shooter sure does spend a lot of time here- ignoring us.

It's been my pleasure posting on these Benen threads with you DAY over the years!

shooter is an emotional thinker given to his predisposed views handed to him over the years by persons no doubt resembling my crazy FOX afflicted uncle. He, through his projected ideas, here, is not someone I would choose to rely on during a crisis of great proportions!

Yes, he may be the personification of Zappa's observation that questions, questions, questions in the minds of young people will no doubt lead to calling any vegetable to take care of one's problems of his own making!

We can never account for the moss growing in the canyons of some people's own minds, and when they think Studebaker Hawk is on their side, they can become very delusional! -Kevo

OK, but CHILL, Kev! These people are GIANT A-HOLES! Their "Approval" of this phony "Law" means NOT THING ONE! If people new to the area do TWO THINGS SIMULTANEOUSLY, all the GOP arrogance will come to NOTHING:

First.....all Pennsylvanians who are interested, come together for a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST THE PENNSYLVANIA LEGISLATURE, WITH RECALL PETITIONS ATTACHED FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL. That shouldn't take long, any lawyer can get it together and if he/she is a Democrat I would hope that the work is done quickly and pro bono (free). In any case, at the polls, the Pennsylvanians are mostly Democrats. (What I remember, anyway!) Just---EVERYBODY GO VOTE! Here in TX, plenty----and I do mean EVERYONE WHO I KNOW----of Republicans, are going to pull that "D" lever---and they're the ones warning the rest of us to 'watch out for voter fraud'.....and they DON'T MEAN, on the Democrat side of the ledger! (One guy keeps talking about Bush voting machines, whatever that means....I guess he means whatever lever you pull or button you push, it's all gonna come out a vote for Republicans, INCLUDING EMPTY BALLOTS. I asked him, he said that empties come out Republican, Equifax rigged it that way long ago, some company owner or something. So you GOT to get your butts out there and friggin VOTE! Don't just GIVE this $#it away, this time! Register......Vote.....Keep your VOTER'S RECEIPT.....(Shows your vote in case your precinct wants to see it) and if there's a whole lot of, ah, DISCREPANCIES in the vote as you and your friends know it----then take your voters' receipt IMMEDIATELY to your local Newspaper. Because that way it'll be a done deal, when the paper REPORTS IT TO THE MURDOCH MEDIA. We learned all this from, (as well as were taught BY) Bush 2000, and Bush 2004....thanks, all!

Someone should tell Maddow that the judge was following precedent set by the 2006 USSC case in this regards.

As for #1.... do I really need to bring in the defense Obama used for the ACA case of it being (paraphrase) unfounded for the court to reject a legislatively passed bill?

I really wish liberals would take even 5 seconds to look up the 2006 case law that the USSC already ruled on... it would save these dumb arguments from repeated over and over ad infinitum.

When someone proposes a solution to a nonexistent problem, they're trying to do something they shouldn't. Look to the consequences of their so-called solution to see what they're really up to.

Was this "judge" elected? Is he a Republican? OH, Jesse-Az, do you have a site or link to that case? I wonder if it says what you claim. And as for Shooter242, you're missing the point. Read the first paragraph of this post (move your lips if you must).

This is great stuff. Imagine, Rachel Maddow has to show an ID to get into her building, but showing an ID to vote is "suppression." Additionally, the PA officials have posted how they will help get those who don't have ID an ID. If this is too difficult, please explain why.

Because voting is a right, not a privilege. It is enshrined in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. You cannot make someone have to pay to be able to vote, or create unequal barriers to access to vote among citizens.

Regressives have closed the voting places and offices to get ID's in Democratic districts, restricted the hours in Democratic districts, but kept offices and hours in "Republican" districts.

Why would they do this if the Pennsylvania could not produce ONE CASE OF VOTER IMPERSONATION? NOT ONE? WHY? To reduce turnout in Democratic districts. Voter suppression, clear and unambiguous.

"voter suppression"? please.

anyway, showing ID wouldn't be so necessary if Democrats didn't depend so much on illegal aliens and dead people.

Fred, I'm sure you think your argument is pretty clever, but here's the rub. The point of having ID to get into a building is to keep people out of the building. The point of having a voter ID law is ... oh, right, to keep people from voting.

And michiganruth, did you read that bit about there being NOT ONE case of voter fraud? How does that equate, in your mind, with relying on illegal aliens and dead people?

Mike, the purpose of ID is not to keep all people out, just those that have no right to be there. Maybe it is the same with voting? BTW I am an immigrant that employs 5 people but are not yet a citizen. This year I paid thousands of dollars in tax but still cannot vote. I accept this because I believe that only citizens have the right to vote. Can you provide me with a link to where studies have shown a statistically sound assessment of citizens that have no ID?

Dear Ruth From Michigan:

What part of "no reported in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania and there isn't likely to be in 2012, either" do you not understand?

Zora, we are already registered. And have been, -in some case (like me)- for over half a century.

But that is no longer good enough for the jack booted brown shirted thugs intent on a metaphorical kristelnacht on November 6.

Yeah boy, requiring someone to have proof they're not from another state gets us right back to Nazi Germany. This is a perfect example of why the left should be ignored.

I've been registered in PA for 15 years. Good old motor-voter.

I'm worried about being turned away at the polls, since I'm non-denominational, I don't vote in primaries, or certain elections.

I am there for General elections, though. I'm concerned my record isn't active enough, and I'll get purged from the rolls.

To some extent I agree with voter ID, but, I also believe it should be implemented for NEW voter registration, not existing.

In these times, almost everyone is accounted for from birth to death, unlike many years ago.

If you've been on the books already (for years), and have a matching signature, there shoiuld be no question.

The volunteers will not get any specific training about what ID's are valid, and how to identify a fake ID, it's going to be a colossal mess.

Just what the Republicans ordered, I guess.

Fascist pricks.

I was actually thinking you were a reasonable individual, until that last line. At least you're honest enough to show us you can be ignored too.

poor shooter, little evidence for voter fraud (and what evidence seems to recently be by Republicans) so we have limits on voting because of lies. I'm glad you are happy to accept lies with no question. Nice to see that you're willing to use a strawman argument to advance your nonsense too. Seems that such tactics are all you have. Unless you do have evidence for the voter fraud that Corbet and the republicans claim they have? I'm waiting but alas, after asking many many times, you and your ilk still fail to provide any. Lies are worth getting your way, Shooter?

I live in PA and I had my ID looked at by a voting location staffer. They have no idea if your ID is good or not, though through no fault of their own. It's a joke and *only* intended to inconvenience some so they will not vote. It's rather sadly transparent that the Republicans have only become concerned with "fraud" when they know they will lose without limiting the voting rights of those who don't agree with them. Where were the calls for voter ID back in the 2000s? the 1990s? hmmm, seems that someone is crying wolf for their own benefit.

Yay, I'm thrilled I made his ignore list.

Just calling them like I see them.

This is a perfect example of why the left should be ignored.

Do you understand that in a Democracy no side should be ignored. I realize that the Republicans are buying and fixing the elections on a State and Federal Level in order to create a Republican Regime. You do understand what a Regime is,

1. formof government: a system or style of government 2. particular
government: the government of a particular country, especially one that is
considered to be oppressive 3. controlling group: any controlling or managing group, or the system of control and management adopted by it

Suppressing Votes, Putting our Government up for Sale to the highest bidder and creating a Regime that does not allow for all Citizens to have a say in what our policies, laws and programs should be, is not what our Founding Fathers or our Constitution means. This is not Democracy.

Yes, clearly the threat of a long prison sentence wouldn't be enough to prevent people from driving from another state to register to vote in a state they don't live in and then driving in on election day to vote.

You know this is about suppressing legitimate votes by legal residents of the state who are entitled to vote. We know it's about suppressing legitimate votes. You know we know that you know. And yet, you guys persist, without the slightest signs of nausea, in upholding the pretext precisely the way the people in power in the Jim Crow days persisted in upholding the threadbare pretexts underlying "literacy tests" and poll taxes.

Yeah, clearly we're the ones who should be ignored.

There's another problem in implementing VoterID -- it turns a nonexistient Voter Fraud issue into a very real Identification Fraud issue, in that at the very least, you now have to train all these poll workers on how to spot phony IDs. Some states are still having issues implementing RealID. And who didn't have (or know someone who had) a phony ID in high school?

The next logical step is to begin "chipping" everyone.

velkyn, here you go. Now you and anyone you give this to will know if you have a valid ID or not. Please note the sections stating no birth certificate or money required for an ID.

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/voter/voteridlaw.shtml

Actually Steve, what we know is that you are full of baloney. You think there's some sort of mystery as to why so many Illinois license plates are seen at Wisconsin polling locations? Hint, it's because it's so hard to get caught, and we also know that you know that, and we know you know it.

And since you mention it, a literacy test may be a questionable prerequisite to vote. On the other hand, a civics test should be mandatory.

ah, any evidence for that widespread voter fraud that Metcalfe, Corbett, et al claimed was the reason for the Voter ID law? Any at all, Shooter? Let's see what does your website show? Oh yes, the fee for the ID itself was waved, but you still have to have one of the following to get your ID at all: cert of citizenship ($600/$345 for a replacement), cert of naturalization($595/$345), Birth certificate($10) or a passport (cost: around $70 last time I got one). If you don't have one of these then you must, in person:

• Tell the PennDOT customer service representative they are a Pennsylvania native who needs a photo ID for voting purposes, and do not have a certified copy of their birth certificate;
• Sign an oath/affirmation that they do not have an acceptable form of ID for voting purposes and the photo ID is needed for voting purposes;
• Show a Social Security card and two proofs of residence, such as a deed, lease, tax bill, or utility bill;
• Fill out a DL-54A form requesting a non-driver photo ID and;
• Complete the HD01564F (Request for Certification of Birth Record for Voter ID Purposes Only) form, which collects information such as birth name, mother and father's name and place of birth. This Department of Health form is available at all Driver Licensing Centers.

PennDOT will then forward the completed form to the Department of Health, which maintains birth records. After verifying the birth record is on file, the Department of Health will securely transmit this information to PennDOT. PennDOT will then notify them by letter that their birth record has been confirmed. They may then return to any driver license center, with the above noted documentation, to receive your free photo ID for voting purposes. This verification process will take about ten days and does not require the payment of a fee.

People must go to a Pennsylvania ID center to request this form. Golly, too bad if you work hours that prevent this or simply can't get to one. How long will this take??? No times given. And those who still don't have birth certificants for the department verify against?

So, as we see, your claims are dependent on trusting the same state gov't who doesn't want you to vote to decide that your affadavit is okay. My goodness, how convenient!

and then we'll have GOP/TP insisting that we were still born in Kenya. My all the whining that would happen if anyone but a Republican tried to pull such nonsense.

All you need is a SS card and two examples of residence. And yet here you all are determined to paint people needing ID as totally incapable, barely sentient beings. Why would you imply these folks are incapacitated? How insulting.

Takes about 10 days, Velkyn. Oh, and it's free. I'm surprised you bothered to paste the text of the process in your post without reading it. Ok, maybe not so surprised...

This process is not as difficult as you make it out to be. Quite simple, really. Give me an example of someone that couldn't complete this process, legally that is, but would still bother to get to a polling place on election day.

If have to get copies of their Birth Certificates that is not free. What happens if they were born at a time when there were mid-wives and there is no record of the birth. The process may not be difficult for you, but than they are not you.

Amendment XIV (1868) Section 1.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

That apparently wasn't an issue for this judge, though. He was just recently re-elected and can't run again because he'll turn 70 during this term and will face mandatory retirement.

But yes, overall I agree, our system of electing judges is ridiculous.

I'm disgusted too, Freddie. I wish I could say I was surprised, but as someone who's observed the Pennsyltucky Judiciary for years now...

welcome to Pennsyltucky, "Land of Giants" /sarcasm

;-(

Disgusted here, too, [or make that three!] That fact of the matter is that we DO show I.D. to vote in PA, it just doesn't have to have a picture. If it doesn't have a picture then you have to have more than one i.d. showing your name & address - like utilities bills; a lease; etc. THEN you have to sign the book next to where you signed the last time you voted and the signatures have to match. If you move, then you start over with showing i.d. and sign the book at the new polling place.

In Phila. where population is dense, we have polling place on practically every corner. E.g., I vote around the corner in the gym of the local public grade school where there are at least 4 polling tables and 8 voting machines. I have voted at the same table/machine for the last 11 years and the same neighbors man the tables.

So showing them my picture changes nothing. I still have to sign the book next to my signature from last time AND THAT WILL DETERMINE IF I AM WHO I AM SUPPOSED TO BE not a picture. This law is bogus and everyone knows it.

As to the guy above - who shall remain nameless - who states it costs nothing to get the I.D. - it costs to get the documentation you need to get the i.d. and it costs to get to the MVB. Also, I know old folks who were charged $30 to get the i.d. because they didn't know they weren't supposed to pay and the MVB personnel didn't know either.

I did hear that GuvJustCloseYourEyes said something about changing what documentation you needed to get the i.d., and if that is the case, then that proves that showing that i.d. at the table would work also because it's more likely your neighbors working the polling booths will know you than the clerk at the MVB!!!

This I.D. law was supposed to be backed up with another plan by the rePUGnicants to change how our 23 electoral votes would be counted, e.g., giving a county with only 30,000 voters 1 vote and a county with 2,000,000 voters 1 vote. As if a majority 23,000 rePUGnicant votes in one county equaled 1,500,000 Dem majority votes in another county. Giving the rePUGnicants the chance to divide up the 23 electoral votes instead of voting a TRUE majority.

This is the party that screams about the Constitution and the Founding Fathers and the Flag and Patriotism and how they are the only ones that have any respect for it. It's disgusting what they are doing in all aspects of our government - Repugnant! All of it.

Disgusted doesn't begin to describe it, but, really, are there any words that can express it? If every concerned citizen feels as I do, the rePugnicants may find they've awakened an angry sleeping giant and they won't be happy with the results!

Tell me about it. Doesn't it suck when it's harder to cheat?

Prove to me that any actual cheating has been going on, Steve. And by that, I mean show me documentation of actual voter fraud -- NOT voter registration fraud, which is a completely different thing, and which is a problem but which won't be helped by voter ID laws anyway -- and then we'll talk about exactly who is "cheating" here.

What cheating?? Where is it?? And getting a copy of your birth certificate is expensive if you're on a budget, and takes weeks, not days, to get. A passport costs quite a bit, you have to buy your pics and your paperwork, and it takes a while to process that, too. And...why do we need all this extra paperwork/ ID again? Oh yeah. For a problem that suddenly magically took wing during an election year...ummm, oh dear, ummmm... And what about states that have mail-in ballots? Are they next? Because anyone, anyone at all, could be using those to vote, oh baby oh baby.

Attorney General Eric Holder has made the issue of Voter Suppression, his prime target, and he is using various methods to foil evil people pretending to be Americans, who in any official capacity, presume to stop people from voting.

And as far as "Mexicans" ? Some of you reading this are too young to remember. But, back in the early 80s, starting around 1982, there was a big outcry that Cubans-Americans would be disenfranchised (from voting in American elections). When SWIMMERS FROM CUBA arrived in November, a couple of days before the Presidential/National elections, there was a ruling put in place. Many of you WILL remember this one: Wet Foot, Dry Foot. That was translated to mean that: if a person arrives here, wet from swimming, and sets foot on dry land, that foot is ELIGIBLE TO VOTE. On the face of it, that's moronic, so it was replaced by: "If a person has swum here it can be well presumed that person WISHES TO BECOME A CITIZEN. In the matter of VOTING, that person MAY VOTE PROVIDED he THEN FILES ALL NECESSARY PAPERWORK TO UNDERTAKE CITIZENSHIP." What THAT was for, was to obey the Constitution which says in one of its Articles that Paperwork should not prevent a person wishing to become a Citizen, from voting in American Elections. Given that, back in the day, NO RED TAPE WAS ALLOWED, in stopping ANYONE'S VOTE...

The Republicans 'don't know this' you say? The Republicans INVENTED it!-----'Wet Foot, Dry Foot' was RONNIE REAGAN'S OWN RULING, because he knew he had way too many citizens outraged by his Republican toss-people-out-of-work policies. Of course, THAT WAS THEN. This, is now, and RONNIE IS NO LONGER IN THE WHITE HOUSE. (But when did that ever stop Republicans from being the stone crooks and thieves that they've proven themselves to be, for how many years now???) So now they're trying to sound like they're making legitimate complaints. I'll admit, I was surprised when I read my copy of the US Constitution and learned that just a wish with a presence and a legible signature, rendered one person as eligible to vote, as any other----but if that's what the Founders said, and I read it so-----well then, like it or not, REPUBLICANS---then that's how IT IS, and that's how IT'S GONNA STAY!!!

Sorry I don't believe this. Cubans were given an automatic green card if they reached land, but not automatic citizenship as far as I recall. And only actual citizens can vote. Do you have proof that people were allowed to vote based on filing for citizenship? Obviously in that case it would have favored the republicans, but even they would not be stupid enough to create a precedence that could help Democratic supporting groups too. Still, I could be wrong. Maybe they are that stupid.

The democorrupts have already overwhelmed the system with voter registration, e.g. Mickey Mouse, Troy Aikman, Karl Marx, etc.,but now they will need a valid ID to use those registrations. BwaHaHaHaHaHa.

Why didn't they request a Judge who was Politically Independent, rather than a Republican Judge or a Democratic judge. It just appears as a Party Line vote. I hope a way is found for your grandmother to be able to vote.

You don't get to pick what judge is assigned to your case.

You can ask a judge to recluse himself based on the appearance of being bias. He of course can refuse to do that, but at least an attempt would have been made to get an unbiased judge.

So is she disqualified because she is a felon or is she an illegal alien?

What is with the trolling? Do people questioning the illegal crappiness of this crappy illegal crap scare you all that badly? And you know, I bet my grandparents would have all been ineligible, too. And no, they were not illegal aliens, felons or even Democrats.

Maybe...

"maybe if I go in my uniform"

Please use a restroom. There are many available to the public.

If the GOP gets away with stealing the election, what will they do next to consolidate their power?

William L. Shirer wrote a good book on that question 50 years ago, that is still in print. I suggest you read the section about the "Enabling Act," and the rest of the material covering the period 1930-38.

Keep an eye on the Dominionists.

I wish they would run on it. According to that "far right newspaper, the Washington Post" people approve voter ID laws 74% to 23% opposing.

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/08/14/why-do-voters-back-voter-id-laws-common-sense-fraud/

people approve voter ID laws 74% to 23% opposing.

Probably the same type of people who scream at the government keep their hands off Medicare

Low or no information (Foxed)

So it's your position that Mexicans are too stupid or incompetent to get valid ID? You guys are really projecting when you call conservatives racist.

Color change in Texas? Do you mean like Ted Cruz, the next senator?

Pennsylvania did a lot of good things, that I believe the people who did them would be highly embarrassed by today to see what has happened - from the good Quakers of Germantown who in 1688 made the non-ownership of slaves a condition of membership in their Meeting (effectively telling you to abolish slavery if you wanted to participate in the life of the community), the first group of Europeans in the world to do so, to my three-times-great Quaker Abolitionist grandfather who was one of the founders of the anti-slavery Pennsylvania Republican Party (and so opposed to it that he was OK with his son leaving the Quaker church and joining the Union Army to fight slavery) - I am sure he is spinning in his grave at the thought of what his party has become, overrun and controlled as it is now by The Confederate Enemy.

I grew up in Philadelphia and attended a Quaker school, one chartered by Wm Penn in 1689.

That said, the Religious Society of Friends were trouble makers then- your reference to slavery-and are still trouble makers to this day.

In 2001-2006 the FBI put Quakers on the Terrorist Watch List- along with PETA, Greenpeace, and Catholic Workers.

Your grand dad would be proud!

It very likely will not be overturned by our Supreme Court. One of our 7 justices was recently suspended, leaving 3 liberal justices and 3 conservative justices. Since our judges are elected, not appointed, this means these judges will be making the decision on political grounds and the merits (or lack thereof) of the law will probably not be very seriously considered. As Steve mentioned above, I think the best we can hope for is a 3-3 tie, in which case this ruling will stand. (And even if we had that 7th justice it wouldn't help; she's conservative.)

Long story short: we're screwed.

Hey stupid democrat, We Americans are already doing just that. Or don't any of you Communist Party USA caucusing little traitors remember the shellacking you took in 2010? Well over 700 democrats got kicked to the curb because the have no respect for the rule of law, our Constitution or the American people.

Americans do not need the criminal organization of democrats who fiend for power and tax payer dollars to survive. It is they who exist and survive off the backs of the productive AMERICANS.

All Obama and his cohorts ( who have been ripping off the tax payers for decades) have left are DOPE FIEND MOVES. These criminal frauds have proven themselves to be unqualified, unfit and unworthy of running this country. Yet for some reason these vainglorious smug arrogant *ricks still believe they are entitled to rule and dictate how we AMERICANS should live our lives. LOSERS

Yet for some reason these vainglorious smug arrogant *ricks still believe they are entitled to rule and dictate how we AMERICANS should live our lives.

So NOW we are not AMERICANS? Hey, you supposed defenders of our Constitution: this country was founded on the premise that healthy debate on the issues will lead to a better America for all. It is why we have elected officials in the first place. Seemingly, you wish for no debate at all. It is your country period. Anyone who disagrees with you personally is not a true American. Do you prefer a dictatorship? It appears as such.

The hatred and vitriol coming from the right in this country is getting downright scary. Your numbers are getting smaller but your voices are getting far louder. And history generally shows that the loudest voices generally prevail ... as they did in 2010.

If this were any country besides the all powerful USA, other countries would be sending in monitors to ensure that we are conducting free and fair elections. And from what appears to be going on ... the report for the rest of the world to see would not be pretty.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions. Many of us ARE already working on this. The hurdles are still incredibly high.

Oh, and it doesn't matter if your grandmother is registered if she doesn't have the proper kind of ID. Did the right to life group ask about that? That's the crux of the issue here.

If you want to have any creditablity, the name is Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. But you're a democorrupt so you really don't care anything about accuracy.

Wow, no sense of wordplay or humor there, troll.

...or buying elections, creating a monarchy with lesser citizens like, oh I don't know, WOMEN, BLACK PEOPLE, HISPANICS, LGBT, POOR...that will eventually be shackled to do their bidding, declaring war on nouns, spending into oblivion and blaming it on the democrats, gas lighting the public, etc, etc, etc....

Hate to break it to you, but in Presidential elections, there is NO right to vote, only the right to not be disenfranchised due to sex or race.