If recent history is any guide, Republicans will probably start complaining about the Bureau of Labor Statistics sample size any minute now, complaining it's "skewed."
The new jobs report released this morning was largely in line with expectations, showing a U.S. economy that added 114,000 jobs in September. For a change, there was no gap in the public vs. private sectors -- American businesses added 104,000 jobs last month, while the government also added 10,000 jobs. [corrected]
Given the severity of the Great Recession that began in late 2007, and the losses associated with the years-long jobs crisis, no one should pop any champagne over 114,000 new jobs. That's only slightly more than the nation needs to keep up with population growth, and a healthier recovery would see numbers at least twice as high.
The reason, however, that the new report is encouraging is the larger context: the unemployment rate dipped to 7.8%, which is nearly a four-year low, and the revisions found 86,000 additional, unreported jobs from the last two years.
And while drops in the unemployment rate are sometimes the result of Americans leaving the workforce, that's not the case in this new report -- the employment-to-population ratio went up, not down.
By most measures, this can fairly be described as a strong jobs report, at least relative to where we've been.
For context, I'd note that so far in 2012, the economy has created over 1.3 million jobs over, which isn't even close to being good enough, but the total is already better than five of the eight years of the Bush/Cheney era.
Above you'll find the chart I run on the first Friday of every month, showing monthly job losses since the start of the Great Recession. The image makes a distinction -- red columns point to monthly job totals under the Bush administration, while blue columns point to job totals under the Obama administration.
Update: Here's another chart, this one showing monthly job losses/gains in just the private sector since the start of the Great Recession.
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Why no mention of the U-6 report Ed? Could it be the real numbers don't support the msdnc agenda?
Yeah you're not drinking Kool-Aid because you're probably too busy drinking that Republican/Tea Party moonshine.
Wow, Jajuan, clever. LOL Typical response of the left though, don't address the issue just deflect, distract, and throw in some name calling.
And tell us that's not what you're doing. Bad mouthing Ed for something he may not even know about yet. Ever read the vine rules? Didn't think so.
Oh a righty wanting to get righteousness now. Funny when we know righties have been the experts at deflection and name calling.
truth hurts huh not drinking the koolaid? you righties never learn and never will...
ROFLMAO!! And still no comments on the topic at hand. If you don't know what the U-6 is, google it, educate yourself. Than come back and try to have a conversation. TaTa
I had not heard of U-6, very interesting numbers.
Looks as if Romney's premise of what would make him a better choice for President is coming unglued. That's why you got Scarborough and other Republicans making this idiotic suggestion that somehow the Labor Department is cooking the books to make the picture look rosier to conflict Obama's debate performance. If they were going to do that why stop at a mere 114,000 jobs added? Give me a break with where some of you guys get these stupid conspiracy theories. And as for the debate this week, only one incumbent President ever won his first debate in his reelection campaign and that was Bill Clinton. So beware with thinking that the first debate being won means winning the election. As is in the historical record, Walter Mondale won the first debate in the 1984 only to lose that election in what may have been the worst landslide loss ever, a ridiculous loss of 49 out of the 50 states.
Rachel Maddow couldnt have said it better.
Well, she would have had more style. But essentially the same thing.
No one on Fox Propaganda would have said it at all.
Well we must remember Rachel is a tv personality so style is almost a given with her delivery lol
I just love this one.
http://www.upworthy.com/fox-news-tries-to-ambush-jon-stewart-on-television-they-probably-shouldnt-have-d?c=upw1
these TEA BAGERS must really ---really-- hate this country <<>>>somebody please--please <<<------------- tell me why they pray for a bad JOBS report--------------------- just DOOM and GLOOM all the time
Nobody is "praying for a bad jobs report".
No, the Republicans are working for it:
Here are five ways the Republicans have sabotaged job growth courtesy of Think Progress:
1. Filibustering the American Jobs Act. Last October, Senate Republicans killed a jobs bill proposed by President Obama that would have pumped $447 billion into the economy. Multiple economic analysts predicted the bill would add around two million jobs and hailed it as defense against a double-dip recession. The Congressional Budget Office also scored it as a net deficit reducer over ten years, and the American public supported the bill.
2. Stonewalling monetary stimulus. The Federal Reserve can do enormous good for a depressed economy through more aggressive monetary stimulus, and by tolerating a temporarily higher level of inflation. But with everything from Ron Paul’s anti-inflationary crusade to Rick Perry threatening to lynch Chairman Ben Bernanke, Republicans have browbeaten the Fed into not going down this path. Most damagingly, the GOP repeatedly held up President Obama’s nominations to the Federal Reserve Board during the critical months of the recession, leaving the board without the institutional clout it needed to help the economy.
3. Threatening a debt default. Even though the country didn’t actually hit its debt ceiling last summer, the Republican threat to default on the United States’ outstanding obligations was sufficient to spook financial markets and do real damage to the economy.
4. Cutting discretionary spending in the debt ceiling deal. The deal the GOP extracted as the price for avoiding default imposed around $900 billion in cuts over ten years. It included $30.5 billion in discretionary cuts in 2012 alone, costing the country 0.3 percent in economic growth and 323,000 jobs, according to estimates from the Economic Policy Institute. Starting in 2013, the deal will trigger another $1.2 trillion in cuts over ten years.
5. Cutting discretionary spending in the budget deal. While not as cataclysmic as the debt ceiling brinksmanship, Republicans also threatened a shutdown of the government in early 2011 if cuts were not made to that year’s budget. The deal they struck with the White House cut $38 billion from food stamps, health, education, law enforcement, and low-income programs among others, while sparing defense almost entirely.
So the next time you hear some Right Wing @!$%# going on and on about how President Obama did not keep his promise to fix the economy, and should be replaced by somebody who can, you just remind them that if it wasn't for the @!$%#s that HE and his buddies helped to get elected, and the damage that the LAST Republican president did to the economy, this country would be doing quite well right now.
Honestly the ONLY way to fix our dire situation is to replace as many Republicans as possible in the House and Senate, and clear the path to allow this President to do the job that we are about to reelect him to do.
http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2012/07/republicans-celebrate-bad-jobs-report.html
Really Chris.....Think Progress? You might as well be quoting from the Communist Manifesto.
I always know a right-winger has nothing to say when they start yelling "communist!"
It's the buzz word the Republicans taught you when your brain gives out.
Chris
I don't think that Think Progress will score you many points these days.
I tell ya what ya do.....get your good stuff from reliable sources like KOS and The Huffingandpuffingtonpost!!
hohohohoho!!
Uh-oh! Somebody isn't going by the NBC playbook!!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49302044
And several righties not going by the rules of the vine.
Larry
I seem to recall you getting quite a reprimand for insulting your fellow posters!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you've learned a thing or two since then and have corrected your selfish ways.
Thank you. It was not "quit a reprimand" it was a warning. And you just told everybody that you are a re-reg.
No
It was a reprimand, I seem to recall you whining about it on Ed's site.
So posting an article from a sister network is against the rules? That's awesome! Wouldn't want the left hand to know......well, you know the rest
Of course the jobs report looks (looks) better. When you consider Obamas Administration has recently added thousands to the Gov role. And in addition, the DNC hired several thousand to fill seats at the DNC convention. And SEIU hired people to follow the Romney rallies around to protest. And many of these new fantastic jobs are only part-time. Cmon folks! Obama is still cooking the books.
Whell what do you know...another little surprise Barry has for the taxpayers (not the 47% we love so dearly).
"The threshold for claiming the itemized medical and dental expense deduction is scheduled to increase from 7.5 to 10 percent of AGI."
That's gonna cost anyone that has medical expenses even if you're on Medicare.
Thank you mr president!!!
And your sources are. OH, forgot, Fox Lies.
My sources are the best tax expert I know........................ME
Mark off another campaign promise that the President made and has kept, To The American People. -He got the job rates below 8%!-----I think that should do it. Mr. President, You've kept 99% of all your promises..THANK YOU! ----What a Great President We have, ----Looking "FORWARD" to 4 more with BO & JOE! OBAMA/BIDEN 2012---
We all should celebrate....7.8% of our fellow citizens can't find a job and another 6% have stopped looking. Children are moving back with their parents. It's a record that the President should run on.......PLEEEEZE MR OBAMA RUN ON YOUR RECORD!!!!
Please Mr. President Run on your Record--PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!
Yours is at 100%--Mr. Romney has yet to admit that he has one..
GO BO GO! --GOTTA LOVE YA!
Question to all the people that truly believe the unemployment numbers
If the economy need between 125,000 and 175,000 jobs a month just to stay EVEN
How did the country create ONLY 114,000 jobs and unemployment went down from 8.1% to 7.8%???
Would you care to give us your sources for NOT believe the numbers. But then, it is nice to know you care so little about the ones that did get jobs to say they didn't.
I'm sure the remaining near 23 million unemployed feel better now. What this country needs right now is not a Democrat or Republican, but instead someone who understands the economy and how to fix it Somone with experience like--oh, I dunno, uh,,,, maybe Mitt Romney..
Hayes
If 20% of the losers that have been on welfare since birth got a job then Barry would have something to brag about.
So you'd prefer the UE numbers went up if all those unemployed aren't immediately found jobs?
What's R/R's plan to immediately place those 23 million back in the work force? Government jobs? Force private industry to hire un-needed personnel?
Inquiring minds would like to know...
i think the president handed romney a rope so he can hang himself, and mitt took it hook line and sinker
i think the president handed romney a rope so he can hang himself
I think you're right. Obama acted like an uninformed, incompetent, negligent buffoon on purpose.
LOL
Woolard said more fudge! Tell Shell to raise the price of gasoline!
YOU WANT GASOLINE TO GO HIGHER?
Are you not happy enough that gasoline under President Obama has DOUBLED from $1.84 on the day he took office to over $4.00 today?
OMG! You're a FAKE republican lets kick you OUT!
patricia. Please tell us how the president is going to control speculators. Or didn't you read about that this morning. Also CA refinery problems. Your GOP friends stopped 3 bills trying to curb the speculation. but continue blame President Obama for everything he has no control over.
Larry
By your post it reflects you know NOTHING about how the oil futures market runs
I know what the reports say. Speculation is driving up the cost of gas. And don't even try the Obama policies. He hasn't gatten any passed for quite some time thanks to you GOP do nothing freeloaders.
Larry don't forget the US #1 export...............oil.
Isn't exports a good thing?
Gasoline in Calabasas CA hit 6 bucks today. I just love it when liberals get exactly what they've wanted for years.
Thank you preznit Obama!!!!!!!!!!
Will all Fox Trolls plaese report to the Fox Noise Net Work at 6;30pm for their weekend Troll blogging lessons------------>>>>>>>>>> today subject how to hate the job report and talk down to liberals oh and yea how to ETCH-A-SKETCH
y
gjelly. You forgot to mention their hate machine as well.
i know but there so much these trolls are so hard to work with/// they are just like their congressmen
Heh heh heh...........Another debate???? Oh No!!!! What taxes? I thought you said Texas!
Gjelly,
all those funny buttons on your keyboard, you don't have to use them all the time. and frankly us Conservatives have better things to do on Friday night..: )
Then what are you doing here?
Now he pretends he has a life just like he has a job.
Our unemployment rate would be at 6% if the Congress had passed all of President Obama's spending bills. 12 major spending bills are sitting in Congress right now that should have been passed so President Obama could sign them into law. Right wingers need to remind themselves of the GOP's obstructionism that has stopped the creation or saving of at least three million jobs. The American jobs Act would have created or saved two million jobs. The Small Business tax credit bill would have helped small business create at least one million jobs. So for you math challenged right wingers you need to remember that the GOP's obstructionism and filibustering of bills has cost us three million jobs plus. All we get are short term spending resolutions from this failed GOP Congress.
http: //thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/249441-gop-dems-trade-blame-on-spending-then-pass-six-month-cr
The GOP House failed to pass the Farm Bill:
http: //www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/01/congress-just-let-the-farm-bill-expire-its-not-the-end-of-the-world-yet/
The GOP House failed to pass the American Jobs Act last year as President Obama asked for in September, 2011. This cost our economy two million jobs:
http: //maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/09/07/13726783-the-american-jobs-act-one-year-later?lite
http: //republicanjobcreation.com/
The GOP in the Senate blocks the Small business tax credit bill that economists say would have created one million jobs in July, 2012:
http: //www.rollcall.com/news/gop_blocks_senate_small_business_tax_cut_bill-216100-1.html
http: //maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/07/12/12707246-senate-gop-kills-small-business-tax-cut-bill?lite
Here is an article at Crooks and Liar's website that outlines the extent of the GOP filibustering and obstructionism in Congress including the American Jobs Act:
http: //crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/republicans-unprecedented-obstructionism-by-numbers
Here is a quote from the Washington Posts Ezra Klein on the DailyKos blog webpage. Quote starts here with website listed below:
"Most observers agree that its basic point is correct: We're seeing many more filibusters today than we ever did before. But I actually think that's the wrong way to think about it. The issue today isn't that we see 50, or 100, or 150 filibusters. It's that the filibuster is a constant where it used to be a rarity. Indeed, it shouldn't even be called "the filibuster": It has nothing to do with talking, or holding the floor. It should be called the 60-vote requirement. It applies to everything now even when the minority does not specifically choose to invoke it. There are no longer, to my knowledge, categories of bills that don't get filibustered because such things are simply not done, though there are bills that the minority chooses not to invoke their 60-vote option on. That's why Harry Reid says things like "60 votes are required for just about everything," though there are a small number of bills where the majority uses the budget reconciliation process to short-circuit the 60-vote requirement."
Quote stops here with website sourced below:
http: //www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/23/1094253/-Guilty-as-Charged-How-the-GOP-Killed-Washington
So when right wingers bitch and whine about the unemployment rate its their policies that have made it so high. We need to remember its the GOP and their strategy to keep it that way to make President Obama a one term president. Many Republicans feel that a black president is illegitimate. So we are dealing irrational racism that is rampant in the GOP. Republicans have an irrational hatred of President Obama based on race and want to see him fail at any price. End the racist obstructionism in Congress. Vote Obama/Biden 2012 and a straight Democratic ticket for all state and local races.
Rex------Talk to your Morman buddy Harry Ried. Hes sitting on them. You need to pull your self away from that Maddow propaganda and find some honest information. IMO
Some guys earn their pay others steal others....
Yes, the latter is called re-distribution.
Please tell us how the president is going to control speculators.
I think the president should tell us how he will control speculators.
"Our unemployment rate would be at 6% if the Congress had passed all of President Obama's spending bills. "
Gee What a shock..............Rex suggests spending will save the day.
We're 16T in the hole now. Why do you think the magic number should be 20T?
S&P is getting ready to downgrade the US again, because we carry too much debt. That means higher interest rates.
Sorry, you can have your own stupidity, but you don't get your own facts. The threat to downgrade the credit rating is because Republicans are threatening to pull the same trick that caused the last, and only, downgrade of our country's credit rating - by refusing to raise the debt ceiling and refusing to raise taxes to help decrease the deficit.
At the end of WWII the debt to GDP of the US was something along the lines of 5 to 1, today it's just around 1 to 1. Horrors! However did we survive that monstrous depression that began in 1946...oh wait, that's right. There wasn't a depresion in 1946 because there were, literally, billions in saviings for people to spend on cars, houses, furniture, clothes, entertainment. People today don't have those billions saved, they've had to spend them over the past thirty years of "trickle-down/on" economics.
Why weren't the funding jobs passed? It certainly couldn't have been because we're so horribly in debt, because if the debt/deficit crisies were as bad as Republicans claimed they were, why won't Republicans agree to raise taxes? It's not as if Reagan and GWB didn't run up 2/3s of it. What, didn't they think it was ever supposed to be repaid? I know, rhetorical question...
The problem that has developed is that Republicans, as a party, have never had any idea how a modern economy actually works and have been running on an undeserved reputation of "fiscal" responsibility for nearly a century now.
Keynesian economics works. When the country is doing well economically; ie, those years when government income passes expenditures, government pays down its' debts. During economically bad years the government increases its' expenditures to take up the economic slack until the economy picks up. Which means that President Obama's American Jobs Act is exactly what the Federal government should do as we're currently suffering from higher than average levels of unemployment.
The last two Presidents to balance a budget were DD Eisenhower and WJ Clinton. I'll settle for tax rates that existed under Mr. Clinton, although I prefer those that were in effect under Gen. Eisenhower. Look'em up, you might find them interesting, especially the growth rates of the economies those two presided over.
Ente: You are not the brightest bulb on the public policy making fixture are you? Did you remember the reason we have trillion dollar deficits? I'll remind you that President Clinton left President Bush a surplus of $150 billion in 2001 with a national debt of $5 trillion. By Bush last budget, fiscal year 2010, the national debt had doubled to $11 trillion with a budget deficit of $1.3 trillion. It gets worse than this because of the costs of the Great Recession but the two wars were going disastrously wrong. The two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan plus the two Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003. The two Bush wars cost $4 trillion long term. The Bush tax cuts have added at least $2 trillion to the national debt. If this was not enough then we had to have the Big Pharma giveaway called the Prescription Drug Part D benefit. Then of course there was TARP, the bailout bills, plus the other actions taken for the terrible Great Recession. So when you wonder why we have so many problems go to the mirror and say: "GOP."
If the Unemployment Numbers are correct shoudn't there be a noticable if notsignificant reduction in Food Stamp usage and should there be a decline in people at or below the Poverty Level? I am not sure how any one can come to a .4% reduction in Unemployment based on 60K phone calls. Its the number of new applicants for Unemployment Benefits more indicitive of job growth or losses?
People like Jack Welch are ignorant, intolerant, and is a liar. Jack Welch is a Tea Begger, and is a "Bonehead Birther." This GOP/RNC "Super Spewer" has no evidence of any wrong doing, and to think that any President could ever manipulate these numbers is 'mentally ill.' The "Nazis News Network." AKA. Fox News. Is a network of "Crazy Conservative Crap." The facts are these. The US Job Market, and the US Housing Market is on the up in creating profits for more people. The Unemployment rate is at 7.8% and that is fact! The GOP/RNC are fully involved in voter fraud, and the US Justice Department had better start prosecuting these TRAITORS quickly. That is fact!
Sounds like you just described the right wing trolls we have.
Lar,, U sure youre on the right blog?
Yep. But I know and you know you're on the wrong one. And we all why. And the name is Larry.
Its all in the numbers....Ha ha ha! Tough luck Woolard. Billionaires nightmare! And some guys just don't know when to quit!
Ha ha Here comes the Judge here comes the Judge!
Republicans created the problems and Obama is solving them.
The Real ID Act banned drivers licenses for undocumented immigrants at the same time Bush raised the cost of a green card from $100 to over $1,000 for people making $0.10/pound picking grapes. The fee increase is being used to pay for 911 border security.
We call them "illegal immigrants" because they are too poor to pay for documentation, and police make tens of $millions$ every year from impound fees and vehicle auctions.
This violates the illegal search and seizure provision of the US constitution.
Over 5 million people "self deport" from the US between 2006 and 2010 after police threaten them and steal their cars.
California population suddenly drops by over 2 million. That departure collapsed housing prices by 40% on the west coast.
Over 5 million abandoned houses across the US. At least 4 million people loose their jobs as a direct result of reduced consumer demand.
Each 100 immigrants spend enough money to employ about 60 citizens through consumer demand for vehicles, clothing, and food, in addition to paying rent and mortgages for dwellings that would otherwise be abandoned.
Obama issues an immigration amnesty in June and consumer demand went up enough to employ over 100,000 more US citizens immediately after several hundred thousand people gain temporary legal residency.
Vacancy rates are down in California for the first time since 2007 and prices are slowly rising.
And Romney has openly stated that he wants to:
Meanwhile wealthy people are running TV adds that claim that putting money in banks vaults by cutting taxes will increase consumer demand despite the fact that everyone knows that retail sales from the middle class and poor create most jobs.
At the same time wealthy people are lying to people by claiming that immigrants are stealing their jobs by working in fields picking grapes at $0.10/pound and that some kind of magic prevents housing from becoming abandoned when immigrants leave the US.
Howdy C.A. Indeed again dirty pool from the the ones who brought us the economic failure. Gotta kick some ass. Talk about a bunch of dirty birds! Yellow Kochsuckers!
About five year highs in the stock market WOW Unemployment 7.8***** Great news for this country! But why is this BAD NEWS????
Hey xxx.....I think it sounds like good news. If the unemployment rate truly went down because we created more jobs than we lost and it wasn't due to people leaving the job market....I say awesome....However, I think we all know why the stock market is up.....we are printing more money....that is not a good thing....
Oh good god Mr. President help California NOW!
If Congress had passed the American Jobs Act, the numbers would have been 6.8%. Congress should lose their jobs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-gongloff/unemployment-september-2012-78-percent_b_1942873.html
Good point Jenny. If Congress had passed the Small Business Tax credit act we would have created another one million jobs on top of the two million the American Jobs Act would have created or public sector jobs saved. Boneheaded GOP Senators with the I.Q. of a turnip filibustered the Small Business Tax credit Act. When you put your own political gain in front of the needs of the country you have no need to be a public servant because you have become a servant of corporate special interests. The GOP is the party of the plutocrats and corporatist elite in our society. We need to vote them out. Vote Obama/Biden 2012 and a straight Democratic ticket for your local elections.
Most interestingly the United States sister country Canada also had much better than expected job growth for the same period. Remembering the Canadian economy is bound to the United States' economy, it backs up the U.S. numbers. In fact Canada’s domestic economy turned in one of the strongest job creation months of the year, adding an eye-popping 52,100 new jobs that was five times more than Canadian economists expected. The Canadian Federal Agency responsible, Statistics Canada, has no connection to "Chicago Politicians". In fact the Canadian Federal political party in power at the moment is the "conservative party of Canada. Sorry Jack but you are out to lunch on this one.
Here is a quote from Bloomberg News article that supports Charles McManus's point about Canadian job report. Quote starts here with website below:
"The Canadian dollar rose versus its U.S. peer as domestic employers added five times more jobs than forecast, adding to speculation Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney will raise the central bank’s target interest rate.
The loonie, as the currency is nicknamed, strengthened to a two-week high as employers added 52,100 jobs in September, Statistics Canada reported in Ottawa. That exceeded forecasts for an increase of 10,000 jobs. A U.S. government report showed payrolls increased 114,000 and the unemployment rate unexpectedly dropped to 7.8 percent."
Quote ends here with the website sourced below to read the whole story please go to:
http: //www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-05/canada-dollar-rallies-as-u-s-canada-jobs-gains-fuel-demand.html
Conservatives are idiots if they think these job numbers were fixed. No one has ever accused the Department of Labor of giving false statistics. These government statistics are closely guarded secrets until they are put out officially. Government policies prohibit such information from being put out until pain staking security procedures are adhered too. If you believe these numbers are cooked then you are either an idiot or a conservative. Either way you are not very bright and completely wrong because these statistics are real.
Filibustering the American Jobs Act. Last October, Senate Republicans killed a jobs bill proposed by President Obama that would have pumped $447 billion into the economy. Multiple economic analysts predicted the bill would add around two million jobs and hailed it as defense against a double-dip recession. The Congressional Budget Office also scored it as a net deficit reducer over ten years, and the American public supported the bill.
Why did some democrates vote against this bill?
HAHAHAAA I love it... the GOP/TP after walking around all puffy chested about Mitt's perceived victory, and they were ready to peel rubber, only to have that 7.8% news slash their tires!!!
Hi Ed,
Just finished an email to Chris about two things that are making me crazy! I see that you have one of them addressed on your site- the jobs creation graph. WHY are Dems not preaching this on a daily basis WITH THIS GRAPH????? It clearly shows we were on our way to a depression under Bush, and it also shows the TREND immediately being reversed when Obama took over. It also explains "the net job creation" lie the Republicans are spewing. It's obvious from the graph that jobs were still being lost in the BEGINNING of Obama's administration, but the TREND HAD TURNED AROUND IMMEDIATELY!
Second, the "gas price doubling lie"! Ughh! Look at the 5-year chart here: http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx
You can see that there RECORD NATIONAL GAS PRICE AVERAGE WAS UNDER BUSH IN JUNE 2008! (Sorry 'bout the caps, this just fires me up!). The doubling argument Repubs use is based on the very brief massive spike downward in prices when Bush was on his way out, and Obama on his way in.
Anyway, keep up the good work my friend!
Bob in Pennsy