It was nearly two years ago that Congress debated the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," featuring a near-hysterical Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) warning of horrible consequences if gay and lesbian soldiers were permitted to serve openly.
We heard the horror stories of weakened recruiting, poor morale, a breakdown in unit cohesion, an inevitable lack of readiness during a time of war. Even after the Pentagon and the Joint Chiefs endorsed the change, most Republicans said President Obama's policy was too big a risk.
In case anyone's forgotten, they were completely wrong.
One year [after the official end of the policy], the first academic study of the military's new open-service policy has found there have been no negative consequences whatsoever.
The study, published Monday by the Palm Center, a research branch of the Williams Institute at University of California Los Angeles Law School, found that there has been no overall negative impact on military readiness, unit cohesion, recruitment, retention or morale.
The authors of the study, who included professors at U.S. Military Academy, U.S. Naval Academy, U.S. Air Force Academy and U.S. Marine Corps War College, arrived at this conclusion after soliciting the views of 553 generals and admirals who predicted that repeal would undermine the military, as well as with expert opponents of DADT repeal, a number of watchdog organizations and more than 60 active-duty heterosexual, lesbian, gay and bisexual troops from every service branch.
Every prediction made by conservative critics turned out, not surprisingly, to be wrong (pdf). Across the board -- readiness, unit cohesion, morale, recruitment -- the right had the entire policy backwards.
To reiterate a point from May, I realize that the norms of our political discourse discourage accountability, but I'd love to know how someone like McCain, who fought tooth and nail to keep the discriminatory policy in place, explains how/why his predictions turned out to be so foolish. Maybe during one of his many, many Sunday show appearances, someone can ask him.
For that matter, it's also worth noting that the 2012 Republican platform, shaped in part by Mitt Romney aides, seems to suggest DADT should be brought back -- the Republican document decries "social experimentation" in the military and condemns efforts to "undermine military priorities and mission readiness," which sounds like a position in support of the old policy.
For the record, Mitt Romney was one of the only Republican presidential candidates during the GOP primaries not to endorse bringing DADT back, but he hasn't affirmatively vowed to keep it in place, either, saying in December 2011, "I'm not planning on reversing that at this stage."
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Rule 1: The Right is wrong. Always.
Rule 2: If in doubt, refer to Rule 1.
Rule 3: Even if the Right is wrong, they will repeat the lie until the public believes they are right.
Rule 4: If the Right appears to be right, when they get in office, they will do something wrong.
Respect goes a long way. I think McCain lost his marbles a long time ago, he is obsessed with war and has relied heavily on his experience as a prisoner of war, it has gone to his head and it shows. Most Vietnam vets that I know are against war. He has managed to capitilize on it, I lost respect for him when he voted for the Iraq war, somehow that has diminished his credibility in my eyes.
I'm willing to bet, every single male right-wing nut that is vehemently against same-sex marriage is more than willing to go home or into his office and put in some lesbian porn and whack-off on my tax dime.
I was in the US Army back in the mid 90's when DADT was in its early stages. The thing I think the right somehow never took into account was, rather people where openly gay or not. Most people knew they were regardless.
No I'm not referring to 'gay-dar'. You knew because some of them just all but told you without telling you. And the ones who trusted you did just flat out tell you. The thing that was never an issue was, as long as the person did their job. Nobody really cared who they slept with.
Because ever last one of us that was there or are still in the military. Were so or are so because we chose to be. Because we loved this country. And that has no sexual preference. And regardless of who a person finds attractive or not. Serving in the military deserves a certain amount of respect.
I was never a big fan of DADT. Because it asked those people who were in fact gay. To only serve if they could pretend to be someone they were not. When they chose to serve in the first place, because of the person they are/were. All to appease a small group of homophobes.
That's beautiful, man!
That might be the most sensible thing I have ever read on the subject.
One of the officers on my ship in 2000-2003 was a lesbian. She only told a few people, but everyone knew (including the enlisted in her division). No one cared.
A friend of mine that I went through OCS with was so out I had to wonder why there wasn't a rainbow flag following her around. She and her department head would sit around and discuss the problems they had with the women in their lives.
It IS the most sensible thing, Tweed.girl. Even when Calvin Lundy was in the Army, more than a decade ago, the men and women who put their lives on the line cared how good a soldier one was, not about sexual orientation.
So, when the professional military, from top to bottom, said there was nothing to worry about, religious ideologues, and the politicians they owned, did what they always do- insist that their theology trumps facts and evidence.
The "dramatic" change in attitudes towards LGBT's is probably not as dramatic as it seems. These changes in attitudes have probably been brewing for years, but people were cautious about voicing their enlightened beliefs, until, at some point, it just reached a critical mass, and everyone but homophobes and TeaHaddists realized it was okay to relate to LGBT folks as people.
Mr. Lundy...thank you for your service, your words and your wisdom. I think your post should be referred to as the definitive response to all who question the repeal of DADT!
Very nice Calvin. Thank you. Sometimes I think all those suffering paranoia have lumped themselves together in to what is now the new GOP.
Romney is going to have difficulty trying to reverse course on DADT. The military is not going to be able to put the genie back in the bottle even if they wanted to do so. And I don't think the military wants to reverse course because they are changing just like public opinion on the issue. In fact, public opinion on gay marriage is rapidly changing. The only people who have not changed their opinion, aside from the vocal Republican politicians, are the Christian fundamentalists and Catholic bishops who have little influence over what Catholics think on many social issues. Gay marriage is going to be the last stand for these people and they are losing that battle too. Republicans are finding that some of the wedge issues no longer work. All they have left is abortion.
Don't worry. The mormon organization changes its stance on anything that gets in the way of making money. They had to give up polygamy to gain statehood, so they did. When American blacks started making enough money to be worth tithing, they were accepted into the pyramid scheme. Romney comes by his equivocation quite naturally.
As a Lesbian Veteran with 24 years of service (now a retired E-8 with quite a few ribbons and medals to speak of) I respectfully "raspberry" Senator John McCain.
Excuse me, while I go kiss my wife.
Thank you, Mr. President!
/salute
I think you are wrong about the Republican platform hinting at bringing back DADT. I think they are hinting at bringing back racially segregated units. (They seem to be going back to the '50s, not the '90s.)
Not the 50's but more the 1860's. Then they can go back to hating all minority groups except the WASPs (men only of course).
I think of the Republicans as stuck in "Blazing Saddles" time.
If we were living Blazing Saddles, shouldn't Sheriff Obama have won over the townsfolk by now?
He doesn't have Mel Brooks writing his lines. Wait, maybe he should!
I've never understood the right's obsession with LGBT, and Senator McCain's hystrionics did not change my mind. I served in the military, and OMG yes there were LGBT people in there. Funny thing is NO one ever seemed to have an issue with it, and as long as we all did our job - no one really cared.
I wonder why the Christian Taliban seem to be obsessed with the sex lives of "other people" - which goes way past curiosity into voyeurism. Hey frustrated righties, please get a book - start with the Kama Sutra, experiment in the privacy of your home - then you won't have time to be interested in the sex lives of "others" because you too will be having fun. Just a suggestion.
Immorality: the morality of those who are having a better time.
H. L. Mencken
well said, and i agree. have a little fun in your own bedroom, and the bedroom of others become less threatening/interesting.
"the Christian Taliban seem to be obsessed with the sex lives of "other people" - which goes way past curiosity into voyeurism."
Lesbian Tee shirt: "Yes I am, and no, you can't watch!"
I think they say something unintentionally revealing about themselves with their 'one man one woman' mantra. Wingers long for an ordered world, with everything and everyone in the correct place. If you are not firmly heterosexual or cisgendered, then you are crossing boundaries that they feel must never be crossed. Sexuality and gender are absolutely central to human identity, and it seems pretty clear from their rhetoric concerning the civilization-destroying powers of LGBT people that the idea that sexuality and gender are not binary things is very threatening to their sense of order. Since they see themselves as the guardians of order and of civilization, they obsess.
Or maybe they're just perverted busybodies.
The sexual orientation of the person shooting the gun has little bearing on the person receiving the bullet in between the eyes. I don't care if the serviceperson is so gay that he/she makes the Village People look like a poster for One Man, One Woman Marriage. I care that they can A: shoot and hit a target, B: follow orders with conscience, and C: love this country. Pretty simple job description that in no way refers to liking penis or vagina.
I'll take the vagina. You can hold the penis. Oh, wait. that didn't sound right.
The Village People was a concept group in the manner of The Monkeys (or Kansas if you want a group that actually knew their instruments). Victor Willis, the lead singer, was Phylicia Ayers-Allen's(Mrs. Claire Huxtable) second husband. He's currently married to his second wife. /derail
The Ruling Class has always looked down on the Rest of Us as not being able to "handle" things. Integration, women voting, higher education, even owning property in the 17th C.
Meanwhile, the Rest of Us have been mingling our races, 'hooking up', and generally doing what comes naturally to Homo Sapiens.
That sour look on McCain's puss is the knowledge that he is Irrelevant.
There's an old Scottish saying 'you make the face you wear'.
McCain's face is one of hate and displeasure. Even with all his (wife's) money and countless homes, he'll never be a happy or content person. He wears his hate right up front for all to see.
love your last line
he went even more "sour" ...or maybe the "flavor" is closer to BITTER, after he lost the election to Obama
sore looser, unlike my Senator Kerry the Statesman and true patriot!
Accountability is for democrats. Republicans believe. I believe, therefore I am and you are not.
Just my opinion, but I think the acceptance of LGBTs as common members of society is very much a generational thing. Our grandparents had their heads in the sand and absolutely refused to accept that gay people even existed. Our parents seemed to know they existed, but thought of them as having something wrong with them that needed to be kept under wraps. My generation has been uncomfortable accepting them, but never really comfortable rejecting them either. And finally, my children's generation, now young adults, seems to be seeing that they are every bit as human and normal as anyone else.
And I would place McCain in that first group, Romney in the second, and Obama in the third. Funny how their ages - 76, 65, and 51 - seem to align with my description.
Well said!
The book Generations by Strauss-Howe may interest you if you're looking for patterns in thinking along generational lines. :-)
I guess I would fall within the "parents" category here, and I think you have it pretty much right. It was during the Vietnam period, when I was a teenager, that the unwritten taboo on publicly discussing sexuality (hetero- and homo- ) first began to relax a bit. Around this time, LIFE magazine published an exposé of sorts about a gay service member. The following issue's Letters column featured a two-sentence response from an exasperated reader: "It used to be called 'the love that dare not speak its name.' Now it won't shut up." (I'm reminded of this long-ago lament every time I hear someone complain about "flaunting," "waving it in my face," "shoving it down my throat," or any of the standard complaints about gay people daring to live their lives with the same openness everyone else enjoys.)
So my generation came to acknowledge the existence of different orientations, but were not necessarily raised to be comfortable with them. It wasn't an easy thing to shake off that reflexive homophobia, and it took me some years and a lot of life experience to accomplish it. I doubt if more than half my generation were willing or able to make the journey, and I think we're seeing the results now from the Boomer-generation guys who are running things on the Right.
No Pat Robertson is right on this one
If you never acknowledge that a gay person exists then there are no gays because you don't know about it
But once you start acknowledging that gay people exist then other people will start acknowledging it and since being gay is a choice that then means they'll become gay too
And now look at my generation- those in their 20's- we're all gay friendly and that means there's more gays than ever!
And our children will ALL be gay!!!
This is why don't say gay bills are so important for our national security
#Apocalypse2012!
PS- Since I've had trouble with this in the past I feel I should clarify that this post is meant to be met with levity
Every time I see that photo I think what a beautiful moment that was for those two young women.
I served in the Army for 12 years. Three tours in Vietnam and I never had a homecoming like that. (envy)
God bless those two gals and kudos for their bravery. That took guts, and love, lots of love. I'd proudly serve with them anywhere, anytime.
John McCain has never had to get down in the muck of being an enlisted person or having dealt with day to day life of operations. He's another silver spoon legacy thinking himself better than others. That's no position for leadership, far from it.
Is there a chance for a follow up on how those young ladies are faring today? I'd like to know if there were repercussions for either of them.
OT - I've been trying to market an idea I came up with to care for women veterans that need help/treatment/counseling/shelter. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/18/1092864/-Is-there-a-need-for-my-idea-to-help-women-veterans
Thank you.
I think we can applaud the bravery and love of the two women depicted without smearing John McCain. He is a veteran and a war hero whose accomplishments and sacrifice do his country credit. I can disagree with his stand on DADT without discounting his patriotism or accolades.
Roberta There is evidence that McCains patriotism, accolades, and competence are of the lowest standard. Just another legacy officer that should never have been given either his rank or his opportunities to 'lead' in the political sphere.
I remember one comic who, while the DADT was being debated in 1993, said: "I'm straight; but if some gay guy saves my ass on the front lines, he can have it any time he wants!"
john, you're equating knocking off a piece with human and loving interaction. There's no equivocation.
You probably cast that anecdote out for humor, but the real world is dealing with a much more serious, sometimes life threatening situation because of the hatred and bigotry prevalent in our society.
I've seen my share of combative situations and never did I think that the person next to me could take liberties based on the severity of the situation.
The reasons so many commanders are turning handstands over this policy is because they were losing a lot of good people due to anti-gay -lesbian policy. Now that's a thing a thing of the past, they can concentrate on more important things -- Like defending our nation.
AND as soon as all rights are given to the LGBT community we all, s a country, can move on and stay out of their bedrooms too.
Once I was blackmailed while in the service over something so small and yet, I can never let go of those feelings on that day and time that lay in the pit of my stomach. No being should ever have to bare the feelings of humilation, shame, and insufficiency as a result of sexual orientation.
so sorry. thanks for your service.
Since when has being absolutely, 100% completely dead wrong about a matter of national security been anything other than a deluxe VIP pass for entry into the Beltway Very Serious Person Green Zone? When have any of these assclowns ever been held accountable or, indeed, gotten anything but a bigger megaphone?
And, by the same token, does anyone recall the last time being right was rewarded in that world?
Somebody needs to bring this up at the debates.
In fact, there are a lot of things that if they are not brought up at the debates I will be sorely disappointed in our media / political debate system.
Roberta Chamberlin, you must have missed this: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/make-believe-maverick-20081016
I give McCain credit for surviving as a P.O.W. That had to be enormously difficult. But that alone does not make him a hero, and it certainly doesn't make him the military policy expert he pretends to be. He's just a sad, cranky, bitter man.
Gordona, I am a str8 man who served for 10 years and a comobat vet and i agree with you 100% But You do know JOhn macain was a POW for 7 years and was tortured horribly right? you said he has never been in the muck of us enlisted? well he had it worse then any of us! I mean i dont like the mans politics at all i am Left wing all the way but he was a war hero living through Hanoi Hilton!
But as for LGBT in the military they were in the military before the law was passed and absolutely NO ONE cared. I mean yo uhad your 18 year old testosterone fuled idiots but as for the mature peeps in the military we dont care. do your job and work your butt off next to the rest of us and respect is givin. I mean LGBT are just people. I dont know if i was brought up correctly by my father or what but i treat EVERYONE with respect unless they act like an @!$%# then i treat them like an @!$%#! if only we used the @!$%# rule with everyone! I mean we are not in their bedroom at night and vice versa. I think people who aer homophobic are that way because they themselves are homosexual and repressed and dont know what to do with those feelings? Sad really?
I agree, homophobes seem to often turn out to be repressed sexually.
Also could be what they don't know about scares them, getting back to the paranoid folks accumulating in the GOP. Every republican I know has this cluster of traits: 1. is ready to fight foreign countries without intelligent talking first etc. 2. has a gun under their pillow to ward off home invaders 3. has never thought LGBT issues were "appropriate" and would reference the Bible 4. think that any abortions are wrong while at the same time do not want to fund any programs that would take care of birth control, single women with children or children with disabilities 5. Do not even get the newspaper or read it. 6. Watch FOX exclusively, get all wound up and parrot the lies. 6. Become agitated and explode when any political item is mentioned, even about Romney not liking Pittsburgh cookies.
Gordona,
I am a str8 man who served for 10 year and a combat vet and i am Left wing liberal all the way. But John McCain was a POW you do know that? you said he never slogged through operations like Enlisted did? well because of him he kept a lot of men alive for 7 years in the Hanoi Hilton? The man even tho i disagree with almost everything he says and I live in AZ, agree that the man is a war hero!
Now to the LGBT in the military? WE had G&L in the military before the law was passed. And except for a few 18 year old testosterone fueled retards NO ONE cared. Everyone knew who was gay and who wasn't esp in close quarters do to what type of Porn the person read. I do not believe sexual orientation has anything to do with a person serving. Love of country should be enough. The LGBT have it even harder because they are fighting for a country that wont even let them get married! This is atroscious and hopefully will change someday.
I think Homophobes are that way because they themselves are gay and do not know how to handle these empotions. Ya know i wish we lived bvy a law my dad had me grow up with called the @!$%# RULE. Matters not what your color, religion, sexual orientation, or place of birth is, If your an @!$%# you will be treated like an @!$%#. well anyways hope you all have a great day! Carry on J.
OOPs sorry made changes and posted twice my bad sorry!
Wo... Seeing that would probably boost my morale. ;)
So, living up to one of founding principles of the U.S., equality and justice for all , works pretty good after all. Well, surprise, surprise. Naysayers said the same thing about Truman's Executive Order 9981 banning racial discrimination in the Armed Services.
In my opinion,being in the medical field, the sexual attraction towards another of the same sex is merely a gene displacement. You may get your brown hair from your mother, your long legs from your father, ect..ect..ect..So, if you are a male and end up with the gene that gives you an attraction towards men, you've obviously received this from your mother. Sexual attraction is a must for the species to survive. Or maybe GOD knew some day the population would need controlled,there for he chose to have sexual attraction of the same sex to control the population and at the same time allowing every one to enjoy the love and companionship of another.
Jeanie, hope you work in the front office. The entire human genome has been mapped, no gene for homosexuality. If what you say is true, identical twins would share the same sexuality. If God is so omnipotent as to know the population would eventually need birth control, why do the religious right denounce homosexuality as a sin? It is true that in some cultures, prior to Christian influence, homosexuality was practiced in order to avoid pregnancy. Ancient Greeks indulged in man-on-boy because women were considered inferior. We don't know why some folks are gay, some straight. We used to blame it on poor mothering not too many years ago. I just don't care, I do my best to accept others simply because we share the same planet.
The real reason for opposing the repeal is closely aligned with what the anti-abortion crowd is really about. Just as anti-abortion is not really about protecting the unborn protecting the military is not what the resistance was about.
It is about what Christians believe God is telling them. God tells them that pregnancy out of wedlock is the punishment for having unsanctioned sex. That is why after passing all the anti-abortion laws the right is now talking personhood and attacking birth control.
It was never about babies, if it was they would not gut programs that protect children. It is about making sinners pay.
So McCain was not protecting the military, he was advocating punishing the gays.
In this day and age is this where we are at? Still discriminating anyone we can because they dont believe the same things we do? And its always the same right wing, extreme religious, rich, self-hating homosexual trying to poke his nose in other peoples business. (restroom stall TAP TAP TAP) Being gay or straight doesnt make you any better or worse of a soldier. These men and women give everything of themselves to defend our freedoms and we wont extend those same basic rights to the very people protecting us.
RIght wing religious nuts need to stop hiding behind "moral" high ground because they dont have the slightest idea what it means to be a hated minority group. If they knew what it was like to be picketed, being told your going to Hell, that you cant be with the one you love, and that one day when you get sick you have to go through dying alone because the hospital only allows family in.
Dont Ask Dont Tell is a doorway to many other issues that we as good, caring, freedom cherishing Americans need to seriously alter our laws and public views. The persecution of homosexuals is the very same that African Americans went through, the same that women had to go through and it just cant be the land of the free unless everyone is treated equally.
But there will always be bigots. People will always want to tear others down because they are "bad". The rest of us have to see through their theatricality and deception. While we may not agree with the choices people make, we must keep America free and provide justice for all. "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it to the death" - Patrick Henry