I was chatting with a friend of mine last night who works in Democratic politics, and looking ahead, he was feeling pretty optimistic about the 2012 elections. As he sees it, the pieces are largely in place -- President Obama has weathered the attacks and remains in the lead; Mitt Romney is not well liked; and Paul Ryan's radicalism only further tips the scales.
The recent economic data is pointing in the right direction; the post-Ryan bump was even smaller than expected; and Medicare is suddenly topic #1. Why shouldn't Dems be happy?
What my friend couldn't explain is how Democrats expect to succeed if Republicans rig the electoral process. Did everyone see Rachel's lead story last night on Pennsylvania?
We talked a bit about the state court ruling on voter-ID yesterday, but Rachel's explanation is worth keeping in mind:
"Seriously, the judge's reasoning was that hundreds of thousands of people in Pennsylvania who do not have this kind of ID will be provided it by the state of Pennsylvania before the election. This of course requires that the state can handle that influx of work, requires that all of those hundreds of thousands of people in Pennsylvania are going to have the documentation they need in order to get the new IDs. It requires that all of those hundreds of thousands of people are going to have transportation and access to the Department of Transportation offices in Philadelphia where you can get these new IDs.
"I should perhaps note here that Pennsylvania has the lowest proportion of government workers to state population of any state in the country. I should note that 13 of the state's transportation offices where you can get these IDs are open only one day a week. Nine Pennsylvania counties don't even have one of these offices at all.
"And perhaps most pressingly, this whole rationale for the judge keeping the law in place requires that the hundreds of thousands of legal voter Pennsylvania residents will know in advance that they have to do all of this in time to get it done before the election. They've got to complete the paperwork, have their ID issued to them in time to vote."
There is a voter-education effort underway in Pennsylvania, but it's been contracted out to a private lobbying firm run by the former executive director of the state Republican Party -- who also happens to be a generous Romney donor.
And the developments go well beyond Pennsylvania.
In Ohio, the Republican Secretary of State is still making it easier for residents to vote in Republican counties than Democratic counties; in Florida, Gov. Rick Scott's (R) pre-election voter purge appears poised to intensify; and there are additional new reports of GOP voter-suppression tactics in Iowa and New Mexico.
I understand why Democrats may feel some optimism about the larger trajectory, but even if President Obama can overcome the lies, the public discontent over the economy, and the extremely well-funded smear campaigns, his re-election task remains incredibly challenging if many of his supporters in key swing state are blocked from casting ballots.
Of course, it also raises a related question: if Obama has been such an awful failure, why do so many Republicans feel the need to rig the elections process in the GOP's favor? Shouldn't they consider it easy to defeat the president in a fair fight?
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This is grand theft of the constitutional rights of millions of Americans. That Republicans have been successful in using a non-existent problem as a means of summarily disenfranchising real people with real votes is breathtaking. How did no one stop this? The conservative crusade to keep as many minorities and people who may vote against them from casting a ballot this year and beyond is as anti-American as it gets. It is illegal, immoral, and a threat to our very democracy. The most frightening thing for conservatives is a fully functioning democracy where every vote counts -- even the ones from black, brown and poor people. - pp
I think you sound every talking point just right. Charlie McCarthy would be proud of you.
Sadly, your points rely on characterizing black, brown, and poor, people as dysfunctional individuals incapable of even the most simple Govt transaction. Wouldn't you further your cause better by taking someone to procure an ID rather than portray these folks as barely sentient dolts?
Blanks,
You are getting more irrational every time you post here.
Really, go back to fox news or stormfront or what ever crazy right wing site you hang out on, because really, no one is buying the crazy @!$%# you are selling.
And sadly, Shooter, the Republicans have to rely on kicking the crutches out from under the disabled in order to win, because that's the only way they can.
Shooter, there is an elderly woman (about 90) that lives in Penn., doesn't have a car, and because of her age was NOT born in a hospital, she doesn't drive and doesn't have a way to get to a DMV to even try and register - did I mention that she's been voting since she was legally able to. By your "logic" please explain exactly how you believe she's supposed to accomplish all of that? And did I mention that she's white. The elderly all weren't "born in hospitals" even if they were white, and African-Americans definitely weren't all born "in a hospital" - because unless they were located near "colored hospitals" they were barred from being admitted.
This is what voter suppression looks like whether you want to admit it or not! This is how real democracy gets suppressed by bullies & thugs - and it's what your party has become - bullies & thugs for the 1%! Sad part is that you are so busy sucking up the na-na from FAUX, Rush, Hannity, et.al you're too dense to recognize that you and your small-minded hatred are being used to further disenfranchise people just like yourself.
If a given situation hasn't happened to Shooter or someone s/he knows personally, then it isn't a valid point, problem, or issue. For folks with a tiny circle of understanding, anything occuring outside that circle will have no legitimacy.
Let me first state I am a senior. We keep finding these few people to use as an example of why something shouldn't be done. For the 90 yr old woman who doesn't drive - at 90 i assume she has to see doctors and go for tests - how does she get there? How does she get food? How does she get to the voting place? How did she qualify for Medicare?
This whole argument against photo id is false.
May I suggest everyone just ignore Shooter. He's been coming here everyday, tossing out sound-bite grenades, then sitting back and watching everyone flail about in protest. He offers nothing to forward the conversation; only to side-track it.
Tom, if this one example was the only one, no one would be all that concerned. Did you not bother to note that over 700,000 people in Pennsylvania ALONE do not have the very specific type of ID (or documentation) that is required to get the new voter ID (the ID they used last time is suddenly not good enough ... why is that?).
Did you also not bother to note that in some districts, the office that issues the ID is only open ONE DAY a week? Did you further not bother to note that in other districts, there is NO office at all? How about the fact that Pennsylvania has few government workers to handle the workload?
Now, I do recognize that it's a lot easier to spout Faux news talking points than it is to actually bend over and stick your own head up your a$$ but do make an attempt to be rational.
Tom, so this slow erosion of our liberties works better for you than any abrupt Rovian coup? Takes longer but the end is the same.
Tom,
You're quite the amusing "senior" in that you make claims that something is "false" and then proceed to have nothing to support sucha claim. This would indicate you are a liar. You're also rather amusingly ignorant when you try so desperately to ignore that people don't always have cars and don't need photo ideas for many many things. Good going there, Tom.
Chairman of the House Budget Committee Paul Ryan and Speaker of the House John Boehner have done more to impede economic growth than they have otherwise. "Fail baby fail policy". Both should be prosecuted for treason, sabotage and espionage. At least those Washington insiders absolutely have to go, never to serve again in any political form, in order for positive growth across the board.
"...fair fight?", are you kidding me?!? BECAUSE the presidential race is so-o close it won't take much in the way of Democratic voter suppression to tip the vote to Romney's favor. Republicans are ruthless but not stupid. So much is at stake for these two very divided presidential candidates.
If not stupid, then sociopathic and lacking in compassion and simple, common human decency. There is no logic in denying otherwise eligible citizens the opportunity to vote in a democratic republic, unless it is to deliberately sway the outcome in one's favor knowing that a fair and legal election will result in loss of power by the perpetrators of voter suppression. It is frightening to think that our citizens have succumbed to the fear of "the other," and are willing to compromise the welfare of the many for the misguided belief that they can dictate to us how we should behave without our having the opportunity to vote for our own self-interest. The solutions are radical; do we have the courage to implement those solutions?
If the Pennsylvania law remains in effect this November, I hope there are poll watchers in the historically Republican areas of the state, to make sure those people get a taste of the nasty surprises inherent in the thing.
Perhaps the first lifelong Republican to get turned away for bringing the wrong ID will call all her friends and suggest they change their affiliations.
Goose, gander, garnish ...
What we need are international poll watchers, because clearly we are no longer the standard by which others are judged.
<blockquote> Shouldn't they consider it easy to defeat the president in a fair fight?</blockquote>
Confederates? Fight Fair? Not a chance. They're the home of NASCAR, where "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'."
put [ ] around the blockquotes to make them work properly on this blog, FYI.
I had to turn that segment off last night . I became so enraged at the blatant theft of voting rights in this country . Goodwin and all that but you know where I am going. Not only Penn but here in Florida where Rick Scott is continuing his purge despite an injunction. If you want to see what a Republican Super Majority looks like , visit Florida . By the Corporation for the corporation with allegiance to the lobbyist
They know what they are doing , attempting an apartheid society where the minority rule.
It will be the rich and Republican and then the rest of us. Frightening times my friends , frightening times
Cheer up sick, there's always pitchforks & torches.. :>)
I may be a liberal, but I don't see that big of a deal with having to have photo identification. Granted, I am middle class and have had a drivers license (photo ID) on myself every single day since I turned 16. I am not trying to discount the fact that there is a concerted effort by the GOP in many states to restrict voting by poor minorities who vote Democrat, but I just don't see why in 2012 having a photo ID is that horrendous of a restriction. You need photo ID to buy cigarettes, alcohol, rent a car, apply for a job (not in all cases), drive a car, and I am sure a ton of other normal daily functions.
The way that these laws are being shoved in at the last minute, that is what seems shady to me. Once again, I am not discounting that the intent behind these laws is dubious, just saying that in 2012 having a photo ID isn't a ludicrous requirement. Where these laws and restrictions seem to have the most problem is the implementation in educating the public and ensuring the public has access to a photo ID if they didn't have one already. Why can't it be compulsory on the state to contact everyone on the voter rolls to ensure that they are aware of the photo ID requirement and where they can get one? It seems to me that these states are relying on infomercials to spread the word about the law, and not doing direct outreach to those who should be notified.
The fact that the law in Pennsylvania was enacted to stop voter fraud, and in a court of law the state couldn't show one case of voter fraud does make their argument fall apart. What I would like to see is Democratic groups using this to their advantage - going out and knocking on doors of these affected peoples to tell them about it and use it to their advantage by saying "the Republicans don't want you to vote, but we do regardless of who you vote for." Nothing gets people to the polls more than rage, and if these people are given help in securing an ID for their ability to vote by a parties operation, not only will they vote for that party this year but they might become permanent supporters of that party.
I may be an eternal optimist, but I feel this can be pivoted to an advantage with a lot of grassroots outreach.
Voter ID's are a big deal.
This affects people of color, the elderly, and students.
Old people don't have birth certificates, or it will be very, very difficult and time consuming to get copies. AND there is the money, mobility issue on top of that.
Once they finally get their birth certificates, how are they going to get to the proper govt. agency to get their ID? Mobility-car-finance issue.
This disenfranchises hundreds of thousands, if not millions of elderly voters.
Same thing applies to people of color often don't have the money to pay for birth certificates or money-transportation issues-time off from work(that is if you are employed).
Same thing applies to students: student ID's are no longer accepted as proper ID, so those students-out of state or otherwise- have got to get a govt ID, making it difficult to vote.
You in your situation, take things for granted. But this is intentional. Period. This is a Poll Tax. Period. This is meant to suppress democratic votes. Period.
OK, you're a middle class guy who already has a photo ID. Let me paint you a word picture.
Say you're a woman in her early 20s working two minimum wage jobs and living in an urban area. You don't have enough money to reliably pay the bills you can't avoid on time. You can't afford to take extra time off of work to go vote, let alone to have to jump through extra hurdles and perhaps wait for hours at the DMV to get an ID.
You don't have a copy of your birth certificate, and you need one to get photo ID. You don't have an internet connection at home, so you have to take the bus to the library and wait 2 hours to get on the computer just to find out who you have to call to get your birth certificate. You print out the forms and find that you have to take out a money order for $10-20 (2-3 hours work, mind you) to get the birth certificate.
Once you've got your birth certificate, you've got to get to the DMV. Your best option is to hope you don't have to pick up a shift some Saturday and can get to one of the offices that is open on weekends. If not, you've got to take a few hours off of work to get there and get back and wait in line (let's be conservative and say 2 hours). The fee for a photo ID in Pennsylvania is $13.50 (2 hours of minimum wage work), in addition to any transportation cost you may have needed to get there and the work you had to forgo to take the time to get the ID.
If at the end of this thing you've got the photo ID you need to vote, you've already spent ~$25 (4 hours worth of wages) just on the direct fees for your identification, and you've had to take off 2 hours of work and pay for transportation to and from the DMV. Come voting time, in an urban district, you potentially face long, long lines to wait to vote, and your employer is under no obligation to give you time off to go vote, let alone to pay for it. Say, again, it only takes you 2 hours, and everything goes smoothly.
By this point, for a person like this, they've had to spend a good deal of time, and essentially have had to give up a day's worth of income, in order to exercise their RIGHT to vote. These are things that you, a middle class dude who already has a photo ID, will never have to do.
Also: as a dude, you don't have to worry about potentially being turned away because you had the temerity to get married and change your name in between getting your photo ID and trying to vote.
In addition to all of fargazmo's valid points, there have always been a large number of people who don't vote. Because, they say, it is too much trouble!
We have had to have a photo ID to buy cigs.alchohol for what,50,60 year's.I've alway's walked into a polling place and voted without "having" to show any ID.They checked my name off and I voted.But now that we have a black Pres.the republican's change the rule's.This country is in danger of taking our freedom's and right's, dragging them through the mud then rubbing our noses in it.We are quickly becoming an oligarchy where the wealthy rule.How could a fed.judge in Pennsylvania make this ruling without any evidence of voter fraud and how much money was added to his bank account?He should be removed from office NOW.Just think what the republican's can and will do if they win the senate the house and stack the court's.Our grandchildren will speak of democracy in past tense whisper's,for fear they may be arrested.
The fact that this law was passed in March and is expected to be fully implemented in November rather than being phased in over a period of a few years reveals the agenda behind it.
Once they finally get their birth certificates, how are they going to get to the proper govt. agency to get their ID? Mobility-car-finance issue.
You forgot "time." These agencies are usually only open during bankers' hours, and there's this little problem of taking a day off from work for the visit to apply for a birth certificate and another to go get the ID.
Because, please note, you can't let just anyone get a copy of a birth certificate -- how do you know that it's the right person? And how do you know that the birth certificate being presented to you for ID actually is the person in front of you? I can so easily see the DMV refusing to accept some random person's birth certificate unless the person in question is accompanied by a parent with ID of her own (or at least that's the way it worked when I applied for a driver's license in Arizona more than 40 years ago.)
Bolbis .... I agree that the biggest issue is having a government photo ID being mandated with very little time to actually allow citizens to get it.
Often it is the time needed to get the proof of birth that is the issue. If you need to send for birth records from another state it takes time. If you are elderly and black you most likely were never even born in a hospital and chances are there is no birth certificate.
Another point that has been made is that it can be expensive to get the proof needed for the ID and many elderly citizens are unable to afford it. Getting the required proof can take time and money so enforcing a law this close to an election is definitely voter suppression.
Fargazmo:
Guess what?? You need a valid ID to get a library card.
Also,
How did she get these jobs without a valid ID? Every employer requires one before putting you on the payroll.
Jimmy Dee- she needs a Social Security card to get hired. And that, my friend, is not a "valid voter ID"
Ditto the library; an address is all that is required. -Get your thoughts organized before commenting.
As for showing ID to buy cigarettes or alcohol- I haven't been "carded" for the last 50 years!
Every job I've had required a Social Security and a current photo ID. In fact, I just started a new job and had to renew my DL before I could start because they would not accept the expired one.
And maybe things are different at my library but they wanted a valid photo ID when I signed up for a library card.
Jimmy Dee,
Congrats on the new job. Really I mean it. May starting a new job be contagious.
The right to vote comes with citizenship, being over age 18 and being registered to vote. That is all.
Do you need an I.D. to vote?
http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx
I don't. Just when I registered and they have folks that work to verify.
Do you need an ID to speak?
Do you need an ID to peaceably assemble?
Do you need an ID to think as you will?
Do you need an ID to be secure in your person and possessions?
No? So, all those who think a photo ID is no big deal, why demand it for the exercise of this one specific right, and none else? The only believable answer is that it makes an effective tool for one segment of the political spectrum to gain and maintain power. That's it. If you think there's something else going on, then I'm a Nigerian prince and do I ever have a deal for you!
I love how people on both sides of the aisle just drink up the Koolaid that is given to them. All I have heard is talking points, and misconstrued comments on what I said. I never said that the intentions were good in the voter ID laws, I was purely making a point that having a photo ID in today's world is the norm. The laws should allow for a FREE ID for anyone who can not afford them. I did not put that in my original comment, but I don't think anyone should be prevented from voting because of a poll tax type situation. My point is simply that we need to move past the victim state of mind on forward to solving the problem. GOP elected states are going to implement these laws. There are judges that are going to uphold them. Whining and complaining is not going to get the elderly or minority voter who is being disenfranchised an ID card. As far as all this complaining about the time it takes to get an ID, well that is the brakes. I lost my birth certificate when I moved across the country, and found it rather easy to get a duplicate - yes it required some time, multiple phone calls and some waiting (as I was born in CA, and lived in RI).
If these laws would have given more time to kick in (like the voter ID law passed in RI that every liberal commentator is ignoring since it doesn't fit the narrative that only GOP controlled governments are doing it), I think there would be less backlash. I want my right to vote protected, and if that means that I have to show an ID to vote to ensure that people on both sides aren't gaming the system, so be it - I will adapt. I am not happy about voter ID laws, and am not advocating for them. I am simply saying buck up and do something to combat it. I am on your side, and you are attacking me like I am evil incarnate because I don't agree with what the liberal machine is telling me to think and say. I think for myself, and that is why I converted to being a Democrat. Lately, I have been thinking of becoming unaffiliated simply because of this "all or nothing" mentality that has permeated the Democratic party (which is why I left the Republican party years ago).
The "koolaid" is that it is OK to require photo I.D. to vote.
The "koolaid" is I need an I.D. for this that and other thing, so it should be fine to have one to cast a ballot. Well, there are people in this country who meet requirements and are registered to vote, have never had to go get something.
You heard of principle? Well, it's the principle… people want to vote, people are registered to vote (verified) and the laws in other states do not require I.D. to vote.
The law got done quickly to require I.D. to vote, but how quickly would the law change to waive the fee? I was also born in CA-I needed my long form BC with raised seal for a passport. Holy cow, I had the one from the hospital and it took a good 6 weeks and a $18.00 fee to get mine. http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Pages/Fees.aspx
http://www.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Pages/ProcessingTimes.aspx
Good thing I hadn't already paid for my ticket and didn't need I.D. to vote, because I couldn't have gone until after I got all that stuff and paid all the fees and I might not get my I.D. in time to vote.
Why isn't the Democratic Party in these states making an effort to get everybody a photo ID? A photo ID is a useful thing to have, so they would be doing a valuable service to many people. "Fresh Air" had a very informative show about this issue on Wednesday.
Did you not listen last night? The FDOT offices where they get they id's are few and far between with many open only 1 day a week . This is an engineered catch 22 . You need a photo id at a FDOT office but it is nearly impossible to get one . That's when I turned it off last night , my head was about to explode
Democrats need to stop wringing their hands over this issue and fight back. All of us have seen mobile libraries, mobile museums, mobile health screenings, and of course mobile disaster services. The DNC and a few well-heeled donors need to set up a fleet of mobile voter registration busses, wrapped in Obama-Biden 2012 colors, that visit every Democratic neighborhood in the State.
Inside would be a complete processing center capable of producing passports, official DMV voter IDs, birth certificates, and even biometric data. It would be staffed by a combination of former State Government employees, volunteers, and new employees. If necessary, the appropriate officials in the State Dept. and Justice Dept. could fast-track the project.
This is a better reaction to a problem. Lying back and whining accomplishes nothing.
Today is August 16. There are 82 days until the election. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that this could work. It's a nice idea, but my instinct says it probably runs afoul of several laws as well.
Joyce, all of that has been happening.
The trouble is: on the gov't side. They don't have the manpower or hours of the day to get everyone processed so that they will be able to vote by election day.
The Justice Department needs to step in now. And sooner rather than later. I think something might happen on that front.
And blanks, you really need to STFU.
You honestly think that any Tom, Dick, and Harry can set up a van and start pumping out "state-issued" IDs? Realism: While there is more liberty in who can do voter registration drives, the government of any particular state would have to approve your mobile facility for provision of ID. Let's suppose in some strange universe that could happen overnight. Do you think the same people that are implementing the laws to "combat voter fraud" are going to put a stamp of approval on this magic credential bus? No way in hell!
I don't know what requirements PA has, but I just got a copy of my son's BC in MA. You have to show picture ID in order to get a copy of the BC.
If the requirements are the same, how can I show photo ID I don't have in order to get a birth certificate so I can get a photo ID?
math-teacher,
I've been doing a little reading on the law. Apparently, the steps are these:
1) Get a driver's license.
2) If you can't get a driver's license, get a PennDOT non-driver ID.
3) If you don't have a birth certificate, first obtain a birth certificate.
3a) If you don't have a photo ID, then have a parent, child, sibling, grandparent or grandchild apply for the birth certificate with their photo ID.
3b) If step 3a isn't possible, then fill out an oath or affirmation saying it's not possible, and submit 2 proofs of residence from the following: utility bill, rental/lease agreement, pay stub, income tax return, bank statement.
3c) If you don't have 2 of those proofs of residence, then you have to apply for a Pennsylvania Department of State ID (the first step in doing this is applying for the PennDOT non-driver ID and getting rejected because you can't provide the documentation).
4) Fill out another oath or affirmation saying you don't have another photo ID, can't obtain a birth certificate, etc. You have to provide a name, address, SSN, 2 proofs of residence, county, and any changes of name/address in the last 12 months.
5) If you don't have the 2 proofs of residence (which by this point you obviously don't, since you couldn't produce them to get the birth certificate), there are other options:
5a) If you're a student, your room assignment paperwork and one bill with the dorm room address will suffice.
5b) If you're homeless, a letter from a shelter you've stayed at will serve as one form of ID, and an EMPLOYEE OF THE SHELTER accompanying you to the Photo ID office will serve as another.
5c) If you're neither a student nor homeless but still can't produce the required proofs of address, you can give one piece of mail with your name and address that's not on the list above, and as your second piece of ID you can bring your ROOMMATE, provided they've got a photo ID already.
So you see, it's all very easy!
Joyce, you forget that in Florida you can go to jail for registering people to vote.
I understand why Republicans feel stricter voter i.d. laws are needed: because they themselves will undertake whatever nefarious behavior is required to elect their candidates. and they assume everyone else is as willing as they are to engage in deceit. Have a gander at how some Republicans just got caught actually trying to stuff the ballot box in a local Massachusetts election: http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/08/15/state-takes-over-east-longmeadow-voting-amid-ballot-fraud-scandal/8vw49dpE5GnDGi9RuCpZ5M/story.html
Down at the Blandon fire house, where I- and a couple of hundred neighbors- vote, you give your name, and they flip to the page in the big book, cover up your signature with a card, and you sign. If the two more or less match, then you proceed to the voting machine.
It has always worked this way, because years ago I REGISTERED TO VOTE. And, at that time, I proved who I was-age, citizenship, place of residence, whatever. The memory is dim- it was, after all, 50 years ago.
The point is, nothing has changed in the past 50 years. Until now. Now we have a multi-state coordinated voter suppression forced upon us!
And the Republicans show false outrage about CHAINS?
There is no more important issue than the attempt to deny the right to vote. The Democrats need to SHOUT about this to the American people. Our right to vote is the most fundamental right we have. This democracy cannot survive without it.
In Rhode Island (a very blue state) we enacted voter ID as well. but there are quite a few id's you can use. Also this is rolled out over 2 election cycles. in 2012 & 2013 photo and a bunch of non-photo ID's are accepted. Only in 2014, the full photo ID law takes affect. This is giving people plenty of time to both find out about and obtain what they need. I am not thrilled with Rhode Island's law but it is much better than some of these other states that are designed to affect 2012. So if you ever hear a republican talk about R.I and voter ID, apples & oranges my friends.
In North Dakota, a very red state, you don't have to register at all and at the voting booths, you can bring as little as a utility bill just to prove you actually live in the state.
And of course, this isn't a swing state, where the "problem" of voter fraud seems to be so very prevalent.
See, I really like the RI idea. Roll it out over time. Living in Louisiana, being 40 and always voting, I can not remember a time when I DIDN'T have to show photo ID. I am unsure of our laws, but we always have to show them. I think it is a really good idea to have to do this, but don't throw people under the bus and expect them to be able to get this done in 3 1/2 months.
John, why do you think it's such a good idea to have to show photo ID? What problem does it solve?
fargazmo, I'd be interested in that answer as well. My husband and I lived in the States for years as Canadian citizens (he's Canadian military). We both had state drivers licenses and US military ID's ... how hard would it have been for us to use both or either to vote illegally? Granted, my husband's military ID looked different from the ID's of US military members but my "dependent" ID looked identical to the US military dependent IDs.
So, why isn't the Justice Department stopping this disparate application of the right to vote on the basis of the XIVth Amenment - Equal Protection Under the Law. If Rhode Island allows two years for its new voter ID law to go into effect, how can PA's and FLA's and TX's and the others be seen as Constitutional and NOT as violating individuals' rights to equal protection on the law for our most sacred right - voting when there are such disparate time allowances for voters to obtain the ID required by each and each being different? Wouldn't the XIVth Amendment be grounds for imposing an injunction to prohibit states from enforcing these laws?
nothing but voter suppression, plain and simple.
If you know people in PA who need a birth certificate, point them to http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/voter_id/20978 (Applying for a Birth Certificate for Voter ID).
It's interesting that a photo ID is required. And if you don't have a photo ID, then an eligible person can apply, but they've got to have a photo ID. And if you can't do that, then you have to submit two documents including your name and current address as proof of identification. Those documents are:
-Utility bill
-Car registration
-Pay stub
-Bank statement
-Copy of Income Tax Return/W-2
-Lease/Rental Agreement
Please note, if you will, that if you're unemployed and unbanked, you're unlikely to have the middle four of those documents. If you also happen to still live with your parents, or be staying with friends or some such arrangement, you're unlikely to have the first or last.
OK - it's time for a National ID Card. Over the next 10 years we get everyone to apply for a (no-fee) US Passport card and start using that as the National ID Card. Then states can go back to issuing cheap paper driver's licenses with no picture because that's what the National ID card does - identify you.
What I don't understand is there has not been a mechanism proposed by the voter-crushing wingers to help those who don't have the ID. A common sense approach to this would seem to be, instead of just passing a law that they KNOW will disenfranchise millions, there needs to be more time for those who are affected, a mechanism for the state to help find the necessary documents, and a provision for, if a person cannot find the proper documents, then have a way to overcome this lack of "proper" documents. I know the motive is to suppress the votes for the Dems, but it seems like everyone overlooks this simple fix, and concentrates on the motive and the fear. With the lack of evidence of voter fraud, the republicans are clearly trying to rip off OUR right to vote. It then falls to those of us opposed to any sort of voter suppression to work hard and help everyone we can to vote. A Free and Unfettered Press is essential to maintain our Republic, We do not have a Free and Unffered Press any more. There are bright spots of sanity, but not enough of them to be heard over the megaphone of Citizens United corruption.
And there is the corruption of the voting machines to consider as well...just sayin'
Update on Ohio-Sec. of State Husted has set uniform hours for all Ohio counties. This story was in our morning paper with an AP byline. Hours will be 8 a.m.-5p.m weekdays for the 1st 3 weeks of early voting which begins Oct 2. and 8a.m.-7p.m for the final 2 weeks except for the last day Nov 2 when they will close at 6p.m. There will be no weekends unfortunately but at least there will be some evening hours and all counties will be the same. Will need to take what we can get I guess.
As far as ID, we've had to use photo ID for a few years. I never understood why to be honest. You've had to register at some point in time to vote in the 1st place. They have your signature & you have to sign in. I would think that if the signature didn't match at that point you could be asked for further ID. But then common sense does seem lacking at many levels of our society nowadays. Sorry for the snark but hearing this stuff day after day does get tiresome & frustrating.
Mass apathy in the 2010 midterms created the opportunity for this grand theft of voting rights. If you didn't exercise your right to vote this is what happens. Trouble is, the apathetic, being apathetic, probably still don't care - and the rest of us have to suffer.
Is it apathy, Slurpidog, or could it be the citizens of the United States simply cannot to come to grips with the horrific evidence that fellow countrymen and women inside our own borders are willfully undermining the greatest nation in the world for their own personal gain and greed?
Yes, I'm pointing right at you, Murdock, Rove, Koch's, ect (the list is long and sad).
NMC, you have a touching faith in the citizens of the United States that they are struggling to "come to grips" (I like that phrase) with the apparently incomprehensible. Certainly many are, but many - possibly more - clearly are not, otherwise how come the Republican party still exists?
It's not so difficult to look behind the curtain to see what is really going on. Two things make people look deeper into their situation: One is personal dissatisfaction with life's inequities; the other is intellectual curiosity. The latter, which characterizes most of us here, will fairly quickly reveal the "horrific evidence" of the nefarious activities of a group of unscrupulous wealthy vested interests, which should be opposed and neutralized promptly. However, we are a rather small - though undoubtedly influential - component of the whole citizenry. The other dissatisfied and disgruntled component, which is much larger, have a harder time sorting out fact from fiction since they are continuously bathed in confusing lies and deception. At least, however, they have some motivation to try to discover the causes of their problems.
In addition to these two groups there are those who are so incapacitated by poverty and injustice that they have virtually given up trying to understand anything. Finally there is the large group of middle situation citizens who are doing reasonably well and don't feel that political issues have much relevance to their lives. These are the ones who, if they vote, will follow their traditional family or religious inclinations which tend towards the conservative.
In summary, the intellectual rigor of the average voter, especially those influenced by religious and sectarian considerations, is pretty low.
...And then there are the 30% or so who don't vote at all. These are the ones I refer to as apathetic.
Not just Democrats will be caught up in this, Republicans will as well. I hope a lot of Republicans get caught in it.
The added burden of marriage name changes for women is a valid point. I paid $21 dollars and weeks mailing time for birth certificates that didn't reflect my name, so then I spent $5 and weeks mailing time to get court records showing marriage/divorce, and now I will spend $60 and unknown mailing time to get the certificates themselves changed, and THEN I can go down and stand in line and pay again to get an actual license in a new state. To do all this just to get ID for the "luxury" to vote will indiscriminantly disenfranchise women...yet again.
Many people have made this point already, but it is NOT easy to get a photo ID in the state of Pennsylvania! I moved here four years ago. When I went to change my active driver's license from a neighboring state, I was told I needed my social security card. Well, that is long gone from a stolen wallet in the late 1980s. So off I went to SS office, where I was told I needed to produce my birth certificate, marriage license, or the like. So I went home and luckily was able to get my birth certificate from my home state (as I no longer live there), after paying a fee and waiting a few weeks. Only then could I return to the SS office and get a replacement card. And only then could I return to the DMV to get my driver's license changed. The total elapsed time was over a month, and it took four different office visits, an investment of several hours, not to mention a total of $50 or so in fees for the birth certificate and driver's license. And I am lucky because I have a car, access to a DMV that is open daily (in rural parts of the state their DMVs tend to be open one day a week), a flexible job, and the money to pay for these documents.
How is a 90-year-old woman who has never driven, lost her SS card, is on a fixed income, and is from a state which has no record of her birth going to be able to do this? The answer is she is not, and that was the whole point. We are talking about nearly 20% of voters in Philly. Ben Franklin is rolling over in his grave, as are all of our signatories to the Constitution.
The majority of our Founding Fathers and signatories to the Constitution would have been in agreement with PA's voting laws. They believed that only White men who were landowners could vote.
The other thing I haven't seen mentioned here is that in addition to having to deal with requests for photo IDs for voting purposes, PennDOT offices are still going to have to deal with their regular workload, i.e., issuing driver's licenses and car registrations, dealing with license plates, etc. That work isn't going to stop just because of the voter ID thing, and I can't see Gov. "Just Close Your Eyes" Corbett hiring extra workers to deal with the crisis. So that's one major state department that will essentially be worthless to PA residents until November.
Slightly OT: Gov. Tom Corbett was aware of Jerry Sandusky's "activities" when he took campaign contributions from the Second Mile Foundation. When is some intrepid journalist going to mention this?
I've seen it mentioned several times, actually. If Corbett were a Democrat, he would have been drummed out of office already because of it.
I don't care what party someone's in, if I know about someone diddling or perving out on children, they are getting turned in to the cops.
so, if PA fails to get the voting IDs to the hundreds of thousands, can the state be sued because the judge based his entire punting of the issue on his assumption that this would happen? Can the election be held in stasis until such problems are resolved?
OF COURSE we need ID. Otherwise those 3 people of evil intent will sneak illegally into a voting booth and God Forbid, pull the handle for Romney. Keep those people OUT!
//snark off//
Stop trolling me, Benen.
Funny!
Who is this Steve Benen, and why do his posts keep following my browser around?
:D
I wonder what this judge's political background is. He is corrupt from lookinga the ruling he has a conflict of interest somewhere. A lot of judges here in pa are in trouble for corruption.
Judges here in Pennsyltucky are elected, and, IIRC, this one is a Rape-Public-CON.
;-(