At the Republican National Convention last night, Paul Ryan told so many demonstrable lies, he raised important questions about his character and what's left of his integrity. What matters next, however, is whether anyone notices.
It's come as something of a relief to see so many media professionals go after Ryan for his dishonesty last night. The Huffington Post homepage this morning featured an all-caps headline that read, "Paul Tales: Ryan Misleads Again & Again." The AP ran a decent fact-checking piece; the center-right Washington Post editorial board raised concerns about Ryan's "misleading" rhetoric; and the center-left Boston Globe editorial board said Ryan's lying "may hurt his own credibility."
I'm well aware of the fact that the vast majority of Americans will never see any of this scrutiny, but other reporters, editors, and producers will, and if a consensus begins to emerge that Romney/Ryan is fundamentally dishonest, this is likely to influence the public's perceptions of the race.
But let's not ignore those inclined to give Ryan a pass. Howard Kurtz said last night's speech included "distortions," but it didn't matter, because the speech "worked." Similarly, Charles Mahtesian noted some of Ryan's more obvious falsehoods, but said the dishonesty was irrelevant -- "This was a political speech, not a policy seminar, and style, tone and rhetoric mattered as much as anything else. By those measures, Ryan scored big."
Chris Cillizza named Ryan one of the night's "winners," for "eloquently" delivering a well-written speech "packed with great lines." What about all of the claims in the speech that were obviously untrue? Cillizza didn't mention it. Evaluating "delivery" matters; evaluating the truth is someone else's job.
And as we talked about earlier, CNN's Wolf Blitzer and Erin Burnett briefly acknowledged the fact that Ryan's claims were wrong, but dismissed the importance of the falsehoods because he "motivated" Republicans.
Not to put too fine a point on this, Ryan, like his running mate, tells obvious falsehoods because he's confident there will be no consequences. He simply assumes he can lie with impunity because the media doesn't care to separate fact from fiction.
This is a critical test of the political world, and a few too many are failing.
Leave a Comment:
Cronkite must be rolling over in his grave right now.
I saw this earlier. I had to doubled check to see if I was on the right website.
This was a one of the gems:
Ah...if only this delicate Southern flower knew how to play poker!
http://www.policymic.com/articles/13822/how-to-tell-if-paul-ryan-is-lying
They are merely telling a bigger form of the lie that we tell in some form to ourselves every day:
The message resonates with everyone in that respect- the question is whether we listen to that voice. There is always that 2 year old inner voice in us that will say:
....NO. Mine!
That is where Paul Ryan's Boyish charm comes from.
The NO! Mine! voice.
I understand that with Twitt magic underwear allows the wearer to see and say things that others may "disagree" with,,, but whining Ryan has to cross his fingers?...
He gets to confess his sins to a dude, whose inner society of dudedom like many other denominations excludes women. If he had to confess to a nun, he would have his knuckles rapped.
As MY mama used to say 'Integrity. You either have it or you don't'. I'll take my mama's teachings ANY day.
Lies work.
repeating the lie in debunking the lie only reinforces the lie.
It's a no win.
Dems need to start telling outrageous lies, if only to hear Cons squeal about others pulling the Reps dirty tricks, and to have the Dems debunk thier own lies ... thus reinforcing their own lies, and to put on the puppy dog eyes and go 'golly, we said that (insert lie) isn't true, what more do you want?'
The only flaw in your plan:
IOKIYAR
The conservative beltway press will not let the Dems get away with the level of mendacity that the Republicans display.
Uhhh..they began a few months ago.
Right. Because the MSM would totally give Democrats the same kind of free pass to lie they give Republicans. Yeah, ask President Gore how that works.
You know, Al Gore? The guy whose loss in 2000 was due in no small part to a systemic press narrative casting him as a serial liar based upon calling things he actually said that were actually true lies and saying he said things that were flat out made up by, primarily, Cici Connally of the liberal WaPo and Kit Seelye of the liberal NYT?
I've read most of the posts in this forum and no one has actually stated what he lied about. Gore has nothing to do with this election.
@Factspeople2016 - don't you have your own critical thinking skills? Why do you have to be spoon-fed the truth about Ryan's lies? Why aren't you interested enough in your own right to find out whether Ryan is telling the truth, or whether he's lying to you? Why don't you tell us what you think Ryan offered up last night that was actually true.
Factspeople2016, go read Sally Kohn at FoxNews. She has a great article outlining the dazzling distortions in Ryan's speech. That's right, not even FoxNews could tolerate the lies.
Here is a quote from Kohn's piece:
On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan's speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/08/30/paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/#ixzz252ueJrYX
I've read most of the posts in this forum and no one has actually stated what he lied about. Gore has nothing to do with this election.
Try these five, you brain-dead ignorant piece of something I scrape off my shoe:
1. Ryan forged his reputation in large part by drafting and advancing an unpopular plan to dramatically cut and privatize Medicare. Though he didn’t mention that plan once on Wednesday, he included it in his last two budgets, both of which preserved the Affordable Care Acts cuts to Medicare — taken mostly from overpayments to private insurers and hospitals. Instead, Ryan once again accused President Obama of being the true threat to Medicare. Obama did use those Medicare savings — in the form of targeted cuts in payments to providers, not in benefits to seniors — to pay for the health care law. Ryan’s budget calls for using them to finance tax cuts for wealthy Americans, and deficit reduction. But by now calling to restore that spending commitment to Medicare, Ryan and Romney are pledging to hasten Medicare’s insolvency by many years.
2. Ryan said the Obama presidency, “began with a perfect Triple-A credit rating for the United States; it ends with a downgraded America.”Standard & Poors downgraded the country’s sovereign debt rating in 2011 because congressional Republicans, of which Ryan is a key leader, threatened not to increase the country’s borrowing authority — risking a default on the debt — unless Democrats agreed to slash trillions of dollars from domestic social programs and investments. Ryan even briefly toyed with the idea that the country’s creditors would forgive default for “a day or two or three or four” as long as Democrats ultimately agreed to GOP demands.
3. Ryan criticized Obama for — yes — not using government funds to prop up an auto plant in his district. Ignoring the inconsistency of a Republican chastising Obama for not bailing out more auto manufacturers, the plant in question closed before Obama’s inauguration in 2009.
4. Ryan chastised Obama: “He created a bipartisan debt commission. They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing.” Ryan sat on that commission. He voted against it. Following his lead, so did the panel’s other House Republicans.
5. Near the end of his speech, Ryan claimed the campaign’s top priority is protecting the poor. “We have responsibilities, one to another — we do not each face the world alone,” he said. “And the greatest of all responsibilities, is that of the strong to protect the weak.” Just under two thirds of the dramatic spending cuts in Ryan’s budget target programs that benefit low-income people. That plan also calls for large tax cuts for high-income earners.
How about these lies. The President needs to assume responsibility for blockage to keeping a Triple A rating, a failed jobs bill, and taking millions out of Medicare (716 mil.) False,false, and false.
Or,"President is a ship trying to sail on yesterday's wind". While we the silent majority have been battling the headwinds in a lifetime hurricane of trickle down economics.
Ryan alluding to the quality of education can be predicted by zip code. Under the Ryan plan, the next generation will not only be educated by zip code, but the quality of health care will be allotted according to zip code. Need will equal the inverse of supply.
June- you were the one complaining, not me. I look up anything you have to offer.
Ron here are the first two I pulled from the site you referenced:
Fact: While Ryan tried to pin the downgrade of the United States’ credit rating on spending under President Obama, the credit rating was actually downgraded because Republicans threatened not to raise the debt ceiling .
Ron – Seriously man, you cannot agree that raising the debt ceiling was a great idea!! You and can't extend our credit limit anytime we want. It sounds to me that the Repulican where trying to teach the Democrats that they can't spend their way out of the mess that the POTUS inherited.
Fact: While Ryan blamed President Obama for the shut down of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin, the plant was actually closed under President George W. Bush . Ryan actually asked for federal spending to save the plant, while Romney has criticized the auto industry bailout that President Obama ultimately enacted to prevent other plants from closing.
candidate Obama: 'I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.' That’s what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight."
The citizens of Wisconsin voted for him in hopes this plant would remain open. It was still producing light duty trucks in a limited capacity until April of 2009.
@Facts, where do I start from the beginning lines when Paul Ryan stated that the Presidents "policies" didn't work? Of course they didn't work, cause they never got a vote, the House GOP has been too busy writing bills about my uterus to focus on those "JOBS, JOBS, JOBS" that they promised leading up to the 2010 elections! Oh, I know that auto plant in Wisconsin that closed in December 2008 under Bush's watch before the President was inaugurated on 20 Jan. 2009?! Or how about that "stimulus money" that even Paul Ryan wrote to get some of for his district to "help save & create jobs"?!? Or how about Ryan's plans to kill Medicare & Social Security - because the GOP has been trying for years to "privatize" those babies, and just imagine if those programs had been "privatized" back in 2008 - every working American would have been shafted by that PONZI scheme! Not to mention that the GOP wants to repeal the few rules that are in place to control the abuses of Wall Street on the rest of US!
I don't know what it is that GOTP supporters such as yourself either hear or don't remember about how close to the "edge of the ledge" that America was in, but really you people need to snap out of your delusion that the GOTP is going to do anything that benefits anyone more than the top 1%!
It was still producing light duty trucks in a limited capacity until April of 2009.
Really? That is your response? That a few dozen workers stayed on to shut the plant down after it was closed during Bushes presidency. I can see why you have trouble telling truth from lies.
Actually I didn't saw a few dozen workers....YOU DID. It appears more like 5 dozen workers were there until April of 2009. yes, far less than 2000.
Your missing the point. When he visited the plant he made the statement "If our goverment is there to support you, than this plant will stay open". I'm not insinuating he caused GM to crash. I'm stating that he gave them a dream of keeping thier plant open and they voted for him. It appears to be half true for both side. Just trying to point out the obvious!
M913....Lies---
1) Harry Reid- Romney's not paid taxes in 10 years.
2) Romney killed my wife cause she passed from cancer....4 years after I was let go. I think that is the slimiest comment I've ever heard!
Factspeople - the question is still open - what do you think Ryan offered up last night that was true?
June- I like that you and I can at least have a dialogue. I only caught the end of his speech so I'll need to watch it and get back to you.
"Facts" lives in Republican WackoWorld, where up is down, in is out, and day is night. Like most Republican "facts" this troll is a lie from beginning to end.
That he is stupid enough to argue against raising the debt ceiling demonstrates just how stupid stupid has to be to be stupid enough to be a Republican.
TC...Clearly you believe through more spending and growing the goverment we can improve the economy. We all just realized your an idiot for wanting to place the load of debt on your kids and grandkids. Please stay home the night of the election.
No need to worry... you won't have to pass a drug test to get that next check!
Facts...something that seems to evade factspeople.
Under Obama, gov't spending at it's lowest rate in decades
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/05/22/153293789/under-obama-federal-govt-spends-at-lowest-rate-in-decades-says-journalist
And the GOP believes improving the economy means no regulations, more tax cuts for the rich, and trickle down economics, ALL of which have shown to be an absolute failure.
And the GOP believes that deficits don't matter, a quote both cheney and reagan made, NOW, somehow, matter.
And you are trying to persuade lurkers who come here not to vote. And that right wing troll tactic will fail. Because you are the one who sounds ignorant, bigoted and just unhinged.
And your "drug test" comment shows just how ignorant, bigoted and unhinged you are.
Donna- it doesn’t take a genius to look at 5 trillion dollars and determine he spent more in 4 years than Bush did in 8 years! Bush ran 2 wars!
Rex Nutting’s (YOUR LINK) column was proven to be BS. Within 24 hours of Nutting’s MarketWatch column his numbers had been completely discredited. The Washington Post Fact Checker column gave Nutting’s version of Obama spending record “Three Pinocchios.”
You can find it here http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuze/2012/may/29/just-how-much-can-obama-get-away/ and on the WA PO’s web site.
Not trying to persuade anyone not to vote…It’s your right to vote but make an informed choice. Don’t vote because of skin color.
Farts, but it does take an imbecile right wing troll to think that Obama's spending is the only thing driving the deficit.
Rex's column was proven BS by Wapo and Boortz? Your lunatic right wing slip is really showing now, farts.
And an informed choice is that of voting for Obama. And you are on a site that is left leaning peddling your bull@!$%#.
Go away farts.
The Romney/Ryan Ticket,is working under the axiom that,the voter and media are stupid,dumb and because the economy is in mediocre state,[t]hey would not have the intellectual ability to discern what policy works and what doesn't.Just replace the guy.
-We've seen evidence of the voters stupidity in 2010 and there ample evidence that the media is lazy,dumb with little understanding of Policy intricacies.
So I think while their maxim is correct,The question remains,Would the American Voters show the world that They are actually and permanently Dumb and stupid? That is the questions!
"It was best of times,it was the worst of times.It was the age of wisdom,it was the age of foolishnessIt was the epoque of believe,it was the epoque of incredulity."
Cillizza must have had a typo. I'm sure he meant the speech was "packed with great lies."
You're expecting way too much of Chris Cilizza
The immediate reaction to a red-meat speech is emotional. In this, Ryan compares to Palin after her speech. In fact, they have a lot in common. This should not be ignored as the campaign continues.
Since when does lying to the public not matter?
That's my old-fashioned view.
In reality, of course, lies get little attention unless they are lies having to do with sex. We don't impeach Bush for war crimes, but we impeach Clinton for lying about what he did with "that woman."
And Todd Akin gets far more grief for misunderstanding reproductive biology than Ryan does for co-sponsoring a bill with Akin to force rape victims to carry their rapists' children.
Clinton was impeached because the US military, under the UCMJ ( Uniform Code of Military Justice) holds all military personnel to the same standard. He was an okay President but he has to be held to the same standard that we are were\are held to. I’ve seen quite a few service members busted down in rank for the same thing he was slapped on the wrist for.
I've seen quite a few servicemen get away with rape.
In my unit there were a few cases of statutory rape, and I knew our senior NCOs were aware of it.
There were also a few cases of guys committing adultery, but I only knew of one who was given an Article 15 for it, and that was just because his platoon leader had it in for him.
And that's how it usually worked. If you were in good with the leadership, and your actions didn't draw attention outside of the platoon, company, or battalion, the MOST you would get is a letter of reprimand (IOW, a "slap on the wrist").
But if you were a "troublemaker", or was on anyone's sh!tlist, anything that violated the UCMJ would get at the minimum an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment, one step below a court-martial).
Then your leadership should have been replaced if this digusting behavoir occurred within your Army unit. All you need is a BN CO to pull rank from a soldier unless they were senior NCO's. The term "statutory rape" is used in some legal jurisdictions to refer to sexual activities in which one person is below the age required to legally consent to the behavior
SAL- in my 18 years, you shouldn't have if your leaders were doing thier damn JOB!! That's what the IG (Inspector General) is for.
Thanks for reminding me, "Facts" that some of the dumbest morons I ever met I met in the service. You would definitely have been one of them.
"Your leadership should have been replaced" sounds great on paper, but in the reality of the Army, especially in the infantry, not so much.
Infantry battalion COs didn't get too wrapped up in the off duty lives of their soldiers, as long as, like I said, it didn't draw too much attention to the unit. A 19 year old E-2 having consensual sex with a 15 year old, even if it's officially classified as statutory rape under the UCMJ, isn't going to make that private's commanding officer lose too much sleep.
I'm not saying I agree with this behavior. I always discouraged the soldiers in my squad to avoid it, and luckily never had to deal with it. I'm just saying that the reality of what actually goes on isn't so cut and dry.
TC...Clearly your lazy ass doesn’t get out very much. Most who enter the military are kids just learning to be good citizens and support our country unlike yourself. The percentage of military personal versus those who did not serve are more likely to be productive citizens and make something of thier lives. Have you forgotten that the military is a small percentage of our communities?
Me...I'm a former Marine and now I work in the IT Field. You need a little intelligence and common sense for that my lazy friend.
Read the post of 2Manchu...He sounds like a great squad leader. We could probably even get you to put down the crack pipe!
And factsdon'tmean@!$%# to me,
You sound like the guy that shot up that sikh temple.
Just sayin.
In the interest of steering the conversation back in the direction of rationality, the Presidency, as Constitutionally defined, is a civilian office which serves as the Commander in Chief of the armed forces - not a member of the military, and thus not subject to the UCMJ.
Sarcastic props to the troll, though, for successfully steering the conversation into a completely irrelevant cul-de-sac. (eyeroll)
Vulture/Voucher 2012
Proving Two Rights DO Make a Wrong!
;-)
Donna-So let me get this straight….Facts mean nothing to you and you compare me to a racist murderer while you are wearing a shirt that says RACIST on it. (click on her picture) Let’s look at the facts…I’m a recent former US Marine who defended your racist beliefs three times. You’ll vote for whomever tells you there going to do something and you could care less if they did it or not because accountability means nothing to you. Bold statement your making and that’s why you should stay home on election day!
Good job Old Pretzel…Spoken like a true lawyer…. Perhaps he’s not governed by the same set of rules as military personnel but you would expect him to act with the utmost dignity while serving in that capacity. You would have probably giving him a little dap for disgracing the office. It was relevant conversation as someone eluded to it in an earlier post.
Your tag line confirms what we all believe (Proving Two Rights DO Make a Wrong!)….moron. On election night please let the grownups take care of adult business
Good ole "Facts" - resorting to name-calling. And, while claiming online to be a "recent former US Marine" who fought for our rights (though maybe not one, btw - every Marine I've ever known, and I've known a few, has told me there's no such thing as a "former" Marine - Marines are Marines for life - but I'll take you at your word for now) immediately pivoting to urge voter suppression.
You don't like our opinions. Got it. Good to know. Fair enough. You don't have to like them. We're still entitled to have them, to express them and... to vote on them. Whether you agree with us, or not.
And, you know what? I don't hope that you stay home on election day (and, btw, the voting takes place during the day - the results get tabulated that night). I hope you do get out, and vote your conscience, however misguided I might think your opinions are. I hope all your fellow wingnuts do, too. Because then our victory will be all that much more legitimate... and sweeter. But of course, I am a liberal, and I actually believe in democracy. Why don't you?
Vulture/Voucher 2012
Proving Two Rights DO Make a Wrong!
;-)
factsdon'tmean@!$%#tome,
First of all this is not a picture of me. And: the t shirt says "racism sucks," so you again, are shown for the punk ass bitch that you are.
And you are a marine who gets off on shooting and bullying people. It doesn't mean a damn thing other than that because you prove that you are a bigot every time you post. The dude who shot those siks was also a military man, so now what, troll?
As for your comment:
Same thing applies to your ignorant ass.
And I WON'T stay home on November. I will vote for Obama, just like many others will. And your ignorant ass can't stand it.
well with all the lying and non-facts from the last few nights, but it all plays for the biggest one of them all to put all the lies together, and make it sound like a platform.
LOL
The romney team already said they are not running on their fake platform , blitzer and burnett will give them cover on that BS also
Next show, you need to get air rights to Elton John's "Lies" as background music while covering Ryan's whoppers.
You can call his album "There Goes Lyin' Ryan."
Liar liar pants for hire.
To refresh our memories on how some of Ryan's constituants have felt about him:
wn.com/paul_ryan_townhall_arrests
This was when he was cancelling town halls to duck questions. I guess he has decided that instead of avoiding questions.... He might as well just answer them....a lie is as good as the truth when the public is gullible!
You sit there and watch this Republican Convention of Deceivers and Liars and you come to understand why you don’t run for political office. How can people sit there and be so deceitful and lying everyday. It just shows how these people don’t hold any truths, ethics or morals. But they do know how to be so power craving, greedy, corrupt, arrogant, hypocritical, and deceiving big time. And you see how fast the extreme wealthy flock into Tampa to bribe these political candidates that in the end result in driving everybody else to poverty, poor work conditions, a destroyed environment with major health risks, and vanishing benefits for everybody, except the rich. This is just too disgusting to watch at times.
Chris Cillizza said
Ryan'sBrutus' speech was one of the night's "winners," for "eloquently" delivering a well-written speech "packed with great lines."Here are few more "great lines"- From a well known rebuttal!
Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears;
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious:
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answer'd it.
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest--
For Brutus is an honourable man;
So are they all, all honourable men--
Come I to speak in Caesar's funeral.
He was my friend, faithful and just to me:
But Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
He hath brought many captives home to Rome
Whose ransoms did the general coffers fill:
Did this in Caesar seem ambitious?
When that the poor have cried, Caesar hath wept:
Ambition should be made of sterner stuff:
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And Brutus is an honourable man.
You all did see that on the Lupercal
I thrice presented him a kingly crown,
Which he did thrice refuse: was this ambition?
Yet Brutus says he was ambitious;
And, sure, he is an honourable man.
I speak not to disprove what Brutus spoke,
But here I am to speak what I do know.
You all did love him once, not without cause:
What cause withholds you then, to mourn for him?
O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason. Bear with me;
My heart is in the coffin there with Caesar,
And I must pause till it come back to me.
Bravo!
Frankly, I was unable to continue watching this event, although I tried to do so with an open mind. The rhetoric was exhausting, boring and extemely disingenuous- even for politicians! So sad...
And now the PAC money advantage will kick in, driving home relentlessly each focus-group tested lie, while the a sad few in media point out that they are lies, but that it doesn't really matter. The Republicans are hijackers, terrorists really...
"The arc of the moraluniverse is long but it bends towards justice"
I believe this. I believe that the liars will eventually be held to account, and that they will not be rewarded for their consistent mendacity.
I tend to agree. Indeed, I need to believe you're right. For me, however, the vital question is how much damage will they succeed in causing before they are held to account. I sometimes despair to think of how much damage they've already managed to cause...
Vulture/Voucher 2012
Proving Two Rights DO Make a Wrong!
;-(
Watch the media to see who honestly calls out Ryan for his blatant lies and misrepresentations ... and who doesn't. The GOP is corrupt. That is reality. It's not a matter of opinion, the GOP is corrupt. The media is also corporately corrupt to a great degree, and we shall see who among the media plays along with Ryan's lies. We'll see who does and who does not say the GOP candidates have no clothes. Romney/Ryan are corrupt. I'll especially be watching David Gregory, because David Gregory is like a GOP operative. Halperin will also be interesting to watch as he has been totally in bed with the GOP this week. Gobama!.
So how did the traditional TV networks do on this test?
Surprisingly, one could read the story posted by
FoxCBS News reporter and all around Rmoney go-to gal Jan Crawford's write up over and over again without once encountering so much as a hint that there might have been a bit of truth-stretching going on in that speech.ABC's website, to its credit, put up the AP's fact check. Arlette Saenz takes a deep dive into the Blaming Obama for a GM plant closed under Bush dumpster. No idea how they covered it in real time.
And then, there's NBC/MSNBC's Michael O'Brian write-up. He's just there to transcribe and tell you how it affected the delegates fee-fees, for Pete's sake. What, do You People over on the Maddow side think he's supposed to be some kind of "truth vigilante?"
Thanx Steve
I couldn't believe how much the MSNBC cast last night harped on the GM plant closing, even attacking Gov. Walker. MSNBC said over and over again the plant closed in 2008. BUT, that was not the case...see this local article from April 2009.
Now, was the plant producing vehicles in 2009? Yes. Were GM employees still working at the plant in 2009? Yes.
Did Obama say,
Did it lead this effort? No.
Those are the facts. I wonder if we will see any MSNBC commentators address their error? Probably not...
RobDon according to the article you cite "more than 2,000" employees were laid off when the final GM vehicle rolled off the line on Dec. 23, 2008. Another 1,200 supplier jobs were lost.
The plant kept 54 employees on to produce a few more Isuzus before closing for good in 2009.
From 2,000-3,200 employees (depending on whether you count the supplier jobs as well) producing GM vehicles to 54 employees producing Isuzus, don't you think it's fair to say the GM plant shut down?
As for Janesville, we can split hairs about the actual closing date as much as we want, but one fact remains; without the economic collapse brought on by Bush Administration policies, the plant never would have been in danger of shutting down, in either 2008 or 2009.
MSNBC Producer...I think you make valid points. I'm not exactly sure of when the employee numbers quoted in the article were laid off, the sentence is not clear. I don't see where you get there were only 54 GM employees producing Isuzus?????
What I do know is that there was still a production line in April 2009 up and running as a GM plant. President Obama said in October of 2008 AFTER the plant announced its upcoming closing that he would...
Now, are you saying that since it was almost practically closed, this is why Obama couldn't do as he stated and why it makes it a lie for Ryan?
It is not a lie to say it was still open and operating in 2009, is it?
Ryan's evidence
We asked Kevin Seifert, spokesman for Ryan's U.S. House campaign, for evidence that Obama promised to keep the Janesville plant open and failed. (Ryan will be on the November 2012 ballot both for his House seat and as Mitt Romney's running mate.)
Seifert cited this portion of a February 2008 campaign speech then-Sen. Obama gave at the Janesville plant:
"And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, it’s where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and that’s the future I’ll fight for as your president."
That's a statement of belief that, with government help, the Janesville plant could remain open -- but not a promise to keep it open.
Seifert also referred us to Brendan Buck, a spokesman for the Romney-Ryan campaign. Buck cited a Detroit News article on the same speech, saying the article made clear that "it was the takeaway from the event that (Obama) was pledging to keep the plant open if he got his bailout."
That might have been Buck's interpretation. But the article reported that Obama, who later provided an $80 billion auto bailout, had pledged to help keep the Janesville plant and others like it "viable." That's not quite the same thing as pledging keep the Janesville plant open. We find nothing in the article that he explicitly promised to keep it open.
Our rating
Ryan said Obama broke his promise to keep a Wisconsin GM plant from closing. But we don't see evidence he explicitly made such a promise -- and more importantly, the Janesville plant shut down before he took office.
We rate Ryan's statement False.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/aug/29/paul-ryan/did-barack-obama-break-promise-keep-gm-plant-open/
The NY Times op-ed calls him on it. I tried to listen to his speech and had to stop at the 716 billion remark. Really Ryan? The same amount YOU take out of Medicare? You criticize one of the few bright signs we have of curtailing health care costs. This is the elephant in the room. Only Democrats have the cojones to reign in those costs. Republicans will spout lies and then go back to their corporate masters and whisper "don't you worry!"
What a sleaze ball.
Advance copy of Mitt Romney's speech to Republican National Convention set to animation ... Hilarious but scary, because it's the way he actually thinks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfTm7LdeJUo
Brilliant video, except I think it make Mitt look to life like.
I was at a tattoo shop and Pinocchio was getting a tattoo of Paul Ryan.
Ha, har. Gobama!
There were those in another land in another time who went to an electorate with the idea that if the lie is big enough, told often enough by someone viewed as sincere, patriotic and charismatic - political and governing power could be had for the taking. They were proven right - in 1932 one of the most advanced, cultured and sophisticated nations in Europe voted in what turned out to be their last general election for 15 years. We had a similar close call that year as well - but we fortunately elected a Roosevelt. I think we are drifting into a place where once again - if the lie is big enough....
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the
greatest enemy of the State.
-Joseph Goebbels
I do not expect to see Obama and Biden to lay down on these lies during the debates. Obama is an attorney who is taught to think on his feet, but Romney fails when he is forced to go off script. Romney is going to make a fool of himself when he tries to avoid questions. Biden is no slouch either so I expect he is going to tear into Ryan for his hypocrisy on the budget deficit. When Biden speaks he comes off as everyone's favorite uncle and that will make him more likeable than Ryan. The debates are going to make or break the candidates with so many undecided voters. And the lies are going to catch up with Romney and Ryan.
Mike, from your keyboard to God's and the voters' ears.
sorry, it was going to dupllicate...tho, maybe not such a bad idea!
Exactly Mike , ryan will come off as a sniveling self obsessed ayn rand whiner , because that is basically what he is , that he represents the cream of the crop of gop voters says it all about their party