Part of the problem with Mitt Romney's secrecy on tax returns is the number of unanswered questions, all of which deserve answers. But the other part to this is that Romney hasn't been able to explain why, exactly, he needs to keep the information hidden from voters.
Yesterday, the Republican came up with a new excuse, telling Parade Magazine his secrecy relates to his faith. "Our church doesn't publish how much people have given," Romney said. "This is done entirely privately. One of the downsides of releasing one's financial information is that this is now all public, but we had never intended our contributions to be known. It's a very personal thing between ourselves and our commitment to our God and to our church."
Seriously?
As a rule, when an explanation evolves over time, and a candidate struggles to keep his story straight, it's a bad sign, but this is especially foolish. Romney can't say -- or at least he can't be expected to be taken seriously when he says -- his tithing is "a very personal thing" that he "never intended ... to be known."
He does realize Google exists, right? Romney understands that it's easy to document countless examples of him boasting, not only about his tithing, but the specific percentage of his income he turns over to his church every year, doesn't he?
Indeed, Romney has already made some tax returns available, and they show how much he gave to his church. The release of more tax returns would only confirm what we already know.
I suspect this is a ploy to shut down conversation. We're supposed to say, "Oh, well, if it's related to religion, and Romney's faith is off-limits, the focus on the hidden tax returns ought to end immediately." It's a cheap move and I doubt it'll work.
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So, in short, God want's Mitt to hide his tax returns.
Perhaps She could suggest that Mitt and Paul learn a bit about the fruits of kindness while She is advising him on public relations?
Hey Mitt - If you didn't lie so much, you wouldn't have to try to remember what you've said in the past! Oh, you don't mind lying, it seems, but Dude, we can simply Google what you've said in the past and check your latest story along with all those that would prove highly embarrassing to a truthful person.
We Americans have the right to know if we are voting for a liar, and Mitt seems to be giving the us Americans all the information that would match that right! -Kevo
That's an absurd "explanation". Romney's father must be spinning in his grave.
I have to assume that George Romney was at least as devout a Mormon as Mitt. So why did George release so many years of returns when he was running for office?
Answer: George Romney was honest. At least much more honest than his son.
Sadly, the Romneys disprove the old saw about the rich: "the first generation makes it, the second generation keeps it, the third generation loses it. " George's oldest son went straight to sentence #3.
Let me count the ways. Willard has protested FOR the Viet Nam War and when his turn came to wear the uniform of the country which gave him all the opportunities to fleece money from companies, he ran away and hid in France, his records from Bain remain hidden, his records from the Olympics remain hidden or destroyed, his records from being the Mass gov remain hidden or destroyed, his sons supported the two teapub wars by working in his campaign for President, his tax records remain hidden, and what his plans are for the country if he ever gets elected remain hidden. He lies and/or flip flops on every subject he talks about.
That tells me all I need to know about this man and I really don't care what his excuses are, he isn't fit to be President of this country.
If memory serves both Mitt and Ann Romney have bragged about how much they pay their church on several occasions. I suspect they are afraid we will discover that they aren't actually tithing, at least not properly, so they are afraid the rest of the mormon faithful will discover they are cheapskates.
Isn't it fun that by refusing to disclose Mitt has left us all free to engage in the wildest speculation. It is sort of like we can be birthers without having to address the reality of the President's long form birth certificate. :)
My guess is that he is not tithing the full 10% to the church and he is paying significantly less in taxes (almost nil) to the country that he wants to preside. Also too, I promise to drop my baseless (but probably spot on) speculations upon release of his tax returns. This makes me unlike the birthers or Tea Partiers entirely.
I think that he tithes by using Bain Stock. Being a board member he can buy stock at a discounted rate. For instance if the share was $4.00 he could buy it for $2.00. He would give the stock to the Mormon church who would immediately sell it at $4.00. Then Romney includes this profit toward his tithing obligation. He also gets a 50% tax break from the final total. I agree that he is not giving 10% of his total wealth. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg!
What do you think of the reports on Bain finances that were released by the Gawker. Also the report by "Badger Democracy" that discloses a lot of Tommy Thompson's financial dealings since leaving the congress..and his ties to Bain capital. Can these reports be trusted?
Their tithing percentage was probably not based on the hidden monies anyway.
The fact that the Romney campaign has nothing to say about the Bain reports that Gawker has published tells you all you need to know about their accuracy.
The whole idea of this being speculation that he's hiding his money from the church, people or government really isn't. I could be wrong and I'm sure a Mormon could correct me on this, but the Mormon Church actually asks for your pay statement to ensure you are tithing everything you owe. They don't trust that you will willingly pay it all every two weeks or whenever you get paid so they want to see it with their own eyes.
This actually leaves it open to question the Romneys that if they're hiding money, they won't have to claim it to the church. If he's got millions hidden all over, that's 10% of millions they get to keep on the side away from the eyes of the church.
I'm just saying and I know this could be wrong.
This is disgusting! I can't believe Romney is hiding his lies behind God and the church. This is the lowest lie yet. God must be cringing (as a Christian who loves God I am). Romney should be very ashamed, but clearly he's not and can't be because he is so disconnected. This guy CAN'T be president! It is clear now he will go to any low to get what he wants.
it's be great if this god actually showed that it disapproved.
Hmn - well, there is a hurricane bearing down on the GOP convention!
(for the snark-impaired, I am being facetious)
With any luck, goddess will show she loves America by hitting Tampa with the hurricane and washing the thugs out to sea with the rest of the gutter trash.
Does Romney's 13% tax include off-shore income or not? In other words, is that 13% of taxable income that he pays, or 13% of all income, including non-taxable income anywhere in the world? (I was just wondering if there might be a large amount of money that doesn't even go into that calculation of 13%.)
What Romney is afraid of is the church finding out he is tithing 10% of gross after all deductions are taken instead of his unadjusted gross. He is depriving his church of millions!
I was thinking the same exact thing JMK. Would be a shame if the Church found out just how many millions are in offshore back accounts that they didn't receive their 10% share of.
There were dropped jaws and high fives all 'round when some FUBARRomney minion came up with this one. Even a turd can be holy if it comes from the right source and putting a halo on FUBARRomney's tax returns will bestow a veil of thwarted good intention to his refusal to show them. He'd love to, but... it just wouldn't be right.
They like it a lot. For the fundie crowd they are trying hard to lock in, this sounds just peachy, and for those who want to see the returns anyway, those heathens would just as soon eat your baby as look at your tax returns.
This one has a sleazy, chickensh!t gravitas, they'll stick with it.
Romney has become like the Bush Administration in his ability to surprise me by finding new lows beneath a bar that seemed to be so buried deeply in the mud by what came before that nothing worse seemed possible.
The only thing that doesn't surprise me is that having come up with a lie so facially ridiculous that it is unworthy of even a smirk, so hypocritical it induces vomiting, so utterly contemptible that even a full-blown psychopath would be ashamed to tell it, and so easily fact-checked that any eleven year old with a laptop and a wireless connection would call bull$h!t on it, he chose to publish it in "Parade."
My evolving explanation: Romeny's in some sense being honest about the amount of taxes he paid, and the tax shelters (incuding any tax amnesty) are too complicated to make an eleciton issue. His past disclosures about charitable giving ere also more or less accurate. He must be hiding something else. So it's something that's highly embarrassing, potentially fatal to his candidacy, and not related to money. The "domicile of citizenship" issue isn't it, becaue he could have lived in Massachusetts on election day and somewhere else on December 31.
What could it be? Everyone lists the names and social security numbers of their minor ddpendents on their tax returns. If one or more of those names is not withing the set, "children of Anne Romney," he's never going to release the returns, and if they get out, he's not going to be President.
Mitt, this baseless rumor will be easy to disprove.
Perhaps the Caymans and Switzerland are also tithing havens.
I would bet Romney isn't even tithing 10% of net income, (maybe 1 or 2%, until that 2010 tax return, of course) Read the exerpts of the article, he says he cries when he writes that check. I'll bet he does! This is why he and his wife have always referred to their charity work when they talk about taxes. To these guys, it is just another tax and they try to dodge as much of that one as they can as well. IMO, if this came out, the social conservatives would not turn out for him at the polls. My theory goes, if he can do this to the LDS, then we can't trust him at all.
source: IRS Table 5 Returns of Active Corporations
So taxes account for 0.79% of gross receipts.
Yup less than 1% - taxed to death, you can really understand why businesses have to move their money overseas. To avoid that last 1%.
In 1952 Corp Taxes was 5.9% of GDP by 1989 it was only 1.85% and in 2009 just 0.99% of GDP.
Since the US aggressively allows for almost every expense as deductible against taxable income the reality is that business now pay 1/5 of what they did in the 1950s.
And they are still NOT Happy, Right..?
Not suprising. One more theist who wants to crow about how good he is on the street corners, but when caught doing it, he wants to lie about how private and important his religion is. I do love how people are far too willing to shut up about Mormonism; it's just more circling of the wagons since all theists realize that their religions are just as silly as the magic underwear, planet-ruling, posthumous baptizing Mormons.
I know he isn't that smart, but what part of PUBLIC servant is he having trouble with? If he wanted to remain a private citizen, he shouldn't have run for office.
He has been wanting to BE President for years, but the petty details are beneath him.
I want to run a marathon- except for the training and the running. Can't I just show up at the finish line?
good one, Day
Maybe he is really Batman and he doesn't want us to find out that he has taken the batmobile as a business deduction. This speculation stuff is fun.
This is my theory about why Mitt won't release more tax returns ... it will reveal that he has in fact made more money than he has certified to the Mormon Church and that he has in fact been underpaying his tithes. He claims he pays 10%, but I think this is his big lie!
That was my reaction, also. He probably is paying 10% of something, but not necessarily 10% of his gross, or even adjusted gross income. Back when I was involved in a cult (excuse me-church) that required tithing to be the base of giving-there was always the question 10% of gross, adjusted gross or net income? Note that tithing was to be the base of giving. It was required--actual giving was above and beyond the tithe.
NPR's Planet Money had a podcast about the complexities of Mormon tithing a few months ago, and there is quite a bit of debate about how the 10% should be calculated. Many questions come up: Gross or net? Do capital gains count? (or wouldn't that be "double tithing", since you'd already paid a tithe on the original wage income? Of course, in Romney's case, he somehow manages to conjure capital gains out of nowhere, without any wage income in the past.)
What if Mitt's investments include arms sales that helped to kill American soldiers or if his investors have included those laundering drug money? Certainly there are pharmaceutical companies that sell contraceptives included in his portfolio. It is not difficult to imagine the truthphobic candidate being involved in any number of pathologic dealings that would destroy any credibility he could buy.
Borrowing this comment from another commenter on another site (which I can't remember): if Romney wanted to keep his donations secret as he ran for president, the solution is simple: don't put them on his tax returns as deductions. If he made the donations without putting them on his returns, there's be no issue.
Yet another example of how deceptive Romney is and how he is totally unprepared to run for the presidency -- he's been running for years and knows that tax return releases are pretty much standard operating procedure, and yet took few actions to change his filing strategy for public consumption.
So is Mitt officially introducing his religion into the presidential race???
Or will he once again feign offense as questions begin surrounding his new bogus tax "revelation"???
This guy is SO full of CRAP!!! This is the BEST the Repubs can do???
Why doesn't Romney release his returns with all his charitable deductions removed? He claims to do all sorts of charitable work, so there would be no way the public would know how much of his huge charitable contributions were from his tithings.
Go read the documents Gawker got hold of.
Perhaps he's afraid that the Church will find out how much he's been holding out on them with fancy accounting.
Rachael let me see if I can help with your thinking on this issue....
Now before I go on, I think you are one in a million and I will hopefully say why someday... Keep up the great Job. We are fans of yours.
Now, back to the issue of Romney Taxes… Can you conceive of the Republican electorate being the victim on this issue..?
Yes, you see they are committed to Romney as he is their (Republican) party nominee for presidency, therefore they cannot renege as they are stuck and will look bad if they do.
So you can somewhat feel bad for them as they at some point did sincerely expect Romney would have all of these sorted before this argument stated.
Therefore Rachael with majority of the country agreeing that Romney should release more of his tax returns, and Romney holding steadfast to his refusal of voluntary tax release compliance, you have to carefully think through the fact that the Republican Party is stuck.
How stuck you ask…?
For the Republican electorate, there is an underlying aura of betrayal of trust. Yes, Betrayal of Trust. The Republican electorate believed in Romney and the only way he can affirm the belief the Republican Party has in him is to release additional taxes, and the result will be see we told you he is alright, provided he is…
But he cannot, because I suspect like everyone else there are, even though legal, most likely scathing information in his taxes…
So, the Republican Electorate is stuck. Really stuck and you have to feel bad for them because their underlying suspicion, which they will not openly admit publicly, is that the suspicion just might be true…
Wow!
Mitt tithed 5.69% in 2010
It had been previously reported that Mitt tithed only 7%, based on the $21mil 'total income' Line 22, but it may be even worse for the LDS church.
Form 1040, Line 16 Gifts by cash or check: $1,525,167
Form 1116, Line 3e Gross Income from all sources: $26,763,809, although on another 1116 Line 3e is $27,285,915 - apparently this includes income not required to be reported on Form 1040.
That's 5.69% (or 5.58%, if the $27mil is correct) kiddies.
One of the questions asked for a temple recommend (temple recommend is "are you paying a full tithe?" Mormons are supposed to tithe on absolutely everything, before deductions, before taxes, even if they find a $5 bill on the sidewalk.
You must have a temple recommend to enter the Temple in SLCU. Administering the questions is one of the things Mitt did as bishop and stake president. One woman was barred from attending her daughter's wedding because she didn't have a temple recommend.
More disturbing to me (but I am not a tax expert, and never played one on TV) is The Ann D. Romney Blind Trust Section 83(b) Election form for (quoting the form) 'Bain Capital Partners (AM) X, LLC (the "Partnership")', which contains the phrase "if I cease performing services for the Partnership", which seems to mean Ann Romney is presently performing services for a Bain entity. Anyone have a friend who is a tax attorney? The fair market value of this being $0 could be setting up for Paulie's 0% tax on capital gains. Apparently, if they declared initial value as $0 and real current value, they would have to pay capital gains now. Declaring 0% lets them put it off until (they think) they can get in power and zap the capital gains tax. It's the same trick likely used to inflate the kids' trust fund.
More info about Rafalca. They actually only took a $50 deduction for the horse this year, but the law allows the rest ($77K+) to be "carried over" so if the horse ever makes any money from stud fees or such (which looks less likely after his recent outing), they could offset those amounts later.