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When it comes to setting up the four national debates -- three for the presidential candidates; one for the vice presidential candidates -- there's quite a bit of behind-the-scenes negotiating to cover every possible details. Campaign officials go back and forth over everything from temperature in the hall to podium placement to whether the candidates should sit or stand.
But it appears Paul Ryan's representatives had a different kind of concern in mind.
When Paul Ryan and Joe Biden take the debate stage tonight in Danville, Ky., the form of address the vice president is supposed to use with his opponent is "mister" instead of "congressman," two sources confirmed to POLITICO.
The form of address is part of the detailed memorandum of understanding between the two camps, according to the sources familiar with the document.
The morning Mitt Romney introduced Ryan as his running mate, it seemed to open the Republican ticket up to an important vulnerability -- Ryan is a leading member of the least popular Congress since the dawn of modern polling. It seemed like a big risk for Romney, who'd boasted about being a Washington outsider untainted by the inside-the-Beltway mess, to partner up with a seven-term House member at a time when Congress' favorability rating is lower than BP's during the oil-spill crisis.
It turns out not to have made much of a difference, but that doesn't mean Ryan is eager to remind the nation he's spent nearly all of his adult life on Capitol Hill.
Of course, if I'm Vice President Biden, I'm not sure if I'd be able to resist the urge to call Ryan "congressman," over and over again, just to see what happens. What's the right-wing lawmaker going to do, leave the stage?
Update: Politico's report has been updated to say the moderator, Martha Raddatz, is supposed to call Ryan "mister," not "congressman," though Biden is apparently free to call him whatever he wants. The larger point -- Ryan seems a little embarrassed about where he works -- stands, but it's an important clarification.
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I think if he wanted to The Vice President could technically get away with referring to him as "Representative Ryan"...wonder what the focus group demographics would think of that title.
Calling him "mister" might even seem condescending considering he is, in fact, a Congressman. Maybe they WANT Biden to seem like he's intentionally being a jerk and not calling Ryan by his earned title and instead is going for just "mister". Either way, I'm with Steve. Call him Congressman. All. Debate. Long.
It'd be wonderful to see Biden call him "Congressman' (respectfully) over and over and over. Ryan could do nothing but pout, and it'd surely get his blood boiling. Any verbal objection would be seen for what it is: a crybaby tantrum. Walk off the stage? Yeah, that'd be a good move.
I was thinking the same thing. Of course Ryan could walk off, but I don't think that is likely.
He is a sitting Congressman and therefore should be referred to as Congressman. Vice President Biden is the sitting Vice President and is addressed as such. Enough with the BS - I agree respectfully call him Congressman over and over again.
The update confirms that only Raddatz is to call him "mister" and Joe can call him anything he chooses. Even so, if Biden had to address him as Mister Ryan, you can still easily hang Congress around his neck. Example: "Mister Ryan's voting record in Congress over the last 14 years...." "I understand that Mister Ryan, while in Congress..." "Mister Ryan and his friends in Congress have ..."
See? Easy!
Actually, I wouldn't put it past Joe to just come out and say "I guess we're supposed to address my opponent tonight as Mister Ryan instead of Congressman Ryan. I assume that's because he doesn't want to be associated publicly with the least productive, most obstructionist Congress in our nation's history."
Of course, if I'm Vice President Biden, I'm not sure if I'd be able to resist the urge to call Ryan "congressman," over and over again, just to see what happens. What's the right-wing lawmaker going to do, leave the stage?
Frankly, I'm surprised that the Obama campaign agreed to this condition. What's the right-wing lawmaker going to do, refuse to debate?
In the book, "Game Changer," the authors pointed out that Biden prides himself on keeping his word. So, as much as I'd like to see it happen, I doubt that he'll take Steve's excellent advice.
There is, however, a way around this. Biden should point out, as frequently as possible, that Ryan is in a leadership position in the current Congress. He doesn't have to address Ryan as Congressman in order to make that perfectly clear to the viewing audience.
I wonder how explicit the wording of the agreement is. He could address him as Mr Ryan when he's speaking directly to him, but refer to him as "The Congressman" when he's talking to the camera.
MindBend,
Exactly!
Don't people realize the BB playoffs and football are on tonight. I, like I suspect many, will DVR it. That's if they're interested.
Yes. No one is going to be watching the debates because BB and football are far more important than the debate.
/sarcasm off/
I'm thinking maybe Biden should refer to him pithily as "the far right wingnut economic and budget fraud Congressman, Republican obstructionist, anti-Catholic Catholic whom Nuns on the Bus nor bishops like, and consummate dickweed from Janesville, where schools apparently don't teach anything about morality."
A little wordy, but I like it!
How about we just take that and chop it down to "The great Cornholio"
Yeah, the "pithily" was sarcasm. Hehe...
I'm sure Joe can find plenty of ways to remind people that Ryan has been in Congress for an extended period of time -- "Mr. Ryan, since you became chair of the House Budget Committee....., during the last Congress, you voted for 38 bills aimed at banning abortion...., since you were elected to Congress in whateveryearitwas, you have worked to...."
Give'im hell, Joe!
What's the right-wing lawmaker going to do, leave the stage? precisely. giving that fool a taste of his own medicine is what Vice President Biden should do. When he lies, sound a buzzer. When he proposes something that violates the American way, sound he buzzer. When he overruns, cut his mike. When he is not speaking, cut his mike.
The fact is, little paul ryan never had to live as a real man.
Hey Wisconsinites I know a perfect way that WE all don't have to call Ryan "Congressman" vote him out on his keester in November!
The update to this says the VP Biden can call Ryan whatever he wants. I propose that Biden call Ryan Eddie Munster throughout the debate.
Ryan is trying to look like an outsider in DC. Biden needs to crush that image by mentioning his status as much as possible and in every way possible. Link Ryan and the Republicans to Bush's deficits and don't let him him wriggle out of those votes.
I'm getting a big chuckle out of the accompanying photo to this post. Is he demonstrating the size of his johnson or the breadth of his "math" skills?
That's much too big for a Republican johnson. And way too wide for "math skills" since Ryan obviously believes that 2+2=22.
Will it count against Joe if he calls him "Eddie"??
only if he pats him on the head when he says it
How bizarre. If you've held the post for 7 terms but you're too ashamed to be addressed by that title now, then why are you simultaneously running for an 8th term?
On the other hand, I've never understood calling people by titles they no longer hold. No one says "former Governor" Romney, they say Governor Romney, as if he's still in that job. Same thing people do when they're interviewing "Governor" Palin. But Paul Ryan is a sitting Congressman. If the shoe fits, own it.
How about Mr. (Eddie) Haskell?
This does highlight an important advantage Biden has in this debate compared to Obama in the others -- Ryan has a voting record. Elizabeth Warren used Scott Brown's record to good effect, and I expect Biden will too. Considering how blatantly Ryan lied about it at the convention, I expect (about voucherizing Medicare, defense cuts, opposing Simpson-Bowles, and more) we'll hear quite a bit of "Congressman Ryan, if you don't support that, why did you vote for it?"
I sure hope so! Please dear sweet little baby Jesus.
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From the update: "though Biden is apparently free to call (Ryan) whatever he wants."
Even if VP Biden weren't "free" to call Ryan Congressman I could see Joe saying how he's taking a page from the Romney play book by reversing position in the debate.
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You don't understand Romney's Tax plan? That's ok neither does Romney and his website http://www.mittromney.com is just as confused as you.
From: http://www.mittromney.com/issues/tax
Individual Taxes
America’s individual tax code applies relatively high marginal tax rates on a narrow tax base. Those high rates discourage work and entrepreneurship, as well as savings and investment. With 54 percent of private sector workers employed outside of corporations, individual rates also define the incentives for job-creating businesses. Lower marginal tax rates secure for all Americans the economic gains from tax reform.
From: BelieveInAmerica-PlanForJobsAndEconomicGrowth-Full page 36
INDIVIDUAL TAXES
• Maintain marginal rates at current levels
• Further reduce taxes on savings and investment
• Eliminate the death tax
• Long-term goal: pursue a flatter, fairer, simpler structure
See a problem?
Well there are a few other places where his tax plan flip flops again and again. Still think this guy has a plan? Even his own team doesn't know what to post on his site.
This is the math:
(20% across the board tax cut) - (no detail cuts) - (no detail on deductions eliminated) - ($455 million in cuts from CPB and Big Bird) = -$4.545 billion
Unless you give me number for cuts or what deductions you eliminate I'll "just make up a number" and that number is -$4.545 billion. Read more at http://nomdepen.wordpress.com
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Would be neat if Raddatz asked why Ryan doesn't want to be called Congressman?
Or if Joe asked the same question. Except we know if it were Biden asking it would be much more than a question.
Last time it was Joe, the Old Dog, debating Palin, The Bit ... I mean The "Female Dog".
Joe had to be careful not to look like he was beating up on a female ( I still can't call that female a woman ).
No such concerns this time around.
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Are you freaking kidding me? Cater to a request from a bunch of liars whose idea of debating was to flip flop all over the stage like a dang fish? Request denied.
Such nonsense I've never seen from anyone but some teenager getting ready for a date to the prom: it's all a bunch of 'little touches' (like lying about what your actual job is) that will create an illusion of loveliness and lovability.
Well: Biden should just ASK RYAN WHAT HIS DAY JOB IS. That's all he has to do, while saying, "Answer truthfully now."
The Ayn Rand Letter, Volume IV, Number 2, November-December 1975:
Now I want to give you a brief indication of the kinds of issues that are coming up, on which you might want to know my views.
1. The Presidential election of 1976. I urge you, as emphatically as I can, not to support the candidacy of Ronald Reagan. I urge you not to work for or advocate his nomination, and not to vote for him. My reasons are as follows: Mr. Reagan is not a champion of capitalism, but a conservative in the worst sense of that word—i.e., an advocate of a mixed economy with government controls slanted in favor of business rather than labor (which, philosophically, is as untenable a position as one could choose—see Fred Kinnan in Atlas Shrugged, pp. 541-2). This description applies in various degrees to most Republican politicians, but most of them preserve some respect for the rights of the individual. Mr. Reagan does not: he opposes the right to abortion.
Hmmm . . . so Congressman Ryan is not proud of his tensure as a House of Rep member. Isn't he going to brag about his vote to repeal OBAMACARE 33 times?
All Joe has to do is say Congressman Ryan, like Brown called Elizabeth Warren Professor. It is not inaccurate.
I'm glad I got here after the article update.
Here's a thought. Recall the news circulating yesterday and today about the "ties" between Raddatz and Obama. I would think this very weak link between the two was not just uncovered. So, I propose that the connection was pushed to media and shortly followed with the release of this information. This way, if and when Raddatz does refer to or address CONGRESSMAN Ryan as "Congressman Ryan", the Ryan/Romney campaign can use it as proof that she was not impartial because she "deliberately" breached the memorandum of understanding.
I understand Congressman Ryan also demanded there be no green M&M's in the craft services... Says they make him "uncomfortable"....