Zillow.com real estate listing
One of Mitt Romney's mansions seems to have generated quite a bit more attention than the others. The beachfront home in La Jolla, Calif., was bound to raise more eyebrows -- it's the one Romney is quadrupling in size, adding a car elevator and a "subterranean mansion."
But the L.A. Times has a fresh look at the story today, noting some details I hadn't seen before (thanks to reader R.P. for the tip).
Mitt and Ann Romney were easily able to afford a $12-million La Jolla home. But that didn't insulate them from the winds buffeting the real estate market in the months following their purchase in 2008.
After paying cash for the Mediterranean-style house with 61 feet of beach frontage, they asked San Diego County for dramatic property tax relief.
Romney, the presumptive GOP nominee for president whose wealth is estimated at $250 million, has rejected calls from Democrats and Republicans to release his income tax returns prior to 2010. But San Diego County assessor records shed light on one sliver of the couple's personal taxes during that time: a months-long effort to reduce their annual property tax bill.
Now, it's jarring enough that someone who hasn't earned a paycheck in a decade can pay cash for a $12 million beachfront mansion. It's also odd that Romney hired a lobbyist for his house.
But in this story, we learn that Romney desperately wanted local officials to believe his home had lost nearly half its value a mere seven months after he bought it. Why? So he could pay less in taxes.
As it turns out, the local assessors weren't going for it, and the Romneys had to settle for a more modest reduction. But did the candidate really have to fight to lower his property-tax bill after he'd already paid cash for a car-elevator mansion?
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But, he shares our values, Steve.
... and feels our pain.
He doesn't pay taxes like the little people either.
Mitt Romney: just the right man to know what the correct course is for the middle class.
So this is what the campaign has come down to? Negative ads, unfounded accusations, resentment of success. Face it, Romney is rich, and because of our rediculously complex tax code, he's able to minimize his taxes legally. Who wouldn't? What home owner doesn't appeal property taxes when an assessment is too high.
Where is the discussion of the issues? The most recent legitimate debate is over Romney's tax proposal. Fine. Where are dicussions over jobs, the fiscal cliff, Social Security and other entitlements? Instead, from one side we get only social pandering, not my fault, and show the taxes. From the other, little meat.
Be patient, from. Romney doesn't want to talk about that, but he's not going to be able to avoid it.
Just about everybody that owns property and half a brain has recently appealed their property tax assessments because local governments, understandably, are so reluctant in reducing values to reflect the current market.
To imply this is some sort of tax evasion is ridiculous.
Awwwww.... how precious getting all contorted Mitty's pluto behavior is under a microscope. Pube fluffer must be a horrible way to go through life.
I'll bet "just about everybody that owns property and half a brain has recently" hired a lobbyist "to appeal their property tax" and they're all worth $250,000,000+, too. And that's why Mitty needs to let the country see those tax returns.
Let's see those tax returns, Mitty.
Go Harry! Aim for the head!
So it's a bad thing if you can afford to hire a lobbyist to appeal your property tax? huh?
Let's say Romney utilizes an army to take advantage of the existing tax laws and applies this advantage to all his income, just because he can afford it. What exactly do you want him, and all 1%'ers, to do differently and why is this a problem? As far as I can see, he's not breaking the law.
PS: TRMS - I'm really surprised you allow some of this implied language on this blog.
I'm perfectly comfortable with allowing Americans to view this particular Romney situation and seeing how they feel about in their own gut. Add that to the fact he's scared to release his tax returns, the way he used Bain in a can't-lose heads Bain win, tails Bain wins private equity career, hasn't worked for how long?, the way he bragged about ripping the face off the federal govt for the 2002 Olympics, etc. and let them decide just what they think about it.
And you know what? You know exactly what they think about it. And it ain't good for Pube fluffer's Team Republican.
Let's see those tax returns.
Go Harry! Aim for the head!
A pattern appears with Romney to do with a profound lack of responsibility while having things his way, both ways, all the way: Vietnam deferment for Mormons only, Residency; Signing tax returns; Fiduciary records from his service in the Olympics; signing as CEO of Bain; Leading fellow school punks to gang up on a lone kid and he himself cut the kid’s hair; etc. It seems a rather pathological behavior if not simply being a spoiled kid who gets everything he wants for himself. You can add what other examples you wish.
I agree, although I might call it sociopathic behavior. Rawmoney is narcissistic, has plenty of hubris and deep down he feels as though it really is "his turn" to be President - qualifications aren't to asked for.
Funny - there are millions of homeowners that are also seeking "some relief" on both their property taxes and mortgage - and this millionaire has the nerve to cry "poverty" on a house that he paid cash for and wants to install an elevator - THE NERVE!!
That's funny. Obama had what credentials when he was elected? Zip, zero, nada.
Pooper's out pooping again. Anybody else wonder about why his avatar is a snake? A little projection there, little Poopy-boy?
Yase, because being a senator, a constitutional law professor, and president of the Harvard Law Review is the same as having no qualifications. Shut the @!$%# up and kill yourself, Shooter. You're totally worthless as a human being and as a political mouthpiece for the Retarded Right.
Aaaaair ball...Aaaaair ball...Aaaaair ball...Aaaaair ball...
Patrick, Romney was a Governor...which is an executive office just like the President.
Shut the @!$%# up and kill yourself, Shooter. You're totally worthless as a human being and as a political mouthpiece for the Retarded Right.
And of course your comment above is so understanding for a liberal - which I am assuming you are. Talk about hate-speech.
I think Patrick made a sober, reasonable analysis of the situation and I support his solution. The world would be a better place. And average intelligence would go up.
Whatever Disgusted. Any resonable debate or comment that you or Patrick make are totally negated but such crass, immature statements. Shooter was just stating an opinion. If you disagree, then prove him wrong. Personally I don't think Romney has enough experience and in 2008 I also didn't think a junior Senator with 3 years experience - the last year almost completely campaigning - was the most qualified that the Democratic party could muster. Not even close, considering the numerous people in Congress and in Governor posts, with a ton more experience.
You know I see at lot of that kind of crap ("kill youself...totally worthless as a human being, etc) on extremist sites - mostly on the right, but you making comments like that here just brings this site down to that level. I have never seen shooter make comments like that. He may state things you disagree with, but at least he is civil.
It's not a snake, it's a basketball swishing through the net.
That's all I defend Mr. Shooter on.
As for Mr. Romney?
He can pack sand. He's got plenty of it on that beach of his.
Skip: Thanks. We can be civil and overcome emotion with substance on these blogs and expect the same from our representatives and the media.
Wrong, skip. He's disrupting, and intentionally misleading. Sorry you can't see that. He should play in traffic. The world would be a better place.
Disgusted,
Distrupting? At a blog - where people can post comments and debate? If your definition of disrupting is any comment that doesn't agree with you and the vast majority of the obviously left-leaning supermajority here, then OK. But I do not see it that way. I do not like going to sites where EVERYONE is thinking exactly the same. It's boring and the site is just a cheerleading blog where everyone pats everyone else on the back for the exact same mindset. Again, boring. I do not understand your stance and Patrick's where you lash out like a 7th grader losing an argument. What is the big deal if someone like Shooter (or me for that matter) puts a few words down on a blog like this that is not in unison with the rest of the folks. Is it really that harmful? If anything here is harmful, it would be the coarse comments left by Patrick.
Skip, I believe that Disgusted is referring to Shooters unwillingness to 1) listen to a reasonable argument that's being made, 2) unwillingness to open his mind to either facts or other lines of thought, and 3) Shooter is just part of the nauseating propaganda machine - and while I don't mind thought filled, stimulating, provocative conversation - I have to admit that Shooter has made of himself an ignorant nuisance, and after awhile of explanation after explanation he's kinda made it easy for people to "go there on him". It may not be "nice", but I think it helps people relieve their frustration of the "choose to stay ignorant & vote against my own economic interests".
In the end I figure he can go back to his buddies on the reich and tell them not all liberals/progressives are passive and won't fight back....
Zora: Hurling insults back and forth doesn't show any strength in fighting back but only emotional weakness. Address the substance or lack thereof and maybe some banter to keep things somewhat sociable. Admitted, overcoming emotion is an oft presented challenge, something I know I could be better at. I wish everybody luck.
You're either a fool or new at this, blue. I'm not gonna waste time with your unreasonable appeals for reasonableness. Put me on ignore, please if you don't like it.
No problem, Disgusted. I'll do my best to address the substance of whatever you offer.
Your best needs help.
Yes, skip, "disrupting." If you haven't been able to see that from reading his ineffectual garbage, then I have to tell you, you're not very perceptive, and I just don't know what to tell you about it. But try this:
http://moelane.com/2012/06/09/troll-hunting-101/comment-page-1/#comment-191137
If you don't get it now, you never will.
Disgusted,
I have seen that June 11 "quote" from shooter countless times - probably from you. So what ? You make it seem that this little inconsequential blog is important or is helping shape our public policy. I come here to blog with others about the current events happening and at the end of the day all the words here are just that - words. Apparently you are fixated on shooter and others like him. Yeah, maybe he says something that is not totally true or he may have a slant that is counter to most opinions here, but you know what? I would rather see a few comments that are on the other side from the 95% that are in lockstep agreement. I do get it Disgusted. This is a silly blog...and not meant to mean anything. It is entertainment/lively discussion. That's all. I think you are the one lacking perspective here.
If you don't get that...you never will
No, you don't get it. And actually, it does matter, and it's why they do what they do:
http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/07/astroturfing-a-major-challenge-to-climate-change/
It's a different world, sir. We didn't write the rules, but we don't have any choice but to play by them. They do not accept evidence and facts. They do not listen to reason. They can not be convinced by evidence and reason. It is futile to engage someone like that who is not encumbered by time or the everyday methods of ending discussion. They can not be silenced by society's normal ways of by a class/committee/gatherings time restrictions, ridicule, scorn, or humiliation. They are the dumbest kid in the class that, no matter how many times they've been corrected, maintains they are right and nobody can shut them up. They mock and disrespect expertise and learned authority. Without the slightest bit of scientific intelligence, they deem themselves competent at calling balls and strikes on climate scientists. They dismiss the CBO without providing any alternative. They ridicule economists who have been completely correct since the beginning of the Great Recession and accept those who have been completely wrong.
You, sir, are the sort that aids the malicious, and are complicit with their agenda. Your type has allowed the inch-by-inch near takeover by the barbarians wanting to erase the 20th century. You think it's a discussion for them and they are to be treated as interested in a good faith debate. It is not; it is a war for them, and therefore it is a war for you. You are a Neville Chamberlain.
Try to get it. And put me on ignore.
At one point I considered voting for Mitt this Fall, but the more I read about the guy, the bigger the a-hole he appears to be, and there is no way I would vote for him now.
I just don't get why he does things like this that have marginal impact on his net worth, yet simultaneously screws San Diego out of much needed tax revenue and makes him come across as yet another Gordon Gekko style d-bag.
That's because he is another Gordon Gekko-style douchebag. "Greed.... is good!"
The phrase "a sense of entitlement" never had a more appropriate representative than Governor Romney.
Actually, "a sense of entitlement" describes Obama to a "T". Romney earned his money, Obama hasn't accomplished anything of note yet thinks he's God's gift to America.
Which reminds me, who here protested John Edwards new house? That was 28,000 square feet 4 times larger than Romney's. As for taxes, at least he pays them - unlike the even more wealthy John Kerry and his $7 million yacht.
Did we hear any disapproval on either of those items? I think not, and that just points out another reason to ignore the left, rank hypocrisy.
Shooter!!!please reason stop rationalizing.I understand the free speech thing,but please think! leave ideology.
After law School,Obama left to become a community organizer and law professor,Very few people,with his academic record do that.He was not in thirst of money.
Bain Capital was handed to Mr. Romney with no strings or risk involved/attarched--I say good for him,but don't look at Romney as a symbol of nobility or achievement.,because he isn't.A business man/woman who takes risks and build his/her Business from scratch is more noble than someone who was born with a "Silver foot in his mouth"
Pooper, have you ever heard of the concept that an argument needs to make logical sense? Of course, you may perhaps be the product of the dumbing-down of education over the past 40 years, which would go a long way in explaining your inability to use critical reason and logic in your posts, and why your grammar usage reminds me of an elementary school student. There is a correlation between the dumbing-down of education and the rise of you wingnut morons.
Yes, writing a book with your own brain and hands is never deserving of payment. It should be like posting conservative lies on the internet, done out of the goodness of your heart for free. You need to get money from your Dad to get the respect of people like Shooter.
Oh Shooter...yes Obama DID earn his money...at his JOBS. I know that you think you're one of the billionaires but for the majority of us...we have a job, we pay taxes, we might buy a house, we pay taxes, we pay social security and THEN people like you say we want 'free stuff'...I think you should THINK.
"Actually, "a sense of entitlement" describes Obama to a "T". Romney earned his money, Obama hasn't accomplished anything of note yet thinks he's God's gift to America."
It would be hard to choose, given the long list, but this might be the dumbest comment you've ever made. Romney wasn't just born on third base; he was born a couple of feet from home plate. If there were EVER an ad for an entitlement mentality, especially when it comes to politics, it's Romney. His comments about it being time for Obama to leave so he can have "his turn," are ample evidence of this.
Obama, on the other hand, started about as far down as one could be, maybe short of being born in a ghetto. Just as with Carter and Clinton, Obama had to go several feet just to get in the batter's box, let alone being led carefully around the bases. He had no wealth, power, or position to leverage as he worked his way up. He made some of the same mistakes other young people in his generation made, and overcame them.
He financed his education the way that most people do: working some, getting some grants, and taking out large loans. As a community advocate and organizer, he put in time helping the poor and powerless, rather than romping around at the country club set and playing with other people's money.
It's also too bad that you don't think that teaching is work. There are many K-12 teachers and college/university professors around the country who would disagree with you. But then, from your posts, I wouldn't expect you to appreciate the value of the work those people do.
This is the best guy the GOP could come up with.. It speaks volumes!!
Trollop
Spot on. And yet several states show a close race for President. What the f...
A subteranean refuge? Highly suspect. Is romney planning for nuclear war... or revolution?
Read your comment, then the one by Ninz below "and his neighbors don't like him." I think we have our answer right there! He's hiding from his neighbors! Certainly a basement refuge is pocket change for a guy like him, and after his embarrassing performance in the campaign, probably well worth the cost.
If we all know Romney and his tax shenanigans, don't put it past him to somehow figure out a way to write off the subterranean refuge. Ann Romney's therapy room? Their command central office location? Whatever he comes up with you can be damn sure that it will appear on next year's tax returns. He will find a way to close up the gap that the SD tax assessor's office would not give him.
And his neighbors don't like him.
Challenging value of homes for tax reduction is pretty common practice for home owners regardless of party affiliation. Paying cash is by far an extreme luxury. I'm sure he argued that suggested capital loss into one of those returns he refuses to release.
Well he probably would argue capital loss, but it's not a capital loss until you actually sell it for less than you paid.
Let's see, Romney wants to screw local government out of their tax proceeds, and I'm sure he's prated about how important local governments are when pandering for votes. Now, I'm sure that Mitt and Ann drive on the roads that the local gov't provides, depends on the police, the firefighters, etc. and poor things, they can't afford the taxes on a multi-million dollar house they paid cash for. Well, I guess you don't stay rich by being decent and following the rules of average people.
"Rebuild it exactly the same, Master Wayne? Perhaps we should take this opportunity to improve the foundations--under the east wing?"
Loved it!
Now, now. I'm sure that Mitt was within his legal rights to ask the taxing authority to reduce his property taxes. Any property owner can do this. In fact, let's ALL do this. That won't burden the taxing authorities at all now, will it?
How much you wanna bet that Mitt paid his attorneys, accountants, and lobbyists more than he saved in property taxes?
Maybe so, but those lawyers, accountants, and lobbyists will do good, responsible things with their earnings--like invest in Wall Street. As opposed to the local taxing authority, which will just waste the tax money on Main Street (perhaps literally).
(tongue firmly in cheek).
Good one Mike. Better yet - those lawyers, accountants, and lobbyists are job creators, so by fighting for lower property taxes, Mitt is helping create jobs!
(in cheek here, too)
While a lot of people challenge real estate tax valuations, what you paid a few months before is pretty good evidence of what the property is worth when assessed. To claim that it dropped 50% in value doesn't really pass the smell test unless the market has really gone south. That happens occasionally. When did he buy the house?
This story gives us a hint as to what we might find in Romney's income tax returns. I suspect his accountants are pretty aggressive, maybe too aggressive.
and this shocks ANYBODY?
Well, the stocks (or whatever it was, he won't say) that he put in his kids' gift accounts and his IRA were declared worthless at the time, since there are legal limits to how much value you can put in those kinds of accounts tax free. But they suddenly ballooned to be worth hundreds of millions. It may be that Romney can do the opposite with real estate? Maybe it's worth less, because half of the lawn is now in an account in the Cayman islands?
Romney's behavior is reasonable, for a crazy person.
He and his wife seem obsessed with money. Insanely so. Even her dressage horse had to be treated as a business, so they could claim a $77,000 tax deduction.
Multi-multi millionaires looking for every little advantage at the expense of others (local government services and the residents of the case of La Jolla) is symptomatic of a deep psychological sickness on the part of the Romneys.
shocking, but not surprising...after all, people don't get to be as rich as Romney unless they care deeply about every nickel and dime they earn and spend..or unless they win the lottery..
I think once Romney's negatives hit 60%, he's toast...getting closer every day
As long as voter suppression plans are in place in 7 or 8 battleground states, Romney has a shot at an electoral college victory. They don't care if Obama wins by 5 million votes. If Romney wins his reliable idiot red states plus enough swing states, he can get to 270. Or 269-269, with the Republican House voting him in.
Voter suppression is Romney's best bet. Even a begotten court case could serve up some anarchy.
Because it was suggested that Mitt's IRA was purported to be worth 100 million. Making the legal limit on yearly contributions ostensibly meant making deposits for about 16000 years (also suggested). In addition, it is also known that he has in the past, spent time in France.
I would thus like to posit that the Lascaux cave paintings have been reinterpreted as documentation of Mr. Romney's original IRA records.
Recently discovered text carved at the bottom of the petroglyphs states: "Je l'amende retroactivment." And the more cryptic, "Les chevaux sont les gens aussi mon ami."
This proves beyond any ...
Oh wait, cave art and text together? I guess I lied. My bad.
Vote for Mitt. He has a bunker just like all you right winged loons either have or want! Yes sir I bet he has a supply of rations and ammo too. Of course he knows he himself is the biggest threat to the country.
I wonder how they assess property there? I mean if you double the size of the house but keep the additions underground does that negate the value added?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=446747198703653&set=a.108057062572670.5084.100001051307821&type=1&ref=nf
Check this out, and share. If you agree....
When RomneyHood (takes from the middle class/poor and gives to the rich) off shores his money; uses every loophole (real or imagined) and games the system, just who pays? We do. His cheap, greedy need to have his house assessed at 50% less (after paying $12 million in CASH) takes revenue from the state. Oh well, we don't need police and other first responders. Suppose everyone could do this. Suppose everyone thought the way RomneyHood thinks. Somalia here we come.