In late August, Mitt Romney's chief pollster, asked about the campaign's welfare lie, said, "[W]e're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers." After watching last night, I guess he wasn't kidding.
What will be interesting to watch at this point is whether a meme starts to develop. Phase One of the post-debate analysis saw a consensus quickly coalesce: Romney won with relative ease. Perhaps Phase Two will consider how the Republican managed to do so well?
This is admittedly only a sampling, but this piece from New York's Jon Chait caught my eye:
Romney won the debate in no small part because he adopted a policy of simply lying about his policies. Probably the best way to understand Obama's listless performance is that he was prepared to debate the claims Romney has been making for the entire campaign, and Romney switched up and started making different and utterly bogus ones.
As did this one from Rolling Stone's Tim Dickinson:
Mitt Romney turned in a polished performance in last night's presidential debate – and revealed himself to be an accomplished and unapologetic liar. In an evening where he sought to slice and dice the president with statistics, Romney baldly misrepresented his own policy prescriptions, made up numbers to fit his attacks and buried clear contrasts with the president.
CNN's David Gergen, hardly a liberal, was thinking along the same lines as Chait, saying last night he thinks Obama was surprised that Romney was "flat out lying" during the debate. Plenty of others were thinking along the same lines.
Romney's critics should probably keep expectations low, but if this line of criticism starts to catch on, it could, in theory, step on the Republican's post-debate glow. In fact, the tactics that led to the win could even backfire, doing more harm than good.
As Jonathan Bernstein noted today, "Paul Ryan's convention speech wound up being covered mainly for its mendacity, and that became the story. It seems that there are at least as many factually challenged comments from Romney's debate performance as there were in Ryan's speech."
I'd just add that early this morning, there were signs the DNC and the Obama campaign wasn't sure which direction they'd go in, and initially seemed inclined to launch a "Romney was obnoxious and rude" tack. Seven hour later, the focus has shifted, and the president's allies are far more focused on Romney's dishonesty than his attitude.
It's a dynamic worth watching.
Leave a Comment:
After viewing last night's debate, I watched your post-game analysis and was shocked to see your gang (Mathews, Ed, Rachel, and even Chris Hayes) peeing themselves over Romney's alpha dog performance. "Why," you all asked, "Did not the President engage in a spirited pissing match with his opponent, matching him inch for inch?" Although Obama challenged and/or refuted assertions concerning Romney's tax and budget plans, Obama Care, Dodd-Frank, and the "700 billion dollar cut" to Medicare, This was not enough for you. Apparently it was necessary for Obama to engage in an endless round of "did," "did not," " did too," with his opponent. And this over every specious Romney claim. Your failure as journalists, (or as partisans), was to tell a story about style, rather than one about the cynical and arrogant performance of a serial liar whose campaign is based on an assumption of American stupidity.
Watching Hardball right now and I have to say again: I think everybody is missing the boat here. I see the wisdom in the strategy of coming out on the offense if you want to win. However: what occurred last night was 58 million Americans watching Romney tell lie after lie after lie. GET IT? All on tape! And Romney won't be able to deny it. It would have been here say to millions of Americans had the President challenged him with the "60 Minutes" interview or the secret video tape or anything else that a lot of people still haven't seen. What the President did was let Romney go on and lie and lie and he can now re-butt with evidence that everybody saw with their own eyes in the next debate!! It will be the biggest bust in history!!!!
I hope you guys can get your mind around this idea because I am convinced the President knew exactly what he was doing. I hope Rachel talks about it tonight!
The question no one is asking Romney is whether his investments gained in value during the Obama presidency.
Its very likely his investments made serious gains.
This may answer his determination to keep his tax returns private. It also fits because Romney doesn't talk about the stock market always steering the conversation to jobs, another Obama strength they've tried to turn into a weakness.
When Obama took office the stock market was dying and dipped below 8,000. Today it approaches 14,000.
I'll wager Romney's investments have skyrocketed under Obama and his tax returns prove it.
Thanks for bringing it up Born! Another thought is this: Did Romney suffer any serious losses during the worst market crash since 1929? If not-then he had insider information. Or.... did he take advantage of the Amnesty deal? He won't release 2008, 2009 or 2010 which to me is smelly. Oh gee thanks for 2011 Mitt.
That sure puts that issue to rest.
He did not get hurt. He was not stupid enough to sell when the market was down. He bought more and sold this year and made a killing. Smart Smart man and would turn this country around in 18 months
YEAH TERSAR!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU!
Blackwell's got it right! Had the President jumped in to challenge it would have eaten up the minutes Romney had to get out every lie. I believe the President was looking down because he was willing himself to keep quiet and let Romney keep on lying. Like hooking a BIG fish and letting him swim all the way out there before you reel him in. Now there will be no way Romney can deny anything or flip flop all over again. 58 million Americans saw it with their own eyes! I would not underestimate our President at all. Remember Seth Myers making fun of the fact that nobody could find Bin Laden even though he had a TV show? All the while the President was sitting there knowing the Seals were on the way to take him out. :)
I can only assume the President is playing the long game. Let Mitt have the debate “win” on style and with it the inevitable adulation from the world of right wing punditry and a grudging respect from the rest of the political press. If nothing else, at least the rest of the press will be saying “he won the first debate” and go on about how prepared he was. No matter. I’m certain after these past troubled months that he’s longed for such praise. There can be little doubt that Mitt believes this praise has been long in coming, if not his God-given due. After all, hasn’t Anne been telling us how “difficult” it’s been for team Romney out among the hordes of “moochers” and “takers” and how one day we’ll come to know just how lucky we are to have Mitt
Mitt’s ego should be good and stoked by now. If the past few months have shown us anything it’s that Mitt’s greatest adversary is Mitt. As the consummate bully, he’s never more dangerous to himself than when he’s puffed up and certain he’s got the upper hand. Perhaps this was part of the President’s strategy. Or perhaps the President was distracted by an inability to think of anything other than “I really hate this lying, bloated, piece of &^%#” every time he looked up and saw Mitt’s mouth moving…
I love this blog. Thank you Rachel. Until now I've been a salmon swimming upstream in my predominately Republican Facebook stream. A lone ranger :( So please don't kick me out for blabbing too much! It's heavenly! And DD thanks for your take on Romney's pompous attitude about his "God Given due" and what the President was probably thinking. I totally agree!
PBO has the winningest smile and chuckle and he didn't even use those qualities to his advantage. Not even a genuine are-you-fu*king-serious? baffled look on his face? I would've loved for him to have said something with a grin and a chuckle like, "Where is the real Mitt Romney and what have you done with him? You are obviously Mitt pathological liar" Something...or "No doubt he'd like me to keep funding for the scientific clone research program that produced the clone of Mitt Romney who is standing across from me lying to us here and 58million people watching this on TV."
Shame, shame on the TRMS for buying the hologram!
Watching the Romney hologram last night was like watching an apparation from a parallel universe where everything is inverted, up is down, left is right, and what I said five minutes (or for the past year) is not what I said five minutes ago, where I can be a shameless liar and you won't notice. I think the Romney hologram has lost it's connection to reality.
But what bothers me the most is the media and shockingly THMS (Except for Rev Sharpton-bless his soul) bought the manufactured hologram performance and did not call out the lair. Everyone else was swooning over the hologram's performance and not confronting the fraud that he is fostering on the public.
Before condemning Obama, did anyone think to ask whether there might be a serious national or international crisis evolving that the President was briefed on and thats where his thoughts were, and not focussing on the blustering hologram fool? Recall the night of the Bin Laden operation he left a public event just as the operation was unfolding. Why were the media blind to that possibility?
I can only hope that the american public will not will not make the same mistake-shame on you!
Well, Abka-deaf-ghee-jeckyllman-op-kwer-stoove-wickses!!! What the hell was that lifeless Obama performance last nite? It was so painful to watch...and re-watch over and over. It reminds me of seeing a video of somebody being punched and beaten up by a bully he wouldn't get beaten up by if he only fought back. They just cover up and let them punch away and beat them up, and you're screaming, "Hit back!!! Hit back!!! Swing!!! Do something!!!" And you wish you were there to help in some way, but you can only watch in anger and disappointment as it goes on seemingly forever.
I was disappointed in the post debate coverage too. What was the president supposed to do yell liar liar pants on fire. You know the old saying you can't argue with stupid? Well its pretty tough to argue to aruge with a ball faced liar. Romney was shameful and disgusting and it was awful to watch you guys turn on Obama. You want to know why he doesn't watch cable? Would you? Plus the guy has a bit more to do plus running the whole country, Turkey Syria etc. NOW do YOUR jobs and show everyone Romney's lies!!! Sorry guys I love your shows but last night you behaved poorly. Made all of us liberals look bad too
Adrian I have to agree with you. It looks like the classic give Mitt enough rope…; It simply would have been bad form for the President to come out swinging at the poor old fellow. And with Turkey ( a NATO member) shelling Syrian villages and continuing to do so even after the Assad govt. apologized for the original inadvertent mortar attack on a Turkish village, perhaps The President did have more on his mind than Mitt’s latest tax avoidance scheme.
Since when has, "Don't make any mistakes, just play it safe" been a winning strategy for anything except court apperances? No, D D, and Debbie, you're right, he shouldn't have tried to argue the philosophical merits of his policies vs. Mitt's policies, that would've been a fool's errand. But, don't you agree that, in an election with so much riding on it and so many people watching the 1st debate in the re-election campaign Pres. Obama, that he would have been in perfect form to call Romney on at least 3 out of every 5 of the blatant refutable lies he spewed? That's the only way to force a liar like Romney (or anyone else) to think twice about lying. After all, if you never get called out for lying, why stop? That would've changed the entire conversation and we'd now be blogging about how Romney now has zero credibility as a candidate, much less as a president, and how Pres. Obama proved what everyone already thought knew. He could've just simply mentioned how Mitt's campaign said it "won't be dictated by fact checkers" and, obviously, neither would he let this debate be dictated by fact. He could've made the most cutting refutations as long as he said them with his trademark smile and a genuine, dismissive chuckle.
As for his mind being distracted by extraneous and pressing issues, that excuse doesn't fly with me because that debate should've be the only pressing issue on his mind for 90 minutes. Obama was sorely and soundly beaten and there's no good reason for it, and he should fire everyone who was hired to prep him for it.
You are still missing the point epluribus...a challenge would have interfered with the lie telling. Obama will kick his ass and now he irrefutably has the evidence and the ammunition to do so. To take the time to challenge him on the pre-existing issue or the 5 trillion tax cut would have been a waste of time and the precious minutes he needed to allow Mitt to lie and lie and lie like a rug. People are getting it now. Romney told SO many lies I'm surprised O'bama's mouth didn't fall open. THAT'S why he kept looking down...to keep himself from engaging! Mark my words-you watch! I can't believe the pundits still haven't caught on...
adrianeelise, I only hope you're right. I still don't get it, when PBO had 70+ million people watching very carefully why he felt it was sound strategy to simply not refute, or even criticize, not even a single one of the litany of lies that Romney spewed. It looks like the Obama strategy was, "lose the first debate badly, then Romney will lulled into a false sense of security...and THEN we'll pounce...2 weeks later at the next debate." And that makes no sense at all to me. I'm so pissed at PBO for not standing up for the truth and not standing up to a pathological liar who contradicted his own entire campaign platform, and proceeded to make a fool of him. Obama's got egg all over his face and he's NOT fighting like there is alot at stake in this election. He comes off as a "cool and collected," spineless bimbo--not as a populist president who is willing to fight, tooth and nail, for the issues that millions (47+%) of people care so much about.
I ask you, adrianeelise, where's the genius in that sort of debate/campaign strategy? There is none. I'm an Independent and I'm only voting for Obama because I despise Romney and Ryan and what they (and the GOP) stand for, plain and simple.
I wonder what the mega rich thought about Romney saying he was not in favor of a $5 Trillion tax cut for the rich???
He he.
The President kept his cool and let the lies get out. Imagine a candidate insisting he will not raise your taxes, but at the same time telling you he will cause you to pay more money in taxes by eliminating your tax deductions.
So he doesn't care about 47% and the middle class who pays mortgage interest isn't smart enough to know that he's raising our tax payments.
Hoffa is dead on balls right now. He's giving a wonderful interview on the Ed Show. Love it!
Romney had to lie to present to a national audience the myth that he is a moderate conservative that the left has dressed in a foaming-at-the-mouth fascist righty.
No wonder Obama looked stunned. You can't debate a vapor! Romney is a gaseous cloud of bait and switch tactics.
Wow, after reading some of these posts, Romney must have won by way more than I thought.
Good Luck you all, please don't do anything stupid tonight when you are home alone in the Trailer. I would like to read more tomorrow
The liberal spin- Romney is a liar. What did he lie about? Here is the real truth- you are so use to seeing the liberal media create a false narrative about this man. MSNBC claims to report the news. It might as well be fiction. You live in this world of lies and deception daily and protect Obama as if he cant do anything wrong. Obama wasn't protected last night by you nor did he have his security blanket that is his tela prompter. It will only get worse for him in the second debate. Foreign affairs- his record is even worse, if that is possible, then that of the economy. Get ready for round 2. Romney is a tough debater and discusses facts not lies. My favorite from last night- When Obama was speaking of the importance of hiring more teachers- Romney's rebuttal "if you spent as much on teachers as green energy, you would be able to hire 20 million teachers." These are the facts people not lies and Obama is simply being exposed for his failed policy every step of the way. Oh by the way many of those goverment loans went belly up after year 1- yes he does pick losers. Oh yes- it is Bush's fault I forgot.
Romney lied saying the President has been bad for this economy.
Romney lied saying the President hasn't created jobs.
Romney lied saying he wouldn't raise taxes.
John-I'm sorry. But you are literally on the wrong page as well as the wrong blog. FOX WATCHER.
Robert Murphy
11 minutes ago
Rachel, I am very worried about Big Bird. First they came for Bert and Ernie, and I did not speak
out because I am not in a close relationship with a puppet. Then they came for Kermit, and I did not speak out because I am not green. Then they came for Miss Piggy, and I did not speak out because I do not like pork. Then they came for me, Big Bird, and there was no one left to speak for me.
The top 6 reasons why the debate didn't turn out in Obama's favor.
1. He didnt have his tela prompter
2. Romney kept interrupting
3. Romney did nothing but lie
4. Obama must have been tired from something that has happened in the last few days.
5. Obama didnt arrive to the mile high city until 2pm and he wasnt use to the air - my favorite and this just goes to show how out of touch Gore is.
6. The moderator didn't do a good job.
Come on. Give it up. Just admit Romney did better last night and was so much better prepared to debate Obama. Stop the excuses and stop blaming everyone else.
He was good because O'bama let him. And he was good because he stepped out there and did the only thing he is comfortable with-the only talent he appears to have: LIE. The debate turned out exactly the way O'bama planned. That's okay though. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.
Everybody has one.
Now that I have had 24 hours to digest this debate, in addtion to having the experience of almost seeing Chris Matthews' head explode last night.
Mitt gets the points for presentation. But, once again lost in the presentation was any substance which the President squandered opportunities.....or so I thought
Thing is, I think it is a set up. The next round is Biden/Ryan. Say what you want about Biden's gaffs or gaffaws or whatever. But, he is the guy with the FACTS (which are generally on target), the NUMBERS (which Ryan seems to be afraid of....mmmm side thought, maybe we need to look at his math SAT's, after all he couldn't even get the simple numbers of his marathon time correct).
Anyway, Wednesday night was Round One of Four Rounds, Next week, Biden will set the table and in the final 2 debates, the president will sit down and eat the meal.....
Thank you, GuyNY! I hope you're right!
"Romney won the debate in no small part because he adopted a policy of simply lying about his policies. Probably the best way to understand Obama's listless[/confused -- a tactical intention --] performance is that he was prepared to debate the claims Romney has been making for the entire campaign, and Romney switched up and started making different and utterly bogus ones."
this is our first step, i think, in 'rebutting' this debate itself --
"Odious" - that is the best word for the dark airs that surround a man showing up as Presidential hopeful, lying so gratuitously to make Barack Obama confused (my annotation), stunned, & be such a shapeshifter in front of everybody -- like a Classical political event -- the only other recent memory of such was Mitch McConnell stalling/calling for cloture(?) the debt-ceiling bill in the 11th hour, as if stalling our government operation & sabotaging our credit rating was as routine as a walk in the park --
it is odious.
this is our first 'response', (in my opinion). that is our first message to those not discerning that that was what happened - why Obama was off-balance, why Romney had such wide 'lanes' for (is this the second point?) the the conniving Republican 'messaging' system - almost like the synthetic compounds of information, information cooked up that has one desired effect (i say this as a big fan of Dr. Mercola & Natural Health), & a host of bad ones once you get it in your body - it is 'synthetic' & not 'organic' - not 'real' from the heart♥ talk -- it is bogus, contrived, people-pleaser sales pitches for things that sound good, in a way... until you buy it & bring it home - you plug it in & it makes a funny high pitched sound, it has ads they are making more money on than the mere sale, & it generally is a failure of discernment on your part & a win on the part of the corporate, the salesman, the business - & that is what it is sort of (i'm feeling here - for this) - corporate claptrap versus real honest public dialogue. the 2nd point is he's not respresenting veraciously, he's selling you stuff that's gonna blow up in your face like a Loony Tunes blast as soon as it's too late to realisitically do anything about it - it will be further Plutocracy (rule by the rich) - 'the' (best) 2nd point, i wonder is that he's sales pitching, say-anything to move an item.
he's never been a businessman before, or anything, has he?
[more from me later - for anyone who cared (*crickets*) i have been unable to do much Net-posting for a year -- am not exactly back but donig what i can as i can friends & all the ladiez (all ladiez c'mon say ow! ow! say one one! say sergie over there, say!), because of the stature of the stakes in this election. take care]
Honestly, anyone who thinks obama will win is an idiot Wake up, get a job, and hope those around you will also get a job. Obama has failed and its about time we got someone in office who actually knows what he/she is doing
Was It A Debate Challenge for President Obama? Maybe Not. Food for Thought.
We need to recognize that we have a clever President. He is constantly thinking about what is the best move, that will give the ultimate results, for his mission.
Now, I know many say, "Why didn't President Obama, say this or that…" — "Romney won…" and so on, during the Oct. 3rd debate.
One thing you must admit, President Obama has always been a consistent broker. He knows his policies through and through. He knows his opponent, is a dodger, a flip-flopper and basically a habitual liar. Putting a hand up to faces of the naysayers, the President has accomplished some important political and policy wins, despite the stalemating of a Republican controlled Congress.
So what we should be asking ourselves is how is it possible for him (Our President) to come off so timid, at such an important event, with over 60 million of the citizenry watching, with eyes wide. Not to mention the thousands or even millions that were watching via the internet, worldwide.
Has anyone considered that the president may have been playing Romney. Allowing Romney to come out full force — as one of his many faces.
We Americans tend to get, too emotional about things. I know, because I'm one of them.
But, President Obama, has read the book, "The Art of War", and it is evident in Wednesday performance that he was using it:
Quotes from the Art of War:
The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom.
Sun Tzu
Pretend inferiority and encourage his (the opponent's) arrogance.
Sun Tzu
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.
Sun Tzu
He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious.
Sun Tzu
If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.
Sun Tzu
Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
Sun Tzu
You must admit that the President's performance, allowed Romney to sing like a bird, albeit they were mostly lies. But, Romney's lies has put a millstone around his neck, with the large yellow sticker of "VOUCHER CARE" stuck to his forehead, to be carried for the next 32 days, for all to see.
We have to watch the remaining debates, and the next 32 days like spectators at a Chess Match. A dead pawn here, a dead Bishop there, and a dead Rook, means absolutely nothing to a seasoned chess master.
Was It A Debate Challenge for President Obama? Maybe Not. Food for Thought. (Cont'd)
The other thing that came to my mind is that President Obama has to be a very formidable chess player. Why? Because he knows how to draw others into his bait of "Check Mate".
I came across this article online about the US Presidents that played/play chess and how the game afforded them to discover their opponents weak points and exploit the advantage of well targeted preparation.
(Note: Before your readers start freaking out about, the president is an elitist because Chess is considered the game of Kings— I am an African American. Actually many in our community play this game. In Michigan, where I was born, you can find African American men (especially) young and old, playing the game at our waterfront park (Hart Plaza) during many of Detroit's Ethnic festivals. I remember some of the suburban visitors watching in amazement, that many of these humble looking (low income) men were avid and pretty damn good chess players.)
Which US presidents played the royal game?
Of the 43 presidents of the United States, over the last 222 years, 24, i.e. more than half, have played and enjoyed chess. It started with the first president, George Washington, and ends with Barack Obama, who has occasional games with Michelle Obama.
George Washington (1789-1797)
Thomas Jefferson (1801-1809)
James Madison (1809-1817)
James Monroe (1817-1825)
John Quincy Adams (1825-1829)
Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
Martin Van Buren (1837-1841)
Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)
Abraham Lincoln (1861-1865)
Ulysses S. Grant (1869-1877)
Rutherford Hayes (1877-1881)
James A. Garfield (1881)
Grover Cleveland (1885-1889)
Theodore Roosevelt (1901-1909)
William Howard Taft (1909-1913)
Woodrow Wilson (1913-1921)
Calvin Coolidge (1923-1929)
Franklin Roosevelt (1933-1945)
Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
Dwight Eisenhower (1953-1961)
John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
Barack Obama (2009-present)
Hey Robinsong! Thank you for that-I am so happy people are starting to pipe up. You bet he was playing Romney! ( Can you imagine how much it was killing him though?) But hells yeah he's read them all and he was definitely working it. I just can't believe people-especially the pundits-don't get it. Or, like you said, believe O'bama would walk out there in front of 60 million Americans and take a beating like that if it wasn't his "Art of War" strategy? I said this once before: have people forgotten the night Seth Myer was standing up there making fun of the fact that nobody could seem to find Bin Laden-even though he had his own tv show? And O'bama just sat there and smiled, knowing all the while that the Seals had left the night before to go take Bin Laden out. Yeah our President is dumb as a fox!
Forecasting the Romney win into a polling gain:http://actuarygambler.blogspot.com/2012/10/election-model-forecasting-romneys.html
If Mitt Romney realizes the full value of his debate win in polls, he could put FL, VA, and CO back into play, and IA in reach.
Of course he would still need one more state.
Am I the only that was whiplashed by the new Mitt Romney healthcare plan whereby the private insurance companies insure the healthy and Medicare gets the sick? The insurance companies get the profits and the taxpayers get the bill. Yeah for Republican economics! Dig that economic ditch that they already put the country in 4 years ago even deeper! The rich invest in the insurance companies, pay 15% tax - or nothing if they are investing from the Caymen Islands or through their blind Trust. Obama should stand up, look us in the eye, not Jim Lehrer, and defend all the great stuff he has done even if there have been mistakes and even if the republicans have blocked him every step of the way!