In late August, Mitt Romney's chief pollster, asked about the campaign's welfare lie, said, "[W]e're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers." After watching last night, I guess he wasn't kidding.
What will be interesting to watch at this point is whether a meme starts to develop. Phase One of the post-debate analysis saw a consensus quickly coalesce: Romney won with relative ease. Perhaps Phase Two will consider how the Republican managed to do so well?
This is admittedly only a sampling, but this piece from New York's Jon Chait caught my eye:
Romney won the debate in no small part because he adopted a policy of simply lying about his policies. Probably the best way to understand Obama's listless performance is that he was prepared to debate the claims Romney has been making for the entire campaign, and Romney switched up and started making different and utterly bogus ones.
As did this one from Rolling Stone's Tim Dickinson:
Mitt Romney turned in a polished performance in last night's presidential debate – and revealed himself to be an accomplished and unapologetic liar. In an evening where he sought to slice and dice the president with statistics, Romney baldly misrepresented his own policy prescriptions, made up numbers to fit his attacks and buried clear contrasts with the president.
CNN's David Gergen, hardly a liberal, was thinking along the same lines as Chait, saying last night he thinks Obama was surprised that Romney was "flat out lying" during the debate. Plenty of others were thinking along the same lines.
Romney's critics should probably keep expectations low, but if this line of criticism starts to catch on, it could, in theory, step on the Republican's post-debate glow. In fact, the tactics that led to the win could even backfire, doing more harm than good.
As Jonathan Bernstein noted today, "Paul Ryan's convention speech wound up being covered mainly for its mendacity, and that became the story. It seems that there are at least as many factually challenged comments from Romney's debate performance as there were in Ryan's speech."
I'd just add that early this morning, there were signs the DNC and the Obama campaign wasn't sure which direction they'd go in, and initially seemed inclined to launch a "Romney was obnoxious and rude" tack. Seven hour later, the focus has shifted, and the president's allies are far more focused on Romney's dishonesty than his attitude.
It's a dynamic worth watching.
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A debate is when two people at opposition discuss and DEBATE.
How could President Obama discuss when Mittens agreed with him or denied his own platform?
It would have been wonderful if Obama said, ya know what? You're a F%$#%$# LIAR....and walked off the stage. But then that would not have been so presidential ((-:
Once again the only response dems have to a good republican performance is the word "liar" That's all they have. No record they want to talk about or defend. No new plans. No way to reduce the debt and should I go on? They just like to use the word liar and call names. There could be 1,000 posts and there would be no substance, just name calling. No way to convince people that your candidate deserves another 4 years.
Every dem I have heard says romney out did obama on the debate , there's another reality check for you ditto head
Jes you need to have your hearing "checked".
jess33, you do know, don't you that last night was a debate? The format required the two participants to reply to the questions provided by the moderator. During his replies Romney lied. He didn't "spin" or "exagerate", he lied. The postions adopted by Romney last night put him to the left of most Blue Dog Democr...
Whoa...you just might be correct. Perhaps Romney didn't lie last night. Maybe the lies are what he's told his "base". You know, in order to get the nomination?
Mitt Romney (D)!!! Whoda thunk it!
Heartened to hear I'm not alone in believing absolutely nothing that comes out of Romney's mouth. Without co-opting the President's ideas, and without lying, Romney would have nothing to say. We have not just a good president right now but a GREAT president. He has come to the fore fighting hard for those of us who have no say in Washington's political arena. He has reached out to those of us who want a president who cares about our future. He has ideas and a BIG VISION about what our country can do, where we can go, how we can get there. We do have a big choice to make, an important choice. I'm happy knowing I get to vote for Barack Obama, because I know that if he wins, he and Joe Biden and the Democratic party will be going to work on our behalf to move ALL OF US ahead.
Thank you Steve!
The President is very aware that the GOP/RNC "Speculator and Chief" is a pathological liar. The President is intelligent enough to understand that he is dealing with a very "Mentally Ill" individual. The President is very aware that the GOP/RNC "Romulian" loves to politically "Flip-Flopper" on all policy issues. The President is very clear that the GOP/RNC "Speculator and Chief" is menally "Bi-Polar," and has no memory of what he says or does. The GOP/RNC "Romulian" went out on the stage last night, and forgot what he has been spewing for the last Three Years. The President had to see this GOP/RNC "Mad Man" for himself. The President realized that he is dealing with a complete economic cheat, a poltical coward, and a very dangerous individual. The President watched very carefully of how big of a "Bonehead Bully" the GOP/RNC "Romulian" really is. First study your opponents speaking habits, and his mannerisms. Then let the "Political Prey" talk/lie himself into a corner. The President is going to take what he learned, and he is going to crush the GOP/RNC "Speculator and Chief."
My feeling is that Obama lost a battle in order to win the war.
Letting Mitt toss the far right under the bus and say whatever he thought people wanted to hear was like giving enough rope to hang him then watch as he tied the noose put it on and jumped.
Yes Mitt won tonight but I feel it will come back to bite him and the down ballots hard.
President: Governor Romney will paint the horse, green.
Romney: I will not paint the horse, green. I have never said that I will paint the horse, green!
P: For 18 months, you have stated that you will paint the horse, green.
R: My plan consists of 2 parts. One, to paint the horse, BLUE; while simutaneously, painting the horse, YELLOW. But I have never said that I will paint the horse, green!
ME: Well I guess that's a horse of a different color! Pay attention, Y'All!
I think there's a point that keeps getting missed as Romney and the Republicans complain about the cost of healthcare and people's pay. They're the private sector. The President can't say you need to give your people so much more or reduce salaries of the higher up. That's all private sector. It shows how broken the private sector can be and not follow the textbook idea of a free market. Healthcare is the same. The President doesn't tell insurance companies how to run their businesses or how to pay their people. It's the private market. Where is the competition that's supposed to happen? The only competition is the package that those on top get. It always has to be more and the one who meets that, get's the person.
I don’t know who to feel sorrier for, Barack Obama or the American public.
Mitt Romney is like some kind of freakish Frankenstein’s monster created by Steve Jobs as a parting joke.
Last night we witnessed the unveiling of the all new iPhoney 5. Let me take you for a moment through this product line’s evolution.
The iPhoney 1 debuted in 1994 as a candidate to replace Ted Kennedy as US Senator from Massachusetts.
The iPhoney 2 gained prominence in 2002 when it was elected Governor of Massachusetts.
The iPhoney 3 was a candidate for the Republican nomination for President in 2008 before being outsold by McCan’t reboot.
And, just prior to last night, we witnessed the dominance of the iPhoney 4 on its long march toward gaining the Republican nomination for President in 2012, eclipsing the McCan’t reboot with its Palin 1.0 add-ons.
At each stage following the iPhoney 1, subsequent models acquired new affectations (Affs) while shedding previous, outdated (i.e. inconvenient) ones. By the time the iPhoney 4 rolled out it was totally unrecognizable as what started out as the iPhoney 1.
That brings us to 9 pm October 3, 2012 and the unveiling of the iPhoney 5. Gone was the tax plan Aff, even though it was claimed to remain the same, but with different computational algorithms employing irrational numbers.
The Health Care Aff from the iPhoney 2 had returned, but it was genetically modified so that it could escape proof of parentage to the current Affordable Care Act.
A new mapping and global positioning Aff was viewed by knowledgeable insiders as defective, but the public accepted its ability to be simultaneously in multiple positions all at the same time.
These, as well as a number of other innovative Affs, known to insiders as the smoke and mirrors upgrade, confounded the competitor and its sales and technical support staffs leaving them dazed and disoriented, victimized as they were by a commitment to facts, logic and common sense.
As a result the new iPhoney 5 was lauded as a remarkable improvement by the preview audience whose willing suspension of disbelief was more accurately described as extreme gullibility.
Once again the creators of the iPhoney 5 have validated the venerable dictum of P.T. Barnum of how frequently a particular personality type is born.
LIAR! LIAR! LIAR!
People who are already covered by insurance do not have "pre-existing" conditions. They develop conditions while on insurance and are therefore covered conditions. Mitt Romney does not have a policy regarding "PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS". Get a clue!
Frustration because the President cannot show the news clips to prove Romney LIES!
Ask yourself this question: Come Nov-06, will any voter in the voting booth wonder "who again won the debate on Oct-03?" My answer is NO, they will not. Especially since in this debate, the only noteworthy thing is a surprisingly different debate style by either side (Romney - better, Obama - not so good).
But I am quite certain that by now, 98% of Americans already know what to expect from either party and either candidate.
Has any person on the planet besides me been sucker punched by someone you weren't expecting to get sucker punched from? What do you do? The human reaction is to freeze up and what is going through your mind is incredulity of what is happening.
Did any of you pundits see Romney walking away from his own policies, lying non-stop, contradicting himself on several occasions within the same debate? Well if you didn't see that coming, I doubt that anyone on Obama's campaign staff or Obama himself imagined that either.
Does MSNBC just want a horse race and that is why all the MSNBC pundits have thrown Obama under the bus? Advertising dollars mean more than integrity and truth?
Let me ask a question: Who do you think looked Presidential on that stage last night? And the follow up: "Who do you think acted more like a WWF wrestler for a match promo?
Obama looked like a President I would want to represent me to the rest of the world. Romney looked like a manic madman that had had too much coffee and been up for 2 days. That is not what I want to represent me to the world. Maybe you do and we can have a debate about that.
Exactly. How do you debate a liar that keeps repeating the lie no matter what you say or what proof you give him, but he keeps saying 'trust me' about anything he's saying?
No matter how many times it is said that the money taken from medicare isn't being taken out of benefits and is put back into medicare in drug benefits, the teapubs and Willard still say it is a cut in benefits to begin with. How do you debate lies to your face like that? You can't. And that's exactly what Willard is doing right to Obama's face.
Two things I heard from Willard tho, it seems he wants to eliminate the federal government and let states make all decisions. Kinda like Europe, eh? Each state will be their own country, but the money will be controlled by government.
The other thing is he supports welfare to big business. He said those subsidies actually go to small companies...what???? Like Haliburton?
I don't mean to shout, BUT, HOW DOES ONE DEBATE A LIAR? Frustration so bad steam is coming from my ears! Why do 'analysts" not get the glaring, humongous discrepancies of Mr. Romney? Why did they decide Mitt 'looked refreshed', 'well prepared' when all that came from him was a flip flop? Who was that guy? And why did analysts not drop their jaws in complete disbelief!
Thank you! And btw where does the host of the Actor's Studio, Lipton, get the idea that he is the all time authority on O'bama's debate strategy? GEEZ. People are behaving like they didn't get any action at the circus! C'mon guys-he's our President ! Have a little faith! You're booing the wrong guy! I happen to completely agree with Chait! Go up and read the whole article by Steve Benen-very enlightening. And look at John Sununu mouthing off again-it's just pitiful.
Perhaps E. Warren and other down-ticket candidates should thank Mitt for doing well; it was widely reported that if he performed poorly, donations and SuperPAC ads would be redirected to GOP senate and house candidates: now that he's back on top, that money stays safely in Romney's camp. I'd like to think that Obama did this deliberately; it would warm my heart to know that he took one for the team. Not likely, though - Obama's mind was more likely to be engaged with the Syrian-Turkish outbreak of hostilities last night than with election subterfuge.
Thank you Balthasar!!
PBS President Paula Kerger's yearly compensation is over $632,000. She's a 1 percenter. Occupy Sesame Street!
I wish Chris Matthews would calm down. I LOVE YOU CHRIS! But everybody needs to calm down-Al too!! Just think about it for a minute. Why would anybody actually believe the President would bring his WHOLE game to the first debate? It's 101. The President was specific and articulate and I believe simply refusing to acknowledge the river of lies coming out of Romney's mouth. I don't believe it was in any shape or form a win for Romney-in fact the President gave Romney just enough rope to hang himself on voucher care and social security and PBS! And O'bama kept the floor just long enough beyond his two minutes to turn Mitt into a whimpering pouty middle schooler-the only thing missing was his hand waving around in the air. (Anybody catch the shot from behind of Mitt stomping his foot? Why do you think they had the camera back there?) So I wouldn't call O'bama's behavior listless at all. I think he was absolutely right on. The Democrats were looking for the two of them to go at it like an episode of "RAW"-that's all. It was a let down-sure. I had the popcorn and the drinks going ready to rock and it didn't happen. But make NO mistake. It was certainly NOT a win for a candidate who's only real talent is the ability to lie without even thinking about it.
Fantastic post adrianeelise. You nailed it. I, too, think that President Obama was stepping back just to see what Romney would say. President Obama didn't have to do anything -- Romney was great at spewing out lie after lie after lie. It is true that it is difficult to debate someone who is a pathological liar. But President Obama was cool, calm and collected and I can't wait to see Joe Biden clean Paul Ryan's clock next week, and then Romney's clock in the next two debates.
Thank you babychop!
Silly Liberals....only you could call Mitt a liar with a straight face. Should we go down the line on Obama's story telling:
The list goes on and on, let's see what happens with the Benghazi debacle. That won't end pretty for his administration either.
Sticks and Stones people.
People in glass houses Hanson 6. What planet are you on? Do you even know how many bills were proposed to congress on these issues that were ignored or denied? Do you even know how many others were signed before lame duck shut the President down? No? Look it up.
Romney = Sybil? Romney does not flip flop is that you do not know which personality is talking.
I think if people chillax and remember that the non-specifics and rhetoric coupled with the endless sea of lies coming out of Romney's mouth are due to the fact that the Republicans want deregulation of the banks. That's it. Period. I don't think they care about Social Security or Medicare or women's rights. That's why the back and forth on every issue-they don't have a plan. It's all a smoke screen; they want the money!! So let's bring the conversation around to that simple idea and everything falls into place and makes sense. Doesn't it??
The President is correct that a new Mitt Romney showed up last night -- another in a series of personas! This "Mitt" scuttled his base in order to woo the undecideds with misleading and impossible promises. We need to call him out on this. If his lies win him the White House, the old Mitt will take up residence and dance to the tune of his ultra-right funders.
Right on Maili! Mitt was so confident last night because he "came out" and did exactly what he is so good at: lying without even thinking about it. That wasn't a "new" Mitt Romney. That was THE Mitt Romney. The beautiful liar.
Mitt Romney--the Chameleon Candidate. He changes his colors to suit the audience.
Flip, flop and lie, he don't care why you will vote for him and he will say/do anything for that vote. Mendacity - 99% of voting public does not have a clue what you are talking about - lying - they know, spinning - they know - BS - they know. Mendacity - sounds elitist forget anything attached to it or comes after it! The phrase is liar, liar, liar, pants on fire! Grin.
Been processing the debate all night/day, dealing with the frustration of living in a bizarro world of acceptable lies, trying to clarify my disgust at every single corporate media outlet that is declaring Romney the winner. Here's all I got, a baseball metaphor: If Romney showed up at the Allstar Game HR Derby with a corked bat, his home-runs would be disqualified. His lies are not conspiracy, they are demonstrable. His lies are a corked bat we all know he's swinging. Yet they still call him the winner. It makes no sense. "Journalists" need to work harder.
Yes he has graduated to outright lies. I really don't know why Obama didn't call him out on all his statements
http://www.realcampaignfeeds.com
Interesting how the liberals are trying to spin the debate. Reality check.... Romney was so much more prepared and like I have been saying all along how can this president debate his record? Answer- he can't. Just wait until we get into the next debate and Obama has to defend his record on national defense. It will be much like last night. The good thing is millions were watching last night. They are finally able to see this man without the bias filter of the liberal media!!! I love it!!!
I suppose one could call 90 minutes of denying everything one had previously claimed one stood being "better prepared". Still, it's not President Obama who has to answer to the Republican "base...