So you don't consider the accusation Romney killed this man's wife to be a lie?

Shooter - how do you get from "I lost my job and health insurance, and then my wife got sick and died" to "Mitt Romney killed my wife."? Nobody accused Mittens of murder here. There was no accusation and therefore no lie.

But I can see why you would think that way, when you're told that anyone who uses birth control is a slut and a prostitute.

Shooter if their had been an Affordable Care Act when he lost his job and insurance, his wife could have gone to the doctors earlier, gotten diagnose and treatment earlier and perhaps a different outcome. That is not accusing Romney of killing his wife.

His wife was never covered by his insurance, and the plant closed when Mitt wasn't there......yet another baseless attack from the left.

Honestly, Shooter, you are our window into the Republican psyche. You are a fascinating specimen of GOP spin-doctoring, and it comes so naturally to you, too. Why, it's almost as if I want to take a scalpel and dissect your brain, it's so intriguing in its GOP lie-making process.

AnneBe, the Left is starting this by a very misleading ad. They want the viewer to tie that woman's death to Romney, if that's not the message, what is? No spin there.

Eric (the half a bee)

What proof do you have that this man's wife was not included on his insurance?

Maria (no bee), are you that lazy that you can't even click on the link in the above article? Her primary insurance was through her job, and she went to the ER YEARS after the plant closed. She went undiagnosed, and sadly went to seek any type of treatment too late.

a rose by any other name?

It's a good day when a senior Romney spokesperson states there is only one thing wrong with Romneycare: That it's only available in Massachusetts.

Since Republicans strategically demonize the "Affordable Care Act" by only referring to it as "Obamacare" and only when using an angry tone, why don't Democrats occasionally refer to the ACA as "National Romneycare" or maybe "Universal Romneycare". If a Democrat nickname for the ACA catches on and Mr. Romney brings up "Obamacare" during a televised debate with President Obama, Mr. Obama could initially respond during the debate with the official ACA name, but he could add, "also popularly known throughout America as Obamacare and Universal Romneycare...".

Excellent idea!

The campaign can't edit the ad... This was a Priorities USA Action Superpac ad.

Did not know - thank you.

I was thinking that they would be able to create a new ad with Lorr's idea.

So then Priorities USA should edit the ad. Why waste a good idea?

But the guy's point is that if Bain hadn't eliminated his job and benefits, what was his wife's secondary policy would have become her primary policy when she lost her job and she wouldn't have felt the need to avoid going the doctor for three or four years because they were broke and uninsured.

This is just another reason to ignore the left. It's an incoherent rant that wants to assign guilt for a woman's death, no matter how absurd the contortions required to make connections. Romney is not responsible for this couple's bad luck. To imply he is... is despicable. There really is no recourse if you're going to hold this view. You have gone beyond the pale.

Let's see, that America's poor and middle class need health insurance because millions don't or didn't have it unlike every other westernized democracy in the world and finally after 50 years + of trying by both Democrat and Republican Presidents and Congresses, Obama and the Dems got it done. But now hypoMitt and the Republicans want to undo it and have in fact wasted over a trillion dollars trying to repeal it 33 times.

It seems extremely hypocritical and harsh to me that the people who are trying so hard to undo this and who claim it's a total waste ALL have total health insurance themselves many provided totally by the government. Total, complete selfishness and greed. Whatever happened to standing together as American's? Why do you feel other countries and their citizens should do better and be better off than we are?

"...the bubble of entitled coddling that surrounds our degenerate MSM..."

Is TRMS one of the MSM in this context? I see differences in degrees is all.

"Having no insurance and less than half their prior income from that point on, both avoided seeking medical care unless absolutely necessary. In 2006, she got too sick to ignore and when he took dragged her the hospital with what seemed to be a potentially lethal case of pneumonia, they learned what she what she really had was a Stage IV tumor, terminal cancer."

wow. they couldn't afford medical care. Seems that you can't quite grasp that. They couldn't afford it, so they weren't "avoiding" it. IF I can't afford buying a car, I'm not avoiding doing so.

"The guy blames Bain and Romney. Only someone who is so deep into the bubble of entitled coddling that surrounds our degenerate MSM that they can't even imagine themselves in his situation could find fault with his analysis."

and let me guess, you've always been able to afford health care. Who gives a damn for those who can't. Golly, they just want "entitlements". No, they want jobs that pay well. They want a system that supports health and doesn't make you wait until you are so damn sick to treat you. Yep, it's possible the guy would have lost his job anyway. But that's not reality. Bain and Romney (who is either an idiot or a liar when it comes to his excuses about Bain) destroyed the company and took his job away. It wasn't "luck" it was their DIRECT actions.

You are all missing the point of the article which is not Soptic add but Romney campaign's response to it admitting that they would have been ok under Romneycare, which is sort of admitting Obamacare would have kept this from happening.

"The problem isn't that the argument is false. On the contrary, Saul is absolutely right and her boast is based entirely on fact. If the Soptic family in Kansas had been in Massachusetts under the Romney plan, Joe Soptic's wife almost certainly would have been diagnosed and treated much earlier.

Rather, the problem is, the Romney campaign isn't supposed to admit this out loud."

"That tumor was growing in her during the years when they were avoiding medical care"

That's exactly right. It's the same for many people with uncontrolled chronic illness as well. Many people receive their prescriptions from a doctor, have it filled, and then take it at half the prescribed rate to make it last longer, living with semi-high blood pressure or partial depression or moderately high blood glucose. Others grit their teeth and let an ulcer bleed, taking iron pills to help with the anemia.

When it is too much to bear, they finally go to the ER.

It's infuriating to see reports like these.

One of us has gone beyond the pale, Shooter. It isn't me.

It's the belief that the Bains and Romneys of this world bear no moral responsibility for the consequences of their actions to anyone but their investors that's put this country on the path of decline.

And velkyn, you seem to have put on your "this means the opposite of what it means" glasses when you read my post.

So Steve, who do you know that started a business only to provide people health insurance? No one.

Are you going to blame every business owner that has to shut down a company for everything bad that happens thereafter? Apparently so.

Do you have any idea where the money for jobs and taxes and health insurance comes from? I think not.

Do you have any idea where the money for jobs and taxes and health insurance comes from? I think not.

Blanks, judging by your posts, you don't know the answer to your own question, either.

I think it comes from actual productive economic activity, stuff like manufacturing, venture capital and business credit, the provision of valuable services and the manufacture of goods. You, however, seem to think it comes either from magic confidence fairies that haz a sad unless Job Creators are fulsomely praised and taxes and wages and benefits are low. Oh, and from the kind of entirely vampiric economic parasitism practiced by the likes of Bain, or paycheck lenders or concerns like Magnatar and Goldman creating CDO's based on loan portfolios that were designed to fail so that they could place bets against tranches they didn't have an insurable interest in on the credit default swap markets.

It's the belief that the Bains and Romneys of this world bear no moral responsibility for the consequences of their actions to anyone but their investors that's put this country on the path of decline.

So, using your insane troll logic BO is responsible for anyone killed in a GM car since he saved that company?

* pssst...by the way the guys wife who dies was never covered under his insurance, and Romney was not working at Bain, but why let those pesky facts get in the way.

Psst, by the way, the guy's insurance was her secondary coverage--coverage that kicks in when the primaries coverage limits are exhausted--when she was insured and would have become her primary coverage when she lost her own insurance if he'd still had it when she lost hers.

The fact that his loss of his job and insurance wasn't the sole cause of his wife's death doesn't mean it wasn't a cause. The fact that she'd have had coverage if he hadn't lost it makes it a proximate cause.

Might want to look those words, "proximate cause" to figure out the answer to your other question.

I agree that's what they believe, but I don't think it's what's happening. Sure, the media is doing a piss-poor job of calling them liars when they put out blatantly false attacks. But the one thing that does seem to to be happening is that the media isn't circulating their messages very much, because they know they're false, even if they fail to say so out loud. Consider that the Romney campaign has put out three obviously false attacks (the early voting lawsuit in Ohio, welfare reform waivers, and the "build that" BS, at least), and each has generated at most a couple of days of news.

Contrast that to the issues of Romney's tax returns and Bain business practices, which have been generating continuous discussion for more than a month each, and are still going strong. Anyone can make up BS attacks, but if there's no substance to them, there's nothing to talk about.

"Anyone can make up BS attacks, but if there's no substance to them, there's nothing to talk about."

Uh, No. Making up BS attacks IS the story. Read almost any traditional corporate-owned media political article and it mind-reads campaign strategy. So they can mind-read that they KNOW the Romney/Republican strategy consists solely of manufacturing lies about what Obama/Democrats say (and believe). That's all the Republicans have and they're sticking with it.

That IS the story. And it's not being told.

Agreed

Don't be foolish. You have no idea what Romney paid, therefore have no idea whether attacks are reasonable.

Really? We do know Romney avoided paying taxes on $1 Billion in Italy. We know he has only released one year of tax returns when everyone else has released 12 (except Bush who released 8), even though the Republicans claim McCain released 2 when in fact McCain has released all his taxes every time he ran for Senate so in fact McCain has released decades of returns.

Clearly Mitt is avoiding the truth regarding his taxes. Additionally McCain defended Obama when a women claimed he was foreign born. McCain defended Hillary's assistant for not being part of Muslim Brotherhood when under attack by Bachman, MCain defended Obama and the SEAL Team when under attack by Fox, Limbaugh and friends when they made the claim that Bin Laden really wasn't killed. We know that McCain HAS seen 21 years of Mitts taxes and he hasn't come out to defend Mitt for in fact paying all of his income taxes so what does that tell you?

I know he didn't pay any tax on the 120 million in that obscenely bloated IRA and I know that bloating didn't happen without a lot of extremely aggressive, right to the limits of legality, tax planning.

We have a year of his tax returns, you moron.

I don't feel sorry for them at all. We're all taught right from wrong at a very young age, and that lying is wrong, and that there are consequences for doing wrong. These people have made their choice - they deserve the consequences.