When Mitt Romney chose -- or was told to choose -- Paul Ryan as his running mate, he had to realize he'd be pressed on Medicare. After all, the far-right House Budget Committee chairman is widely recognized as the guy who wants to end Medicare and replace it with a voucher program. Romney and his advisors surely knew questions about this were coming, and had some time before Saturday's announcement to come up with their position.
Apparently, Team Romney hasn't come up with much.
Romney was in Miami yesterday -- where there are apparently a few senior citizens -- and fielded several questions about the differences between his Medicare plan and that of his running mate. The Republican presidential hopeful struggled badly.
"[M]y plan for Medicare, it's very similar to his plan for Medicare, which is do not change the program for current retirees or near retirees, but do not do what the president has done, and that is to cut $700 billion out of the current program," Romney eventually said.
Let me try to explain this in a way Romney will understand: if the Romney plan is the same as the Ryan plan, and the Ryan plan includes Obama's Medicare savings, then the Romney plan includes the same Obama policy that Romney is condemning.
Romney can support the president's policy that strengthens Medicare, or he can oppose the president's policy that strengthens Medicare, but he can't support and oppose the same policy at the same time.
Being president is really difficult; understanding the basics of the Medicare debate is pretty easy. In this case, either Romney has absolutely no idea what he's talking about after six years of running for president, or he thinks voters are ignorant fools.
Ryan's ambitions of privatizing Medicare and Social Security out of existence will make it difficult for Romney to compete in the Sunshine State (and Iowa and Pennsylvania, which also have large elderly populations). If the Republican ticket is going to overcome its self-imposed problems, it's going to have to do better than it did yesterday.
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it's number two, sadly
And what's more, he's right. It's not like anyone is going to tell them otherwise.
Yeah, sadly, that IS true. When most voters are getting all their "facts" from FOX News, they vote ignorantly, and Romney counts on that.
On the other hand the strategy of Obama and most Democratic candidates is to get the real information out there so voters know the real facts, but there are very few media outlets who are interested in explaining the facts in detail enough for most voters to understand.
Oh... did you hear Snookie is going to call her baby Shewanna?
I disagree, I think it is both.
I think he also believes voters to be as morally bankrupt as himself. The "hook" is that those presently retired stay on the same system (and nobody talks about the redundancy of administration on that one), so the Repubs are hoping they take an attitude of "Screw you, I've got mine".
Guys, all this denigration of the brains of "most" of the electorate seems to be at odds with both the polls and the Republicans' increasingly frantic vote suppression efforts.
In particular, I suggest you go to both Pollster.com and TPM's polling aggregator and filter out the dailies--all of them, Gallup, PPP and Rasmussen, and get back to me.
And while I'm on the subject, there's something really weird going on with the dailies and the non-dailies that bears scholarly investigation because, in a way I've never seen before, they are telling two completely different stories. The dailies, and the very frequent, if not daily, Politico/GWU Battleground poll insist that this race is close, close, close! Tight at a tick! Razor's edge! And yet, all the other polls, in the aggregate, insist that Romney is dropping like a rock and Obama is taking off.
The cynical part of me wants to note that Gallup, PPP and Rasmussen make their money selling polls to politicians and it's thus in their best interest to make methodological choices which tend to close gaps and generate anxiety in their target audience. And as for Politico, well who gives a damn about reading a racing form when one horse in a two-horse race is an odds-on favorite? On the other hand, it could be that the methodological techniques they're using to push people off the fence an are a more or less accurate predictor of what's going to happen in the end.
All I know is that I've never seen this kind of divergence before.
Quoting my bumper sticker - "Only millionaires and fools vote Republican"
@Steve Anxiety is a great sales tool, it short-circuits rational, ordered thinking and promotes impulse buying.
The core agenda of the modern Republican Party, with its Tea Party core taking over the establishment, appears to be lecturing working Americans and the middle class on how worthless and lazy they are. Mitt Romney's choice of a running mate and choice of keynote speaker for his coronation as supreme ruler of the GOP in Florida show his mindset quite well. Ryan and Christie are legislative bullies, political hacks with no real-world experience -- like Mitt -- that have the arrogance to believe that they know best for the country and that the non-millionaires among us have to get in line -- and preferably leave the country or die from lack of medical care. principled progressive
Chris Christie has real world experience. He was a lobbyist! Shocker, right?
Ryan's ambitions of privatizing Medicare and Social Security out of existence will make it difficult for Romney to compete in the Sunshine State (and Iowa and Pennsylvania, which also have large elderly populations).
I'm wondering, actually, which states DON'T have large elderly populations.
I agree. In addition, the younger generation can't pay the medical expenses of their older relatives. It's not that they're selfish; they just cannot afford it. I'm still chipping in on my adult children's medical bills and I'm nearly sixty-three. It will be strange if, within a few short years, they have to chip in on mine; especially since they don't have the stable incomes to do so. Both have worked since they were teens but the retail and service businesses do not provide the income to support families adequately.
Romney has absolutely no idea what he's talking about after six years of running for president, or he thinks voters are ignorant fools.
I'll take a wild guess and go with the latter .
The fact that he can tell a baldfaced lie in his ad about Obama and Welfare and then have the temerity to say "I'm Mitt Romney and I approved this ad" tells us not only does he think it , he knows it .
It has been proven over and over again .
I do get so discouraged at the stupidity of the masses .
There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity. It's very difficult to make someone -- much less millions of people -- stupid. On the other hand, all it takes to keep them ignorant is to avoid telling them things they need to know.
Speaking of the "stupidity of the masses", the NFL season is once again upon us.
In practice, the quarterback wears a red jersey, so his teammates won't hurt him. During the games, however, the shirt comes off. And, when Tom Brady or Peyton Manning goes down, the backup QB must take over.
Incompletions and interceptions follow. Mitt has been playing the "backup QB" for 8 years now. In the NFL the game is faster, the players are bigger, and they hit harder. No place for on the job training!
And when you have people like Reince Priebus playing left tackle, you'd best have the ability to scramble, or you're going to get clobbered. Mitt doesn't appear to have any mobility.
Since the GOP is taking the Daniel Snyder approach to winning (throw as much money as you can at the game without any regard for teamwork and doing things right), Romney will get the same result: last place.
So, more of the same mindless, lying interest-group pandering from the Ryan-Romney ticket! Who'dathunkit??? When will ALL politicians learn that while all politics is local, all policy is national. What these bozos are proposing will appeal to TP radicals and unthinking evangelicals, while simultaneously creating a failed future for today's seniors and eventually for tomorrow's seniors. There's no debt reduction in the R-R plans, there's no savings overall because they will decimate the social safety net while actually increasing defense spending and corporate welfare, not to mention the damned Bush tax reductions. Targeted messages=national failure.
It's things like this that draw a line under Republican's inability to think in terms other than rigid ideological preferences. They keep sticking to this line despite two very important facts: it addresses a criticism that nobody is making (that Ryan's Green Stamps for Medicare plan will change the program for those already on it), and it assumes that older people are willing to screw their own children and grandchildren over right-wing political objectives (they're only ever amenable to that when it's a vague, scary 'other' who will be screwed). If this is going to continue to be their sales pitch, Romney and Ryan may as well leave the race right now and go somewhere private to cuddle.
And brothers, sisters, friends, co-workers, etc. I'd be on the "grandfathered" side, but all of my siblings and almost all of my co-workers would get the shaft (to pick a simple example.)
Apparently, no one yet has mentioned Ryan has a mom on Medicare in Florida.
I hear 60 minutes decided to cut that out of the interview. I wonder why? Any speculation?
#7
Perhaps because they decided - rightly - that this is a non-issue.
If Ryan's mother is old enough to qualify Medicare than - she is on Medicare.
His proposed changes to Medicare would not affect her one way or the other.
I only wonder why you are wondering.
What does Ryan having a mom on Medicare have anything to do with this? The story is not who gave birth to the possible next vice president, the story is what he and Romney would do if they take control of the executive branch.
The Ryan plan was to split those 55+ off against those under on the Medicare changes, so they wouldn't affect his mom. Classic GOP strategy: divide and conquer.
What? The dreaded Ryan plan doesn't affect those 55+? Who knew?
Heh.
#7.2
And they think this will work - splitting off those over 55 - because they think everybody thinks like they do.
"As long as I get MINE, screw everyone else."
shooter,
it's that evil lamestream leftist media at work again!(sarc)
the point is that his plan would guarantee his mother's demise...
The American people might be ignorant, but they're not all amoral asswholes like libertarians. Republicans want to divide the generations so that the elderly will help kill the Medicare program on their children. The elderly on Medicare who understand their benefits are not at stake are not going to fall for taking it away on their children like the Republicans want to fool them into. It'll probably just further expose the Republicans for the heartless basturds they are.
You know, it's just not possible to fathom the cold-heartedness of today's GOP. It's always had the potential to become this run-away dick machine, but it's truly reached that potential now.
I think I just found out Shooters real identity......at the least I found his theme song.
Oh please. Are Democrats going to run another ad of Ryan pushing Granny off a cliff, and this time it's his own mother? They aren't now.
And that segues into wondering when Obama is going to be serious about the budget. His was unanimously rejected by his own party, unlike Ryan's. It's time for grownups, not grade school. I'd rather have a paycheck President, than a food stamp President.
This is "grownup?" (Sigh--I've been trolled . . .)
It isn't his Mom's Medicare he wants to cut, it's his daughter's and my daughter's.
It would make more sense to brace up the program rather than vaporising it.
..paul ryan's mother is wealthy. would she be subject to means testing.?
Paul Ryan's mother has a rich son to support her in her retirement...derp.
shooter is a troll but he's our troll and at least he isn't offensive. But I do wonder if he really believes what he posts...I have yet to figure out why 2 groups of people can see the same facts but come up with completely opposite versions of those truths. I wonder if some of these threads were face to face would it change the conversation?
"shooter is a troll but he's our troll"
Awwwww...almost makes me want to cuddle "our troll"....almost.
Here's the Ryan/Romney plan for medicare.Picture a 90 year old man laying in the hospital.His nurse wake's him up from a deep sleep.The nurse hand's him a coupon and tell's him he has to call around to different insurance companies to find the best deal.She then tell's him he must have the coupon filled out before they can continue treatment.That's the Ryan/Romney plan.
Yes he can. In fact, he does it all the time. You could almost call it his trademark.
Now, you might like to live in a world where he can't get away with doing that, and so would most of us, but that's not the world we live in.
I love the "I am not changing anything for people over 54" response to the "why are you replacing Medicare with a voucher program" question. That response didn't work back when Bush tried to turn social security into a privatized program and it won't work now. I don't understand why elite Republicans think seniors are willing to throw their kids under the bus.
I have noticed something in the last day or two. One of the great claims made by the beltway media was the Ryan plan is a deficit reduction plan. We need to reduce the deficit for our children so we all need to be prepared to give up something. Well, the Ryan plan doesn't reduce the deficit. It takes the savings from gutting programs for the poor and gives the money to the richest Americans. What I have noticed is that a few of the talking heads are willing to talk about the giving money to the richest Americans part. Not all of them yet, and certainly not the old rich ones who stand to benefit personally from the Romney/Ryan budget, but at least some of the younger ones are actually telling the truth about the Romney/Ryan budget.
Ron, you always post thoughtful, measured comments. And they get a sober head nod from about 10% of the population.
With the other 90% you need KISS- keep it simple, stupid. Because they are stupid. As evidence, they continually vote against their own- and children's - self interests.
I think Americans are willing to do the right thing if they know the truth. They are willing to sacrifice to get our national debt under control, if sacrifice will help.
For far too long, our media has refused to tell the American people the truth about the Ryan Budget. Oh, they tell the turning Medicare into a voucher program part, and that by itself is bad enough, but Americans are willing to sacrifice to get the long term debt under control. At least that is what a lot of older Americans I talk to think. Up to now most of the media elites have refused to say where the savings go. Instead they let us think the savings were going to reduce the deficit.
That is changing. Maybe Obama is pushing the media, or maybe some in the media are just now discovering the big lie in the Romney/Ryan Budget. It just doesn't reduce the deficit. Instead it rewards rich people with giant tax breaks. Romney keeps the capital gains rates at 15%, which we can't afford, but Ryan doubles down by reducing capital gains rates to zero. That's right--zero. Under Ryan guys like Romney wouldn't pay 14% they would pay zero. The rest of us would suffer the lost of medicare and medicaid just to make sure that happens. Think about the arrogance of that.
Ron said, " I don't understand why elite Republicans think seniors are willing to throw their kids under the bus."
Not only that, I am sure that once the Repubs have divided the solid front by getting "AARP" to stop fighting their proposal and it passes, a few years down the road the Repubs would be back saying, "Why do 1 group of seniors get a better deal than this other group (and we need the money that would be saved), so lets cut traditional Medicare. We should put all seniors on the same plan."
delete
Ron,
The problem with Americans knowing the truth is that it is usually buried under tons of BS and it takes a long time to shovel it out and clean it off.
Take the Ryan budget, for example... the media reports it as a deficit reduction plan because they have analysis from Republicans that shows it as such. That analysis is based upon CBO scoring where Republicans instructed the CBO to use wild assumptions of revenues, massive unsustainable cuts to discretionary spending and the assumption that the additional tax breaks for the wealthy contained in the proposed budget would be offset by the elimination of loopholes and deductions which were not specified. But, after all of that, the debt (as a % of GDP) is reduced by 2050.
How do you deliver information like that to the average american?
I know Ryan has buried the tax crap deep in his plan and has engaged in a lot of FUD to keep it hidden, but even a Washington reporter should realize that any "deficit reduction plan" that doesn't, you know, actually reduce the deficit for 40 or 50 years isn't really a deficit reduction plan. The savings are going someplace and that some place is the pockets of the very rich.
I mean why did their parents send all of our Washington reporters to Ivy League schools anyway if they lack basic reading comprehension skills.
It sure is motivating for those active, informed voters who are 50-55 right now. They're the ones who really stand to lose with this stupid, ideology-driven crap Ryan is trying to sell.
I'm going for both. He has absolutely no idea what he's talking about and doesn't see any need to even try because he thinks voters are ignorant fools.
in all honesty, any DNC ad about Ryan should begin with that he was the creator of the PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY SCHEME in the House....that should do wonders for his credibility on CouponCare.
"CouponCare" - that has a ring to it!!!
I've also seen "CasinoCare".
Steve, I go with all of the above.
One would think that he personally would be tired of getting caught on the hop on issues he should be at least semi-well versed in by now.
He never seems to. He's there for the photo ops. In photos, you can't hear Mitt talk.
I don't think voters are stupid, they are just uninformed or misinformed. You have separate sets of "facts" on every issue now a days, and there is no established "fact checking" body that a plurality of average Americans agree to listen to. The media can be blamed (like is typical on both sides of the aisle), but I think it is more of a cultural thing. We are too busy (I call it lazy) to take the time to actually research what the truth is about anything now a days. People care more about who is dating George Clooney rather than how we are going to fix this country.
Gone are the days where people made their own decisions. The meme of today's public is to look to one source to tell them how to think about their politics. That can be Rachel Maddow, Sean Hannity, Wolf Blitzer, their barber, their uncle, or just their chatty neighbor. I think the problem is that people have lost the ability to form their own opinions.
The Romney campaign doesn't need to have a great defense to the Medicare argument because all they have to do is accuse Obama of wanting to end Medicare too. That way it becomes a false positive where both sides are just accusing each other and the people are left to refer to that one person they listen to (as referenced above). The media is too afraid to pick a side (even if one side is right) to call the Ryan plan out for what it is, and half of the country gets their news from a propaganda source anyways.
Bolbis: Many of us have perfectly good critical thinking skills, thank you, and are capable of recognizing propaganda when we encounter it. Incidentally, Snopes, Politifact, and FactCheck.org. are all reliable fact-checking sites; however, people who go to them expecting to have their own prejudice validated are frequently disappointed, and thereafter consider these sites "UNreliable."
Subliminal suggestion? It's interesting that Romney is standing in front of a bus that says, "Believe" on the side, when he is probably lying about Medicare to the people he is addressing.
Apparently neither Mr. Romney nor Mr. Ryan consider the fact that many of us UNDER age 55 have already been planning and saving for retirement and have counted on SS and Medicare as part of that plan. Since 2008, my 401K was trounced, my house lost 35% of its value in the year after I bought it and my property taxes are out of control (thanks Gov. Christie!), I have a Roth IRA which gains no interest and I can't really contribute to, yet I have been paying into SS since my first job at 14 years old. So other than being born to wealthy parents or running for Congress and having lifetime benefits and pension, how should one plan for retirement???
Romney, Ryan and their buddies in Congress all have lifelong security thanks to their long-term relationships with lobbyists. They can't relate very well to people.
Dear Bolbis, I couldn't have said it better. That's exactly what I've been thinking for a long while. The republicans are well aware of this as well, which is why they say the things they do. They don't care if it's true, partly true, or a flat out lie, because in the end, most people won't do the research. This is why the "we did build it" ads exist. Romney knows what Obama said and meant, he's not stupid, but it doesn't matter, because many won't take the time to hear or see the the statement in context. Another example...Ann Coulter exploding over Romney's aid for mentioning Romneycare. Ann simply didn't want people to be reminded that MA's healthcare is so similar to Obamacare. Duh, anyone who has paid attention knows that. They are trying to get the vote of the people that are not paying attention.
There's no need for Palin to show up at the convention. They are all Sarah Palin.
Here are some important points to add to the issue of 55+ being "protected" by the changes.
So Medicare will become constantly weaker year after year, this will impact those on the program right now - this is a very real situation and if you are on Medicare now you should know this and if you are not going to be on Medicare you should know that your future will be ruled by a for-profit organization that will be offering you services in your least productive years when earning a bit more money to get lifesaving procedures will be out of reach for you.
Future enrollees (under 55) will be offered the lowest bidder or the second lowest bidder, that is never the best quality program. Cost and quality are at odds, to get lower costs in the private markets without other support will devolve into a poor choice for most people.
Those over 55 now are sealing the fate of their program that is designed to help them survive, each year after the transition is will become weaker and weaker, and they will be powerless to stop the loses.
For those that say the program is going bankrupt there are two simple choices. One reduces future costs of medical services but not the quality, the other is to raise the FICA tax rate by 1.5% and the entire program is solvent through the Baby Boomer wave.
It is also important to remember that Baby Boomers are a wave, there are realatively more in this demographic than the group directly behind them. As the numbers slowly reduce Medicare becomes solvent again even with the current contribution rates.
Medicare is funded by current workers, by increasing the contribution for a decade by 1.5% it is fixed, after costs go back down it can be reduced again, or we could decide that improving results were worth the investment - remember this is not tax spending, this is life saving work.
There is no situation where pitting one group (55+) against the other (less than 55) will not cause issues - it appears that both will lose more than they gain.
If the choice is a good one for everyone under 55 lets do this right away, now. Otherwise there is no incentive to make it work for everybody and it will fail, and finding that out when you are already 67 is no time to be trying to get a job to subsidize your lifesaving medical care.
Romney may stumble but the surrogates got the memo. On today's Daily Rundown Reince Priebus began the swiftboating by twisting Obama's Medicare savings into claiming the President wants to bankrupt Medicare. Sadly Chuck Todd left it at that, no question or challenge, saying "thank you".
Each one a bigger scum bag then the last.
Yet another Teapublican ticket that either is stupid or thinks I am. When are the electorate going to realize how insulting these clowns are? If they manage to unseat the President it will prove once again that the general public are ignorant, stupid and lazy.
Is anyone really surprised that romney has not yet formed a credible explanation? I mean he's been "unemployed" and running for president for almost a decade and yet he didn't bother to construct a credible explanation of how his business experience prepares him for the presidency. He didn't form a valid explanation for his tax situation. He didn't do the hard work necessary to shore up his obvious weaknesses on foreign policy and national security.
Romneys arrogance and sense of entitlement overtook any sense of reality he may possess.