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There's an awful lot wrong with Paul Ryan's congressional Republican budget plan, but there's one flaw in particular that tends to stand out: it would end the existing Medicare program, replacing it with a voucher scheme. The American mainstream tends to consider this a very bad idea.
It's also why Democrats were so pleased when Mitt Romney made Ryan his running mate -- Dems are eager to tell voters, "Don't vote for the 'Kill Medicare' ticket."
Team Romney, of course, are well aware of the problem, but have a plan to address it: muddle the waters and hope voters can't tell the difference. Democrats will say, "The Romney-Ryan plan guts Medicare"; Republicans will say, "Nuh uh, Obama's plan guts Medicare"; and the electorate (if the GOP strategy works) won't know who to believe.
Indeed, this fight got underway on Saturday morning, when Romney, in his speech introducing Ryan, said President Obama "cut Medicare funding by $700 billion." The former governor pushed a similar line last night on "60 Minutes."
Both sides claim to be helping Medicare, and both sides say their rivals are hurting Medicare. Only one is being cynically, breathtakingly dishonest, but since it's easy to get confused, let's set the record straight.
President Obama's Affordable Care Act, recognizing Medicare's long-term financing challenges, found significant savings in the program. What kind of savings? As Sahil Kapur noted, they come "largely in the form of reduced payments to hospitals, discounts on Medicaid prescription drugs, and pay cuts to private insurers under Medicare Advantage."
The savings help extend the financial health of the Medicare program -- without touching Medicare benefits -- and were endorsed by the AARP. What's more, the savings go "back into the pockets of people who need help with their medical bills," not to pay for tax cut for millionaires.
Romney now wants voters to believe these "cuts" are evidence that Obama is "gutting" Medicare. The Republican must realize he's lying -- the savings strengthen the Medicare system. Indeed, Paul Ryan's own budget plan embraces the identical savings. If Obama wants to "cut Medicare funding by $700 billion," then Romney's own running mate also wants to "cut Medicare funding by $700 billion" -- and then some.
And that leads us to the Ryan plan for Medicare.
Under the congressional Republican budget plan, which Romney has enthusiastically endorsed more than once, Medicare as it currently exists would be destroyed. In its place, there'd be a new, privatized system that would be called Medicare, but which would function very differently.
Seniors would be given a modest voucher that they would use to purchase insurance in the private market. The voucher would not keep up with the growing costs of seniors' medical care, and it'd be up the elderly and their families to somehow make up the difference, because the guaranteed benefit of the Medicare program would be gone.
The money saved by this scheme would go -- you guessed it -- to pay for tax cuts, not health care, and not debt reduction.
Romney-Ryan desperately wants to muddle the Medicare picture, assuming voters are fools. But the facts aren't that complicated, and if the public has even the slightest understanding of reality, the issue will favor President Obama enormously.
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Romney not telling the truth, what a big surprise! Fox News drumming those lies into the vacant heads of their viewers, day in, day out, what kind of ethics do Romney and Fox have. Imagine a lying sociopath like Romney in the oval office.
Imagine a lying sociopath in the Whitehouse?. I dont need to imagine it. A lying sociopath occupied the Whitehouse from 2001 to 2009. Remember that douche standing on the WTC rubble declaring that he would avenge the very act he created. 9/11 was an inside job by CEPAC
PNAC...sorry
None
pavana, you forgot the president serving from 1969-1974 - Liar-and-Crook in chief.
1969-74: where all the rotten fruit took root. They all go back to the Nixon administration. Rove was a minor imp of satan there, learning from the master's knee. All of them. All criminals.
The key line in Steve's story is
The best way to control messaging, or rather, to talk about this, is to refer to the $700 billion as Savings - not cuts.
The second thing to communicate is that the $700 billion Savings is not the real issue - it's a diversion.
The real issue is the Romney/Ryan plan to eliminate Medicare.
" it would end the existing Medicare program, replacing it with a voucher scheme."
either significant misinformation/ignorance or a lie: over 55 years old = NO CHANGE.
Under 55, when "you" become eligible for medicare in 2022 you may qualify for a SUBSIDY which you can use to CHOOSE to remain in the traditional medicare or you can CHOOSE to use it to buy coverage in the private market. please not the words CHOOSE and the absence of the words "Mandate, tax, fine, responsibility fee, IRS, etc)
the subsidy will VARY BY AGE, INCOME AND HEALTH: poor health, higher subsidy.
$700 million in "savings" are IN FACT CUTS in the current reimbursement rates paid to providers of care to medicare patients.
obamacare tax claims this $700 billion is BOTH a reduction in the cost of medicare AND A SAVINGS which can be applied to reduce the "cost" of obamacare tax.
If I made this argument in Accounting 101, I would fail the course. If I engaged in this type of accounting as a CPA or CFO, I lose my license and probably go to jail.
laughably, Sibelius claimed in front of a CONgressional hearing that the govt was using the $700 billion in CUTS as BOTH a reduction in the cost of medicare AND a "savings" applied to obamacaretax. QED, we have IDIOTS RUNNING THE COUNTRY
This should be agonizingly fun to watch......the spin the GOP will try to impart on this reality will set new precedence....in Florida, a swing state, especially. Hoo Boy!
Yeah, even with a new version of the butterfly ballot, they will lose Florida.
I hope you're right, but the key will be in explaining facts which my not seem complicated to Rachel, but which might be daunting to the average person.
I propose having Ezra Klein on Rachel's show more often, doing his masterful explanations of complex issues in short time periods (or even not-so short time periods). He's a gifted teacher, and would make us all better able to express ideas in terms that the average person could appreciate. The word could thus be spread from the bottom up, while Obama and Biden spread the same word from the top down.
So What do you propose to save medicare? any bipartisan analysis indicates that Medicare cannot exist as we know it and it will not survive under ObamaCare. you fail to realize that Obamacare taxes us all in more ways than one and does not fix Medicare. Obama has tried nothing to fix this problem. Just an excuse to tax and spend leaving those on medicare to eventually fend for themselves. Someone has to be bold and fix this entitelment. Obama has failed.
You did not address that Romney/Ryan are also saying that people can choose to take the private health insurance or stay on Medicare. What impact will that have on the overall program?
When everyone stays on Medicare, it will go bankrupt since they have de-funded it, which is part of their plan.
You stay on Medicare if you are 55 or under. You are not affected. Going forward you will not stay on the old Medicare plan.
Steve, please take a few minutes to brief Rachel on all this wonky stuff the next time she goes on Meet the Press. She was owned by Rich Lowery yesterday on this exact issue. Totally unprepared. Totally unRachel like. If you are going to work for her, you owe her a briefing.
I was thinking that, too. She got into the war of words and lost the message when he made it into a "Do you?" debate.
Yes, Rachel probably could've put up a better fight; but when your opponent keeps shoving a strawman question down your throat and doesn't allow you to get a word in edgewise, it's rather hard to do that.
When all's said and done, Rachel was trying to be polite and engaging while Lowry was just trying to 'win'.
Yup she got her keister kicked. No doubt about it.
Two take-aways:
1. You know she's doing something right when the right so obviously hates her. I expected Lowry to foam at the mouth any second.
2. Never refer to the $700 billion as cuts. They are SAVINGS. Stop the debate until the opponent acknowledges that. Then go to the real issue - the Romney/Ryan plan to end Medicare.
I guess different people see different things. No one "won" anything in my eyes. Lowry didn't win a rhetorical battle with that exchange.
Rachel getting her keister kicked? Hardly. That would have occurred if Lowry had presented a more cogent argument that highlighted the flaws of Rachel's point. That didn't happen. What I saw was someone resorting to juvenile, desperate tactics because he knew that was his only shot. Saying he got the best of Rachel is like saying Mike Tyson got the best of Evander Holyfield because he bit Evander's ear, when in reality they both looked like crazed and desperate nut jobs. The whole exchange was more annoying than anything else. And David Gregory should have had more control of the panel and not allow that kind of silliness.
Rachel's mistake was trying to reason with a fool. And not being willing to play dirty and be deceitful. But I can't blame her for that.
We have to stop claiming victory for people who are willing to be jerks and claiming defeat for those who aren't willing to be jerks.
Maddow was so ignorant she didn't have any idea that Obama took a third of a triilion dollars from Medicare to pay for Obamacare. That's why Lowry made her look so dumb. It was Lowry that was trying to reason with a fool. Of course what would you expect from A GREAT TV POLITICAL HOST when her entire audience has two or three hundred people.
Rachel please follow the Money, why paul Ryan dose not want to reduce the size of the military.
Three companies win Federal Contractor Awards
MADISON, August 2, 2012 – Governor Scott Walker announced the winners of the annual Governor’s Federal Contractor Awards, which were presented to Bentley World Packaging, Milwaukee; Dental Health Products Inc., New Franken; and Nagel Architects, Elmbrook. These awards recognize state firms that have shown significant growth in their federal sales and are outstanding suppliers to the federal government.
“These companies have worked hard to obtain and build success in a competitive federal contracting environment,” Governor Walker said. “Their efforts have helped spur economic growth and job creation in Wisconsin while providing quality services and products to federal agencies. I appreciate their contributions to our state.”
“In fiscal year 2011, Wisconsin companies won over $7.2 billion in federal awards, which placed the state at 22nd in the federal contracts award ranking. This is a significant change from 10 years ago when Wisconsin ranked 42nd in federal sales. These dollars are bringing significant economic success to our state,” said Aina Vilumsons, executive director of the Wisconsin Procurement Institute.
“The federal market is very challenging and very demanding. For those businesses that can meet the challenges and the requirements, the government can be a very good, long-term customer,” she added.
About the Award Winners:
Large Business Contractor, Bentley World Packaging Ltd., Milwaukee
Since 1942, Bentley World-Packaging, Ltd. has grown to be among the Midwest’s largest export and military packaging firms. The company’s services include export, domestic and military packaging, warehousing and distribution, and engineer consulting services and logistics management. Bentley has grown to more than 500 employees nationally with more than 340 in Wisconsin. Bentley has long been a mentor to many developing federal contractors in Wisconsin and a supporter of many outreach and contractor educational efforts. Bentley has been the recipient of one of only seven awards given by the United States Army Troop Support Command for “Outstanding Service in Operation Desert Shield/Storm” and has received award recognition by the Defense Contract Management Command North Central for Contractor Support.
Small Business Contractor – Dental Health Products Inc., New Franken
Dental Health Products, Inc. (DHPI) was founded in 1991, and is now the sixth largest distributor of dental supplies in the United States, and the second largest provider of daily dental material to the Federal Government. They represent more than 600 manufacturers, and carry 60,000 dental merchandise and equipment products. DHPI entered the Federal Dental Market Segment in 2001. Since then, DHPI sales to the Federal Government have grown to over $7 million per year. In February of 2012, The Defense Logistics Agency awarded DHPI a five-year, $45 million contract for dental merchandise and equipment. DHPI now employs over 170 people.
New Federal Contractor, Nagel Architects, Elmbrook
Nagel Architects is a CVE-verified Service Disabled Veteran Owned Small Business architectural design firm with experience and expertise in a variety of complex project types, including healthcare, institutional, commercial and lab planning and design. They have tripled their business over the past four years and increased employment at a similar level. Their federal clients include the Department of Veterans Affairs, the USDA, Naval Facilities Engineering Command and the US Army. They are currently working as a prime contractor and as a subcontractor on a variety of contracts with the VA in six locations regionally and are providing design services to the Army at Rock Island Arsenal. They are currently mentoring several other small businesses in the federal market.
Robert Shrum wittily observed, "Ryan will make the tough choices all right; they will be tough on the middle class."
Ryan is another naif entranced by Ayn Rand. Deliver us from those of one book.
Tony Times. You must not be over 40. If you were you would realize just how genuinely stupid the Romney Ryan suggestion is. My insurance guy tells me that I am going on Medicare next spring when I turn 65 eventhough I have no plans to retire. He tells me I can't afford to stick with our current plan.
My point is that they will spin it that the voucher program is voluntary therefore, it will not impact those who choose to stay with Medicare. However, many people will choose to go that route anyway thinking they will get better healthcare. If many do that what impact will that have on the financial viability to the entire Medicare program? This is just like them wanting to give those on Soc. Sec. an option to have private accounts. If many did do that then that would impact the financial viability of Soc. Sec. This is them trying to do the same thing to Medicare.
Ron, you seem uninformed. The Ryan plan doesn't change medicare one iota for anyone over 54. He says this is justified because the plan as it is was promised to seniors and he won't go back on that. The plan for those younger is the same as provided to congress! Since medicare won't be there for younger people anyway, he wants to create a plan that will be there.
If you believe that the Republicans won't extend this to misguided crap to more and older people you don't know Republicans. Anyway my kids are in their 30s and early 40s and they have been paying in to medicare and social security their entire lives. I guess they are going to be hosed because our politicians can't tell rich people to pay a little more and they lack the balls needed to tell the Defense department to make do merely with a big army instead of an insanely big army.
By the way, you try finding affordable insurance over 65 at any price. The f**king voucher is a joke and Ryan knows it.
Always nice to have someone come in from the outfield and show us how stupid stupid has to be to be stupid enough to believe a Republican.
Here's an idea... require that all Congress critters and their dependents be covered under Medicare (the same coverage as all other Medicare recipients, not some special high paying Medicare plan for Congress members) effective their first day in office, and that they no longer have access to the plans that most Federal employees have... They can buy their own plan if they choose, but Medicare is still their PRIMARY carrier and the government pays nothing towards any other plan they chose...
Betcha Medicare would be fixed in a hurry, after they got turned down by most doctors who refuse to accept Medicare patients because of the low payments.
Many voters are fools! They don't pay attention. They vote for all the wrong reasons. They even vote against their own self-interest. Anyone have any ideas about how to make them actually use their brains when voting. All our futures depend on it!
In 1776 many Americans acted against their own self-interest. The problem with the Democratic party is that they underestimate the will of the people to do the right thing. Liberals believe that it's all about dependency and everyone will vote for handouts. The Ryan choice futher defines the choice in this election to be either for the principles that made America great, or the equal misery of social justice that socialism provides.
Are you really as ignorant a moron as you appear? You're really failing as a new troll here, idiot boy. Better trolls, please! Where's Pooper?
By the way, you know NOTHING (other than what you learned in your home schooling "history") about why people did anything in 1776. My six-times great grandfather was there, when yours were still hoping the local lord would let them plant potatos somewhere.
What's your point - since they did it in 1776 we should do it now too?
Killing the middle class and leaving the poor to eat dirt are principles that made America great?
Put the cup of Kool Aid down, dude.
@OutfieldDan: It's not that democrats want people to be dependent on the state. No, in reality it is the darling of conservative thinking, -the free market, which favors this. Otherwise, why would Wall Street and investment banks move their money (and our jobs) to our number one trading partner China, -where every man, woman, and child is a slave to the state?
I'm asking conservatives to put their money where their mouth is. IE put patriotism before profits.
Are you talking about liberals? I cannot believe what I read here. You are so disillusioned into thinking that government is going to do everything for you and it doesn't cast a cent for you. Well the government is out of money and cannot tax the so called rich and businesses anymore. They already are paying the greater share of taxes. Obama has already come after you but you are too stupid to recognize it. He stole from the SS fund to pay for his O care leaving even less money for you to retire on. He is taxing everything he can. Raising taxes on businesses, capital gains, corporate taxes. This all affects little old you while he gives your money away daily to his special interests like worthless unproven green energy, high speed trains to nowhere and increasing welfare rolls daily by encouraging people to sign up as if it was a great accomplishment. This all affects little old you. you who think Democrats are there working for you.. they are not. As they make you more dependent on them they destroy you bit by bit till you have nothing.. Check out Europe in the last 75 years, The Soviet Union and Obama's buddy Chavez. Where are these countries going today and what problems do they have. It is trright there for you to see but you ignore. What will it take for you to see that free market capitalism, individual freedom and limited government with a safety net for those who need it allowing those to pursue their dreams provides best for all. This has worked in the past and has worked for us. True it is not perfect but much more perfect that the government meddling in the economy and our social lives.
As I said, I'm asking conservatives to PUT THEIR MONEY WHERE THEIR PIE HOLE IS.
Example number 1: Conservatives scream about their tax money or insurance money possibly supporting either abortion or contraception. H0W MANY OF YOU WHO THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE have called your stock broker or the investment manager of your retirement fund to demand they stop all investment in China? -Right, none of you did that. And China is the number one purveyor of forced abortion and contraception in the world. Number one, baby. Not only your money, but the purchasing choices you make every day support the number one purveyor of abortion and contraception in the world.-You are fully vested in China while you scream about your tax money or insurance money being used for abortion. You're nothing but a bunch of clueless, misled hypocrites.
Example 2: They call it COMMUNIST China for a reason. The government of China takes "from each according to his ability, and distributes to each according to his needs". And you should thank the God of Capitalism, because otherwise most of the poor workers (slaves really) who make things for Wall Mart and Nike would have starved to death. Thus there would be no cheap labor force for Wall Street to take advantage of to GROW your hypocritical investment dollar.
So put your money where your mouth is. -Or shut your pie hole and STOP pretending you can have your cake here and eat it over there.
Bring on the Debates!
Um ... as long as anyone tunes into and believes anything the Faux News says on any political issue, they will be misled. The talking heads there get everything they need straight from the GOP/Tea Party press releases. So yes, the facts will be distorted on the Medicare coverage. I watched several of the Sunday Morning news shows. I heard the GOP hacks on one channel, then switched to Faux and and heard the mendacity repeated AS news, not as quotes, but AS NEWS! Sickening.
This election is not about Medicare/Medicaid, it's still and always will be about JOBS AND ECONOMY. Just tell that to the those people that are harassed by debt collectors day and night because they're unemployed and can't pay the bills. We know that President Obama has failed on the economy but let not your heart be troubled, help is on the way. Mitt Romney will show us the money, he will bring the kind of prosperity that would solve away all your financial difficulties. Cheers.
The sad thing is, she's not being snarky. People like Cindy truly believe that prosperity will magically rain down upon them when Mittens is sworn in. By magic. And you can't reason with folks who are this monumentally out-of-touch with reality. It's all magic and rainbows and unicorns that fart butterflies in their world.
When people say "god bless America", to me, it now means "god, please protect the USA from fools like Cindy".
That SOUNDS good. However, the evidence of the 2000s shows the exact opposite to be true. Just because you say it does not make it true.
I couldn't disagree more, Cindy. It's VERY MUCH about the future of SS and Medicare. Especially now that you have someone on the ticket with a plan to essentially gut both programs. (Privatizing SS and using vouchers for Medicare won't kill them right away, but they'll both be strangled slowly.)
We don’t need Ryan-Romney's radical overhauls of Social Security and Medicare. What we need is funding for these programs. They function perfectly well. We need to go back to our pre-1993 approach to ensuring adequate funding by adjusting tax rates based on the projections for benefits to be paid out versus the amounts paid in through tax withholding.
The programs work fine as they are. People support their continuance.
Take someone who is now about 35 years old. Do you think that in about 30 years, they’re going to be more concerned with the fact that they paid in a fraction of a percentage point more from each payroll dollar--or paid on a higher earnings ceiling--over the course of the intervening years? Or will they be more concerned about the adequacy of their benefits?
I’m guessing that those 60-65 year olds will be thrilled that legislators were farsighted enough to raise rates slowly and almost imperceptibly over time to provide the funding for a benefit that will allow them a reasonable standard of living.
Cindy, it's a shame that you feel you must lie. Who turned the economy around, even though it's not completely back? Presiden Obama, and no thanks to Republicans who have done nothing about jobs but sure want to control women. You should remind your fellow Republicans that it is about jobs and they've done nothing to help this problem, but have declared openly that they have no desire to help the American people but only wish to make sure a "Democrat" president fails.
Are you kidding? ALL DEMOCRATS WANT IS TO TALK ABOUT THE JOBS AND ECONOMY. It's the Republican Teabaggers that seem to want to keep the discourse on health care, the way they symbolically tried to repeal the AHC Act over 30 times. Let's not even talk about all those laws against women they've been trying to pass in the last year.
And if you want to talk about jobs and the economy--Hey! It's actually been getting really better the last few months. How about that? A LOT better since your guy Dubya was running the show. The economy is better, no thanks to the Republicans, whose idea of talking about jobs and economy in Congress is filibustering every single law the Democrats have tried to pass that has to do with jobs.
Yes, President Obama created 4 million jobs but we also lost 4 million jobs in 4 yrs with a zero or negative net result after wasting $6T in added debt. Why do you think unemployment is still at 8.3% & gas prices rising above $4.00. Numbers don't lie and I don't think this is something we should all be excited about.
Cindy, when the teapubs cut jobs in police, fire, and teachers, guess what happens? They sign up for unemployment. That makes unemployment go up. 6T in added debt from where?
Cindy, since you seem to like simplicity, let me ask you a simple question:
You're driving down the freeway at 65 mph. Someone suddenly runs out on the freeway 25 feet ahead in your lane. If you hit that person, are you guilty of a crime?
Based on your logic in 11.6, the answer would be "yes."
If you're illegal, uninsured, drunk, YES.
Cindy, you didn't actually answer the question. You, as conservatives are prone to doing, changed the parameters to include things you have branded as bad that weren't part of the original equation so that you can make the answer what you wanted it to be all along.
Does 2 + 11 equal 47? Sure, replies the conservative, because 11 is actually a secret muslim number that denotes their plot to take over the world in 5 years and 2 is the number of blah that means blah blah blah so .... YES, 2 + 11 equals 47! We win!
Cindy, obviously you recognize that you don't have a case here.
Now, let's try again. You're capable of answering a simple question. None of those things applies. The driver is here legally, and is fine. Would you be guilty, yes or no?
Cindy can't help it if she's a Stepford Republican airheaded bimbo who thinks a "golden shower" is trickle-down economics.
@80sGirl-2483822: "People like Cindy truly believe that prosperity will magically rain down upon them when Mittens is sworn in. By magic."
Don't be so sure it won't happen. Conservatives have proven they are willing and able to sandbag the economy if that makes Obama a one-term president. Boehner and McConnell have both said that is their number one priority. And the big pay-off is they might convince voters that progressive ideas and policies are a failed experiment not to be repeated.
Worse, conservatives have some very big backers for this agenda. They have the national Chamber of Commerce, investment banks and Wall Street, credit card companies, the Koch brothers, and insurance companies behind them.
If they want to switch-on the economy to make Mitt and conservative policies look good, they can probably be just as successful as they have been at killing the economy right now. The only way it might not work is if progressives try just as hard to kill the economy under Mitt as conservatives have done under Obama, and I just don't think we have it in us to do that.
They have done this to us before. Jimmy Carter was crushed by the Establishment when his agenda to serve the interests of the People conflicted with the agenda of the Establishment and corporate America.
And as Cronkite would say, -thats the way it is.
You switch on the economy by making making it desirable to do business. Sorry but Government doesn't make jobs. The Conservatives have passed much legislation to boost the economy but have stopped any wasteful spending bill that Obama has put forth for that reason. Taking money from taxpayers and making a fake job does not create jobs. Allowing business to create real jobs is the only way. Obama refuses to do this because giving away money buys votes. Did you ever stop to think that if we have a booming economy we can actually spend money on Medicare for those who are 55 or older and if we can successfully provide for those into the future at lesser expense we are better off. Or would you just like to let medicare go broke and provide limited or no health benefits to your children. Wake Up.
Ummm... my opinion is you're a short-sighted fool. Corporations need to make money over the LONG TERM. If they decide the best way to make money over the long term is to kill off a few progressive ideas today, the way to do that is to intentionally sandbag the economy just long enough to destroy Obama and those progressive ideas he is supposed to represent.
This is roughly equivalent to a football team which dislikes their coach and his policies, -that decides as a group to lose until the coach gets fired. If all the main players are in on it, the coach is doomed.
So even if these corporations lose money today while sandbagging the economy, it would be regarded as a wise investment over the long term. Because once all those progressive ideas have been killed off for good, -along with the EPA and other regulatory agencies, corporations will then have a free hand to conduct themselves as they see fit (rape and pillage) -and the early losses from sandbagging the economy while Obama was in office will be repaid handsomely.
We will probably dissagree on what caused the economic collapse in 2007, but here's my take: There is a symbiotic relationship between employment wages and home sales, and another symbiotic relationship between home sales and Wall Street. If high-paying US manufacturing jobs are outsourced to China by people like Mitt Romney, and those factory workers end up selling french fries at McDonalds, or stocking shelves on the night shift at Wall Mart, their ability to pay a mortgage is decreased proportionally. Well... after Mitt Romney and Wall Street have outsourced a sufficient percentage of these high-paying jobs (for a short-term profit), an economic tipping point is reached and the sales of new homes will stop and mortgages will begin to fall into foreclosure. When this happens, mortgage-backed investments and derivatives based on the real estate market will fail, this ties into the Credit Default Swap market, forcing insurance companies to pay out to cover losses. But they can't pay out because our financial reach has literally exceeded our economic grasp. This is the point where the economy collapsed. All of it is due to insufficient regulation, lax oversight, and plain old greed.
And you want more of that?
Muddling the issue, trying to confuse voters about which side wants to "cut Medicare" has a downside for Romney. (As if voters don't know which side is usually trying to kill the program.)
When people are confused, they tend to stay with the status quo. They're fearful of what change might bring, so they vote for "no change." That doesn't seem to work in Romney's favor.
American business convinced pension holders to accept changing pension plans from defined benefit to defined contribution -- Medicare and Social Security discussion is a replay of the same fundamental choice. Great cost containment -- to the disadvantage of the beneficiaries.
Which is why the slogan is: If you like your your 401(k), you're going to love our Social Security plan!
The repub's have started hitting Pres.Obama of cutting 700 billion from medicare.Well let them tell us if they repeal Obamacare(s) will they give that 700 bil. back to the medicare advantage plan's.I do'nt think so.By the way, Pres.Obama,during his campaign said he would make that cut and won the election, so where's the blood on his hand's?
You're absolutely right, President Obama has already cut $700B from Medicare to fund Obamacare and seniors should be outraged. Paul Ryan's plan for Medicare is just that, a plan and hasn't been implemented yet and can still be revised. Mitt Romney's plan is the one that matters and probably would incorporate some of Ryan's ideas to suit present and future Medicare recepients. Therefore this makes it a NON ISSUE.
Cindy's lie #1 exposed:
http://bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2012/08/obamacare-didnt-cut-medicare.html
Robme's plan and his little side kick will offer vouchers to senior citizens, which would:
And who are those 50 million Americans?
All so the super wealthy can get more tax cuts.
You Sin-dee, are a horrible person to try to come on this site to post such bull@!$%# like you do.
Cindy, you're not even a failure as a Republican troll here. You are too ignorant to know how ignorant you are. You're embarrassing yourself, if a moron too stupid to know they're a moron can be embarrassed. But thanks for demonstrating what a "Stepford Wife" is.
TCinLA are you OK?
Sin-ful,
You are definitely NOT okay.
I totally disagree with Cindy, but she doesn't deserve the childish name-calling. My understanding of what a troll is..a commenter who makes statements just to inflame or insult but not further the conversation. That makes TCinLA the troll, and that's too bad, cause it's so easy to win this argument with intelligence and facts.
@ziggywiggy7: RE Definition of a troll. I agree completely.
Why did Dems allow the GOP to demonize them for this during the 2010 election? Why didn't they set the record straight by saying that third party analysts said it will help the viability of Medicare and direct the money to improve the benefits of the program? Why do Dems always allow the GOP to set the terms and the language of the debate? Why don't Dems respond effectively? Another example is the GOP claiming their policies are pro-growth when they are not. Why don't Dems call them out on that and show how they are not pro-growth? Why let the GOP define the language when it is so false?
I agree with you Tony.
I don't know why the Dems are slow to come out fighting.
The Dems need to open up a big can of whoop ass on the GOP. NOW!
Seems to me it is the other way around. The Dems have the bully pulpit. All they can do is attack and distort. the Dems know full well that medicare benefits cannot be sustained but choose to do nothing. Nothing is not an option. Obamacare steals dollars from us all and our insurance ends as we know it but all you are concerned about is maintaining Medicare as you know it. Can't continue. Someone has to address it and Republicans have tried. Surely we all may have to pay a bit more and yes that includes those filthy rich who supposedly do not pay their fair share. when Liberal morons are asked what they think is a fair share of taxes the rich should pay they come up with ridiculous low number well below what the wealthy already pay in out totally progressive unfair tax system. I suggest the uninformed liberals start reading. do some research and be informed so you can react in an intelligent way to this most important election.
Or, just sink into socialism if you choose. It is an easy route thinking the government is going to pay for all...It just does not work. And who will bail us out when we no longer have anyone to take money from.
American voters are fools, the substandard education system guarantees it.
Yes, most Republicans are obviously the beneficiaries of the "Whole Language" reading program back when they were in elementary school. No wonder the Texas Republican Party wants to take "critical thinking" classes out of the public school curriculum.
Some of us old fogies remember Jimmy Carter setting the national speed limit at "Double Nickels"- 55MPH.
OUTRAGEOUS! STATES RIGHTS!
And, after a while we didn't even notice it.
The same will be true of the ACA- "ObamaCare". Once the average folks start to get its benefits, they will cling to it like their guns and their bibles.
Pretty much every state now has higher max speed limits than 55mph. I respectfully disagree - I think all drivers noticed the 55mph speedlimit and despised it.
Regarding Obamacare, it is a nightmare: 2700 pages, at least 50,000 new IRS employees to check ALL citizens for healthcare documents. We can do better.
Speaking of 'documents', OutfieldDan, would you care to produce even one that proves your "50,000 new IRS employees?"
Outfield Dan: you're definitely living up to the purpose of a Republican Troll: to demonstrate what a moron too ignorant to know he's a moron looks like. Sadly, computers are now so user-friendly that people like you who lack frontal lobes and opposable thumbs can use them. But thanks for the many demonstrations today of what ignoramuses you idiots are. Sadly, your troll grade is F-
I have read that most economists think that self-controlled healthcare and retirement plans are beneficial to the economy, partly because this situation would force people to learn more and make knowledgeable decisions about these important financial products. But it feels pretty scary to imagine to not have the safety of a government promise of basic healthcare. Same applies to Soc Sec - I appreciate the possible economic benefits of smaller government and more private control over these institutions, but I believe that we are ultimately better off with this brand of limited socialism, and maybe more of it.
This sounds all well and good, but the problem is that Medicare has a much, much better record on cost containment then private insurance since does not have the volume to keep costs down like Medicare does. Private insurance also needs to make a profit. That is great for their shareholders, but that increases what the cost to the patients. That will increase medical cost, not decrease it. The sheer economics of it demonstrates that it will cost less to be part of Medicare than private insurance. Also, the private insurance is much more likely to not cover an important medical procedure than Medicare to contain costs. That means that unelected private bureaucrats are worst than unelected government ones. Why is that okay? The GOP rails against unelected bureaucrats setting cost controls, but they have not problem with private industry bureaucrats doing the same. Why?
Easy answer on that one!! CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS! It's all about the respective (But NOT respectable) back-scratching thing. " You fill my coffers, and I'll make sure your bottom line is enhanced." Sometimes known as bribery. Too bad the logical answer for funding doesn't get more discussion--Remove the cap on contributions!
I think we should get this story out in the open now while we still have time to spin it:
Did I miss anything?
Your tinfoil hat is missing
"Did I miss anything?"
I'm guessing grades 8-12, for starters.
Pretty sure that Adam's post was meant as snarkfilled-jest.
Sick-n & deckbose
No - I swear I was wearing it and taking most of my meds and of course I was home-schooled using David Barton history books. Must be the cheap imported tinfoil I've been using since Romney closed the USA plant.
But really - you know the Rep Super Packs will come out with something outrageous about a week before elections.
sarcasm noted:
However-
Last week some real tinfoil hat reporter on Glen Beck said Obama went to school in Indonesia, where ONLY Indonesian citizens can go- so he renounced his US citizenship!
Adam: It was a good joke, but I find nowadays that a good joke and a wingnut Republican are often indistinguishable, so it's a good idea to put "/snark" at the end to save us all the guessing. :-)
TCinLA,
Good advice, kindly offered - however I'll will probably continue to risk "friendly fire" rather that explain a punch line.
Orson Welles ran into problems too in 1938.
Still - all one has to do is click on a poster's handle and view their past posts.
We should all try to get as much enjoyment out of life as possible in the next few months - if the Romney/Ryan ticket wins and Republicans get a filibuster proof Senate - there will truly be "no joy in Mudville".
(Now if I can just find my tinfoil boxer shorts ...)
Adam_Selene
RE: "Did I miss anything"
Well, there was that odd neocon rumor about Obama completely defunding the military in order to double the size of the EPA, the ATF, and the IRS...
/snark
Universal, single payer insurance. We enjoy it in Canada. It isn't perfect but we do sleep better at night.
That's because you live in the civilized sector of North America, though your "Conservatives" are starting to look like Republican wingnuts, and most particularly your "Reform" Party looks like the Tea Party.
Yes that is why Canadians come to the US for healthcare.
Life experience can make a difference in the level of one's empathy. For instance, did you hear about it, or see it on TV, or were you there and actually lived it?
The Ryan/Romney ticket once again reflects the privileged society in our culture. Attorney father, home on the hill overlooking the town ... or Major CEO and a state Governor for patriarch generated comfort and class.
Joe Biden - modest economic roots - a working class kinda guy.
Obama, who when young, was known as Barry Dunham. He was raised primarily by his mother who was an intellectual and a person willing to cross racial lines for her own sincere reasons of heart and mind.
Do you think it would make a difference in your view of the world if you grew up to be coddled, nurtured, and bathed in the affection of a large and powerful family, or have your experience be that of a mixed race kid, from a failed marriage and a broken home, raised in different parts of the world - where you are considered a foreigner, and an outsider ... I believe Obama's experiences forged the unique person that he is - who wanted to be a community organizer and learn about our Constitution and then teach it on a University level, and the long list goes on.
It's reasonable to believe that he has reached an understanding of how society can and should work. When he came up with, "Grow the economy from "The Middle, Out" , folks said: "What?"
As my old friend Ted Bates once said about Reaganomics: "That trickle-down effect ain't even DRIPPED on ME yet".
Joe Biden's a dope.
Jon Stewart was having that same discussion with Chris Rock the other day .
They wondered how can they raise their kids as privileged, yet give them the life experiences that they both experienced growing up poor.
If you grow up rich , it affects your world view plain and simple
Ah, look at that, Mr. Outfield Fly Easy Out is now reduced to complete moron stupidity, having run out of all the things he was told to say.
But thank you thank you for being our Designated Dope today, idiot boy. A nice demonstration of the fact you wingers are all 12 years old mentally, permanently.
So that is why Joe is an embarrassing clueless moron. Obviously represented by the same kind of people that elect him. It is embarrassing.
He is a parrot for Obama's socialist propaganda. These are not the people you want to have in office.
No, this election is about the Republicans' vision of making this country into a Banana Republic. The Medicare message is just one of its elements.
Raising taxes on the middle class to lower them on the rich is part of it. Banning contraceptives so there will be more abortions instead of less is another. And then there is that always popular favorite of all war profiteers and theocracy advocates, holy war in the Middle East...another one if you elect Republicans.
Nobody is going to talk about the economy, Mitt, because we are all in agreement that the GOP already killed it during the Bush/Cheney Era.
President Obama has had it on life support until he can convince enough voters that healthcare is a right not a luxury and getting those costs under control could restart the economy in 2014....that's the earliest the GOP moderates would let it happen.
And if the Silent Majority would give the President a filibuster-proof Congress to get the recovery rolling again in his second term, who knows what could happen in this country in the future besides the holy war the GOP envisions?
Mitt/Ryan just might do it for President Obama and the Democrats. Who says their is no bipartisan spirit left in the country?
I think this can be distilled into a simple sound bite: The President's plan cuts costs while retaining defined benefits, Romney's plan cuts costs by cutting benefits.
Sure like to see these cost cutting numbers. The government cannot run a business. Costs will not be cut. They cannot even think about reducing costs for the Post office welfare program or Amtrack. If these were private companies they would be out of business.
Yes, I agree. Rachel did not seem to be in her authority yesterday, the way she is on her own show. And I've kind of seen the same thing on Real Time. Rachel, you are smarter than all these people you have to engage with on these shows. Don't let them bully you! (But I DID like when you stood up on Real Time so you could get a word in!)
Benen is obviously repeating the democratic party lie that the Ryan-Romney plan will end 'Medicare'. It will still be Medicare, just different.
The same as when we run out of oil and go back to using horses and buggies. We will call the buggies 'automobiles', so we still have 'cars'.