The GOP "REDISTRIBUTED" the wealth to the 1% in the past 32 years since Reagan.

Time for some econ 101. Nobody redistributed anything. There is no demi-God handing out income to the deserving. Everyone contributes to the national income. What you mean to say is that the 1% contributed more and more in the past 32 years to the national income.

Secondly, people make what they make because they bid against each other not because some one is being mean.

Your homework is to find out why a burger flipper can make $15/hr with medical in North Dakota, but nowhere else (so far as I know). Questions?

Gashopper, you confuse ideology with reality.

So, now we move onto Historical Economics, 203. "Redistribution" is what a society relies upon for various purposes such as roads, bridges, and anything that a centralized economy can rely upon through a tax based system. Centralized Governments rely upon this Taxation as a means through which redistribution of wealth can have a more effective manner in which to allow the labor force to increase, thereby increasing the amount pf people paying into that same redistribution. This is known as Redistribution Cycling. Every major government that utilizes Capitalism in any meaningful sense must allow for some redistribution of wealth for the goals of maintaining the infrastructure, security, and general welfare of its society. The United States is no different in that respect.

National Income disparagement is usually caused when one extreme side of the economic classes are unbalanced. Usually, but not always, this is due to a lack of the same Redistribution of Wealth through taxes and other means. This often leads to a society in which those that are unemployed or underemployed grow in greater numbers. This creates a disparagement in income, or in other words makes the working class citizens income degrade. To counter this negative effect the centralized government must use the principles of Redistribution of Wealth in order to help bring a balance back to the system. Without that balance, Recessions, Depressions, and other negative economic calamities ensue.

Your homework: What aspects of Austrian Economics is bad for a society, and why does the economic theories of Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek help to negatively affect the Income Disparagement?

Do not scratch hemorrhoid.

Do not address hemorrhoid by name.

The salaries being paid in N Dak are based on the discovery of oil and lack of people wanting to live there! Plain and simple. They are using those salaries to lure people to the state. Problem with that is, the economy is based on oil, for now. Oil is finite, when they succeed in depleting the resource, how will they continue to pay at those levels? Or, the robber barons (bain, etc) will find a way to 'extract' the money, saddle the industry and/or state with debt, take off with the proceeds and money in the benefit packages.

My son worked for the minimun wage($5.25) years back at our local KFC while on the other side of the state in the metro Detroit area the fast food places advertised help wanted with a starting wage of $8.25. Why, because of supply and demand. More customers means more employees and more pay for those employees until management decides to keep an even larger percentage for themselves then all the employees get screwed.

The salaries being paid in N Dak are based on the discovery of oil and lack of people wanting to live there! Plain and simple. They are using those salaries to lure people to the state. Problem with that is, the economy is based on oil, for now. Oil is finite, when they succeed in depleting the resource, how will they continue to pay at those levels?

Pretty much what happened to Southern Europe. The North had money, the South had something the North wanted: a nice climate. The North paid to have people in the South build houses, resort hotels, etc. This caused wages in the South to rise, which drove higher prices for everything (including housing) to rise.

Then the boom ended, and the flood of money and jobs with it. People in the South were now unemployed, but they still had debts (housing, notably) that could only be paid for at the previous wage rates.

You're right, the oil boom won't last forever -- and when it ends, there's going to be a doozy of a hangover in the Northern Plains States.

shooter, LOL where did the energy of man power come from? that 1%? that sounds communist as hell.

manpower is the human economy's number one largest source of energy. its like gas in a car. its the most expensive part of the entire equation. we did alllll the work. one guy had an idea. good for him. history shows, that everybody has ideas, and if someone doesnt come up with it there is somebosy else not too far off waiting to fill in the info gap. but americans refuse to be treated like gasoline. we arent a part of some ceo's equation. we are the reason he is ceo in the first place. we are the reason the company exists in the first place. and if we cant live, neither can he. does that make sense?

it would be like saying Kim Jong Il did all the work. which is why he was the rightful leader of N Korea.

bo, exactly!!! thank you!

D.C. im not completely up on the europe situation... but all of these problems seemed to come out of the woodwwork after europe became the E.U. allowing foreign investments and land ownership and currency averaging.

i could be wrong.

I’d like to encourage more trollery on left wing sites. Specifically pushback on common memes such as identified by Jonah Goldberg as unchallenged cliches. It can actually work, and it can actually change the course of debate.

For instance, I always challenge “the rich take too much of the pie” meme. There is no pie, no one decides who gets what, and the “pie” is a measure of contributions to a total. Ergo the rich don’t take they contribute. It’s been gratifyingly effective.

Try it you’ll like it. Don’t curse and keep the personal insults to a bare minimum, don’t allow moving goal posts or distractions. Ignore trollish responders, and be four times more civil. They hate that.

http://moelane.com/2012/06/09/troll-hunting-101/

keep on fappin', shooter

Robert - I do not. The whole 'rich people take too large a slice of the pie' meme is just emotional manipulation. The only pie is a piechart showing who contributed what to the national income. Feel free to ask questions.

Lois - apparently you haven't heard that we have more oil than Saudi Arabia. More importantly it's a natural resource other nations want to buy. Contrary to Obama's opinion we are not so rich we can turn down job making industry.

D.Johnson - Manpower is always available, however it doesn't do anyone any good - until someone with an idea and the money to pursue it - arrives needing help. You can see this dynamic everyday in front of the Home Depot.

Apropros of the notion of "takers" and "makers" there is an ancient story, known as the Fable of Menenius Agrippa (repeated by Cicero, Shakespeare, and others).

It is an allegory of the Body Politic, in which the other parts of the Body complained that Belly was just lying around, expecting to be fed.

So, driven by this resentment, Hands decided not to provide food, Mouth not to accept anything brought to it, etc. And when Belly began to churn and grumble, they did nothing. Even when Belly began to ache, they remained steadfast in their resolve to starve Belly into submission. After all, what had Belly done to deserve food provided by others?

But then Hands grew weak; Mouth grew dry; Legs could hardly move. Only then did they realize that, in denying Belly, they had not considered the good of the whole Body.

United we stand, divided we fail .

No, Disgusted... CAUTERIZE HEMORRHOID!

shooter..... manpower is always available..... in china. in indonesia. why do they need to go outside of the country? because we wont work for them for those kind of wages. we will work for someone else with an idea. so your reasoning, again, is moot..... there has always been someone with an idea ready and raring to go. we have tons right now waiting for the opportunity to compete. too bad there is no competition anymore. look at the internet revolution in the last 10 years. produced several billionairs and tons of millionairs. why, because the market was wiiiiide open. so the human initiative is there and always has been. the fact that there isnt much in other markets is not a correlation to human desire to inovate or create. its a correlation to monopoly. and changes in regulation and laws.

Innocuous? Racist? Wow, you have it bad.

Redistribution is a code word. To you presumably, it's the taking of other people's property for a "fair" outcome. Or in other words you're better, smarter, or morally more upright, than the people who make lots of money.

To conservatives, that's also a description of every dictator who ever lived. Castro and Chavez immediately come to mind.

Which reminds me, how is Obama's brother that lives in the hut doing? I understand Dinesh D'Souza had to help him out with a medical bill, because Obama was too busy for family.

Do not scratch.

Do not scratch.

Do not scratch.

Do not scratch.

Hey ! It worked on those darn Gauls !

The romney's of the world whine about redistribution. Well, what do you call saddling a company with debt for the sole purpose of taking it to bankruptcy and transferring the assets to yourselves? It's only redistribution when others do it, but your just rewards when you do? BTW, redistribution has been in this economy for generations. How do you think paved roads are paid for, police departments, fire departments?

Ahh Blankman, ready with those FAUX talking points as always. Redistribution is what has already happened over the last 30+ years; with each re-write of the tax code that allows the corporate and wealthy to hammer out "deductions" so that they pay less money to US. These tax cuts have been born on the backs of everyone else. Your confusion and conflation regarding taxes (& what they're used for) and communism/dictatorships shows that active imagination at work, but in the real world "redistribution" has enabled the rich and corporate to suck on the teet of government even as they decry about the "least of these" that really need some extra assistance.

Your defense of this same system reveals your willful blindness to the facts. I can only surmise that your defense of the GOP whose policies are hurting working Americans is due to 1) you are one of the 1%, 2) you hope to be one of the 1% because you're chasing your dream, 3) you're so livid that there is a black man as POTUS - that you're willing to vote for anyone other than him, no matter how much it tears this nation apart.

Yes the same tax codes that have given some families the ability to get back all they have withheld in federal income tax through legal deductions. Thanks to support for those changes by the Republicans whose candidate is not maligning them as lazy and irresponsible, even though they have avoided paying income tax in a legal manner just as Mittens has done. And I suppose his idea of fixing the tax code will be to take away the deductions used by the middle class while getting rid of the tax on capital gains altogether.

"Redistribution is a code word. To you presumably, it's the taking of other people's property for a "fair" outcome. Or in other words you're better, smarter, or morally more upright, than the people who make lots of money."

Uhh, no. We have these people, elected representatives, who we choose, who decide where our tax money goes. You may not agree with every spending decision - I know I don't. But I don't get a whole victimhood "They're stealing from me" complex about it. You don't like it? Write your rep, but projecting a bunch of nonsense and whining about it here won't do you a lot of good.

"To conservatives, that's also a description of every dictator who ever lived. Castro and Chavez immediately come to mind."

Right. Because poor people fare so well under dictators. That's why all those people float over to FL from Cuba in little boats - To tell us how great it is.

Romneys father was the head of a car manufacturing plant which is how he made his millions, yeah? soooo, did he build all of those cars? did he design a single car? did he build the plant? did he set up the power lines or the water pipes. did he maintain the building? did he educate the workers of the plant? no, shooter. he did none of those things. NONE OF THOSE THINGS....... and Obamas fathers side of the familly was never a part of his life. he saw his dad twice his entire life. how come you didnt help your third cousin once removed who lives in poland with his homework that one day he had to study for a math test? i mean, youre related to him are you not? facepalm. go watch another creepfest documentary that has 0 to do with the real world and then believe every word of it.

I'd like to encourage more trollery on left wing sites. Specifically pushback on common memes such as identified by Jonah Goldberg as unchallenged cliches. It can actually work, and it can actually change the course of debate.

For instance, I always challenge "the rich take too much of the pie" meme. There is no pie, no one decides who gets what, and the "pie" is a measure of contributions to a total. Ergo the rich don't take they contribute. It's been gratifyingly effective.

Try it you'll like it. Don't curse and keep the personal insults to a bare minimum, don't allow moving goal posts or distractions. Ignore trollish responders, and be four times more civil. They hate that.

http://moelane.com/2012/06/09/troll-hunting-101/

keep on fappin', shooter

Lois, the borrowed money came from bankers and rich investors, am I to believe you'd shed a tear for them? Meanwhile the companies bought by Bain were failing, and their lives extended. Some companies failed. Most do. Deal with it.

Zero, tax cuts are not borne on the back of anyone. Someone else getting a tax cut won't affect your life in the slightest. Lastly I'd be happy if Herman Cain were President. Go be a racist somewhere else.

D.Johnson Do you think all those people self organized, worked without pay, or voted what colors this years model would sport. No they didn't. It's obvious you have no idea how business works, but continue to embarrass yourself if you like.

if those workers were to strike... your boys father would have created 0 product. because they do all of the work. or alteast as much as romney sr did. if there were 100 employees including romney, then romney did 1% of the work. but there were alot more. so he actually did much less work in the grand scheme. so why should a ceo make a million times more than the people who built the company and are 99.99999% responsible for its success or exiistance? and "a million times more" is not an exageration.

well.. it is an exageration. but barely.

lol, chavez? haha chavez was elected buddy. and his people love him. and he didnt redistribute the wealth of his country. he kicked out american private interests that were raiding his countries resources and assasinating opposition. chavez himself was almost assasinated by these people. wow. you sure do know what youre talking about, buddy.

they wouldnt tell you those things on fox news though. theyll just tell you he is a nazis dictator bent on making his country communist... which he has never attempted to do. not by any exagerated account. damn, shooter. what a bozo. seriously.

This illustrates that capitalism itself is a mechanism to redistribute wealth. Any amount of money one pays for a product in excess of the cost to get that product to the consumer - aka profit - is a redistribution of wealth. If nothing else, taxes that support social programs to help the poor, sick, and elderly are merely a small counterbalance to that upward redistribution.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not against capitalism. Just pointing out this aspect of it.

By the way, has anyone else here been to Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art in Rogers, AR? It's Alice Walton's baby, and it is amazing, even for someone who normally thinks of art museums as borrrr-ing.

Of course I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart, and would have preferred Alice spent that billion or so dollars paying better wages, but I'll give her credit for not charging admission to see this collection - some of the pieces are worth tens of millions apiece and you can get right up to them.

KJ, no profit, no taxes. If you were smart you'd be rooting for more profit. Sadly...

Again, Airball 042 misses the point. And apparently thinks his paychecks are profit. Sadly indeed.

This is hemorrhoidal tissue you're dealing with. It only surfaces on areas which it thinks are asswholes. Do not scratch your redistribution area. Let your redistribution area's itch go away and the hemorrhoid will go away.

You're right, DWIA. It just takes a little will power, but I can avoid scratching that itch. It doesn't do any good to anyway.

KJ, just don't touch those pieces of art at crystal bridges, or you'll be shown the way out of the museun QUICKLY!

At least Buffet and Gates are doing more with their fortunes then buying car elevators and multiple homes all over the country. Except for his tithe to the Mormon Church I have not seen any figures on Mittens philanthropy.

Disgusted: don't diss hemorrhoids. They serve a necessary function under undesirable conditions.

You are close, though.

Oh, but it feels so goooood when I scratch......

makes your stomach turn. think of all those employees making minimum wage so that those handfull of people can make billions. remember what life was like before walmart? i do. i remember what it was like before all of those conglomerate chains took over... it was alot better. quality of life was waaaaay better. a person could be a mechanic and support a familly. now, a mechanic cant even support himself.

heres a new word to counter money redistribution... money syphoning! which is what has effectively happened. Money Syphoning. and it will keep happening unless we localize our businesses again. our farming. our manufacturing. everything. a perfect well oiled and healthy economy should be localized. thats just true. keep the money in the pockets of the community. sure, not everything can be localized. but most things can and should.... also, globalization is SUCH AN ENERGY DRAIN. so much energyy waste due to globalization. products being shipped here there and everywhere, packaged and wrapped up and shipped again.

I'd like to encourage more trollery on left wing sites. Specifically pushback on common memes such as identified by Jonah Goldberg as unchallenged cliches. It can actually work, and it can actually change the course of debate.

For instance, I always challenge "the rich take too much of the pie" meme. There is no pie, no one decides who gets what, and the "pie" is a measure of contributions to a total. Ergo the rich don't take they contribute. It's been gratifyingly effective.

Try it you'll like it. Don't curse and keep the personal insults to a bare minimum, don't allow moving goal posts or distractions. Ignore trollish responders, and be four times more civil. They hate that.

http://moelane.com/2012/06/09/troll-hunting-101/

keep on fappin', shooter

kj paychecks are profits. It is how much you sold your labor for minus taxes. Duh.

D.Johnson People are paid what they are paid because of competition between them. Walmart jobs always have long lines of applicants knowing what the job pays

I have to ask, where did you get your information about economies work?

walmart... people only accept that pay because there is no competition. walmart has successfully shut down any and all competition. if you know ecenomics you should atleast know that. and though i think you do, i think you purposefully choose to ignore that blaring fact to support your argument. because that fact completely turns your argument into something nobody wants to go along with. they have put farmers out of business, mechanics out of business, electronics stores out of business, toy stores out of business, hardware stores out of business, clothing stores out of business, constume stores candy stores grocery stores out of business, check cashers out of business, video stores out of business. all conglomerate chains have done this. kramer tire, advanced auto, blockbuster video, 7-11, toys r us, best buy, barnes and noble, tgi fridays, bennigans, ruby tuesday, mcdonalds, burger king, radio shack, regal cinemas, amc cinemas, gamestop, on and on and on and on... all of this money leaves the local economy and goes somewhere else whilst only offering minimum wage jobs for 80% of their workforce and pittiful benefits packages if they offer any at all. all of the resourses that provide these stores with goods opperate under wraps and write their own rules on standards and regulations, especially after lobbying has laid waste to our regulations put in place by honest business men seeking fair practice and competition standards. people who have fought hard to protect their livelihood. farmers get paid less than the cost to maintain their farm to the point that our farmers have all been bought out and that land is now owned by said conglomerates. which is what they mean when they say 1% ownes half of the countries resources. all of our manufacturing jobs were shipped over seas, so bye bye to that also. which put an even larger strain on famillies... and all in the wake of the online revolution when other goods can be ordered over the internet. competition is standard... and there is none anymore. monopoly has taken over despite the fact that we the people chose to OUTLAW it. how? loopholes. conglomeration is legal. as long as their are several companies working together that sell different product then it is ok. thats how they did it. if you are so keen on following ecenomics, then this should be real easy for you to understand. now try following the law and history. try looking at what it used to be like and then look back at the dismal picture before you and challenge yourself to still stand up for g.o.p. definition of fair ecenomics. it doesnt exist.

economics

......staples has put supply stores out of business. sports authority has put sports apparel stores out of business. these are the companies romney is oh so proud to have helped start. its what he is all about.... the problem in the first place.

and here iis the kicker question, shooter... please feel free to answer yes or no.... do you think, if these companies could get away with paying us 30 cents an hour that they woulnt try it? do you think they would care if we lived 12 in a room bunkbeds stacked 3 high? i mean, they let this happen in indonesia. they let it happen in china. they let it happen all over the world. do you think they wouldnt cut costs to maximise profits to such an extreme that we were all rats living off of their leftovers? do you think that is even a question they ask themselves? so.... do you think we should allow them to keep going and going and going and going until this becomes a reality?...... do you think they will grow a heart and choose to pay us fairly? i mean, trends tell another story all together... but just wondering, do you thiink they will realise the error of their ways and hook their people up? or do you think they will show their appreciation by dismantling ss and medicare and education and roads and bridges and planned parenthood and unemployment?

but they are realizing real quick that are their biggest customers... so now that they are taking a hit as a result of their actions they need someone to blame... the lazy jobless sons of b's that wont earn a dime. obama and his stimulous. somebody has to be responsible, and it cant be them. whatch the market.... when you start to feel like you arent being advertised to as much anymore. when you start to see the chinese walking around with so much nike ipod coke mcdonalds... youll see who they favor as a consumer. and who they wouldnt waste their money on. and if romney gets into office, be prepared to see alot of manufacturing jobs that pay nothing... if you see anyy jobs at all. the entire system is to maximise wealth and profit and cut cost... and you are cost and profit. pray a day never comes when you cease to be profit.

D Johnson - if all the workers strike, they lose their paycheck, and if the plant gets shut down, they lose their job. More likely manufacturers will start moving facilities out of state and out of the country. Your attitude is why. Oh well.

You can't go back in time, you can't shut down the internet, you can't make China go away. The days of turning a wrench with a HS education are gone forever. The only constant is change and it will run you over if you don't see it coming.

...and a new one opens up. the heart of competition. those workers were not lining up outside... they lived there. so if they didnt want to work for romney, he would have been sht out of luck. and in those days people didnt by japanese cars. and made in china would have been a death sentence.,,

..."the days of turning a wrench with a HS education are over"...? what does that mean? that that is not a worthy profession to you. the will always be a need for auto mechanics. demand is HIGH! so, why cant they support a familly. why cant my brother support himself as he works 60 hour weeks at kramer when my grandmother supported our entire familly doing the same job? demand hasnt gone down. its gone up. you are insane man. you havent a clue.

the thing about the plant closing is that the plant itself still sits there waiting to be used. the machinery still sits there. the people still sit there waitng to work. the city infrastructure still stands supporting local activity... the only thing that changes is ownership. what a kook.

Airball - MBA, U. of Iowa Tippie School of Business. With honors, in Finance.

Since I'm sure that doesn't match up with your C- in high school home ec class, please explain to us just how a paycheck is profit. No, never mind. Profit is something you can put away and not have to use for anything else if you don't want to. You exchanged x amount of time for the money; time you could have spent doing something else. From that paycheck you must pay for housing, food, transportation, fuel, utilities, insurance, clothing, education (well not you), and a hundred other things for yourself and probably a spouse and maybe (God forbid) children.

What's left of your paycheck after all that? A hundred bucks? Ten? Nothing? That would be your profit, dumba$$.

and paychecks arent profit, shooter. they are considered "overhead".

I almost feel sorry for Willard , he looks so strident , almost like he is pleading ...see see...look at this !

He sounds like someone who has been told to "Go out there and be tough"

He just can't look serious. you can see his heart is not in it

This is the persona he will probably bring to the debates because this is what his handlers are telling him .

He will fail.

By the way, every tax ever levied in the history of the world has involved a redistribution of wealth.

Not true. Taxes that produce something everyone can use is not redistribution. Taxes that go to certain groups and no other is redistribution.

So we all kick in some tax money to build a road that all of us can use. Manny doesn't make enough money to pay income taxes, but he still gets to use the road. Joe is middle class and kicks in his share. Biff is wealthy and pays more in taxes than the other two, but doesn't have a greater right to use the road than the other two.

How is that NOT a redistribution of Biff's wealth, Airball042?

Shooter242,

It appears that you should begin to understand the meaning of redistribution of wealth. It actually helps people through infrastructure and other projects which helps the business class in that when people have jobs, they help the economy because it creates a bigger demand line, which helps create more jobs. Its called Centralized Capitalism, and we live with it each and every day. Redistribution is a good thing, most of the time, when taxes are used in the right manner instead of making more security agencies that are unneeded, unnecessary, redundant, or plain useless, like the DEA, ATF, DHS, and others.

C'mon folks. Wise up.

Just because you can see what your money's being spent on, just because you may be able to access the things your money's being spent on, that doesn't mean it's not a redistribution of wealth. That's what taxes are...

I'd explain it more but it would cause some serious snail trail on shooter's trouser snake.

I'd like to encourage more trollery on left wing sites. Specifically pushback on common memes such as identified by Jonah Goldberg as unchallenged cliches. It can actually work, and it can actually change the course of debate.

For instance, I always challenge "the rich take too much of the pie" meme. There is no pie, no one decides who gets what, and the "pie" is a measure of contributions to a total. Ergo the rich don't take they contribute. It's been gratifyingly effective.

Try it you'll like it. Don't curse and keep the personal insults to a bare minimum, don't allow moving goal posts or distractions. Ignore trollish responders, and be four times more civil. They hate that.

http://moelane.com/2012/06/09/troll-hunting-101/

keep on fappin', shooter

KJ... Biff, if he owns a company of some sort actually makes more use of said road than any one person. Employees, distribution trucks, customers. so his money isnt wasted because he himself only drives one car.

D.Johnson - perhaps, but if Biff works for Bain Capital, just pushin' numbers through a computer, there are no trucks, customers, and very few employees using that road (which by the way they kicked in bucks for too). It's just Biff's Bentley, fresh off a trip up on the elevator from the lower garage.

And let's not kid ourselves; if that road is anywhere near Manny's home, Biff doesn't even know it exists.

yep... lets say we have a mc'donalds and a wack'arnolds....now wack'arnolds is a local fast food restaurant..... you give them your money for a value meal and that money goes to the successful owner.... who lives up the road. he goes to another local restaraunt to eat. takes his familly. he pays a local landscaper to mow his lawn. he pays local contractors to build his pool house. he buys his product from local farmers. the bulk of mcdonalds profits however immediately leaves your state. maybe it will return. maybe. but its popularity is syphoning money out of your community.

KJ i agree with your entire statement... i was just countering an argument some reps would tag stating, why should one man pay a larger percentage of taxes if he himself doesnt get the benefit. why should he pay more for roads and bridges if he drives one car? well, thats the questioning i was answering... even though you werent saying it directly.... i just didnt want shooter to start fap fap fappinig again. haha

Thanks DJ. I could tell you weren't really disagreeing, and I had that "disparity in taxes" thought too as I was writing my bit.

And anything we can do to keep Shooter quiet or pi$$ him off is a very good thing. I try to ignore but once in a while his stupidity is just too much fun to point out. Appreciate the backup.

hahaha

Sorry Mugsy but having a military to protect the country isn't redistribution. They protect everybody not just some people.

wrong again, troll242. The gigantic funds to pay for the military still have to come from somewhere, no matter what you call them. That was Mugsy's question.

Shooter242,

The entire defense "industry" is a redistribution. The companies that have government contracts want the defense department funds to keep rolling in so their overpriced contracts don't get cut.

This is not speculation on my part. I work in manufacturing and I have personally spoke to the CEO's of these companies. They rub elbows with Generals, trade favors (or "barter" as they put it), and denigrate any proposal to reduce defense spending.

So defense speding takes taxes from everyone, and redistributes it to military salaries and defense contractors. The contractor's CEO gets rich, the workers make either enough to live on or not. Either way, we take a little from all and give most of it to a few. The good ol' boys get more than the average worker. Is this redistribution?

I was also in the military when 9/11 happened. There was too much spending before the attacks... and way too much after. There was plenty of waste to cut. I had a friend of mine (also in military) joke that the military was welfare desguised. There are a lot of soldiers and airmen that don't deserve their pay. Not all... not all by any means. But there were a ton of support personnel that never saw a battlefield.

The contractors to the DOD also make a ton of money. There is a lot of good ol' boy work. They usually have to be in the US, which is good for several reasons. But it also ensures that world competition is not a problem. Defense spending is a great way to spur the economy. Let's just be honest and call all the defense spending a stimulus like it should be called. Would Republicans support it if we labeled it properly?

yo shooter. i always see you on here using some talking point that is absolutely moot. could you please tell me what the military budget numbers are.... wait, no need, ill tell you insted. ill rround it to the nearest 100, billion to make it easy for you. america 700billion. china, who is number 2 in the world, 100billion. all other countries on the planet MUCH LOWER THAN CHINA. so, please, again, tell us how our defence budget needs to be increased while gutting education and social programs. PLEASE MOFO!!! give us links and numbers. tell us how you havent been completely fooled by one misinformed propoganda ploy after another after another to the point where you dont know what is real and what isnt. you just know you hate our president. seriously man. you have such disdain in your voice and i feel your pain. but we arent the ones you are mad at. everything you say, if you were to check the facts youd realise you are mad at the people you are supporting. haha and i have been fact checking yo azz for half a year.

and one more important thing to note... military contractor does NOT mean american company. BE CLEAR on that. Halliburton was NOT an american company until they needed to be for publicity purposes. and military men and women get paid chump change considering the budget of defence. CHUMP CHANGE. its just an excuse to take tax money and give it to companies. so is the medicare voucher set up. yet another way to take money from our tax coffers and give it to a private company. that is all the republicans have been doing since the beginning of the century. why do people buy into it? i have no idea. its all written there in black and white. our teachers are boycotting and still we dont see them. we dont hear them. why, because david koch has more money than the teachers union. so lets take away their collective bargaining rights so they have NO CHANCE at being heard over the oil tycoons of the world.

... oh, because defence budget means money to david koch. defence budget means money to oil. war with iran means new opportunities for oil. whiich is where cheney and halliburton come in. thats why teachers are now the enemy in favor of a larger defence budget. even though we arent planning on bein at war in 2 years?

or are we?

Taxes are redistribution.

Shooter knows this, but has to pretend he doesn't. Because if he doesn't make you mad, he doesn't get off.

I'd like to encourage more trollery on left wing sites. Specifically pushback on common memes such as identified by Jonah Goldberg as unchallenged cliches. It can actually work, and it can actually change the course of debate.

For instance, I always challenge "the rich take too much of the pie" meme. There is no pie, no one decides who gets what, and the "pie" is a measure of contributions to a total. Ergo the rich don't take they contribute. It's been gratifyingly effective.

Try it you'll like it. Don't curse and keep the personal insults to a bare minimum, don't allow moving goal posts or distractions. Ignore trollish responders, and be four times more civil. They hate that.

http://moelane.com/2012/06/09/troll-hunting-101/

keep on fappin', shooter

Oh brother. Does the military protect the entire country or just some people? It protects everybody. Everybody gets to use the road. Everybody does not get food stamps. Does that help?

our military budget could drop to 300 billion and our education budget could be raised to 400 billion and we would still be the safest country on the planet. thats what you dont get shooter. this whole fear of muslims and terrorist attacks, though having alot of truth, is and has been used as a red herring so that americans think the military is still too small. you could fit the entire worlds military budget into ours and STILL have room to move around in..... basically what im saying is... we spend more in military than the entire world combined. with billions and billions left over.

there is NO REASON ON EARTH our education system should be suffering. except the g.o.p. wont let obamas jobs bill pass.

It is what has made America what it is today.. Mormons know what it means to redistribute, they do it all the time amongst themselves. In small farming communities they trade their goods all the time, some raise chickens and some raise pigs, it is nationwide and it works.

"Redistribution" or "Redistribution of wealth" are code terms for communism, as in "Godless Communism," which is supposed to make you afraid of whatever they apply the term to, rather than think about issues. "Socialized Medicine" is supposed to conjure up images of uncaring Soviet-sponsored physicians botching surgeries with carpenter tools, so you never give serious thought to cost effectiveness or end based results.

If you listen to the recording of then state Sen. Obama, you just shrug and say "So?" It's not even "inelegant," it's just a plea for fairness. No explanation necessary.

i agree with you..... but more importantlyy... what is insurance? what is medicare ss obamacare unemployment? they are insurance. and what is insurance?... redistribution of wealth. that is how it is able to work. what is a safety net? insurance. the rest of the money is upkeep. imo... NONE OF OUR TAX DOLLARS should go to comapnies tax breaks. NONE EVER! in what crazy world was the tax system built so the people could pay to make life easier for mcdonalds??? huh??? i mean wtf. seriously? OFCOURSE OUR TAXES SHOULD GO TO OUR INFRASTUCTURE UPKEEP AND INSURANCE!!! WHAT ELSE COULD IT POSSIBLE GO TO WITHOUT SEEMING COMPLETELY BROKEN??

but more importantly your tax rate based on income and earnings represents how muchh energy and resource you controll and use. so if mcdonalds owns 10% of the corn in wherever, then they should indeed be liable for that tax percentage. because land ownership is not permanent. it can be used by other people for other things. it is the countries land. all of ours. the profit they make is the countries money... if it dissappeares from our country, how do we replace it? nothing short of liquidating mcdonalds holdings would reverse the potential damage to the economy... which is happening as we speak.

Yes Angel...you must be able to see through the fog of propaganda...sharing. Some of these people were never taught to share, or to even consider sharing...That is the new core belief of the GOP, and that will be their downfall.

We can only hope and vote!!

Methinks our GOP friends never got to the sharing lesson in Kindergarten...they seem stuck at the toddler rules level - i.e:

TODDLER’S RULES
1.1- If I want it, it's mine
2- If it's in my hand, it's mine
3- If I can take it away from
you, it's mine
4- If I had it a little while ago, it's mine
5- If it's mine, it must never appear
to be yours in any way
6- If we are building something together,
all the pieces are mine
7- If it just looks like mine, it's mine
8- If I think it's mine, it's mine
9- If I give it to you and change
my mind later, it's mine
10- Once it's mine it will never belong
to anyone else, no matter what

"Chaos on Bull@!$%# Mountain" -- a classic amongst classics! A Mona Lisa of satire...your serve Mr. Eastwood!

Mr Eastwood actually said "if sombody's dumb enough to ask me to go to a political convention and say something they're gonna have to take what the get." Guess there are some big dummies in the GOP, like we did not already know that.

Jon Stewart totally hit it out of the park, classic.

Also, excellent Rewrite segment on Lawrence O'Donnell's show last night.

How fantastic is it that we have such a knowlegeable and intelligent spokesman for our point of view! Cannot wait for the Stewart/O'Reilly throwdown!! Insight vs. "bloviation"...should be a wonderful evening!! LOL

Looks like they are finally getting called on their BS at long last though...as a Texas democrat I can only say "Thank GOD!" It's about time!!

I bet he's just banking on his home on Lake Winnepesauke being ocean front property in a few years....

Shooter's ball has gone flat...he/she needs to redistribute some hot air into it.

Or dare we mention the Russian Revolution? Willard will be so pleased with another mention of Russia!! Maybe Obama will offer him the Russian ambassadorship during his 2nd term as President!