Off topic here guys.

I just thought Bill Black has an excellently Researched piece on Paul Ryan's comment about the danger of lulling people into lives of dependence and complacency.

sometimes History repeats itself in unimaginably curious ways.

Paul Ryan's great great grandfather came into this Country from Ireland because of The Great Hunger.And today His great great grandson wants to apply that same British Ideology to the poor in America.Only this time,Where would the Poor flee to?

http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2012/08/why-is-paul-ryan-an-irish-catholic-praising-the-dogmas-that-drove-the-great-hunger.html

Tealiban!! Dead on!!

Paul Ryan's comment about the danger of lulling people into lives of dependence and complacency = tax handouts to the rich

Darn kids running lemonade3 stands don't pay any tax and they don't even have a business license! Seems there was an issue over that a while back...

In Coralville, Iowa police shut down 4-year-old Abigail Krstinger’s lemonade stand after it had been up for half an hour. Dustin Krustinger told reporters that his daughter was selling lemonade at 25 cents a cup during the Register’s Annual Great Bicycle Race Across Iowa (or RAGBRAI), and couldn’t have made more than five dollars, adding “If the line is drawn to the point where a four-year-old eight blocks away can’t sell a couple glasses of lemonade

From-http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/03/the-inexplicable-war-on-lemonade-stands/

Well played.

Zora, don't you think the Dems should have a banner next week that says "We Built It TOGETHER"?

Judy - I think that is a brilliant plan!

I love it!

Thanks Judy, I love that!

Wasn't Obama teaching constitutional law in a university? Isn't teaching a noble profession that GOP appreciates? Did it just slip their memory? 2008 Seattle PI: "Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, taught at the University of Chicago’s law school for 12 years before he bowed out of academia to pursue a career in politics." To the best of my knowledge the University of Chicago is a PRIVATE school. But he didn't manage the school nor fire teachers.

And yet a shoe sitting in the oval office would do less harm to our nation.

No business in the world would last 4 years much less 8 years being ran the Obama Way. He still cries about all the bad being Bush's fault. Well if he isn't Strong enough to get rid a the influence of the last administration ( even with a super majority for the first two years) then he needs to go. Even a house wife could do a better job, she lives in reality and knows how to set a budget.

Its funny that the party that says they are for women's rights, belittles their greatest achievements. A good mother builds a grate society.

"Its funny that the party that says they are for women's rights, belittles their greatest achievements. A good mother builds a grate society."

A grate society? Would that be one where increasing numbers of victims of corporate downsizing and offshoring become homeless and sit around heating grates in an effort to keep warm?

Nobody in the Democratic Party is downplaying the importance of motherhood. Obama has spoken of it many times. If you'd listen to what he says, you would know that. I believe it is also the Democratic Party that has fought for equal pay and workplace rights for those mothers who also need to work. It is also the party that fights for the safety net for poorer families, especially single mothers, so that they'll have more resources with which to raise those kids.

Chemdmd, your spelling is as faulty as your understanding of politics and economics. Obama never had a real supermajority, with Nelson, Lincoln, and Lieberman. And what he did have, he had only between the time Al Franken was sworn in and the time Scott Brown was elected. That's nothing close to two years.

Forgive me, chemdmd, but 17 bills to make it easier for business to operate and make money wouldn't be welcomed in the business community? Lowering taxes for the middle class isn't good governing? Bush did put us in an economic hole that no housewife could get us out of, regardless of her expertise with a budget. Major economists say it's going to take a decade to pull us out of that hole. His "super majority" lasted a few months, not two years, and precious few Republicans ever joined the majority to vote, if they allowed a vote to occur in the Senate. The President has done what he could given that Republicans chose to sabotage every effort he's made. The DOW is 500+ points higher than when he took office. Jobs have been added 29 months in a row even when businesses haven't invested in this nation but have extracted wealth and avoided investing in the nation. The Democratic Party doesn't belittle womens' greatest accomplishments at all. And, good mothers don't build a "grate" society - that would be one where there are holes that people fall through.

Judy I love your response. Sadly they (republicans) have brainwashed their party to believe the President doesn't do anything when since day one they would vote against anything he tried to do just because he's the Black Democrat in office and they must make him look bad. I never hated republicans until I saw just how evil they have become.

It's tiresome when conservatives try to relate running a country to running a business. They are not the same thing... it's not even comparing apples to oranges, more like comparing apples to a oil rig. Business are in business to make money, the bottom line is that if you're not making a profit you cut jobs or raise prices, etc. in order to make that profit. Government is in the business of helping the people of a country, they are not a profit making enterprise. Business experience does not equate being a good president or even a good politician.

I would like to point out to chemdmd that running the government is NOT analogous to running a business. Leaders in business can choose who to deal with and always have the option to liquidate and cash out; two options not available to someone governing. Rumsfeld ran the Pentagon like a business during the beginning of the war in Iraq and we all know how that turned out: woefully under manned and under resourced, short term planning that left a vacuum when Saddam fell and cheeky responses when soldiers were dying because their equipment didn't meet the challenge. He acted as the perfect post-financialization corporate CEO and our soldiers paid dearly for it.

chemmd, with the supermajority myth? here http://538refugees.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/the-democratic-super-majority-myth/ is the link to explain where you are wrong. There was a majority for only the slimmest of time. Six weeks. Remember the history.

Oh, good ole Chemdmd won't remember history; he had that pesky frontal lobe removed to install the device that lets him download the inaccurate talking points straight from the GOP each day. See, for Republicans, facts (and evidently spelling skills) are irrelevant; all that matters is what they want to push in their bull@!$%#. Chem and his buddy Shooter are prime examples.

Interesting. In Chem's profile he claims to be a doctor, dentist, chemist, and lawyer. Heh. Orly Taitz is that you?

I'm not sure how true this is, but I've heard that if you stop listening to Rush and stop watching Faux for just 24 hours your IQ goes up by 10.

Thanks for the article Otto

If we vote him again....we are all doomed like Greece. You have to take out your opinions and inserts facts. He tried to sue South Carolina. That deserves a lemonade stand shot by trying to take the jobs of 6000 South Carolinians!

Actually Facts. It wasn't taking 6000 jobs out of SC. It added 2000 jobs. The 6000 that were in attendance. Was made up of the 4000 who already worked for Boeing. And the 2000 just hired.
Which is still a fraction of the 'jobs' that red states have cut from their budgets in the last 3 years. So adding 2000 more jobs. After cutting out roughly ten times that much. Is like putting a band aide on a broken leg.

Fortunately they got rid of the union and Boeing couldn't afford a work stoppage every 3 years so the employees could strike. Don't forget about the thousands who helped build the $750 million plant in North Charleston. It was 10 times that number of employees. Boeing could have built that plant in another country and SC convinced Boeing to keep those jobs here.

The people who built the plant had new jobs. I'll give you that one. But it still doesn't negate the amount of Jobs Haley cut out of the state with her policies. the number she cut are not offset. By the one Boeing brought into the state. Nikki is still at a minus in job totals since she took office. Saying you created X amount of jobs is good. Until you realize that you had already cut out Y number of jobs. And Y being the larger number. Negates the amount X represents.

Factspeople . . . Yes, that "getting rid of unions" thing has worked out soooo well for working class white people in this country, hasn't it. Just look at the average real wage and income distribution numbers since Reagan took office.

Not that many of them didn't deserve it after buying the Reagan bullpuckey and voting for him twice (well, three times if you count George H. W. Bush). I always find it interesting that people who were so much better off when unions were strong in the manufacturing sector are so anxious to vote for the party that puts its energies into stamping out the last vestiges of organized labor.

Boeing would not offshore it's manufacturing over seas. Boeing gets huge subsidies from the federal government- it's a business, in fact, that exists entirely off of government subsidies- that prevent it from off shoring. If Boeing leaves overseas then Boeing loses out on hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money. This is not meant to be catty. You have to actually know something about aviation and Boeing's part of that community to understand that these particular companies are dependent on the existence of the US government. Another company may have been an example to use, but not Boeing.

If we vote him again....we are all doomed like Greece. You have to take out your opinions and inserts facts. He tried to sue South Carolina. That deserves a lemonade stand shot by trying to take the jobs of 6000 South Carolinians!

What do you mean by "doomed like Greece?" Do you mean declare bankruptcy? The country of Greece is in the mess it is in today because it sold several of it's public services to Goldman Sachs and a handful of other companies to be privatized and mixed with other countries in Europe. The debt of these services was essentially offset onto the private sector with the hopes of generating more revenue in the long term. When the market collapsed Greece was left without any money as a result of this offsetting. Had they not done this the country of Greece would have been OK. This was done as part of Greece's conservative movement (I know, I know we tend to think that there is no such thing as conservative Europe over here in the US because we're such arrogant a-holes as to not realize that even though we accuse other countries of being socialist those other countries aren't, in fact, socialist) to commit the country to austerity. Their recession was then furthered by the country slashing benefits, firing workers, and tightening the restrictions needed to qualify for government assistance. How you can compare anything going on in Greece to what is going on in the US is insane.

For the last time people you cannot take two entirely unrelated situations and then attempt to link them together. Greece is it's own country with it's own economic structure and it's OWN economic turmoils. There may be similarities to the US and it's certainly OK to study that to make sure we don't commit ourselves to those similarities, but overall that country does not operate anything like us and is therefore NOT comparable.

The DOJ has the right to sue states if states implement policies that are in conflict with policies passed at the federal level or that the federal government feels violates the constitution. I am not sure how you are seeing this as an extreme measure noteworthy unless you're asserting that South Carolina is an independent nation???

I also enjoy a person who says "you have to put aside your opinions and insert facts" while then following up 2 sentence later with a complete opinion presented as though it is fact....

NPR Planet Money had a piece a while back on Greece's problems, which may sound more closely resembling the America which Mitt Romney envisions:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/05/144747663/how-a-computer-scientist-tried-to-save-greece

"It's like a bad joke. Why did the Greek government borrow so much money?

Because it couldn't get its own citizens to pay taxes.

The Greek government estimates that one third of taxes owed never get paid. And apparently it was far easier to borrow money even at outrageous rates than to make Greeks pay what they owe."

"To "run a lemonade stand" You need to create a product, and then convince a few dozen people to buy it.

Obama spent 30 plus years developing his 'product', and then, in 2008, convinced 69,456,897 people to buy it.

-try harder, GOP."

Now THAT should be made into a Television ad, a Radio ad, and put in EVERY newspaper and political rag across the country! This Definitely needs to be shared with President Obama's super pacs. WELL SAID!!!!

Ugghhh.... truth? your kidding right? Neither side has a lot of truth but Romney is DEFINATELY THE LESSOR OF 2 EVILS. He can run a corporation and the Olympics and you think a junior Senator with 2 years of experience was qualified for this postion??

If you insist on violating the English language with misspellings, would you at least not bring our attention to it by writing in capital letters?

Truth is, Romney "saved" the Olympics with a billion federal dollars and ran a corporation that invested other people's money in companies, some of which were then loaded down with debt to the point of bankruptcy causing hundreds of people to lose everything they had worked for over many years while Bain walked off with millions in "profits" . Judging by the few details he's willing to admit to (otherwise he won't get elected) he'll do the same thing as president.

President Obama took over a country in the midst of a financial crisis, saved us from falling into a depression, saved the auto industry, ended the Iraq war, got the terrorist responsible for 9/11, devestated Al Queda,passed health care reform that presidents have been trying to pass for 100 years, and did it all in spite of the fact that Republicans decided on day one that they wouldn't agree to anything he did, even if it was their own idea, just to weaken him.

No I'm not kidding

Thanks Vabelle.

Can't refute the facts so you pick up on a misspelling.

Vabelle . . . He's at least partially right about Romney being the LESSOR OF 2 EVILS. Based on his financial statements, he's definitely (not "DEFINATELY") a "lessor." At a minimum, we know he's a landlord, leasing out a number of homes.

My complaint is with the "2 EVILS" part. I think Romney is guilty of many more than TWO.

But isn't misspelling a valid point? I do not take an expression of opinion seriously if the author cannot spell and punctuate correctly. What does it say about either the writer's intelligence or education, or attention to detail?

You seem to live in a world where facts come out of a Fox talking points box. I guess you might call it a T and V. Turn the channel once in awhile dude.

I can't deny that and neither can you about the current POTUS. We can through poop at each other all day long but that's not going to solve anything. You can't with a clear conscience vote for him again. The POTUS wanted this position and he got it. It’s time he took accountability for the last 3 years and stop blaming the Bush’s! He's not making our country stronger.

Louise..Dude.. you seriously can't tell me to turn the channel when you have only one ....MSNBC. :) Bill Maher's comedy channel doesn't count...he's funny but inaccurate.

I can, and will. You know why? Because he's done a great job, in spite of GOP obstructionism and brinksmanship. The ones who are accountable for how crappy things have gone, for stopped jobs bills, for downgraded credit, for cockblocking everything that would have helped America, that would be the GOP! And I will be DAMNED if I let a little ignorant sh!t like you claim otherwise.

for all you worried about spelling and punctuation.you don't have to be a english genius,to form a opinion,or to tell right from wrong.So don't hate;i think there is plenty of ignorance across the board on both sides.They may have spelled words wrong,but whats important,,is that they vote for the right person.Obama !!!!!!

Facts, re: #8.1

And if we ever need someone to come in and run a company Mitt should be on the short list. However, the country can't be run like a corporation. Countries are not profit centers. Countries can't be broken up, sold off in pieces with the population laid off and sent to look for a new state or new country. Corporations don't build infrastructure, they just take advantage of that infrastructure when the government, by way of everyones' contribution, is finished creating and building it. Corporations don't build and equip military and police forces that protect those corporations from entities that would do them harm. Like someone said above, we built it together.

The Olympics only took 1.6 Billion tax payer dollars to be "saved" that Romney went after following his acceptance as a lobbyist.

The argument regarding President Obama and his perceived lack of experience was best made in 2008. But as of today he has run the most powerful country in the free world for almost 4 years. That's experience that neither on the Republican ticket can claim today.

Can't refute the facts so you pick up on a misspelling.

What facts are you talking about? Your first post was that Romney is qualified to be president because he ran a business and helped manage the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake whereas Obama was a junior Senator from Illinois. There is no "fact" in asserting whom you believe is qualified to run for the office of the presidency. That is an opinion. You just complained in your last post that you don't like it when people obfuscate the difference between opinion and fact, but yet you did it here again without even blinking.

I can't deny that and neither can you about the current POTUS

Deny what and why can't I deny whatever it is? What are you even talking about here? This has nothing to do with your last post- this is anon-sequitur and yet you're acting like you just made two succinct posts. What are you even responding to here??

You can't with a clear conscience vote for him again

You can't tell other people what they can or cannot do or what will or will not make their conscience feel compromised. This is an opinion and yet not only are you presenting it as fact, but you are ordering it at a person whom you do not know. You don't know what their conscience dictates so how can you even assert this position???

It’s time he took accountability for the last 3 years and stop blaming the Bush’s! He's not making our country stronger.

What are you talking about, again? When has Obama blamed Bush? I do recall Obama trying to contextualize the situation we're in by saying that we are here because of the failed policies of the Bush Administration (in specifics the tax cuts, the deregulation of the market, the 2 wars, and the unfunded social programs)- but I do not recall Obama blaming someone. The problem here though is the use of the word "blame." What is blaming to you is historical perspective to someone else. Like blaming the South for slavery or blaming the North for being "aggressive." These are subjective terms that you're asserting as though everyone has the same interpretation of their meaning when by definition they vary from person to person. I do not think Obama has blamed Bush, but you do. Don't project your statements onto other people as though you're the neutral point of observation- you are not.

What does it mean to make our country stronger? I was not aware that our country was weak and therefore was in need of strengthening?

The $1.6 billion that Romney spent to "save" the Olympics all came from the government. For someone that wants to get the government out of our lives, he certainly uses it when it suits him.

Told to believe....The POTUS tried sue the state of SC to pander to unions so Boeing wouldn't move there. 6000 jobs were created. You can't argue the real truth ;)

Factspeople 2016 - what on Earth are you talking about and how is it relevant to this conversation? Could you please translate your post from Wingnut into actual conversational English?

TRIED TO SUE. missed one word. "Told to believe" was in the in the previous post from MEGO.

I could make some whitty comment to belittle you as well but I leave that to Maddow and the rest of the Democrats who have nothing to stand on ;)

Trust me, the lack of the word "to" was not the problem. One would think the party continually mouthing some dumb meme about private sector experience, as if it mattered in the context of an incumbent president who's been in charge of an entire branch of the federal government for 3.5 years, would be seen as the one with "nothing to stand on."

The point remains - your post assumes that some context free reference to the President "suing" the State of South Carolina will illuminate a point that has something to with the basic topic of this thread. Your readers have no idea what you're even referring to, much less what the point is. Wrapping up with "You can't argue the real truth" addressed to an audience that has no idea what you're talking about doesn't exactly clinch the argument for you.

Factspeople2016 . . . A whitty comment? What, you're going into whittling now?

Trying whittling away some of the nonsense you keep coming up with. Your comments don't show much insight or understanding, but at least you could use the spell check once in a while.

MCA1, I’ll break down Barney style for you…. During the RNC last night the Governor from South Carolina brought up many facts. So Mego posted the comment below in this very thread.

“Not a STRONG woman among them . Yes, they are Senators and Governors but not real beliefs except for what they are TOLD to believe”. there were also other references to women in this discussion.

Quiet…she’s a women. So perhaps through a few misspellings you can see the refence I made. Told to belive (Mego's point) .....argue the facts (my point).

Do you ever proofread anything you post? I've read over your comments here and I believe every single has some gaffe, in spelling or punctuation, or the use of a word that makes no sense. Why should anyone take your opinion seriously? And by the way, regarding your admonition to "argue the facts"... correct spelling and grammar are facts.

Steven - You have no factual evidence to debate so you make light of the misspellings. Correct spellings and grammar aren't facts......it's considered correct grammar which I lack occassionally when typing. So keep holding out your hand and making excuses.

Factspeople2016...you really don't want to talk to me about Boeing. I'm from Washington state and totally understand what Nikki Haley did. Oh and the NLRB sue SC for union busting. FACTS are something that are true not just talking points for the uninformed. With enough money (Boeing) and a complicit Governor (Haley) it appears you can do anything. If you want to 'debate' how strong Haley is let's talk the Port of Charleston.

hey facts,why don't you open your reply box,so one might be able to respond directly to you.Are you scared like ya boy Romney,on them tax returns.Don"t want to be overwhelmed by truth?Listen,,It will set you free my friend.

You are correct, Facts - correct spelling and grammar indeed are not facts. That doesn't change two things, however:

1. Your inability to write complete sentences without multiple spelling, syntax and punctuation errors reflects poorly on you, making you come across as ignorant and not worthy of serious consideration. If you had a point to make, it would persuade exactly no one because it would be presented in the wrapper of "this is ill-thought out and not born of rigorous analysis, but hear me out."

2. You have yet to make an actual argument of any sort in this thread, choosing instead to toss out some conclusory talking point pap with no context, calling it "truth" and "fact" and then claiming people are avoiding arguing the point, when the point is wholly incapable of being discerned. People are left laughing at your seventh grade writing skills because there's nothing else to talk about here.

Here's one of those facts that "Facts......." has so much trouble with.

The issue of Boeing and the proposed move to SC was correctly identified by the National Labor Relations Board as being in violation of established law when a specific statement was made by a Boeing official to the Seattle Times, where he said that the "overriding factor" behind the South Carolina decision "was that we cannot afford to have a work stoppage, you know, every three years.". This is against established precedent.

The National Labor Relations Board is an independent agency of the United States government charged with conducting elections for labor union representation and with investigating and remedying unfair labor practices. Not a partisan entity.

They took a stance that was in violation and proceeded to fight the assumption of guilt by saying the law is wrong. You cannot break the law just because you don't agree with it. You can work within the bounds of law to have it changed, and if successful do what you intended.

I still have no idea what Factspeople was talking about. I think he was trying to say that Nicki Haley is strong for standing up to the federal government over a lawsuit having to deal with Boeing that did not involve the government of South Carolina or Nicki Haley (well aside from the normal procedures to which a government is involved in facilitating a lawsuit). But I am not sure how he got from one to the other. I mean it's such a disjointed comment. He and Shooter seem to have a problem following succinct comments that other people reading the commentary can actually understand. I think he doesn't understand that this is why the grammatical errors come into play. We all make them at some point- that's not the argument. The argument is when you do so to an extent that no one can understand what you're attempting to say no argument is being presented and this undermines your attempts at communication.

Seriously? How do you negotiate with an entire party. Who has blatantly refuse to negotiate in the first place? When you have a party who gets on national tv. And say we will not compromise, at all. Is responsible for our credit rating to be dropped. Then blame it on the President not willing to negotiate. Is beyond delusional.

Secondly Ryan has NEVER and I mean NEVER had a real job. He's been in politics his entire career. And wasn't very good at it. Because he only became famous. When he came up with his budget. And was nicknamed "The Kill Medicare Guy".

Mitt who was only able to be elected to one public office. After nearly 20 years of running for one. Left MA is worse shape than when he got there. And what got us into this deep hole. Was this moronic idea. That Trickle Down Economics actually work. When we know for a fact that. It didn't work for Regan, Bush 41 or Bush 43.

This is just sad. Were you born in January, 2009, or are you just incapable of remembering back any further than that? You are aware, of course, that in the Fall of 2008 our economy jumped off a cliff, hurtling us into a mini-Depression, right? That might explain the "deep hole" you're so concerned with. I mean, seriously, do you not remember the days during which it seemed possible that the entire banking system in the United States could go belly up, and the extreme credit freeze that went along with it? Are you unaware that the vast majority of our annual deficits in the last several years has been the result of a drop in tax revenue due to the soon-to-expire cuts and general GDP erosion during the economic crisis, Medicare Part D, and Iraq/Afghanistan? Or do you just willfully ignore those things?

FYI, passing ACA, whether you like the substance of it or not, is a legislative achievement of great significance. That alone undermines your ridiculous claim of the President having an inability to make deals with Congress. But since you're visiting here, perhaps you'd like to take a look at one of Steve Benen's charts on the use of the fillibuster in the last two Congresses, and then get back to us re: who's incapable of negotiation these days.

Sorry Calvin---Mass was 50th when he took over and 28th or 30th (depending the web site) when he left. He showed a constant improvement during his 4 years as Governor. He resigned the post and decided not to seek a second term. Don't drink the Koolaid, do your own research!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/05/david-axelrod/david-axelrod-repeats-claim-massachusetts-under-mi/

Did you actually read the article. Politifacts still says that Mitt left Mass with a 47th ranking in job growth as governor. He didn't seek re-election. Because by the time he left office. Most of the state hated him, and he knew he couldn't win.

Granted the article states that Governors Policies have little to small impact on the state economies. But Mitt can't sit back and say he created jobs as Gov. When he in fact didn't. And MA was ranked 47th AFTER he left. Not BEFORE he got into office.

Clearly more of the article than you did. As I said, depends on the site. Romney left office in Jan 2007 and these numbers are calculated annually.

Massachusetts remained 50th in Romney’s first year, but the ranking steadily improved year by year. In Romney’s last year in office, the state saw a 1.32 percent increase in jobs, ranking Massachusetts 28th. http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obama-twists-romneys-economic-record/

Factspeople2016, I don't understand why they keep saying 47th and not 28th. It's absolutely a clear case of full denial. Mitt Romney has one hell of an impressive resume as businessman and governor. If this guy doesn't get elected in November, we're doomed like Cuba and Venezuela.

Facts you should change your name to Falstion,False and Fiction combined.Because everything you have said, has been FALSE,or FICTION.But you are entertainment,i always knew your kind exist,ive just never crossed paths with the real thing..Goodluck,is the only advice i got for ya buddy.

Wait, Cindy - was that snark? Or does not running for re-election because your approval ratings are in the mid-30's constitute an impressive resume as governor? Get on board, America! What a record of governing success!

Side query: if Mitt Romney thought he had an impressive resume as governor of Massachusetts, why, I wonder, doesn't he talk about it more? Hmmm. Can't think of any reasons here. Nope.

For extra credit: please compare the U.S. economy's job growth record over the past 36 months since the depths of the global economic meltdown with the numbers of other industrialized countries, then give us your thoughts on how Obama's fared in that category as compared to Romney during the early '00's recession, and describe how we're on our way to being a third world economy. Or were you really just telling us, in a delightfully reality-free Tea Partier way, that you think the POTUS is a two bit dictator?

x

Hello All, "Cindy" and "Facts" you've got bad data. Mitt Romney entered office as Governor of Massachusetts with a 66% approval rating. In the four years that he was in office, he managed to slide down to a 34% approval rating. He did not seek reelection because he was unwanted. In fact, when he left office, MA elected their first Democratic Governor in five elections.

Here are some of the relevant ratings for you:
http://veracitystew.com/2012/05/19/romney-ended-governorship-with-34-approval-rating/

Now about those pesky jobs:
"Facts" your own source states that during Mitten's term in office, MA ranked 47th out of our 50 states, "Only Ohio, Louisiana, and Michigan fared worse." Oh, and of those three, one was hit by Katrina. The only reason that Politifact garnered the claim a "half truth" was in warning that "job growth" should not be used to identify one politician's policy or action flaws, as "job growth" has many contributing factors that a single politician - even one with great power - cannot control.

Hmm....

So, Romney supposedly shouldn't be held wholly accountable for the lack of job growth under his leadership as Governor. BUT WAIT!!! That would ALSO mean that Congresses' deliberate filibustering of Obama's attempts to pass legislation to assist national job growth SHOULD be taken into account when discussing Obama's ability to function as a leader. The argument that you've run to against Obama's job record is inappropriate. Obama should NOT be held singly liable for Congresses' intentional actions against him (and the Democratic party in general).

You can't have it both ways. Either both men have poor job records, and it weighs equally on them, or neither man has a poor job record, because outside influences overtake one politician's ability to control that factor.

It's basic freaking logic.

Nope but He did buy one as a kid. Then outsourced the production to someone else. Sold it at a cheaper price. Then fired the lemon aid stand workers. Keeping their retirement money and using it as venture capital. To buy a hot dog stand two blocks over.

Okay...that's hillarious.

However, so has most middle to large cooperations in America....My current employer included. I hate it but they all watch the botttom dollar and are responsible to thier share holders!!

I'm not going to knock Mitt for being successful. But don't sit back and tell me. That you are better qualified to run the country. When you built nearly your entire net worth. From outsourcing jobs from this country. And turn around and say. That you are the solution to the problem you helped create. That's like having a person with 6 DUI's. Teaching Drivers Ed.

Factspeople2016, get back to work. By the way when I went to school "their" not "thier" was the correct way to spell "their" and "shareholder" was a word.

Let me explain something you might not appreciate, most small to medium business owners I know would rather eat glass than follow the path blazed by Mitt Romney. Getting rich off of your employees retirement funds is just wrong on all kinds of levels. You have to be a graduate of the Harvard business school to think that stealing retirement funds from your employees is honorable.

Ron--- I do as I am a small business owner...bone head. Is "bone head" two words or one? I listen to others all morning on the radio here in Atlanta stating the taxes that the current POTUS has created is crippling them and that these same owners had to lay off employees due to these taxes. Clearly you have no clue what it takes to run a small business.

So you have proof that Romney was stealing from his employees retirement funds??? Of course not or he would be in jail.

The "Taxes" created by the current President? The man extended the Bush tax cuts for God's sake. He has repeatedly cut taxes for families making less than $250k a year. I run a small business as well and I have no problems with Obama's tax policies.

Is there no end to the falsehoods that you'll try and propagate?

factspeople2016,

Since you have been listening to the radio this morning, and people complain they are being crushed by the taxes Obama has created, can you tell us exactly what taxes they were talking about. The reality is this President has reduced taxes consistently.

I am the owner of two businesses one small and the other medium. Only a chuckle headed fool makes employment decisions based on tax rates. If you really are the owner of a small business you should realize that hiring decisions are made to meet demand. If the demand is there you hire to take advantage of the demand. If the demand isn't there you let people go. Taxes are something you pass along to your customers.

If you are a small business owner and are making hiring decisions based not on demand but on tax rates, you really do have to get back to work and learn a little about how business works. I feel sorry for your employees. Their boss is a fool.

Facts - What taxes are you talking about that are running small businesses out of business? I run a small business and our taxes haven't budged since Obama took office.

Lousie- I will admit "taxes" should have read Obamacare which is a tax on all of us. Perhaps even Ron can wrap his mind around that.

Louise - please take your lunch hour and find an inaccurate statement I quoted. You all can continue to ignore the facts and bury your head in the sand or keep weakening our country.

I love how everyone on this site is a small business owner :)

Timothy- Bush created those cuts.....

If you'd do a little (non Fox) reading you'd see that the Government's own CDO has disproved the Ryan / Romney / Limbaugh Hurricane of BS that Obamacare is more expensive in the long run, in reality it, (as we who care about such things), keeps the infirmed, elderly, children and impoverished from being kicked off private FOR PROFIT plans. There is a hardship plan for those that can't afford to pay the mandatory fee, as well, most Americans will see no or very little change by Obamacare. The falsehoods of Rationing of care, Death panels is crap, and Ocare keeps healthcare more accessible and affordable. The Corporate feeding trough will be smaller for Pigs like United Healthcare, that have been making money off of denying Grandma's surgery for YEARS. The way some of you Righties act, you'd think he's opening death camps or something. Btw, I am a business owner in the NW and I take my lunch hour whenever and wherever I like.

"Facts" - seriously, where do you get yours? That "tax" (which you haven't seen any part of) isn't driving anyone out of business. In fact, if you have a truly small business (less than 50 workers) you're not paying anything new or doing anything else at this time. If you're REALLY small (less than 25 workers) you may even get a tax credit for a minimum of 35% of your premium costs. Don't believe me? Here's another link for you. I suggest you take some time and read this to find out what's ACTUALLY in the program for small businesses.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2011/january/thinking-about-health-care-ppaca’s-impact-on-small-business

Now, just so it's already covered: the whole reason everything is allowed to be payed for this way is because of something Reagan did when he was President. Yeah, that Reagan. When he passed COBRA, he included an unfunded mandate called EMTALA requiring nearly all (there are few exceptions) hospital ER's to treat all critical care patients - regardless of nationality or ability to pay. Then he failed to include any way for the hospitals to later pursue payment or be reimbursed by the government.

So - it was a Republican who set it up so that ER's would become huge money drains for hospitals. Let a few decades pass, and you have ER's closing because of people taking advantage of a badly-created system. In part, the individual mandate in the PPACA attempts to get a majority of Americans insured so that they can afford to pay their ER bills if they require emergency treatment. It funds the mandate that Reagan passed, and we've all been using ever since. If you have an accident, and you're not carrying i.d. you'll still be cared for at the ER if your injuries require it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

Funniest thing, the only lemonade stands that I've ever seen were bankrolled by Mom and Dad and usually Mom and Dad were in the background, helping to construct the stand and making the lemonade,,but of course the kids will tell you that they built that business themselves. So to start a successful life, you have to have the financial advantage of parents who can afford to either loan or give you money. That is kind of how Mitt got his start.

Republicans only have a problem with success if you are a Democrat. If Obama was a Republican he would be a shining example of success.

If Obama was a teapub he'd be a saint already. Saint Barack Hussein Obama.

I agree.Further more there should be a separation of Big Business,and Government.More light should be shinned on this issue.Business- men don't have any business making decisions for the country,and what wars need to be fought'and influencing what laws should be passed.Keep Business where it belongs,keep food in the groceries stores,gas at the gas stations,stay on wallstreet and the market.Let the Government handle Country issues.Keep my roads safe,school open,the justice system working,Hospitals running,lets country policies and laws,come from Government officials not Businessmen.Why,becuase corporation's is not a person'and wont look out for the good and will of the ppl.Corporations jobs is to protect and maximize profit,most Repub. ask whats wrong with that.Greed is not in the best intrest of the ppl.And all corporation have that same problem,,Greed.i can prove corporation's are not ppl,,,in Japan,it is a tradition,if a person is found guilty of a crime by his boss,that person will cut off his limb's,or take there life by stabbing themselfs.Not one corporation can do this,,because of greed,they won't cut there business out when they do wrong.They keep it open sucking dry tons of ppl on the way down.If corporation are ppl,lets cut off there finger,but wait do they have fingers?,,ppl do.

Mrs. Ann Romney said, "Mitt Romney was not handed success," she said. "He built it."

Question: I thought Mitt's father built it?

@Lupe Hernandez: Please don't confuse them with the facts!

chris030763 - I think the well worn irony of Conservatives "Govt stay out of my life" seems to escape these Choice / Gay rights legislators. Of course they can always fall back on God's pat on the head for those who are "Righteous".