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As we talked about a couple of months ago, Senate Minority Whip Jon Kyl (R-Ariz.) isn't exactly going out on top of his game. The far-right Arizonan is wrapping up his lengthy congressional career at the end of the year, but he's departing on the heels of several sour notes, which have made him appear, at various times, dishonest, confused, and obstinate.
Yesterday, Kyl's standing slipped from bad to worse.
Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona, the second ranking Republican, lambasted the embassy statement, which was released before the deaths in Benghazi and was critical of the anti-Islamic video.
"I don't know if you've ever been involved in victims' rights, but this is like a judge telling the woman that got raped, 'you asked for it because of the way you dressed,' " Mr. Kyl said. "That's the same thing. 'Well America, you should be the ones to apologize. You should have known this would happen'," he said. "For a member of our State Department to put out a statement like that, it had to be cleared by somebody. They don't just do that at the spur of the moment."
In context, Kyl was trying to condemn a statement from the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, which, six hours before Egyptian protests, criticized anti-Muslim bigotry in a fringe YouTube video. It was consistent with a bipartisan tradition of diplomacy that was common throughout the Bush/Cheney era.
It didn't say America apologizes; it didn't say America should apologize; and it didn't say we "should have known this would happen." (Kyl didn't specify what "this" he was referring to.)
And for crying out loud, it's no way similar to saying rape victims deserved to be attacked based on their clothing. Go ahead and read the statement -- it's about respect for religious diversity; not blaming anyone for attacks that hadn't taken place yet.
Indeed, given that it came hours before the protests, Kyl's rape analogy is strikingly dumb, but his incoherent chronology is obvious nonsense.
Maybe this wasn't "intended to be a factual statement"?
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At a Certain Age" senescence sets in.
Sadly, the sufferers are often the last to know.
The maker of this film and Rev, Jones, and the embassy all knew people would be riled, justly or not. To pretend that being pro-active in attempting to cool tempers was anything but wise, is disingenuous, because not doing so would have been foolish. That it did not work has nothing to do with its wisdom.
Like I said on another post: the aim of a diplomat is to be diplomatic. If you think that something is going to cause escalation then you actively work to de-escalate the situation. I'll give an analogy that actually works on a limited level: it's like when you work in customer service. When you know a customer is going to be mad because, say, your machines are broken and you can't fulfill an order, you automatically offer the customer something to ease the information. Like you say we can't print your photos because our machines are broken, we'll give you half off if you take this sticker (or something) that way they will know you came here when the machine was broken. Or sorry our ice cream machine is broken, but I can give you this other desert for free or for a discount to make up for it. It isn't about being submissive (which gasp isn't such a bad thing regardless), it isn't about coddling other people, it isn't about apologizing, and it isn't about weakness. It's about thinking things through long-term to better handle a momentary problem that could become, if not handled correctly, a catastrophic problem (in this case they were trying to assure people in the Middle East that the US did not support this tripe in an effort to prevent riots or another terrorist attack).
The only way you could possibly see this as a controversial statement is if a. you think it's a good thing to mock other people's religion (in which case no more whining from you when people mock your religion and no more whining when other people take offense to the mocking) or b. if you have no earthly understanding as to what the term diplomacy means.
As I have also said before it's like the Republican Party has devolved into a hyper-masculine drunken frat boy who doesn't want to be told what to do, doesn't want to think anything through, and relies entirely on his own genitalia and substance induced emotions to guide him through life.
very astute. good analogies.
Cartoonthenews, I am leaning towards the fact that Romney may have no understanding of what diplomacy is.
Tom, it's not just Robme that doesn't understand "diplomacy" the whole concept is lost on the bullies within the GOP. I think they equal diplomacy = compromise!
Zora Renee, I think the GOP has a lack of empathy for other cultures and that is a very dangerous mindset. The middle east has been occupied by foreigners for a hundred years and the locals are sick of it.
If Mitt Romney has his way it will become much worse before it gets better. I don't think we have enough troops to do things Romney and McCain's way.
When you play with matches and someone is killed in the subsequent fire, the lack of intent is not an excuse. The Republicans should remember this.
Zora Renee, I think you hit the nail on the head. The Republican approach to diplomacy is bullying.
Kyl is 'trying' to go out with 'relevance'...unfortunately, he is a fool.
What is happening in the Middle East and how Romney replies about it shows so much that he is totally not suited to be a President of America. Romney’s shoot first and ask questions later is that same mentality of Bush and Chenney. We know where Bush and Chenney took us to an economic nightmare with a lack of any thorough thought or diplomacy. Romney’s fast track on incompetence would be the absolute worst thing to happen for America. Romney claims to be some business expert and all he did was be a big con man deceiving people to make millions of dollars without any care to what he was doing. Romney just uses people to get what he wants at the cost of others without any regard to how he affects people or the environment. Now where Romney really does owe a major apology to President Obama and the American people for what he has done he never will, because he can never admit to those awful things he has been responsible for. In the meantime, Romney will continue with his deceptions and lies just so he can try to justify his existence and look like he is some great wonder boy asking everyone to trust him. Yes that old business ploy of trust me, don’t worry, I will take care of you. You would think if Romney had any real knowledge or brains, he would have come up with a better lie than that one. We are seeing Romney’s real leadership in his campaign NONE as this is his choices he is making. You want to compare Romney to baseball hitting averages well Romney’s is so far zero and President Obama’s is .990. Of course, this is the typical Republican thought process anyway so it should be no surprise.
Thanks to Republicans they have the rest of the World looking at us like we are big bullies.
Good riddance D-bag, too bad the rest of your "party" isn't leaving!
The only smart thing that he's done was to jump ship before it sinks.
I wonder if his moved from Congress to AZ Republican circles will raise the average IQ of both groups?
Methinks Mr. Benen understimates the number of knuckle-draggers who will be vehemently agreeing with Kyl.
I don't think the majority of Americans think that we should defend the right of a misguided Islamaphobe to freely promote and distribute a hate video. There should be limits. What this "Sam Bacile" put out is vile and racist. A White Suprecemist video depicting African Americans in an equally disgusting way would be universally denounced.
There is a huge difference between defending free speech and endorsing hate speech. When Krauthammer said his response to the statement of the Egyptian embassy was outrage, and he defiantly would have told the protesters to "Go to Hell" there most likely have been a full scale riot.
Sam Bacile does not appear to be a real person. Nor does his identical twin brother Im Bacile. It is starting to appear that this 'film' was not funded by Jewish sources, but more likely by 'Christians'.
What would the reactions be if:
a) A pretending to be 'muslim' produced a 'film' that portrayed Jesus as a drunken homo who raped children.
b) I produced a 'film' using 1930's Nazi propaganda depicting all Jews as butchers and consumers of Arian children.
Freedom of $peech for those who think like I do?
Follow the money trail, Greed is now rearing it's ugly head in religious affairs.
"A white supremacist video depicting African Americans in an equally disgusting way would be universally denounced" but one mocking Muslims is "freedom of speech". This reveals the antisemitic fascist right-wing mind.
The site Mondoweiss has blown the lid of the mystery of who produced the provacative trailer "The Innocence of Muslims". Alex Kane has reported that it was produced by Joseph Nasrallah Abdolmasih, the head of Media for Christ.
SOV, I like your Jesus story way better than the original!(/snark)
When considering this movie and everything associated with it, ask yourself, whose interests are served? Whose interests are served if the US relations with the new government in Egypt go sour? Whose interests are served by deterioration of US support for the new post-Khadafi government in Libya? Whose interests are served with the American Right lining up (now that they have received their marching orders) to go after Obama for being "irresolute" in the Middle East?
Go Google "the Lavon Affair." This is an Israeli false flag disinformation campaign (even the "Christian" who claims to have worked on the movie is quoted as saying he now believes it was a "disinformation campaign.") The real authors of this play sit in Jerusalem saying "Who? What fox? Ain't nobody here but us chickens!" This is Netanyahu's "fall surprise" that he's been threatening to unleash all summer.
Go look at the reports about the "Coptic Christian" who now appears to be behind this project. He has a long history as a con artist, and Israeli intelligence has a long history of recruiting Copts for their anti-Egypt plots.
The irony, of course, is that Mr. Kyl and his ilk are just the sort of people who would blame a woman for being raped, or claim her rape is not "legitimate."
How bravely the talking heads including Mitt are when they are safe and their children are safe. Any blood spilled would not be personal, just boots on the ground and profits. Those of us who have been to war know the horror and misery and for the most part are not bloodthirsty before considering the consequences.
What a good comment. What me so mad about the Republicans and their total contempt for the employees at the Cairo Embassy is the vision I am picturing of being in fear of your life.
There was a movie called Rules of Engagement with Tommy Lee Jones. It was a blantantly anti-Islam movie, but is very illustrative of what those Embassy employees faced.
Charles Krauthammer would have us believe that, had he been there, he would have had his assistants take him to the roof of that fictional Embassy in the movie and shaken his fist in the air and yelled out "You can all go to Hell".
Republicans really need to stop comparing things to rape.
Very Freudian, no?
Maybe because they know they're probably screwed in November. And if they are, I'd call it a legitimate rape.
Anyone, including Kyl, defending Romney's disgusting performance over the last 36 hours and even jumping on his bandwagon, are demonstrating just how unhinged they are.
To them, truth does not matter. Facts do not matter. Honesty does not matter. They have a mission.
All that matters is that they must wrest any perceived upper hand, advantage, or good public opinion, from their true enemy: anyone who stands in their way of completely syphoning off this country's riches for themselves be it tax dollars, natural resources, or removing protective regulations that give victims recourse against the syphoners.
Kyl is squarely among those who do and say anything as part of their game plan to continually attack regardless of the lack of truth in their accusations. The sheer stupidity of his analogy shows that a thoughtful comment on current events is not required to continue his mission.
They all live on a very shallow playing field. They do not play the whole tape through, they never once questioned their existence, they refuse to grow up.They live for consumption purposes only.
For anyone who ever watched or studied how the Stalinist "communists" operated, it is very similar to the operation of the American Right twisting themselves like pretzels to "follow the party line" (as well as the Nazis, but all totalitarians are the same)
Also ironic (or are they related?) that Kyl hails from the great state of Arizona, where this happened last week.
Must be something in the water.
The link you provided had a good bit of Kafka in its jujitsu whetted logic .
I don't believe that therapy will , or should be necessary . If , if I had been more careful it is clear that I could have avoided reading the links contents .
A lesson for all here , there , and somewhere ...
There's too much lead in Arizona water.
Fer crying out loud
Per usual Mr. Benen has zeroed (found / discovered) in on the acting pulse in the swirlish matter . I was rather plussed that the able scribbler squeezed the savvy bit of reductio ad absurdum in a bit earlier . Cue heavy anxiety -
Just a thought , for our dear friends from across de nile , (*now a powerful tool of completing one or another in series after series of last fights) , could be confused by clarity (tis true) . The preferred arrangement for the digestion of opinions , (ad hominem) , no longer confused with knee jerk , should be presented in easily digestible "points" . That these "points" are to be displayed commensurate with the presentation of a simple sample based on digits and thumbs is a proud deflection , best articulated by darlings at age two , to governance as a means of defiance , NO ! .
*Often found loitering around a Rambo / Rambette , Rockie / Rockette's script .
Carry on ...
And another Republican who can't string together three words that make logical sense strikes again. Were you a graduate of "Whole Language" programs in elementary school? Your lack of ability to use logic or write like you actually have an IQ certainly indicates that.
Seriously, the events in Benghazi have become a US publicity bandwagon, and Kyl simply jumped on for the ride. He's far from the only one.
Pastor Jones has issued a statement about himself (video is there too for those who haven't seen it) and sodahead is in repeat all over the net that liberals want to prosecute Jones (liberals consisting of one, no thanks to Mike Barnacle for dragging the entire liberal community into the right's mud, much to their delight.)
This political tennis match is not a fitting eulegy for the life work of Ambassador Stevens and his staff. But perhaps we should blame Stevens for having the temerity to die during an election season.
...perhaps we should blame Stevens for having the temerity to die during an election season.
Actually, the repukes know that the temerity was to die with a democrat president in office. With a repuke president, he would become an American martyr and full justification for attacking Iran.
SadOldVeteran,
Seems that war with Iran will require very little justification should Mitt get elected. Netanyahu’s IDF has roughly 170,000 troops. Does he really believe that he can not only vanquish Ahmadinejad’s loyal legions but also leave enough troops at home to keep that keen eye on the Palestinian settlements? Or is he expecting the US to bolster his numbers? Has the American experience in Iraq and Afghanistan not presented any lessons to ole Nettie about spreading one’s army too thin or the inevitable longevity of a quick "Mission Accomplished"? I am of the believe that some serious diplomatic discussion is taking place right now about the sensibility of making war on Iran.
(PS: sorry jcricket. Didn't mean to swipe your "bandwagon" line in my above post.)
So f*cking what! The bulk of the repukes and their corporately owned media mouthpieces are joining the parade started yesterday by Senators Kyle and Demented. Had on CBS Morning News this morning and they are vigorously into the 'he said - he said' mode. Chuckie Todd started his program with a segment on how the majority of repukes are now justifying the Romney attacks and had on a repuke to lie about the timeline of the statement of the Egyptian Embassy.
Cenk had a post yesterday criticizing Tom Brokaw's equivalencing? the "both sides do it" argument (from the day Matthews criticized Priebence at the convention) where Cenk spoke to wanting journalists to understand the difference betweek being neutral and being objective. Todd is too concerned to interview the person, rather than being objective and pointing out the error of the guest's statements WHEN HE KNOWS THEM TO BE FALSE, just what Cenk was talking about. You're right; yesterday's Chuck Todd was nowhere to be found today, alas.
"[D]ishonest, confused and obstinate"?
Steve, for Kyl that is the top of his game.
I think what Republicans are having a hard time with is supporting free speech, which is in the Constitution. It wasn't clearly written back then but, our forefathers would have never defended hate in any form. My only prayer is that the rest of the World realizes that the majority of Americans are against hate and violence, and that most of us are working overtime to stop it by exposing it within our own Republican government. The devil no longer walks on this Earth, unfortunately a lot of ignorant people do who for some peculiar reason like to incite hate and violence. All you have to do is turn on Fox news and hear it, they actually decided to join the chorus and were advocating hate against the Islamic community. There's more at work behind all this then we know about, there's way too much talk about war going on now, in this Country. Somebody is behind all of this and they are playing an extremely dangerous game. Again, do we really know who is contributing to the Republican party and could they be stupid enough or worship money to the extent of destroying our Country.
What they're having a hard time with is the concept of supporting free speech while vigorously disagreeing with certain content. Nowhere in that statement did the embassy state that such speech had to be suppressed. They just condemned it, which is the strongest form of stating your opposition.
In their black/white world, condemning certain speech means sympathizing/condoning the actions of those who are targeted by that speech. In a more complex world (a.k.a. reality), that often isn't the case.
Sen. Kyl is dumb as dirt. SERIOUSLY.
In further news, sun continues to rise in the east and water continues to run downhill. :-)
Is it me or is the GOP imploding?
Boooooooooooooooooom!!!!!!!!
You may well be onto something Mr. Tancer. the other day, Limbaugh, Ingraham & Co. began talking about abandoning the Republican Party and starting a real Conservative Party if Romoney loses in November.
Kyl's ass hat is too tight again. Makes it difficult for any "factualness" to seep out!
A fearful thought is that the GOP elite would like to nuke the entire Middle East if they could do so without ruining the oil.
Hey now, whoa...hold on...careful...Sarah Palin might just start promoting this!!! You know..."kill, baby, kill"!
When I was a kid,there was a parental consequence for lying. In 2012 apparently Republicans overtly lying is the norm..The American public needs to demand more from these politicians. Revoke their pensions and all of a sudden the truth will come tumbling out of their faces.
like to know which of his advisers told mitt that a cemetery is a good place to try to make hay.
And another member of God's Own Party continues the Stalinization of the Republican Party (wow - Stalinist Confederate Nazis - what a combination!)
Since when has any statement from Republicans been "intended to be a factual statement"?
TCinLA, I rather think FRP+4characters is trying to channel James Joyce. Unfortunately, communicating one's thoughts in a manner capable of being understood requires more than simply an immense vocabulary. As does literature.