CNN released an interesting poll yesterday that, on the surface, appeared to offer bad news for incumbent officeholders, especially President Obama. A plurality of Americans believes they're worse off than they were four years ago, and only a third believes the economy is in good shape.
But the larger question is more important: who do Americans hold responsible for our ongoing challenges? I put together a simple chart to show why Republicans are discouraged by the results.
Maddow Blog chart based on CNN data
Among registered voters, the results just aren't close -- a 57% majority holds George W. Bush and Republicans "more responsible for the country's current economic problems," as compared to 35%, who blame Obama and Democrats. Among self-identified independents, the results were nearly as one sided, 53% to 37%.
In fairness, I should note that the results were a little closer among likely voters, and the percentage blaming Obama and Democrats is up slightly since last year. But by every measure, most Americans still aren't satisfied with the status quo, and most Americans still blame Bush and the GOP, not the president.
Campaigning in Iowa a few months ago, Mitt Romney said of Obama, "He's trying to find someone to blame. He tries to blame President George W. Bush; that happened so long ago, people have forgotten that." Apparently, that's not true.
To put it mildly, this matters a great deal in the 2012 presidential election.
Not only does this help explain why Obama can maintain an advantage despite a deeply frustrated electorate, but it also reinforces Romney's challenge -- he wants to stock his cabinet with Bush veterans, he's tapped Bushies to help run his campaign, he's running on a very Bush-like agenda, and even the Republican National Committee has conceded a Romney administration would effectively be the same thing as a Bush administration, "just updated."
The public's appetite for a third Bush term, however, is quite limited.
Is it any wonder so many Republicans are trying to bully Democrats into not mentioning Bush? The GOP seems to realize their fortunes rest on voters forgetting about the former president altogether.
Leave a Comment:
"that happened so long ago, people have forgotten that." Apparently, that's not true."
Especially untrue of the spouses/parents of those killed in Iraq.
If four years is 'so long ago' it is no wonder why Mitt can not remember when he left Bain. If he would just admit he is senile one could forgive him for his faulty memory. I will never forget GWB's presidency, nor will I forgive it.
That's OK, GW forgives you.
Shooter; the secret service wouldn't let you within 50 miles of GW's house, so you couldn't possibly know what is in his mind.......
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@ Lesman,
We all know whats in GW's mind.
Nothing of value.
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The GOP has not been able to remove GW from the history books yet!
That crappy troller Shooter is still here. Guess they are upset that their distraction program doesn't work on the informed!
Actually it's primarily Clinton's and his Treasury guy Rubin's fault. Janet Reno threatened banks into subprime lending, Democrats took advantage of sweet heart loan deals, Rubin single handedly blocked transparency for derivatives and instigated the repeal of Glass-Steagal.
Bush isn't blameless, but it sure wasn't all his fault. Now, take it away howling hordes! Heh.
Why the goading? It's not very civil. Impotence? Still?
http://moelane.com/2012/06/09/troll-hunting-101/
So the question remains... what do you find offensive, disagreement or being nice about it?
I'll play both sides to be fair. 1. Shooter is a troll who doesn't use facts, doesn't prove his statements that he calls 'fact,' and isn't civil on this blog. I am for free speech, but you need to back a skreed and not be hateful; Shooter does not meet this test, and just carpet bombs. 2. "The rich take too much of the pie." I haven't seen this open ended generalization on this blog, but I can't defend any kind of open ended statement like this on any side. O has not conducted a rich vs. poor campaign, and the right wants you to buy into this fight so they don't have to deal with the fair share of paying for things. We need to determine what is 'fair' in an open debate by both sides, but I will never make such a generalization in a rant. Maybe Shooter is trying to teach etiquette to his birther buddies.....
A chemistry student named Tate,
was heard to remark to his date,
"Because of the stink,
a fart is, I think,
just poop in it's gaseous state."
I absolutely agree that the deregulation under Clinton played a huge part in the economic collapse, but it's going a bit far to say that it was "primarily" his fault when he had been out of office for over seven years when the house of cards fell down. Surely Bush made SOME economic decisions and policies during his time in office! And if he made none at all (not true, btw), then a careful neglect is also a policy decision of a kind.
But let's say you're right. Let's say that 99% of the blame for our current economic woes should be allocated to Clinton because of the loosening of economic regulations that occurred during his Presidency. I'll totally give this to you. Let's say that our economy would be booming if we only had Glass-Steagal back. If that's the case, why are Republicans working so hard to prevent those regulations from being reinstituted???? In fact, Republicans claim that there are still too MANY regulations on businesses. They want to take Clinton's policies--which I just hypothetically conceded to you are abysmal failures--and push them into overdrive. Democrats are willing to learn from past mistakes and are trying to fix them, while Republicans are trying to repeat them and make them worse, by your own definition. You might want to think about this line of attack; I don't think it accomplishes what you want it to do....
Shooter; you need to go study the history of Countrywide mortgage, then call us back. Your premise is like me going back and blaming the recession of 80 on Herbert Hoover. I don't recall Janet Reno threatening anybody; your reasoning is like blaming poor people for getting loans in the go go year of 2005, they didn't really qualify (due to fraud by banks) and the banks made a killing, people then defaulted, then it was somehow the poor's fault! The republicant's then scream "no need for regulation, we'll self regulate!" Derivatives were created because there was an absence of regulation, just as the mutual fund business was created as a new business from the stock market. Sub prime lending has been around since time immortal; ever hear of the 'Money store?' Please go do some homework, then come back and tell me exactly, with facts, how Janet Reno threatened people into sub prime lending.
No, it didn't actually, Lesman. It would have been all stoppd in its tracks if the mortgage companies had been held in check. W Administration repeatedly failed to listen to warnings on that.
That is not to defend Clinton signing the bills inspired by one of the worst senators of all time: Phil Gramm.
Shooter, I'd answer your question but it assumes you want an answer to your question. You don't. You just want people mad. Because it gets you off. But apparently...today...it's not enough. You feeling OK? The voices in your head not singing in perfect barbershop quarter harmony today? I'm sorry you're having such a tough time, but that's no excuse for incivility.
http://moelane.com/2012/06/09/troll-hunting-101/
Lesman, I always tell the truth, and I always have documentation. I also have a tee time so I'll follow up with more later....
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2209&dat=19931216&id=6ORRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IZQMAAAAIBAJ&pg=5375,3633046
This is a funny.. I thought the picture was a cocktail. Ya know, shooter... surly drunk.
Enlarged, I see a basketball and a hooplaaaa
Shooter, wipe your mouth, you have a piece of BS hanging off your lip. Or maybe that's some blueberry pie!
Shooter was the one stealing the all blueberry pie, evidence hanging from his lip.
Yes, Clinton signed the reversal of Glass Steagall, While being put under duress by rich greedy bankers, which at the time Clinton had been impeached, and therefore should have never been implemented! Also that was at the end of his very successful Presidency. He turned around another messed up economy left by another messed up Republican Presidency. Uhmmmm anyone see a pattern here?
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Funny thing about the Sub-Prime mortgage,
As implemented under Clinton interest rates started high and after a period of payment and building of credit the borrower could re-apply or re-fi for a lower rate.
Under GW those sub prime loans turned into loans started at low interest rates which would reset to much higher rates, or had a balloon, or an APR, and then were bundled into investments which solidity was lied about to investors.
As started under Clinton Sub Prime was a good idea, but then comes Shrub and sub prime got perverted into something that crashed the economy.
You see, we bought our home under the Clinton plan. When we went to Re-Fi for home improvement and lower rate under GW Countrywide tried slipping an APR and Bubble in on us, I about went through the ceiling.
So you want to play the game of assignment of blame and credit to the President in office at the time of particulr events, OK.
Shooter linked to a hit piece. More context:
http://www.fairhousing.com/index.cfm?method=page.display&pagename=March-April_1994_Page3
Shooter242 has "a tee time?"
I've heard lots of euphemisms for masturbation, but that one's new for me...
Does that make that old filthy gym sock you use to clean up your caddy?
http://moelane.com/2012/06/09/troll-hunting-101/
Folks, you are NOT going to get rid of this hemorrhoid by using sand paper on it. Let it alone and it will die.
One of the first things GW did was to get rid of the surplus on purpose. To paraphrase, we should give this extra money back to the people with a tax cut. It should have been used to pay down the debt.
Friday lyrics for Friday... (Thanks for the recipe postings you've been sharing, DisgustedWithItAll! It's hard to get to the early stuff here on the West Coast!)
Seven a.m., waking up in the morning
Gotta be fresh, gotta go downstairs
Gotta have my bowl, gotta have cereal
Seein' everything, the time is goin'
Tickin' on and on, everybody's rushin'
Gotta get down to the bus stop
Gotta catch my bus, I see my friends (My friends)
Kickin' in the front seat
Sittin' in the back seat
Gotta make my mind up
Which seat can I take?
It's Friday, Friday
Gotta get down on Friday
Everybody's lookin' forward to the weekend, weekend
Friday, Friday
Gettin' down on Friday
Everybody's lookin' forward to the weekend
Partyin', partyin' (Yeah)
Partyin', partyin' (Yeah)
Fun, fun, fun, fun
Lookin' forward to the weekend
7:45, we're drivin' on the highway
Cruisin' so fast, I want time to fly
Fun, fun, think about fun
You know what it is
I got this, you got this
My friend is by my right, ay
I got this, you got this
Now you know it
Partyin', partyin' (Yeah)
Partyin', partyin' (Yeah)
Fun, fun, fun, fun
Lookin' forward to the weekend
Yesterday was Thursday, Thursday
Today i-is Friday, Friday (Partyin')
We-we-we so excited
We so excited
We gonna have a ball today
Tomorrow is Saturday
And Sunday comes after ... wards
I don't want this weekend to end
In my post at 10:14 am, I said: "No, it didn't actually, Lesman."
That should have been: "No, it didn't actually, Shelley Barnard."
The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act that repealed Glass-Steagall was enacted in November 1999. Clinton's impeachment trial was in January of that year. The bill passed the Republican majority (in both houses) Congress with veto-proof majorities. Clinton signed it knowing it wouldn't make a difference.
Banks and other financial institutions had been heavily lobbying for the repeal of Glass-Steagall for thirty years or so.
Sanford Weill, the head of Citigroup at the time who was a major driving force behind the repeal, was recently quoted as saying it was probably a mistake.
You have to remember that Willard used this argument to get his Chit from the Bush family for endorsements, which he has cashed in. H.W. is now no friend of Planned Parenthood, and he should renounce his lifetime membership, or it should be pulled for being a traitor to woman's health reproductive issues...... For Shame Willard, and the Bushs........
Truth is that while WE can blame Dubya for much - 2 unfunded wars, tax cuts tilted towards the richest that also robbed our surplus and left US with a huge deficit, the ill-will around the world because of his un-diplomatic stances, his ineptitude - he was totally responsible. Frankly, our "democracy" has been under attack by both the left and the right - the biggest difference is the left has awakened and realizes that they have colluded to throw working Americans under the bus with the policies that have been enacted; and yet the right is committed to a false economic ideology that has given rise to the corporate fascism that is usurping our democracy!
Right now WE have a President who is at least trying to bring balance back into our lives/government - yet the sheeple see it not! The fact that more Americans are awakening to the propaganda that's being throw at them from the right is giving me hope that all people in this country haven't been as dumbed down as I might have thought. Romney would be Dubya on steroids - and that's exactly what WE the PEOPLE don't need right now, another spoiled rich kid playing President, cause WE have all seen and been paying the price for his ignorance!
Obama is trying to fight a battle where he has public opinion on his side but he seems incapable of getting voters to look to Congress because they are obstructing any progress with the economy. I would hope that he sharpens his attacks on the Republicans as we get closer to the elections. Obama and the rest of the Dems need to stay unified on one overriding message, that people in Congress are playing politics by obstructing the business of the country while working people are getting hurt. A coordinated message allows Dems to be saying the same thing in all races across the country. Even those Dems who are keeping their distance from Obama can use the message. And it can be a message that can be run on a national basis shortly before the elections to counter the flurry of negative ads.
Other than to point to the examples of Reagan's and the two Bush's 'trickle down economics' as proof that it doesn't work, there's nothing to gain by looking back to place blame. The real question is who will do a better job to get us out the canyon? The answer is Obama, with a new Congress devoid of obstructionist Tea Baggers.
I think presidents get too much blame for these economic problems. I believe most of the blame should fall on congress for letting special interests write legislation or not write legislation.
I agree with Pres. Reagan, but for a totally different reason, when he said "government is the problem."
sooo...a government, of the people, for the people, by the people...is the problem. Are you saying it's the people who are the problem? Not sure what your "different reason" is for agreeing with Ronald Reagan's statement which he meant the same way Republicans/Tea Partiers today mean it and want to destroy it, a la Norquist's bathtub size. Is that what you agree with or do you want effective government like the rest of us?
What I was trying to say is I don't like rich and powerful lobbyists having too close a connection to legislation. I believe there are some in congress that are paying more attention to the lobbyists than we the people.
The problem with the government, is with some of the people elected to represent us.
True, we have the best Congress money can buy. But don't expect them to pass any law taking money out of their pockets anytime soon.
Some hemorrhoids are still trying to insist the Great Recession is the fault of the CRA, Fannie/Freddie, Chris Dodd and Barney Frank.
Sorry hemorrhoids, that one has been debunked for four years:
- Private Wall Street Companies Caused The Financial Crisis — Not Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Or The Community Reinvestment Act | Political Correction
- Get Me ReWrite! | The Big Picture
- Charts for the “Facts of the Economic Crisis” Column | The Big Picture
- Fannie / Freddie Acquitted | The Big Picture
- Fannie and Freddie Fantasies | The Big Picture
- What caused the financial crisis? The Big Lie goes viral - The Washington Post
- Fannie/Freddie Market Share Plummeted During Boom | The Big Picture
- Private sector loans, not Fannie or Freddie, triggered crisis | McClatchy
- Cause and Effect
- The Big Lie of the Crisis, Called Out By the Press : CJR
- Fannie Freddie Further - NYTimes.com
Revisionist history is blatant in the political world; how else would you get Coultergeist saying sic "Joe McCarthy really wasn't that bad of a guy!"
GREAT POST. The CRA article is on point.
Franz Liebkind in The Producers:
In fairness, I should note that the results were a little closer among likely voters
I want to know more about the pollsters' likely voter screens. I don't imagine they're deceitful (well, maybe Rasmussen's) -- I just wonder if they're based on "voted in 2010 midterms as well as 2008 presidential election." 2010 was a year that a lot of Dem voters stayed home and a lot of Republican voters decided they'd crawl through ground glass if necessary to punish the Kenyan usurper at the polls and restore FREEDOM. If that's the pollsters' test, I'm not sure it's a good one.
Both sides massage polls on certain questions, and with certain collection methods. You will never get a truly fair poll, but the big question is always the margin of error, and what that margin is. The next thing is 'How accurate is the poll in telling who would actually vote?' I think this is where most polls fail, and the margin sets in. The only thing you can really do is average the polls......
Ok, originally it was GWB's fault, but the last four years, the slow progress has been totally the Repub congress' determination to block everything with the sole purpose of defeating Obama this year. They throw Americans under the bus only to attain power.
Sure do. And they still are:
Rape-Public-CONs complain about timing of Fed's move to improve the economy
So... understand, Americans, they really, really want to help improve the economy. You know, just not right now (or any time in the last several years). Got to be careful not to let Democrats get any credit for it, after all.
Because, what's really important? Helping Americans, or Rape-Public-CON partisan maneuvering? The Greedy Old Party's answer to that question is painfully obvious by now.
Vulture/Voucher 2012
Proving Two Rights DO Make a Wrong!
;-)
Wow. Stop the presses! Willard said something that's not true. Wait - that's not news. Does Willard ever say anything that is true?
"I'm Mitt Romney, and, uh, yes, Wolf - that's also my first name." [Willard's quote appears at ~ 1:24 in the linked YouTube video]
So, the Rape-Public-CONs are hoping enough of us have Bushnesia? Sorry, but there isn't enough "brain-bleach" in the world to make me forget those domestically incompetent war criminals - not until justice has been done.
Hey - Willard. I demand to see the long-form worth certificates!
Vulture/Voucher 2012
Proving Two Rights DO Make a Wrong!
;-)
Pretzelogic..Condoleeza Rice would never have been the GOP pick for VP because of her alleged war crimes. She is not free to leave the US. I would love to hear that she had been arrested abroad and renditioned to the Hague to stand trial. Why has the International Criminal Court not indicted her and the rest of the GOP nazis?
.
I'm not familiar enough with the operations of the ICC to be sure why it hasn't acted. Rice, however, is far from the only member of that administration to have issues with foreign travel now.
Bush had to cancel a visit to Switzerland
and
Cheney cancelled a speaking engagement in Canada
and
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Addington, Haynes, Bybee and Yoo (and, if I'm not mistaken, the UK's Tony Blair) were all convicted in absentia in May by a five panel war crimes tribunal in Malaysia modeled on the Nuremberg trials. Even granting that Malaysia has its own issues to resolve in the area of human rights, I'd have to agree with the author of the linked article that this is a pretty big deal, and likely to be a complicating factor (to say the least) in any international travel plans this crowd intends to make.
Vulture/Voucher 2012
Proving Two Rights DO Make a Wrong!
;-)
im just curious what finacial deregulation took place under clinton, wasnt that ronnie george h and george w
Most frustratingly, IMNSHO:
The Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act
So, no - I'd say our party is hardly "blameless" over time.
But, we seem to be trying to learn from our mistakes, while Rape-Public-CONs are still wondering "Is our children learning?" (See - I do remember Bush!)
Vulture/Voucher 2012
Proving Two Rights DO Make a Wrong!
;-)
Did you read the part where it passed the Republican Congress by a veto-proof majority, so CLinton's signature was moot?
The economy is better than pundits allow. Why not focus on those states, or local areas that are doing well for a change. In the Triangle of NC home sales are up 25% from last month and home prices are holding steady. One reason the Fed chairman and his group decided to act now was the fact that homes are starting to move and this might increase borrowing. When the housing market comes back we are on our way. So lets make sure Obama is in the white house when this happens so he gets the credit, and not Romney who claimed he would add 12,000 jobs when economist say no matter who is in the next 8 years will see about that many jobs added.
"that happened so long ago"
SO long ago? Is he kidding? Hell, I still remember NIXON! Why do these people think "We the People" are so stupid? Must be because just enough of us didn't remember... though NOT A MAJORITY.... but just enough, to steal 2 elections.
It all began with Ronald Reagan's deregulation which encouraged the Savings and loan Crisis. then came harsher credit card student loan rules of bankruptcy, then Greenspan lowering interest to encourage more consumer spending and refinancing and finally mortgage companies and brokers useing loose practices to creat and bundle bad mortgages. The bundled mortgages were then marketed worldwide as good investments in US property. It all goes back to poor regulation. Squarely on the GOP.
I have to say that the general public/voters are impressing me. Normally, they don't grasp when economic downturns started and love to blame whoever is in the White House. Of course, the GOP decided to block everything Obama tried to help the economy (including the recent jobs bill) because if they became the "Party of NO!" it would guarantee Obama one term.
I wonder looking at Romney's behavior and current polls how that plan is working out for them? I'd love a reporter to ask a few Republican members of Congress on camera. Something tells me Mitt is not going to be a happy man in November 7th.
I still say blame it on Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. Dodd bailed out and sweet Barney is leaving to be with his husband or wife.
Could you tell us (a link or two would be good) which of the Barney Frank conspiracy theories you allude to? There are so many of them, I've lost track, but I'm sure one of them has to be right.
DisgustedWithItAll, I rather enjoy the responses to blanks. They're either incredibly informative or marvellously funny. What more could one ask for?
As far as the whole "Are you better off?" thing, Jim Wright hits the nail on the head:
http://www.stonekettle.com/2012/09/are-you-better-off-well-are-ya-punk.html
By the numbers: 'Are you better off?' (from CNN.com)
By Caitlin Stark, CNN Library - updated 3:57 PM EDT, Thu September 13, 2012
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/13/politics/btn-are-you-better-off/index.html?hpt=po_t1
9.4 million -- Number of people unemployed in August 2008.
12.6 million -- Number of people unemployed in August 2012.
6.1% - U.S. unemployment rate in August 2008.
8.1% - U.S. unemployment rate in August 2012.
3.4 million -- Number of job openings in the U.S. as of July 31, 2008.
1.6 million -- Number of long-term unemployed (jobless for 27 weeks or more) as of August 2008.
5 million -- Number of long-term unemployed (jobless for 27 weeks or more) as of August 2012.
6.1% - U.S. unemployment rate in August 2008.
8.1% - U.S. unemployment rate in August 2012.
3.4 million -- Number of job openings in the U.S. as of July 31, 2008.
3.7 million -- Number of job openings in the U.S. as of July 31, 2012.
1.6 million -- Number of long-term unemployed (jobless for 27 weeks or more) as of August 2008.
5 million -- Number of long-term unemployed (jobless for 27 weeks or more) as of August 2012.
Federal Reserve plans more stimulus
Another round of Stimulus won't create jobs
Above data came from CNN? It can't be reliable, right? They're not FOX news.
Finally!!!!!!!! GWB Jr. receives credit for this horrendous financial crisis. Americans are finally opening their eyes to the obvious truth.
I urge you all to go see Booktv's review of David Wessells Book "Red Ink". http://chasmcduffee.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-many-watermelons-in-hot-air-balloon.html I have the links at my blog or go directly. Great review, great questions. I urge Maddowblog staff to bring Dave Wessell on to plug his book. ( I don't know the man.) I could understand him and therefore somewhat more about the budget. Maddowblog crew please tell Ezra Klein about this guy, he has charts and graphs.