Just this morning, I noted that Mitt Romney publicly gave his word, on camera, that he would "go back and look" to let us know what tax rates he paid over the last decade. The good news is, Romney really did "go back and look," and elaborated on the findings today.
The bad news is, his answer was horrible.
For those who can't watch clips online:
"...I did go back and look at my taxes and over the past 10 years I never paid less than 13 percent. I think the most recent year is 13.6 or something like that. So I paid taxes every single year. Harry Reid's charge is totally false. I'm sure waiting for Harry to put up who it was that told him what he says they told him. I don't believe it for a minute, by the way. But every year I've paid at least 13 percent and if you add in addition the amount that goes to charity, why the number gets well above 20 percent."
Let's walk through the top five reasons this answer is woefully unacceptable.
1. Romney can prove this claim is accurate, and also prove that Reid is wrong, by releasing his tax returns (the tax returns he already turned over to John McCain). For reasons he can't explain, Romney still refuses. Today's response, at its root, comes down to, "trust me."
2. Romney isn't in a position to say "trust me" since he has a track record of making similar claims that turned out to be completely wrong.
3. Romney's answer only leads to more questions. He claims, without proof, to have paid "at least 13 percent" every year. But 13 percent of what? Does that cover total or taxable income? Maybe Romney would be happy to "go back and look" again?
4. Romney may not understand this, but 13 percent isn't a tax burden worth bragging about. Most of the middle class are not, by definition, multi multi-millionaires with car elevators, and they're paying a higher percentage of their incomes in taxes than Romney is. (Romney, if elected, intends to make sure he and his wealthy buddies continue to pay less than working people.)
And 5. Romney, by addressing the story in detail again today, keeps the story alive and steps on every other part of his message.
Bonus! 6. If you watch the clip, Romney describes interest in this issue as "very small-minded." He just insulted nearly two-thirds of the country.
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the hilarious thing between him and his wife is like...
how dare you peasants question us?
it reeks from every pore of their being.
and we, the peasants are like..
Mofo, just show us the damn tax returns.
Recent interview (abridged):
This man thinks the he should be bragging about paying 13%!
To quote the little wife: “Mitt is honest. His integrity is just golden,” she said.
Gosh, I didn't know organic matter came in that color!
I don't believe him.
Of course you don't believe him, you think everything that comes out of President Obama's mouth is the true. Since what Romney and President Obama both say are in direct contrast to one another, one of them is telling the truth and one is lying.
I will support the one that has actually had a real job before going into politics.
At this point, no one trust Romney any more, if he was telling the truth, he would have shown his taxes a long time ago.
Before Obama was in politics he was a:
community organizer
civil rights attorney
Harvard constitutional law professor
Those all sound like real jobs. Do more research before you criticize Chemdmd
Are you kidding me. What kind of complex do you have that you think Mitt Romney and his wife think of us as peasants.
Anyone who pays extra money in taxes is either crazy or a liar. He is successful get over it. We want successful people in the white house.
This is not news! Quit being jealous and go out there and make something of yourself. I know I am and I hope I am successful as Mitt and will be able to give away 10% of my income to charity. What has Joe Biden given away??? Zip
You don’t have to be successful to give 10% to charity Travis. Read and comprehend your bible. Regular people – give 10% and more to their churches every week. I seriously doubt Mittens gave 10% of his income to charity – which is probably another reason he has withheld his taxes.
He just insulted nearly two-thirds of the country you say? He's done that to other nations so I guess we shouldn't expect to be the exception.
BTW, why isn't Obama talking more about foreign policy - something Romney nor Ryan have absolutely any knowledge about?
He can come back to domestic policy later, but Obama clearly has a political advantage with foreign policy that he should be taking advantage of while we watch the GOP stumble all over themselves trying to unscramble their foreign policy talking points. I need a good laugh!
Because foreign policy isn't an issue that has much effect on people's votes, for better or worse.
Agreed, but there is no opening right now. Domestic issues are the most important to people. Especially when Obama is out on the campaign trail in swing states. It wouldn't make sense to broach that subject unprompted.
In 2008, one of the debate was focused solely on foreign policy. I haven't read how they will do the debate formats for 2012.
But, f the 2012 debates are similar, that foreign policy debate will probably be the best opening for Obama to distance himself from the Romney/Ryan ticket on the foreign policy issue.
Of course, if the GOP stupidly puts FP in the forefront, then Obama can pounce. That's not likely, but with the inept campaign Romney is running, you never know.
All in good time. The Prez debates are set up as follows:
1. Domestic policy (10/3)
2 Foreign and domestic policy (town meeting format) (10/16)
3. Foreign policy (10/22)
The VP debate will discuss both on 10/11.
So Obama's mastery and understanding of foreign policy will be the last of the debates in which he blows Mitt away - just before the election.
The recent "Romneyshambles" certainly provided some breathing room for Team Obama to let Romney's lack of foreign policy acumen speak for itself.
"...and if you add in addition the amount that goes to charity, why the number gets well above 20 percent."
Not sure what his point is, here. Is it that charitable donations are the same as taxes? I mean, I do appreciate the occasional home visit to check up on the well-being of my soul, but LDS proselytizing is not quite the same as, say, health care.
To brag about giving almost as much to one church (his Mormon Church) as to the entire federal government (or federal, state and local governments combined) is also an insult to Americans.
That whole 20 percent figure is still quite a bit below what I pay in federal taxes and what I make all year is what Mittens gets in 15 minutes or less! Yes Mittens, I'm one of the "little people" I still want to know exactly what you've been paying for the last several years? And you're whole attitude that it's none of my business and how dare I even ask, doesn't much help your cause.
I agree with Bill Maher that the Mormon Church is not a real charity. It uses the money for proselytizing, administrative expenses, building more churches or other things that are not benefiting the poor and disadavantaged. The same applies to a lot of other religious institutions.
Do you know of any other branch, sect, denomination, etc. that requires a tithe as a condition of membership in good standing??? Seriously. I don't mean an expectation or a moral right -
Mormons can be excommunicated if they don't tithe 10%
I agree with Bill Maher that the Mormon Church is not a real charity. It uses the money for proselytizing, administrative expenses, building more churches or other things that are not benefiting the poor and disadavantaged.
Here is a very interesting analysis of the church's finances by Reuters and University of Tampa sociologist Ryan Cragun:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/12/insight-mormon-church-mad_n_1769539.html
AGAIN WITH THE CHARITY!!!!! I've never seen such resentment about charity giving. It is voluntary after all - regardless of the rules of the Mormon church ... and according to those rules 10% is a minimum tithe ... the Romneys game this obligation, too so they can do only "what's legally required."
Here's a copy of what I posted about Mrs. Ann's charity bs from yesterday:
I was bothered by something else Mrs. Ann said.
"Besides paying our taxes, we donated another 10% of our income to charity."
Now never mind that this is apparently the Mormon tithe (and therefore not a donation to charity, and yeah, i know what the IRS says)
Who talks that way about charitable donations? It sounds like she thinks the charity was standing right behind the IRS with their hands out ... like it was equal to the IRS in having a claim on their income ...
just more of "you people" taking away what is rightfully ours!!!! Will it never end!!!! All we had left after you got through with your socialist demands was $15,517,000.00. Why shouldn't I be mad??? This is only happening because you are jealous. We know what to do with money. Mitt doesn't work this hard so you can make yourself feel better by redistributing what is ours - so you can sit home and wait for the check from us. And when you couldn't get enough with the rules for confiscation that the government issues, you sent a charity to get more. Who knows where that money went!!!!
And how much of their incomes do Bill Gates or Warren Buffet donate to charity? Ann Romney begrudged even that little 10% that I presume goes to the church. She is another HUGE reason I want to see Barak Obama (& Michelle) re-elected.
And I am sure what Bill gates and Warren Buffet contribute doesn't go towards homophobic anti gay marriage propositions in a different state that the church headquarters (8 million )
Foreign matters? Then he will be accused of being un-american for the thousandth time. Anyway, I bet the mormon church would also love to see those returns, something tells me they would be owed some major cash. But really, the great Romney has spoken, don't we all have wellfare checks to cash or something. LOL
Ya the comment before on foreign matters Bartender2 ...guess what ? we're using the Rove playbook now , doing what we have to do to win the election ....if we hurt the widdle Republican feelings by asking him to do what everyone else does ...too effin bad .
You rubes
It may seem small minded to him but after the last republican told us to trust him, we've been a little hesitant. this whole system that we live in, involve ourselves with everyday depends on the truth winning out, so when you give us more and more little bits of info and flip flop on all of your major policy issues, it's kinda insulting and hard to trust you. that "wink, chuckle and aw shucks, gee, howdy" bull@!$%# isn't going to win anyone over except the people who were already gong to vote for you.
Besides being a polititian (which I think it's becoming apparent he is not a polititian Ha) RoMoney is a lawyer. And when a lawyer says, Trust Me, we all know what that really means and it rhymes with Puck and U !!!
He won't show his tax returns because he put millions into a Swiss Bank and did not disclose it until offered immunity and thereby avoided paying taxes, interest and penalties. Also, when he says "income" - being a lawyer and all - he defines it as money he has earned from speaking engagements, etc. and not interest income, pass throughs and carry forwards blah blah blah. Being a lawyer and all, he most likely used the same income calculating method when arriving at a 10% tithe - so not "really" 10%, but I'm sure being all high profile and like such - he gets a pass and will still become a god on his own planet. (If only sooner than later!)
Additionally, he put nearly worthless stock into his IRA which promptly became worth millions when he took those companies public and that is how he has $100M in his IRA.
So, yeah, he doesn't want us to question him about these things.
That's my opinion and here's a problem RoMoney hasn't considered in his decision to not release and/or openly discuss these issues - unless and until he does openly disclose and discuss his ethics or lack of ethics, I have no reason to change my opinion.
So to Mr & Mrs RoMoney I say, You People aren't fooling anyone - Trust me!
Romney continues to use the generic term "taxes". That includes sales, state, FICA, property, and federal. If he scammed his way down to a taxable income of $1,000,000 from a gross income of $20,000,000 he is still only paying a nominal rate.
And "journalists" continue to let him get away with it.
7. Yesterday Ann Romney claimed that while everything about their taxes was done legally, she did not to know about the contents of the tax records, saying, "And so, you know, I'll be curious to see what's in there too."
Today, Mitt Romney says, "I did go back and look at my taxes, and, over the past 10 years, I never paid less than 13 percent."
So did Mitt do all of his research yesterday after Ann's interview? Or did Mitt know of this information before yesterday and just didn't let Ann know? Or was Ann lying? Inquiring minds want to know.
I vote for #3.
Mitt Romney is scientific proof that white supremacists are retarded.
Listen closely.
When anyone brings up Romney's tax fraud, the white supremacists immediately begin using sentences that begin "Obama ........." then they repeat some outrageous lie.
White supremacists go along with the lies because their brains were sucked out the instant Obama took the oath of office.
People that are not white supremacist ask: "What are you trying to hide the tax fraud by changing the subject?"
Gotta remember that McCain chose Palin after he say 20 years of Romney's taxes.
Where is all of the teatardic rage I wonder?
As others have said, the "charity" bit just reeks of entitlement. Romney apparently thinks the tax return issue is about him being tight-fisted, not about him benefiting from tax dodges. "We give a lot of money to causes that we like; so what if we don't pay our share to supporting the government everyone depends on to maintain the society that makes our life and wealth possible?"
The other reason why the charity line is a boneheaded move is that it makes the "statement" sound like "I wasn't there, if I was I didn't do it, and if I did you can't prove nothin'!"
Steve ... his prior claims about what was in his returns were not wrong ... they were FALSE!!! He lied. That is very different from getting something wrong. And you know he knew ... he got caught trying to put out information that benefitted him without having to pay money.
Notice a pattern here???? If it costs money to do the right thing, he just lies and says he did the right thing.
I still do not understand why the Massachusetts Board of Elections let him get away with this
Let's see. 13%.
How's this scenario? I've looked at ALL of my taxes and combined it's a total of 13%. His federal taxes under this scenario could be 5%.
Charity. Let me see. Mittens. You're already deducting that 7% (I thought that you were supposed to be giving your church at least 10%) from your federal taxes, and where ever else you can take that deduction. More than a little disingenuous to tell us that the 7% is on top of your taxes when you take it as a deduction.
That is what I was going to say.
20% - 13% = 7%. So he gave 7% to the Mormon church when he is supposed to give 10%. That does not leave anything for real charities that help the poor.
And he said "taxes", he did not say income taxes.
But, to be fair right wing nut jobs have a meme (talking point) that the "poor don't pay taxes", meaning just income taxes, and they should pay at least something ("have some skin in the game").
But still-- 7% of what? [Total income or just adjusted taxable income, which leaves out capital gains income.]
Bishop Willard did'nt say in federal taxe's alone did he.That could include state and property taxe's could'nt it?
Why is no one in the media pointing this out??? It's been making me nuts all afternoon.
Considering how much property he owns, those taxes alone could be a fortune. And don't just count the houses ... he could own large tracts of land and commercial properties as well ... with HUGE tax bills.
He STILL has not said that he paid 13% or ANY % in Federal INCOME taxes at all!
I really hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist. I'm not like that at all. But this guy hasn't been 100% honest about ANYTHING and this smells rotten to the core!
i bet he's going to say from now on that the american people will know 3 years of taxes since he gave a semi-specific-guesstimate-proof-free number for last year
misplaced reply
1st debate - domestic issues, questions from moderator (Lehrer)
2nd debate - townhall (ish), questions from audience screened by moderator (Crowley)
3rd debate - foreign policy, questions from moderator (Schieffer)
VP - open, questions from moderator
yep ... i don't know what happened ... so sorry
and "charity" for Romney means "I gave it to my church so it can spread more nonsense."
See how generous I am? I gave the "church" the absolute minimum! Oh and did I mention that I'm a rich Bishop?
Does anyone else remember the Joe Isuzu character from the TV commercials in the 80's? Every time Romney says something like this, with an implied "Trust me!" attached to it, I get the picture of lying Joe Isuzu in my mind....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFIcjfWvNYw
First time I've ever heard anyone refer to charitable donations as a "tax". I must be very small-minded.
Lawrence O'Donnell asked a good question last night. Romney talks about paying taxes, not "income taxes". Does his 13% claim include property taxes? Maybe sales and school taxes as well?
It is kind of hard to think of a tithing as a donation.
I love point #6. Mitt and his wife (referring to Americans as "you people") keep insulting the America people because they are so removed from humanity. Mitt please step down and go away because we don't want you as our president. You did a horrible job as governor in MA. (I live in MA.). You are a businessman not a politician.
Why does he say " I'm sure waiting for Harry to put up who it was that told him what he says they told him. I don't believe it for a minute, by the way." ?
Either he knows what he paid (and I'm sure he does) or he doesn't. It shouldn't come down to him believing Reid. How strange.
He doesn't seem to be able to say anything without sounding strange. I'm beginning to think we need to demand to see Willard's birth certificate, along with his worth-certificates... he may be an illegal alien... from spaaaace!
;-)
Thank you! That is a strange statement from Romney - he makes it sound as though Harry Reid said someone else hadn't paid taxes for ten years.
It's clear that Mitt and most of the multi millionaires apparently do not even comprehend in the slightest why we pay taxes to maintain our government.
They think taxes are nothing but onerous. And besides, just think, all the 'little people's' tax money going to the hated government when we could just be demanding it from them as direct tribute!
There is a possibility that both Reid and Romney are correct. Romney specified only the last 10 years he paid taxes at a rate of over 13%. Reid source could have been referring to another 10 year period earlier than the last ten years. Without the returns, though, Romney cannot establish the truth or falsity of any of his claims.
And just as a point of reflection...why would you chose to release a return before a presidential election that demonstrates that LOWEST tax rate you paid in the last ten years (based on what Romney said here), if you are concerned about giving an impression that you don't pay enough in taxes. It just does not make sense. One would think that releasing the returns that had higher rates would be more politically advantageous. Which only makes the tax return question more compelling.
Excellent point! Willard did give 23 years of returns to McCain's vetting team, after all.
I'm still not sure, but I'm coming around to the view that Reid's "source" is either McCain himself (who probably hates Willard) or someone on that vetting team.
;-)
if he "really" only paid 13% why wouldn't he take the opportunity to pounce on Harry Reid the day after Reid's comments instead of letting it simmer for weeks. What, his army of accountants were on vacation? Gees Willard, we are not that stupid.
"Romney may not understand this, but 13 percent isn't a tax burden worth bragging about. Most of the middle class are not, by definition, multi multi-millionaires with car elevators, and they're paying a higher percentage of their incomes in taxes than Romney is"
No matter how many times you make this statement it will never, ever be true and I could link multiple sources and you would still make the statement so why bother. The majority of Americans pay less than 11% as their tax rate.
11% on what income?
@Bannedagain
He said, " Most of the middle class are not,..."
You took that to mean, "The majority of Americans pay ..."
I hope you can see the difference.