Associated Press
Obama at a 2008 fundraiser
As the political world digests the significance of Mitt Romney's "47 percent" controversy, I've seen this comparison come up quite a bit.
It was just four years ago that Obama was recorded at his own closed-door event talking about how people "cling to guns and religion" when things don't go well in their lives.
The parallels between the two situations are striking; both feature the candidate inartfully characterizing people who support the other team. Of course, Romney's comments will be much more important to this campaign, given that they aren't four years old.
Conor Friedersdorf is thinking along the same lines, referencing "Mitt Romney's 'Clinging to Guns or Religion' Moment."
The superficial similarities are, of course, obvious. Both involve presidential candidates getting caught on secret videos saying something politically embarrassing, while speaking behind closed doors to supporters.
But I think the parallels effectively end there. In fact, on a substantive level, the two secretly-recorded videos are actually opposites.
It's been four years, but if you go back and look at Obama's comments, the then-senator was talking about white, working-class voters who feel politically skeptical as the economy has left them behind, but he told his supporters that he intends to fight for these voters' support anyway. Obama defended these folks, said they have a right to be "bitter," and explained why he felt like his plan would meet these voters' needs.
Romney's comments, meanwhile, offer an entirely different perspective -- instead of defending those who may skeptical of him, the Republican is writing them off, chastising them for considering themselves "victims" and failing to "take personal responsibility." While Obama's comments show his desire to fight for every last vote, even in communities where he wouldn't expect to be popular, Romney said, "[M]y job is not to worry about those people."
They offer fascinating bookends that tell us a great deal about these candidates' values, but to see them as similar is a mistake.
Update: Jon Chait had a good piece along these lines, explaining, "Obama was aspiring to become president of all of America, even that part most hostile to him, in the belief that what they shared mattered more than what divided them. Romney genuinely seems to conceive of the lowest-earning half of the population as implacably hostile parasites."
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Coming from the Upper Ohio Valley area (Eastern Ohio, Western Pennsylvania, and the panhandle of West Virginia), I know these people very well (many are relatives) and they do cling to their guns and religion, the latter because it rationalizes their hatred of blacks, gays, and liberals (and Obama meets two of those criteria) and the former because that is what they would use, if they could, against their perceived antagonists.
Haven't you heard, @Tom? Obama meets all three of those criteria!
Rachel,
Could you explain to me on your show why it is 47% and NOT 8% that do not pay their income taxes?
If only 8% of the people are unemployed, aren't the rest paying their income tax and others through payroll deductions?
Why aren't the fact checking sites explaining that the refunds are given AFTER the taxes are paid????
Also...
Why are the Republican'ts so upset?
I thought they were all in favor of less taxes?
Last but not least...
Can you explain to me why people collecting entitlement insurance when they need it most are being called "Moochers" by Romney?
Do they call people who collect private insurance claims moochers too?
Why is collecting on public insurance when you need it is freeloading,
but if you collect from private insurance you deserved it?"
Sounds like...
"if you built it and you're successfull you did it,
but if it failed it's the government's fault."
Thank you Rachel, I am looking forward to seeing your show.
I wish they would all pay more attention to the part of the comment where he says he can never convince these 47% who pay no fed. income taxes to take personal responsibility for their lives. That statement is completely at odds with the spin statements they have been trying to make in response that he wants to help all Americans. He in fact is saying that 47% of Americans are beyond his help and that he isn't worried about them. As we know from all the breakdowns of this 47% figure though, this number includes elderly folks who have worked and paid into SS their whole lives, returned military who are accepting veterans benefits, and working class folks who have taken advantage of legal deductions such as the child care credit. How offensive and flat out wrong that he suggest that just because you pay no federal income taxes, you refuse to take personal responsibility for your life. And how ironic coming from the guy who apparently tries to hide as much of his money from taxes and uses any loophole his lawyers can find to decrease his tax payment. Why is it okay for him to game the tax system, but somehow an indication of refusing to take personal responsibility for one's life when the working classes claim their deductions/exemptions?
NolaAustin: "Why is it okay for him to game the tax system, but somehow an indication of refusing to take personal responsibility for one's life when the working classes claim their deductions/exemptions?"
My question exactly. It seems to be a virtue and demonstration of business acumen to pay as little in taxes as possible. I imagine that Romney and his ilk pay hundreds of thousands of dollars or more annually to CPAs and lawyers to insure that they pay little, if any federal income tax, and even qualify for refunds. And, what percentage of the revenue from their businesses is directly or indirectly from government contracts, federal, state and municipal? Where does the government money come from that goes to pay for the government contracts: Defense & military, infrastructure, schools, prisons, public housing, etc? How many in the 47% are corporations(people) that pay no federal income tax? Someone needs to ask these questions of the media. Why are they not informed enough to know to ask these questions?
Great questions. Let's not overlook that a great percentage of the 47% include minimum wage and low-wage workers who work every day but just don't earn enough money to fork over Federal taxes.
Also let's not overlook that this business about the child care credit and the earned income tax credit is a Republican device (I'm almost very sure) to replace traditional welfare in which a government check was given and work was not required.
Rachel, please check out and inform us all.
A Story from the American Middle Class
I would like to tell you the story of my friend Sam. Sam was born in the 1920’s. Having lived through the Great Depression as a boy, he helped his parents as did his other 8 siblings to make ends meet. Sam learned to be frugal and practical from his experience; he saved money and never ever wasted.
Sam married his High School sweetheart; he enlisted in the United States Army and was sent to fight in the Korea. When he returned, he had a son. To make sure he could care for his family he re-enlisted in to the United States Air-force and then was blessed with a Daughter. All was well and life was good for the new family. Sam worked hard, they struggled, but they were happy and life was promising. In the mid-60’s, Sam already in his 30’s was sent to Vietnam, where he “SERVED” his Country bravely.
While Sam was serving in Vietnam, some like Mitt Romney were receiving deferments, to do things like go on Mormon Missions in Paris, France. But not Sam, he was overseas serving the Country that he loved, leaving his family behind. Unfortunately, Sam did not make it back without consequence. He came back a Disable American Veteran.
For almost six months the military did not disclose what had happened to Sam, Sam’s wife, tried to find out…One day the Military Pastor took it into his own hands and told Sam’s wife he was in Wichita Falls, but will only be there for one day they are sending him to a hospital in California. Sam’s wife packed her two little children and went to Wichita Falls, by herself and she missed him, Sam had already been shipped out. Sam’s wife was devastated.
She never gave up on the love of her life, she packed those children up and she drove from Texas, to California all by herself and she found him.
Let me jump ahead a little to make my point. Sam was released on full retirement after quite a few years. Sam’s wife worked two jobs to make ends meet. She took care of Sam but Sam never gave up. He went to college on the GI BILL and became an accountant. He could now take care of his family and again the future looked promising. Because the United Stated Military and the United Stated Government; did their part.
Sam and his family had a wonderful life, but Vietnam eventually caught up with him and in his late 40’s could no longer work. His son in his last year of College, with bills piling up, Sam’s wife again worked two jobs to make the families dreams come true.
His Son finished College and went on to become an executive not at a Wall Street Brokerage but at the American Red Cross, Bio-Medical Services a NOT-FOR-PROFIT to give back for all that had been done for his father and his family. For this family that was SUCCESS. Sam’s Daughter went on to marry a County Firefighter. Sam has three Grandchildren he loves very much. This family made it Mr. Romney with the help of the US GOVERNMENT and they are thankful and not prideful….they are just hard-working Americans in the Middle Class.
Sam is now in his 80’s; he lives on Social Security and is with his son. His long-time sweetheart and wonderful wife long gone……IS THIS THE MAN AND THE AMERICAN FAMILY THAT MITT ROMNEY is referring too when he said this, “47 percent who are with him (President Obama), who are dependent upon government”?
Sam did his part and he served his Country bravely and proudly and yes he is supporting President Obama, but how dare Mitt Romney look down on Sam, Sam served his Country. What has Mitt Romney done so far but LIE to us and LOOK DOWN ON US with contempt. Who is he to look down on half of America?
You know what Mr. Romney this family has a good life, and they were not victims. But they did benefit from US GOVERNEMENT, Disability, Social Security, the GI BILL, VA Hospital, US Military…and they are good hard working Americans and Sam SERVED HIS COUTRY with his LIFE! Did you go to Vietnam Mitt?
Great story, Yahoo Thom! These are the stories that should be on everyone's minds when they go to vote in November.
Why are so many ignoring the OTHER comments Romney made in that speech? There are some real, serious issues there. Listen to what he said about Palestine/Israel. And pay attention to the words he uses about Tel Aviv. (Anyone else remember the stink the GOP made about the Dems not specifically stating that "Jerusalem is the capital"?) Or listen to what he says about Latinos and his father's heritage.
Now, if we could see the tax returns of all the people at that dinner. How much you want to bet that a good portion of them pay no income tax because of loopholes?
Let's not forget Romney's comments on his visit Global Tech Appliances in China for investment purposes. An over populated work camp and Bain Capital investment 1998.
....
"THANK YOU" to the person who recorded Romney.
There's proof of what we knew all along.
...and since the person tried to post that video on youtube under Rachel Maddow's name, maybe they read this blog... and she said last night she accepted the apology.
Let's take a journey! To meet some of the 47%. Let's say you work in a big city, in a large downtown building. It's lunchtime. You go down in the elevator to the ground floor, look to your left, see the security desk with two security officers, two minimum wage employees or maybe they make a couple of dollars an hour above the minimum--$8.75 to $10.00, maybe $11.00/hour, they're there every day, some of them have been on the job as long as you've been working in to this building, most have families which they must house, clothe, feed, educate, keep healthy; they pay taxes to the IRS via their biweekly checks; at the end of the year depending on their family size and other circumstances getting the earned income credit, the child care credit,they get refunded back some portion of Federal taxes paid. Theyhave to pay use taxes, utility taxes, maybe real estate taxes, gasoline taxes, cigarette taxes, sales taxes, etc.
Then you proceed out the door to get some lunch. You go to McDonald's for a sandwich. You encounter the order taker, the cook, the burger wrapper, the floor cleaner, the tables cleaner, etc.; all minimum wage and/or low wage employees, with the same obligations and tax liabilities as the other workers you met on the way to lunch.
Some 30% of that 47% that Romney so cavalierly throws under the bus are hardworking Americans like these security personnel and McDonald's workers, without complaint doing jobs that are useful to whatever degree to providing goods and services to the rest of us. They're not shiftless parasites. They don't make the $200,000 to $250,000 fantasized by the hapless Romney as middle class income. Yet they work every day. Their children, not Romney's five sons, are over in Iraq, Afghanistan fighting to keep our country and the world safe from terrorists.
And whatever monies these people make, they spend it--in their communities with small business people, circulating money, buying the goods and services they need to support their families, making the providers of these goods and services wealthier, stabilizing their communities, enhancing the future prospects of their children.
These people deserve to demonized and thrown under the bus by a major American political party?
Romney feels in his heart (off the cuff) that the lowest earning half of Americans are implacably hostile parasites.
I hope Chait is beginning to fuse this story to other examples of Romney's contempt for workers in this fundraising speech, especially the Bain Chinese investment Global Tech Appliances in China. Romney mentioned touring the company and there are documents proving Global Tech to be a Bain investment in 1998.
Rachel Maddow was the only coverage I saw on Global Tech last night and she sounded apologetic for accusations against Romney for supporting a locked labor camp, stating that the barbed wire, locked gaits, and armed guard towers were in place to keep out others who wanted to work. I hope she was being snarky. Locked gates may keep people(women) out but it also keeps them inside. The same for barbed wire fencing. Armed guards in towers can shoot both ways. Could we see some pictures of this work camp.
The way Chait makes his comment implies that the lowest earning half of Americans are implacably hostile parasites who need to be installed into work camps.
Romney made a comment at his RNC speech to this effect "so you lost your high paying job. so you work two jobs at lower wages, that's American......." His fascist thuggery is becoming very clear.
Yep! I used to think that Romney was a spectacularly inept candidate who was prone to inartfully blurt out talking points that his pollsters had determined would resonate with the Republicant/Teabagging base. But now since he's said the same things in different ways to different audiences, I'm more and more inclined to think he really belives this stuff. After all, if you read a variety of comments/postings on various sites, you continually run across the Republicant/Teabagger sentinments (a) that no one is working but them; (b) that the evil Federal government is giving their tax dollars to undeserving, lazy, good-for-nothing nonworking Amerians; (c) that these shiftless, nonworking and therefore undeserving folks are black and brown, the others, very unlike themselves; and (d) this is the group that has taken over the government, meaning government serves this group and not themselves, therefore government has to be wrested from their control.
This kind of stuff resonates with the base; but after so many reiterations by Romney, I think he truly believes this stuff himself.
The role of the President is to "worry about" and care about ALL of the people and not to exclude 47%. When Romney said, "[M]y job is not to worry about those people," I cringed and became afraid. I've never actually been afraid of a President before (I'm 70 now) but, even before the election I feel afraid of Romney (and Ryan). I worked hard all my working life and I paid lots of taxes but now I'm "dependent" on Social Security and Medicare so I guess I'm one of the 47% that Romney doesn't and won't "worry" about me (or care for me?). That makes me afraid. Dangerous people worry me.
We do wonder, however, who took the video? His/her motives? Engaged politically? Affiliated with Dems, Repubs? Did money change hands? Why was it floating around since May and just now picked up by media? Videographer's relationship to Romney, Romney campaign? Did the person try to contact the Obama campaign? If so, what was the response of the Obama team?
Let's hope this thing does not in any way blow back into the faces of those people who are now chortling with glee over Romney's plight!
I do not chortle, sir (or ma'am)!! However, I will admit to a hearty guffaw at Mr. Romney's expense when this story came out last night.
Why does it matter who took the video? It was Mitt Romney saying those things (he hasn't denied it), so I'm not sure how it could "blow back" on anyone.
Apparently, the video was shot at a private home. Could have been a guest who paid big money to be there, but it also could have been one of "the help." A caterer, waiter, dishwasher, etc. with a smart phone-- and a conscience.
Not only will bishop Mitt Romney nuke Iran, but also, since BLACKS are consdered less than human to his religious view, every other country beside the black african nations on the planet that dont comply to his foreign policy.
B. Joseph, I hesitate to ascribe such drastic action to Romney. I agree that pushed by the Neocons and his friend Netanyahu that Romney would probably green light war with Iran. But I think the African nations, just like people of African descent in this country or even people of color from Mexico or whereever, just won't be a part of his purview, not on his radar.
am i the only one that remembered that romney's parents were on welfare?
Source?
See Christine Jolly below:
From NBC News with Brian Williams aired September 9, 2012. This content comes from Closed Captioning that was broadcast along with this program.
#42
If Mitt doesn't care about us before the election, he certainly won't care about us after the election.
Romney was talking about me...a diehard Obama supporter! I own a business, employ 200 people, pay my taxes and am a woman, mother, grandmother! Vote for Obama...he'll take us forward! The Media missed the point...he wasn't talking only about the poor and elderly...but everyone who backs Obama...including people like me!
Yes! But primarily about the Republicant/Teabagger base's bogeyman, those Americans who produce nothing and get everything, who feel entitled but are irresponsible, who don't take care of themselves but want the government to take care of them. I remember early in the political season, during the primary I think, Romney articulated a version of this sentiment when he said that he doesn't worry about the poor because they've got a safety net. I forget which set of Americans he said he would worry about. I dimly remember it was the "job creators," the "taxpayers."
From NBC News with Brian Williams aired September 9, 2012. This content comes from Closed Captioning that was broadcast along with this program.
Thanks for looking this up. Interesting information.
Per Chris Rock ...
Chris Rock: George Bush has @!$%#ed up so bad, he made it hard for a white man to run for president! People are like "give me a black man, a white woman, a giraffe, a zebra... anything but another white man! That last one @!$%#ed up my roof!"
Romney is just another rich, white, man who proves everyday he is unfit to be President...he does not need the next 4 or 8 years to prove it.
"Oaky" wait now, this country ISN'T about guns and religion. What country am I in?!
This is a bait and switch attempt at the very zenith of feeble and mentally unstable..
People seem to be missing the larger significance of this. Romney writes off 47% of the voters because he can't entice them to vote for him with a tax cut. That's all he (and most other politicians) has to offer the electorate. Can we please restore sanity to the financing of government? We are getting crushed by the national debt, and this is the reason why.
Thank you for finally pointing this unbelievably obvious point out! I got really t'd off at Joe Scarborough for trying to compare Romney's 'hidden video' that really show us all who Romney really is, to Obama's 'secret video' that in no way denigrated anyone! I wrote back to Morning Joe with this "You made the comparison regarding the Obama gaffe and newest leaked video of Romney making some incredibly self-righteous, arrogant and elitist remarks to fellow wealthy elitists about all of those who support Obama. So, I found the video of Obama's supposed gaffe. Excuse me, but if you listen to what he says, and do not read any of your personal bias into it, you can see he did not insult anyone. He was making an observation regarding people from small towns whose lives have not improved in a decade or more! He said they were holding onto anything that they did have some control over like their guns or their religion [for example] which is not insulting those people! Dammit, Joe, you are an intelligent man who should not be making those kinds of comparisons when they are just not factually true!" The only similarity is that they were 'secret videos'. Obama and Romney could not be more polar opposites if they tried.
In his book, "Everyone Communicates, Few Connect", John Maxwell describes positional leaders who fail to connect with individuals, groups and audiences. Maxwell describes leadership as being the same as influence. And influence requires that leaders seek common ground. Maxwell e describes barriers to finding common ground:
1, Assumptions " I already know what others know, feel, and want."
2. Arrogance "I don't need to know what others know, feel or want."
3. Indifference "I don't care to know what others know, feel or want."
4. Control "I don't want others to know what I know, feel, want or think."
Which candidate for POTUS most often demonstrates these attitudes and behaviors?