said. Reid's statements are mild compared with the nonsense that comes from the right-wing noise machine. I suppose all of those implications or outright claims that Obama wasn't born in this country, was awarded grades he didn't earn while in college, directed the "Fast and Furious" operation, or is a member of the Communist Party are 100% factual and based on documentation available to all.
Reince Priebus coming out against "dirty liars" is like Hitler coming out against anti-Semitism.
The fact that the Republicans are "squealing like pigs" even louder than Ned Beatty's character did in "Deliverance" shows that the target is being hit. And the longer Romney keeps his taxes secret, the longer it's going to go on. All you have to do, Williard you Moron, er, I mean Mormon, is show the tax returns and prove he's a liar. Ah, but that means we'd get to find out what a truly worthless piece of scum you are.
Poor Willard. Poor GOP. Willard has hidden or removed everything from his business life and his politics and we are supposed to take his word that he is honest and has nothing to hide. He won't even tell anyone his plans for this country until and if he gets to be president.
Hiring Dubya's henchmen has told me more than I need to know about his plans and hiding everything he has ever done in his life including running away during war tells me all I need to know about his character.
Does he belong to the Bohemien Grove club (he's not on the roster, but some aren't listed) or don't they care for him either?
I just looked that up. Boy, have those guys turned the meaning of "bohemian" on its head!
While I really do enjoy watching Mittens twist in the wind AND the fact that Harry could be essentially right does not lessen my impression that the entire episode is reminiscent of the call for BO’s birth certificate beginning last election. Mittens has every reason to hang tough and let the chips fall where they may because he knows (as Obama knew) if you cave it will only feed the beast. In BO’s case he also knew the evidence was on his side. In Mitten’s case maybe not so much.
But I have a Question: Mitten’s tax returns were reviewed by the McCain campaign. Presumably by tax iterate specialists. If the tax review found obvious legal issues could they be held accountable for failure to report a crime ?
Dear Rachel ... there's something really important you're missing in this. Romney and Reid are both active Mormons. When Romney says, "I'm honest in my business dealings" .. that is MORMON-SPEAK.
One of the questions one must answer in the affirmative, to be able to get a "Temple Recommend" .. (the special pass that allows entrance to Mormon temples) is, "Are you honest in all your business dealings."
Romney is speaking to Mormons and telling them HE is worthy, but Reid isn't.
I think what Reid has done is a brilliantly executed bit of political bluffing. If someone made an insulting accusation about me, and had the documents to prove that person to be a liar, I would sure as hell make sure everyone saw those documents. By not answering Reid's accusation, Romney looks even weaker on this issue. These accusations are ridiculous, right? Outrageous, even. So if he has the proof that Reid is lying, why does he not produce it? If Romney is really holding the straight flush he's betting, he would be playing it, not folding. Reid has called Romney's bluff with one of his own. Eventually we'll find out who really has the cards.
Every single journalist, George Will as much as any, have gleefully used 'anonymous sources who cannot talk on record because of their close position to the .....' And now, they are all apoplectic that Majority Leader Reid will not disclose his source. What hypocrisy! Does the name 'DeepThroat' mean anything to anyone in Washington (I frankly think they still prefer to think of the porn movie and not Mark Felt, the high ranking FBI agent who was given the moniker for ... what ... HIS NEED TO BE AN ANONYMOUS SOURCE! Damn I hate to quote Sarah, but she is right about one thing; the Media is lame, and they are taking themselves to new levels of depravity.